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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Matto on June 19, 2015, 09:28:21 PM

Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Matto on June 19, 2015, 09:28:21 PM
I just got an email from the SSPX about modesty. Although it doesn't go into detail it does say that women should not wear pants. I am glad to see that is not too 'rigid' for them. I would expect with the liberalization that they would abandon the old traditional positions that liberals hate like the belief that women should not wear pants.

http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/how-catholics-ought-dress-2203 (http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/how-catholics-ought-dress-2203)

How Catholics ought to dress
Now that the heat of summer is upon us, this is a good opportunity to briefly review the topic of how Catholics should apparel themselves.

Pastor's Corner for Sunday, June 21

Summer is on us and with it, the heat. Which makes us feel the need to discard layers of clothes and be freer with our movements. With this desire though, necessarily comes the obligation to continue dressing modestly, and here are some tips about accomplishing this in our own day and age.

It is good to review the dress code that should be posted at the entrance of churches in accordance with Canon Law (CIC 1262, 2). Though this reflects the Church’s mind for sacred places, it nonetheless also comprises a general rule of thumb for public life.

And while every Catholic has rights (to receive the sacraments), he or she also has duties to fulfill in order to maintain these rights; thus why the Holy See has gone so far (for the preservation of souls) to prescribe: “to remove from Communion and even from Church, improperly dressed women.”[1]—this rule can of course be applied also to men.

Another quick rule of thumb is to dress in a dignified manner that will evoke respect. For in addition to providing an edifying example, our dress also defines who we are in society. Thus the appropriateness of a mother’s or father’s dress (particularly in the privacy of home life) can positively or negatively impact the formation of their children—this important aspect is not only contingent upon the modesty of the clothes worn by the parents, but even by their quality, that is, dressing shabbily versus well within one’s means.

An even further consideration for men and women is to dress properly according to their nature, or respectively, according to their masculinity or femininity. For men, this means they should not wear tight-fitting clothes or in general, go shirtless in public (especially for fathers, even around the home in front of their children).

For the ladies, to dress like a man (such as wearing pants) is improper and contradicts a woman’s God-given femininity. That this is not merely an “old fuddy duddy’s” quibble, should be evident when we realize that the proponents of unisex clothing have also been the same “gender theory” people behind the promotion of sins against nature.

It is interesting to note that the “Lion of Campos”, Bishop de Castro Mayer, once famously remarked in a pastoral letter that he would prefer a woman to wear a mini-skirt rather than pants. For while the mini-skirt was immodest, it was at least feminine, while pants contradicted a woman’s nature (thus the former attacked the senses, while the latter warped the intellect).

Therefore, so-called “woman’s pants” (usually worn out of pleasure or commodity) are not the proper garb of a Catholic (or Marian-like) girl or lady, either in the parish, domestic or social life. However, if the wearing pants by women cannot be completely avoided due to the circuмstances of our time (profession, security, extraordinary activity, etc.), they should at least disappear from family, social and parish life.

Concerning modest dress—and this applies to both men and women—the underlying principle is that it should more cover, rather than expose oneself to the allurement of the public eye. Thus both men and women should dress so as to inspire respect and chaste love, as opposed to the enkindling of lust.

Albeit, finding proper clothes today can be very difficult today, as most fashions are terribly provocative and have been designed to induce impurity. This is especially the case for women’s fashions; however, good women (using a bit of resourcefulness) can still manage to dress with modest attractiveness and charm—and without appearing that they have just stepped off a set of Little House on the Prairie!

A last word regarding the issue of swimming. Unfortunately there is little available in the stores today that is even half-way decent, or modest, though some have attempted to alleviate this deficiency by wearing t-shirts over their swimwear. But even more importantly perhaps are the oft-ignored ecclesiastical admonitions against the dangers of swimming in public places. Thus we are compelled to exhort families to make the effort to find a secluded place to swim amongst themselves—or not at all. Better to forgo the recreational (and optional) pleasure of swimming then to endanger the souls of one’s family (or of others)!

In concluding this brief review on the importance of dressing modestly, here are some pertinent quotes (and one illustrative example)—which far from being ancient, are of recent date, and thus ever new.

Quotes

G.K. Chesterton: “unless we live as we believe, we’ll end up believing as we live.”

Pope Pius XII: “The purity of souls living the supernatural life of grace is not preserved and will never be preserved without combat.” Many women and girls stubbornly persist in "following certain shameless styles like so many sheep." "They would certainly blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feeling they evoke in those who see them."

Padre Pio (+1968) repeatedly refused to absolve women who did not wear a skirt that extended at least 8 inches below the knee, while also insisting that they did not wear slacks.

Our Lady of Fatima:

The sins of the world are too great! The sins which lead most souls to hell are sins of the flesh! Certain fashions are going to be introduced which will offend Our Lord very much. Those who serve God should not follow these fashions. The Church has no fashions; Our Lord is always the same."

Footnote

1 January 12, 1930, S.C.C.


Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Matthew on June 19, 2015, 09:51:54 PM
Quote from: Matto
I just got an email from the SSPX about modesty. Although it doesn't go into detail it does say that women should not wear pants. I am glad to see that is not too 'rigid' for them. I would expect with the liberalization that they would abandon the old traditional positions that liberals hate like the belief that women should not wear pants.


To paraphrase a famous quote, "Rome wasn't destroyed in a day."

Remember also that part(s) of the neo-SSPX will sometimes do what it can to "stem the tide" and even take a few steps back, in order to keep the largest number of people long-term. The pace of "modernization" will vary by district, by location, and by priest. Even the manner of modernization -- what will be updated and when -- will also vary.

So this doesn't surprise me at all.

If you expect your local SSPX to unveil a Novus Ordo parish next Sunday, you're deceiving yourself. They'd never do that. It would be stupid not only on a supernatural level, but even on a human/business level. They'd instantly lose their entire congregation. The most pessimistic among those in the Resistance wouldn't expect them to do this.

A group as large as the SSPX is a very complex animal. You have good priests, bad priests, and a lot in between.  You have priests desperately trying to hold on to both (the Faith, the SSPX) as well as those fervently marching towards Modernism (Fr. Pfluger advising the European priest meeting that it's "prudent" to have only 4 or 5 children).
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Matto on June 19, 2015, 10:28:02 PM
Quote from: Matthew

To paraphrase a famous quote, "Rome wasn't destroyed in a day."

Yes this is true. But in my experience the first two things that liberals want to do away with is the belief that women should not wear pants and the belief that women should cover their heads in Church. Like Father Chazal said in a sermon I listened to in europe at SSPX Masses you can tell right away that liberalism is flourishing because so many of the women wear pants to Mass and do not cover their heads.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: stgobnait on June 20, 2015, 03:01:28 AM
I agree with Fr Chazal, in my chapel it is astonishing the amount of matronly women wearing trousers,  who when I first came to sspx as a 'young mother' frowned at my modern dress code, once things were explained to me, I happily conformed to traditional  dress , now these ladies wear trousers and say they feel the cold! veils for a lot of the younger women, are 'old hat# so to speak!
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on June 20, 2015, 08:57:35 AM

http://youtu.be/OkzZwpw6Zjk
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Graham on June 20, 2015, 09:42:47 AM
I think this is an old article by Fr. Peter Scott. Good for them for circulating it again. I particularly like the paragraph on swimming.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Jaynek on June 20, 2015, 12:43:44 PM
Thanks for posting such a great article in the OP.  I found this part especially thought-provoking:

Quote

It is interesting to note that the “Lion of Campos”, Bishop de Castro Mayer, once famously remarked in a pastoral letter that he would prefer a woman to wear a mini-skirt rather than pants. For while the mini-skirt was immodest, it was at least feminine, while pants contradicted a woman’s nature (thus the former attacked the senses, while the latter warped the intellect).
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Matthew on June 20, 2015, 12:51:52 PM
Quote from: Jaynek
Thanks for posting such a great article in the OP.  I found this part especially thought-provoking:

Quote

It is interesting to note that the “Lion of Campos”, Bishop de Castro Mayer, once famously remarked in a pastoral letter that he would prefer a woman to wear a mini-skirt rather than pants. For while the mini-skirt was immodest, it was at least feminine, while pants contradicted a woman’s nature (thus the former attacked the senses, while the latter warped the intellect).


I've seen that quote many times, and if you think about it, it's true.

One aspect I just realized -- that the miniskirt and pants are BOTH immodest and draw attention to things that shouldn't be emphasized.

Pants show every curve, and their very design focuses attention on the groin.

Have you seen the latest trend -- jeans with sparkly rhinestones on the back pockets? That's great -- draw attention to the woman's butt cheeks. Don't worry, men aren't that visually stimulated or quickly aroused. Oh, wait a minute -- they are.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Marlelar on June 20, 2015, 01:20:23 PM
At our chapel the only women I have EVER seen without a veil and wearing pants are the odd NO'ers who stumble in unaware that they are not at any ordinary new order church.  They really stand out with their spandex leggings, tight tank tops and flip-flops!
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: MaterDominici on June 20, 2015, 01:24:25 PM
Quote from: Marlelar
At our chapel the only women I have EVER seen without a veil and wearing pants are the odd NO'ers who stumble in unaware that they are not at any ordinary new order church.  They really stand out with their spandex leggings, tight tank tops and flip-flops!


Same here except I'll add the people who come in off the street looking for a free restroom along their Sunday morning jogging route.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: clare on June 20, 2015, 02:57:12 PM
Quote from: Matthew
One aspect I just realized -- that the miniskirt and pants are BOTH immodest and draw attention to things that shouldn't be emphasized.

That's why long tunic tops are a good idea.
Quote
Pants show every curve, and their very design focuses attention on the groin.

That second aspect means that men shouldn't wear trousers either, or should wear some kind of tunic as well! Remember, men never used to wear trousers.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: saintalice on June 20, 2015, 03:19:06 PM
Sorry to be so crass but men are far more "boob" oriented than"crotch" oriented.  Pure FACT.  Therefore the whole "ban on pants" argument is far less convincing than the ban on ladies wearing tight shirts/tops.  
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Matthew on June 20, 2015, 03:42:17 PM
Quote from: saintalice
Sorry to be so crass but men are far more "boob" oriented than"crotch" oriented.  Pure FACT.  Therefore the whole "ban on pants" argument is far less convincing than the ban on ladies wearing tight shirts/tops.  


You're right; you know more about the inner workings of men than I do -- even though I'm a man.

Seriously, though, I would answer that there are slight differences in what turns each man on -- but what they all have in common is that it's something physical -- some part of a woman's body. That's how men are wired. That is why it is important for women's clothing to to conceal, rather than reveal.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: saintalice on June 20, 2015, 04:02:37 PM
Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: saintalice
Sorry to be so crass but men are far more "boob" oriented than"crotch" oriented.  Pure FACT.  Therefore the whole "ban on pants" argument is far less convincing than the ban on ladies wearing tight shirts/tops.  


You're right; you know more about the inner workings of men than I do -- even though I'm a man.

Seriously, though, I would answer that there are slight differences in what turns each man on -- but what they all have in common is that it's something physical -- some part of a woman's body. That's how men are wired. That is why it is important for women's clothing to to conceal, rather than reveal.

Yes.  A woman does know the "inner workings of a man" better than men.  You betcha!  It is the reason men are so easily manipulated by women.  

I agree, with you and others, however that women should dress modestly.  I am saddened at the thought of how many times I was an "occasion of sin" for men some 10-15 years ago, for which I have repented, nevertheless the "curse of memory" still haunts me.  

I'm just not convinced that pants are immodest in as much as they are masculine.  I learned that long ago when I was in theatre.  If we were rehearsing for a "classic" play (Shakespeare, Ibsen, Chekhov, etc.) and we did not have a "rehearsal skirt" we were sent home.   The reason being that "in a skirt you will sit differently, you will walk differently, you will behave differently than if you are wearing pants."  In other words, you will "act" (pun intended) like a "Lady", not like a tomboy.  I wear skirts to this day because of what I learned in theatre.  
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Nadir on June 20, 2015, 05:21:25 PM
Quote from: saintalice

Yes.  A woman does know the "inner workings of a man" better than men.  You betcha!  It is the reason men are so easily manipulated by women.    


The majority of young women have no idea how a man's mind works so differently from a woman's. That is one reason why so many otherwise nice young ladies dress as they do. They dress to follow fashion and to turn a man's head, i.e. to to get attention for themselves, but they do not realise just what is going in the man's head. The book "Dressing with Dignity" goes into this.

That is interesting about the policy in the theatre, saintalice.

Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: MrsZ on June 24, 2015, 06:10:53 PM
I think it's a nice instinct to want to assume young women in their teens and twenties just don't know what they're wearing or how it affects men.  But iId on't believe it's true.  A child, maybe ... and I know children are now wearing whatever is fashionable to ape their older sisters or celebrities.  Some children who've been corrupted by those same celebs / movies / tv / music ... probably unfortunately know as well.  

But for women in adolescence and beyond know that they are emphasizing their bodies in a way that causes attention.   It's hardwired into to us to seek to get attention-approval from a man for our appearance.  If we are raised to believe that immodest dressing is the most powerful way to do that, we do that.

I don't think women need to know the specific details of what this physically or mentally or spiritually does to a man to know that it's something they are getting an enormous payoff in regard to their own pride and vanity.  

And for SaintAlice ...my unfortunate experience has been that all men look at women's backsides.  All of the them, all the time.  They just have learned to not be obvious about it.  And if a woman is walking somewhere in tight pants and  people walking  or standing behind her , rest assured that everyone, men and women alike, are looking at her backside.  

And it's not just attractive young women either.  FAt or thin, young or old ... wearing pants ... everyone's backsides are on display.  It's just that most women could care less about men's backsides. At the N.O. parish we attend, rows and rows of women, young and old alike wearing pants ... big backsides, small backsides, all with pockets, or pockets with designs or things on them to DRAW ATTENTION to their backsides!

It's like we're all baboons anymore....sending out the mating call.

Gross.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on June 24, 2015, 08:28:12 PM
Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey

http://youtu.be/OkzZwpw6Zjk



Yes, Dressing with Dignity is a good book.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on June 24, 2015, 08:36:52 PM
This is from Our Lady of the Rosary Library.  

IF YOU ASK ME ABOUT...
Women's Pantsuits
Sewell Hall
Understand, no one has asked me about pant-suits.  No one except a preacher or two wondering how we should approach the subject.  And perhaps a parent or two wondering whether to permit their daughters to wear them.  But no one who was wearing them, or contemplating wearing them, has ever asked me about them.

It's not that I want to be asked.  I just wonder if older women are being asked by younger women about them.  I wonder if mothers are being asked about them.  I wonder if women who begin wearing them even ask themselves about them – whether they are right or wrong, good or bad.  It seems to me that most women these days simply follow blindly wherever fashion leads.  But Christian women, realizing that fashion is in the hands of worldly people, need to question every innovation fashion offers.

But if anyone did ask me, I suppose my answer would vary according to the person asking.  In giving different answers to different types of people, I would be in good company.  Jesus practiced that.

Different Answers
If a lady wearing one of the short, short miniskirt fashions should ask me about pant-suits, I would probably say, "Yes, yes."  If it is a choice between pantsuits and mini-skirts, the former are much to be preferred.  It is my conviction, based on abundant evidence, that the short skirts are the most immodest and morally degrading fashion ever to be generally accepted in this country.  I blush to think that Christian women have allowed themselves to be bamboozled into wearing a garment so clearly inspired by the devil.

If I should be asked about pant-suits by the kind of person who will abstain from those things that can be proved to be immoral and immodest within themselves, I would probable make no effort to sustain a position.  I cannot charge that they are conducive to lustful thinking or immodest in that way.  The other objections that I would raise would probably have little or no effect on such a person.  So why waste time and effort?

But if my querist is one who is very conscientious about being the best possible Christian; one who wants to abstain from every appearance of evil; one who wants to maintain a perfectly wholesome influence regardless of her fashion image; then I have somewhat to say.  Such a woman will understand the following objections:

Objections
They reflect the Unisex Movement.  Under the heading, "The Pantsuit:  Hemline Controversy" the 1970 Compton Encyclopedia Yearbook states on page 249:  "Paris couturier Jacques Esterel states that 'identification of the sexes in terms of clothes will become a thing of the past.'  He designed identical tunic and pants outfits for father, mother, and child."  The next sentence calls these "unisex clothes."  Hand in hand with this effort of the unisex movement to break down distinctions in appearance between the sexes is its effort to elevate ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity to respectability.  Both goals are an abomination in the sight of God.  God's purpose that men and women dress distinctly is clearly reflected in both the Old and New Testaments (Deut. 22:5; 1 Cor. 11:1-16).  The latter passage also requires distinctive hair lengths for the sexes.  When men begin wearing long hair and ruffles as women shorten their hair and put on pants, it is obvious that Satan is having his way.  It is not God's plan.  It is a movement in the wrong direction.
They reflect the influence of the Women's Liberation Movement.  This movement objects to the distinction between masculine and feminine spheres.  It rejects the God assigned responsibility of women to "bear children, guide the house" (1 Tim, 5:14):  "to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands" (Titus 2:5).  It maintains that whatever a man may do, a women may do.  Therefore, she has both the reason and the right to dress like a man.  This is but an extension of the movement that earlier put women in slacks, with a cigarette in one hand, a cocktail in the other, and curses and obscenities on the lips.  Neither men nor women have a right to practice such things.  It is a movement to enslavement rather than liberation.  It is a movement in rebellion against God.  Christian women will want to avoid any appearance of sympathy with it.
They encourage immodest posture and habits.  It seems to this writer that the wearing of slacks, jeans, and other masculine types of apparel tends to encourage a coarser, more boisterous, less feminine disposition and bearing.  This, we admit, is a rather subjective opinion, but it is shared by many others of our acquaintance.
Beware of the Devil's Craftiness
The devil's craftiness is amazing indeed.  He shifts from one position to another.  Just when we get our guns aimed at dancing because of its intimate embrace, he comes up with dances that involve no physical contact, but only indecent movements.  Just as we apply the Sword of the Spirit to the indecent exposure of mini fashions, he introduces cover-up fashions objectionable on other grounds.  No wonder many are deceived!

Christian women (and men as well), if they would remain free of the devil's devices, must learn to hold off from new fads until they can determine whether the devil is behind them – and if he is, what he is up to.  The person who just must be like the world, just must be in style, just must keep up with what is IN – that person is just the kind the devil finds easy prey.

Padre Pio on Women's Dress
from Prophet of the People,
by Dorothy M. Gaudiose, pp. 191-2
Women received especially rough treatment from Padre Pio because of current fashions.  He had always been a merciless enemy of feminine vanity.  "Vanity," he said, "is the son of pride, and is even more malignant than its mother.  Have you ever seen a field of ripe corn?  Some ears are tall; others are bent to the ground.  Try taking the tallest, the proudest ones, and you will see that they are empty; but if you take the smallest, the humblest ones, they are laden with seeds.  From this you can see that vanity is empty."

Padre Pio wouldn't tolerate low-necked dresses or short, tight skirts, and he forbade his spiritual daughters to wear transparent stockings.  Each year his severity increased.  He stubbornly dismissed them from his confessional, even before they set foot inside, if he judged them to be improperly dressed.  On some mornings he drove away one after another, until he ended up hearing very few confessions.

His brothers observed these drastic purges with a certain uneasiness and decided to fasten a sign on the church door:  "By Padre Pio's explicit wish, women must enter his confessional wearing skirts at least eight inches below the knees.  It is forbidden to borrow longer dresses in church and to wear them for the confessional."

The last warning was not without effect.  There was a furtive exchange of skirts, blouses, and raincoats, that took place at the last moment in the half-lit church to remedy any failings.

The women made their adjustments, but perhaps not exactly enough.  Padre Pio continued to send some away before giving them a chance to confess.  He would glower at them and grumble, "Go and get dressed."  And sometimes he added, "Clowns!"  He spared no one...  Persons he saw for the first time, or his long-time spiritual daughters.  Often the skirts were decidedly many inches below the knees, but not sufficiently long for his moral severity.

As the years began to weigh on Padre Pio, his daily hours in the confessional were limited to four, equally divided between men and women.  In addition to being dressed properly, they had to know the Italian language, even though he could somehow understand people speaking another language.  But he knew Italian, Latin, and very little French, consistently refusing to hear confessions except in Italian or Latin.

Sometimes when Padre Pio refused to absolve his penitents and closed the small confessional door in their faces, the people would reproach him asking why he acted this way.  "Don't you know," he asked, "what pain it costs me to shut the door on anyone?  The Lord has forced me to do so.  I do not call anyone, nor do I refuse anyone either.  There is someone else who calls and refuses them.  I am His useless tool."

Even the men had rules to follow.  They were not permitted to enter the church with three-quarter length sleeves.  Boys as well as men had to wear long trousers at church, if they didn't want to be shown out of church, that is.  But women in short skirts were his prime targets.  Padre Pio's citadel was perhaps the only place in the world where the fashions of the 1930s still ruled in the 1960s.

(Do you recall what Our Lady of Fatima said about "certain fashions?")

Take the Modesty Pledge!
www.olrl.org/virtues/
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Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on June 24, 2015, 09:13:14 PM
Pledge To Bring Christian Women
Back To Decency In Dress

Purpose:  It is no accident that the terrible immoral trend in our nation and the world at large should coincide with shameless fashions in dress.  The women of any nation help determine its morals.  So it is to the (professing) Christian women that this pledge is directed.  Most Christian women cannot be discerned from the worldly unbelievers in their style of dress.

"In like manner I wish women to be decently dressed, adorning themselves with modesty and dignity." (1 Tim. 2:9) A true Christian, as St. Paul admonishes, will not indulge in any freedom if he causes his brother to sin. Well might we say, "If any unseemly dress fashions lead men to sin, I will not dress so."



THE PLEDGE

Realizing that you simply cannot promote modesty without standards, I pledge to do my part in restoring a true Christian example by adopting the following dress code:

I pledge to wear dress or skirts that extend well below the knees in any posture. My dresses will not be sleeveless or have low necklines.
I pledge not to wear trousers, slacks, or shorts as this apparel is not pleasing to God: "A woman shall not be clothed with man's apparel neither shall a man use woman's apparel: for he that doeth these things is abominable before God." (Deut. 22:5)
I will keep this pledge with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ regardless of the spirit of the times.
Signed______________________________
www.olrl.org/virtues/
Home
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: shin on June 24, 2015, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
Pledge To Bring Christian Women
Back To Decency In Dress

Purpose:  It is no accident that the terrible immoral trend in our nation and the world at large should coincide with shameless fashions in dress.  The women of any nation help determine its morals.  So it is to the (professing) Christian women that this pledge is directed.  Most Christian women cannot be discerned from the worldly unbelievers in their style of dress.

"In like manner I wish women to be decently dressed, adorning themselves with modesty and dignity." (1 Tim. 2:9) A true Christian, as St. Paul admonishes, will not indulge in any freedom if he causes his brother to sin. Well might we say, "If any unseemly dress fashions lead men to sin, I will not dress so."



THE PLEDGE

Realizing that you simply cannot promote modesty without standards, I pledge to do my part in restoring a true Christian example by adopting the following dress code:

I pledge to wear dress or skirts that extend well below the knees in any posture. My dresses will not be sleeveless or have low necklines.
I pledge not to wear trousers, slacks, or shorts as this apparel is not pleasing to God: "A woman shall not be clothed with man's apparel neither shall a man use woman's apparel: for he that doeth these things is abominable before God." (Deut. 22:5)
I will keep this pledge with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ regardless of the spirit of the times.
Signed______________________________
www.olrl.org/virtues/
Home


This is really splendid!
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: clare on June 25, 2015, 01:28:10 AM
Quote
Objections
They reflect the Unisex Movement. Under the heading, "The Pantsuit: Hemline Controversy" the 1970 Compton Encyclopedia Yearbook states on page 249: "Paris couturier Jacques Esterel states that 'identification of the sexes in terms of clothes will become a thing of the past.'...

Thing is, while there are undoubtedly women who dress masculinely and men who dress femininely, there is more to clothing than one item, in this case trousers. Is a woman with a long floral blouse, and feminine shoes, suddenly dressing like a man if she also happens to be wearing trousers which are clearly feminine in design? And is a man who also happens to be wearing the same combination I just described, dressed appropriately for a man simply because he has trousers on? The whole ensemble needs to be taken into account.

Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Meg on June 25, 2015, 11:57:19 AM
Quote from: MrsZ


And it's not just attractive young women either.  FAt or thin, young or old ... wearing pants ... everyone's backsides are on display.  It's just that most women could care less about men's backsides. At the N.O. parish we attend, rows and rows of women, young and old alike wearing pants ... big backsides, small backsides, all with pockets, or pockets with designs or things on them to DRAW ATTENTION to their backsides!

It's like we're all baboons anymore....sending out the mating call.

Gross.


You are SO right. I attend the NO, for the most part, and one of the more unpleasant aspects of is that many women and some men wear tight-fitting pants to Mass. I can't help but notice when they are in front of me at Mass. Yuck!

You're right about us (well, non-trads, that is) being all baboons - sending out the mating call. It's awful.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Alexandria on June 25, 2015, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: MrsZ
I think it's a nice instinct to want to assume young women in their teens and twenties just don't know what they're wearing or how it affects men.  But iId on't believe it's true.  A child, maybe ... and I know children are now wearing whatever is fashionable to ape their older sisters or celebrities.  Some children who've been corrupted by those same celebs / movies / tv / music ... probably unfortunately know as well.  

But for women in adolescence and beyond know that they are emphasizing their bodies in a way that causes attention.   It's hardwired into to us to seek to get attention-approval from a man for our appearance.  If we are raised to believe that immodest dressing is the most powerful way to do that, we do that.

I don't think women need to know the specific details of what this physically or mentally or spiritually does to a man to know that it's something they are getting an enormous payoff in regard to their own pride and vanity.  

And for SaintAlice ...my unfortunate experience has been that all men look at women's backsides.  All of the them, all the time.  They just have learned to not be obvious about it.  And if a woman is walking somewhere in tight pants and  people walking  or standing behind her , rest assured that everyone, men and women alike, are looking at her backside.  

And it's not just attractive young women either.  FAt or thin, young or old ... wearing pants ... everyone's backsides are on display.  It's just that most women could care less about men's backsides. At the N.O. parish we attend, rows and rows of women, young and old alike wearing pants ... big backsides, small backsides, all with pockets, or pockets with designs or things on them to DRAW ATTENTION to their backsides!

It's like we're all baboons anymore....sending out the mating call.

Gross.


Wonderful post, Mrs. Z, and I couldn't agree more.  Women young and old need to wake up.  No more shame left in them.  The grossest are the young ladies who are pregnant with skin tight tops over their stomach.  Where is the dignity of motherhood in that vulgar display?
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Alexandria on June 25, 2015, 01:01:56 PM
Quote from: Marlelar
At our chapel the only women I have EVER seen without a veil and wearing pants are the odd NO'ers who stumble in unaware that they are not at any ordinary new order church.  They really stand out with their spandex leggings, tight tank tops and flip-flops!


That reminds me of one couple we saw at the SSPX chapel one Sunday about ten years ago.   Where they came from I do not know, but they, as you wrote, apparently stumbled in unaware that the church was not your typical anything goes parish in novus ordo-ville.    The both of them were dressed as if they were about to go fishing.  She had pants on and nothing on her head.  What got me is that they both went up to Holy Communion.  Nothing wrong with that and maybe it's just me, but had it been me, I would have been mortified at the way I was dressed and not having my head covered and would not have called further attention to myself by traipsing up the aisle to receive.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Alexandria on June 25, 2015, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: Alexandria
Quote from: Marlelar
At our chapel the only women I have EVER seen without a veil and wearing pants are the odd NO'ers who stumble in unaware that they are not at any ordinary new order church.  They really stand out with their spandex leggings, tight tank tops and flip-flops!


That reminds me of one couple we saw at the SSPX chapel one Sunday about ten years ago.   Where they came from I do not know, but they, as you wrote, apparently stumbled in unaware that the church was not your typical anything goes parish in novus ordo-ville.    The both of them were dressed as if they were about to go fishing.  She had pants on and nothing on her head.  What got me is that they both went up to Holy Communion.  Nothing wrong with that and maybe it's just me, but had it been me, I would have been mortified at the way I was dressed and not having my head covered and would not have called further attention to myself by traipsing up the aisle to receive.


Just wanted to add to this post that I think that goes along with an absence of any sense of shame in either men or women anymore.  Everyone has "rights" these days.  Everyone.   :rolleyes:
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: jen51 on June 25, 2015, 01:10:17 PM
Quote from: Alexandria
 The grossest are the young ladies who are pregnant with skin tight tops over their stomach.  Where is the dignity of motherhood in that vulgar display?


This is the trend among pregnant mothers. It's an attention seeking thing. Look at me, look at me, I'm pregnant! I find it very off-putting. Immodest, too.

As to women in pants, especially jeans, even putting modesty aside.... they just don't look good. Jeans and most pants are not flattering on women- it doesn't matter what kind of woman is wearing them. Also, I find pants incredibly uncomfortable. I quit wearing them a couple years ago for the most part, but wear them from time to time while doing rigorous outdoor tasks. A couple weeks ago I wore pants to do something outside and ended up coming back in to change into a skirt, not caring if it got ripped, torn, or stained because I found the pants so incredibly uncomfortable!
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Ladislaus on June 25, 2015, 01:14:42 PM
Quote from: MrsZ
It's just that most women could care less about men's backsides.


And for some reason the women invariably wear these tight-fitting pants with thinner material whereas men tend to wear thicker materials that don't accentuate the rear end (although there are some exceptions).

Whether women "care" about it or not, it's also inappropriate for men to wear tight pants.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on June 25, 2015, 01:36:35 PM
Quote from: shin
Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
Pledge To Bring Christian Women
Back To Decency In Dress

Purpose:  It is no accident that the terrible immoral trend in our nation and the world at large should coincide with shameless fashions in dress.  The women of any nation help determine its morals.  So it is to the (professing) Christian women that this pledge is directed.  Most Christian women cannot be discerned from the worldly unbelievers in their style of dress.

"In like manner I wish women to be decently dressed, adorning themselves with modesty and dignity." (1 Tim. 2:9) A true Christian, as St. Paul admonishes, will not indulge in any freedom if he causes his brother to sin. Well might we say, "If any unseemly dress fashions lead men to sin, I will not dress so."



THE PLEDGE

Realizing that you simply cannot promote modesty without standards, I pledge to do my part in restoring a true Christian example by adopting the following dress code:

I pledge to wear dress or skirts that extend well below the knees in any posture. My dresses will not be sleeveless or have low necklines.
I pledge not to wear trousers, slacks, or shorts as this apparel is not pleasing to God: "A woman shall not be clothed with man's apparel neither shall a man use woman's apparel: for he that doeth these things is abominable before God." (Deut. 22:5)
I will keep this pledge with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ regardless of the spirit of the times.
Signed______________________________
www.olrl.org/virtues/
Home


This is really splendid!


This pledge is from Our Lady of the Rosary Library.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: tdrev123 on June 25, 2015, 02:44:11 PM
The majority of traditional organizations have been cowardly as how they approach modesty, they enforce the dress code but only at mass.  They will mention it in sermons or postings but they never actually talk about how a woman or man is supposed to dress outside of mass!  And thats because they know it will cause trouble...but it doesn't matter church teaching is church teaching.  

If a priest or organization wrote an article or sermon about the actual church teaching of how we are supposed to dress outside of mass it would be far to catholic of a thing to do.
In the 1950s and before people started to become a sunday only Catholic and that is essentially what most people are today that go to SSPX or sede churches.  

I would say that the churches I have been to, more than half of the women wear pants regularly outside of mass...and the priests know this and they are silent as a cat.  

Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Alexandria on June 25, 2015, 02:57:04 PM
Quote from: tdrev123
The majority of traditional organizations have been cowardly as how they approach modesty, they enforce the dress code but only at mass.  They will mention it in sermons or postings but they never actually talk about how a woman or man is supposed to dress outside of mass!  And thats because they know it will cause trouble...but it doesn't matter church teaching is church teaching.  

If a priest or organization wrote an article or sermon about the actual church teaching of how we are supposed to dress outside of mass it would be far to catholic of a thing to do.
In the 1950s and before people started to become a sunday only Catholic and that is essentially what most people are today that go to SSPX or sede churches.  

I would say that the churches I have been to, more than half of the women wear pants regularly outside of mass...and the priests know this and they are silent as a cat.  



Agree with you as well.  Too much compromise with the world in most traditional chapels, and everyone has a good rationalization for whatever compromise.  
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: St Gertrude on June 25, 2015, 05:18:25 PM
Once at our chapel, a woman went up to receive.   Her head was not covered and her blouse was, um, let's just say that it revealed far too much.  When she knelt down to receive, the priest leaned over and said "When you come properly attired, you can receive."  I thought--good for him!  Many, many years ago I made the mistake of going to our local NO church (we had no SSPX here then) and a man of about 50 who was the head of the parish council took up the collection.  He was wearing Bermuda shorts, flip-flops and a t-shirt with a beer ad on it.  No, I am not making this up! :facepalm:
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: tdrev123 on June 25, 2015, 06:17:42 PM
Quote from: St Gertrude
Once at our chapel, a woman went up to receive.   Her head was not covered and her blouse was, um, let's just say that it revealed far too much.  When she knelt down to receive, the priest leaned over and said "When you come properly attired, you can receive."  I thought--good for him!  Many, many years ago I made the mistake of going to our local NO church (we had no SSPX here then) and a man of about 50 who was the head of the parish council took up the collection.  He was wearing Bermuda shorts, flip-flops and a t-shirt with a beer ad on it.  No, I am not making this up! :facepalm:


That anecdote of the lady is almost exactly my point, but not the one you were thinking of.  

The priest denied communion to an immodestly dressed woman, but I highly doubt he talked to her about how women are supposed to dress at all times, not just for communion.  For many priests it seems like it is only about the 'show' of modesty at mass, not actually instructing how people are supposed to dress outside of mass, because that is not part of the 'show'.  
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Matthew on June 26, 2015, 12:58:43 AM
Quote from: MrsZ

And it's not just attractive young women either.  FAt or thin, young or old ... wearing pants ... everyone's backsides are on display.  It's just that most women could care less about men's backsides. At the N.O. parish we attend, rows and rows of women, young and old alike wearing pants ... big backsides, small backsides, all with pockets, or pockets with designs or things on them to DRAW ATTENTION to their backsides!

It's like we're all baboons anymore....sending out the mating call.


I don't remember if I posted this, or just intended to post it:

I was going to comment on the current fashion in women's jeans to have sequins, rhinestones, etc. on the 2 back pockets -- basically drawing attention to her butt.

It's like T-shirts with writing across the chest -- worn by a woman. So now we're supposed to look there, so we can read the message? A bit sneaky, if you ask me. Natural curiosity to read a message is not the same as intending a lecherous or immodest look -- but because of such T-shirts, some guys are tricked into looking, as it were.
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Marlelar on June 26, 2015, 01:25:20 AM
Quote from: tdrev123


I would say that the churches I have been to, more than half of the women wear pants regularly outside of mass...and the priests know this and they are silent as a cat.  



I wonder how the priests know what a woman wears outside of Mass?  Are they stalkers?
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: St Gertrude on June 27, 2015, 08:08:47 PM
And even though I am an old woman, I am still conscious of how people look.  It is not just the ladies who are immodest.  I have seen some guys (not trads, thank goodness) just guys in the general population who wear jeans so low and so tight that they leave very little to the imagination.  If I had a son who dressed like that, I would be mortified.  The worst thing of all (perhaps it just a fad here in the western US) is guys who wear patterned boxer shorts and then pull their trousers down so about six inches of shorts are showing.  When I was a young woman (a loooong time ago, granted) we were embarrassed to death if our slip showed an inch below our skirt hemline, etc.  And back then, guys were not allowed to dress immodestly, either.  But after yesterday's Supreme Court ruling, I guess nothing would surprise me.  It's like we have tossed the rule book out the window. :pray:
Title: How Catholics ought to dress (email from SSPX)
Post by: Miseremini on June 28, 2015, 04:07:41 PM
Quote from: St Gertrude
And even though I am an old woman, I am still conscious of how people look.  It is not just the ladies who are immodest.  I have seen some guys (not trads, thank goodness) just guys in the general population who wear jeans so low and so tight that they leave very little to the imagination.  If I had a son who dressed like that, I would be mortified.  The worst thing of all (perhaps it just a fad here in the western US) is guys who wear patterned boxer shorts and then pull their trousers down so about six inches of shorts are showing.  When I was a young woman (a loooong time ago, granted) we were embarrassed to death if our slip showed an inch below our skirt hemline, etc.  And back then, guys were not allowed to dress immodestly, either.  But after yesterday's Supreme Court ruling, I guess nothing would surprise me.  It's like we have tossed the rule book out the window. :pray:


I too remember the time you are speaking about.  Guys don't realize how immodest they can appear.  I've seen trads sitting down for coffee after Mass with legs splayed and there is nothing left to the immagination.  Even priests sit this way but thankfully their cassock covers all.

Men.....watch your posture when sitting.

 :geezer: