Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?  (Read 8819 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Aleah

  • Supporter
  • ***
  • Posts: 997
  • Reputation: +528/-230
  • Gender: Female
Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2018, 12:31:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • http://sspx.org/en/content/29002

    The validity of SSPX Marriages
    From now on, just as we no longer have to invoke an extraordinary jurisdiction to hear confessions validly, we no longer have to invoke the state of necessity to validly marry couples, unless the bishop opposes the new provisions and refuses the delegation requested by the pope.
    This does not mean that the state of grave necessity has come to an end, but only that the authorities of the Church no longer refuse to grant Tradition some means of development. The pre-conciliar Mass was recognized in 2007 as never having been abrogated. The unjust excommunications of the bishops of the Society were lifted in 2009. The non-recognition of the valid ministry of SSPX priests in the sacrament of penance came to an end in 2015. The alleged irregularity of the Society priest, the authorized witness to the sacrament of marriage, has now been lifted, for the good of the spouses. 
    However, just as the sacrament of penance was not invalidly conferred by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X before 2015, neither were the marriages celebrated without the official delegation of the local bishop or parish pastor.
    Indeed, Church law states that in order to be valid, a marriage must be celebrated before the parish priest or his delegate, and in the presence of at least two witnesses (1917 Code, canon 1094; 1983 Code, canon 1108). But the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are not parish priests. That is why some try to pretend that, without a delegation, a priest of this society cannot receive marriage vows. Such a marriage would be invalid because of its lack of canonical form.
    But the same Church law also provides for the following extraordinary situation (1917 Code, canon 1098; 1983 Code, canon 1116): “If a person competent to assist according to the norm of law cannot be present or approached without grave inconvenience.” If this situation is likely to last at least one month, then the Church declares valid a marriage celebrated before only the witnesses. If a non-delegated priest can be present, he must be called upon to receive the vows. This legislation is a simple application of the fundamental principles of Canon law: The supreme law is the salvation of souls, and The sacraments are for men who are well-disposed.
    And if by chance there still remains any doubt as to this extraordinary situation, we answer that in cases of doubt, the Church gives supplied jurisdiction (1917 Code, canon 209; 1983 Code, canon 144). So all doubt is removed, and the marriages celebrated in the Society of St. Pius X, even without a delegation, were most certainly valid, because of the state of necessity.
    The State of Necessity Remains
    This state of grave necessity in the Church has not disappeared. This is not to deny the terrible reality.
    I am He who is- you are she who is not.

    Offline Aleah

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 997
    • Reputation: +528/-230
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #46 on: March 26, 2018, 12:33:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The new arrangements that make it possible to receive a delegation from the Ordinary do not mean that it is the modern priests who will prepare, organize, or celebrate the marriages of our faithful, obviously. The priests of Tradition cannot entrust the faithful who come to them to prepare holily for marriage to those who profess false principles or could endanger the faith of the future spouses by imparting to them an erroneous conception of Christian marriage. Pope Francis simply wishes the Ordinaries to give delegation to SSPX priests. His approach is essentially legal. As Fr. Cédric Burgun, vice-dean of the Faculty of Canon Law in Paris, declared: “The Pope is not settling the doctrinal debate. He is removing ambiguities on the legal issue, and making valid and licit the marriages that will be celebrated under the conditions decreed by Rome.” (RCF, April 5, 2017)
    The implementation of these provisions will be delicate, especially if it is a diocesan priest who comes to receive the vows. But it seems that it will be easy to explain that the fiancés would be uncomfortable with making their marriage vows before a priest they do not know, and will probably never see again. Many want a priest they know and respect, sometimes even a relative, to celebrate their engagement and wedding. The Roman docuмent’s “insofar as possible” seems broad and vague enough to convince the local bishop of the practical and concrete difficulties its application presents.
    I am He who is- you are she who is not.


    Offline Fanny

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 571
    • Reputation: +248/-411
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #47 on: March 26, 2018, 01:09:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • And here I thought the SSPX was canonically established as a missionary order.

    Missionaries do not need approval of anyone to administer any sacrament.

    Furthermore, priests do not administer the sacrament of matrimony.  He does not even need to witness for the couple to have a valid, legitimate, catholic marriage.  He is there ONLY as a witness and to bless the marriage (which can be done afterwards).

    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2418
    • Reputation: +1584/-94
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #48 on: March 26, 2018, 03:58:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/3807-sspx-and-the-novus-ordo-a-new-spirit-of-cooperation

    The Remnant has picked up the story, so feel free to add to their comments.

    REMNANT COMMENT: This story broke on several websites that cited it as proof the SSPX no longer believes there is a state of emergency in the Church. While this attitude fails to take into account the complexities of the situation as well as a growing SSPX annulment problem, this development represents a rather dramatic change in attitude that may indeed signal a gradual moving away from the state of urgency/supplied jurisdiction argument.  Our sources tell us the SSPX is now working with as many as ten bishops who either grant them delegations or supply them with diocesan priests to conduct their marriages. We leave it to our readers to decide for themselves if this newfound cooperation with the Novus Ordo is cause for concern or celebration. 


    Remnant Moderator .  • 2 hours ago
    "At the time of this posting we did not have confirmation as to where the mass was celebrated. It has since been confirmed by the groom, who informed us that the SSPX priest did in fact offer the traditional Latin Mass at the Novus Ordo church, and we have since added that detail. Far from trying to hide this fact, it offers further indication of a cooperation between the Society in the mainstream church which heretofore was unheard of. This is not to suggest that said cooperation is intrinsically evil in an of itself, of course -- but newsworthy? Indeed! If nothing else, here we have a case of a Novus priest allowing a SSPX priest to come into his church and offer the TLM--something which a few years ago would have been absolutely unthinkable from all sides."



    Offline Fanny

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 571
    • Reputation: +248/-411
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #49 on: March 26, 2018, 05:24:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/3807-sspx-and-the-novus-ordo-a-new-spirit-of-cooperation

    Remnant Moderator .  • 2 hours ago
    "At the time of this posting we did not have confirmation as to where the mass was celebrated. It has since been confirmed by the groom, who informed us that the SSPX priest did in fact offer the traditional Latin Mass at the Novus Ordo church, and we have since added that detail. Far from trying to hide this fact, it offers further indication of a cooperation between the Society in the mainstream church which heretofore was unheard of. This is not to suggest that said cooperation is intrinsically evil in an of itself, of course -- but newsworthy? Indeed! If nothing else, here we have a case of a Novus priest allowing a SSPX priest to come into his church and offer the TLM--something which a few years ago would have been absolutely unthinkable from all sides."


      I have never trusted Mr. Matt.


    Offline Centroamerica

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2671
    • Reputation: +1684/-444
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #50 on: March 26, 2018, 05:45:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  I have never trusted Mr. Matt.
    Seems to me that he sees that many of his readers have become supporters of the Resistance and he has printed several articles with Resistance leanings. He is a big time Bishop Fellay supporter even though he has attended his Indult Masses for years in nearly the same neighborhood as a decent sized SSPX chapel.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Fanny

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 571
    • Reputation: +248/-411
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #51 on: March 26, 2018, 08:41:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • even though he has attended his Indult Masses for years in nearly the same neighborhood as a decent sized SSPX chapel.
    Nevermind.

    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2418
    • Reputation: +1584/-94
    • Gender: Male


    Offline Fanny

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 571
    • Reputation: +248/-411
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #53 on: March 27, 2018, 11:55:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • From groom of the Canadian wedding as shown on the SSPX http://sspx.ca/en/news-events/news/clarification-saskatchewan-wedding

    In response to some of the back and forth from here : https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/3807-sspx-and-the-novus-ordo-a-new-spirit-of-cooperation
    The groom says:
    "We understand that the Society has followed this same procedure for many individual cases long
    before these directives were published anyway; actual SSPX parishioners will know that."

    I attended sspx masses for 25 years and I have NEVER hear such a thing.  I would extend an invitation to this young man to provide examples of his claim.

    The remnant?  Don't trust it.  Not for a LONG time.

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3330/-1939
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #54 on: March 27, 2018, 12:10:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • From groom of the Canadian wedding as shown on the SSPX http://sspx.ca/sites/sspx/files/openletterlessardgreensspxwedding1.pdf
    From their letter:

    “Monica and I consider ourselves not just faithful of the SSPX, but faithful Roman Catholics. In spite of the cancerous crisis going on in the Church, she stays the One True Church of God, and thus the errors of her representatives do not negate the obligation to follow legitimate requests. Neither of us were willing to weaken our marriage bonds by operating outside proper regulations.



    The Remnant magazine In response to some of the back and forth from here : https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/3807-sspx-and-the-novus-ordo-a-new-spirit-of-cooperation

    From the Remnant article:

    While this attitude fails to take into account the complexities of the situation as well as a growing SSPX annulment problem,


    Observations from Last Tradhican

    1) ALL the couples married by the SSPX in the last 50 years did not think that "Neither of us were willing to weaken our marriage bonds by operating outside proper regulations", because the SSPX told them that their marriage bonds were solid as a rock and operating inside proper regulations. Everything changed in the SSPX.

    2) The Remnant brings up the "growing SSPX annulment problem".

    These two points work together.

    Offline Fanny

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 571
    • Reputation: +248/-411
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #55 on: March 27, 2018, 12:25:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Observations from Last Tradhican

    1) ALL the couples married by the SSPX in the last 50 years did not think that "Neither of us were willing to weaken our marriage bonds by operating outside proper regulations", because the SSPX told them that their marriage bonds were solid as a rock and operating inside proper regulations. Everything changed in the SSPX.

    The sspx used to operate as missionaries, which is how the SSPX was canonically formed.

    They no longer want to be missionaries, with chapels and congregations.
    Now they want to be pastors with parishes.

    The growing sspx annulment problem is due to 2 things:
    1. The NO chooses to not recognize sspx marriages and the SSPX is cooperating.
    2. The devil is working on the selfishness of sspx married spouses.  They see an "out".


    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3330/-1939
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #56 on: March 27, 2018, 12:25:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The SSPX is playing both sides in this issue. How can they stand by as the Novus Ordo grants annulments for their marriages, thus assisting their parishioners (or former parishioners ) into adultery? It may just be that the SSPX even accepts these parishioners back with their new partners in sin!

    The SSPX bishops threw Abp. Lefebvre and Bishop Castro de Mayer under the bus when they cowardly negotiated the lifting of their own excommunication without the lifting of the excommunications of Abp. Lefebvre and Bishop Castro de Mayer. It looks to me like they've just thrown all those married by them in the last 50 years under the same bus.

    As one married by the SSPX, I say We are in good company!

    Offline wallflower

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1866
    • Reputation: +1984/-96
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #57 on: March 27, 2018, 01:10:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • What baseless speculation is he talking about?

    The fact that SSPX priests are now leading young impressionable couples to get married in the NO?

    I don't know how that is "baseless speculation" when we have the photo proof put up publicly for all to see, as well as the groom's own admission. 

    Again, what is he calling baseless speculation? 


    Offline Fanny

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 571
    • Reputation: +248/-411
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #58 on: March 27, 2018, 01:15:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The SSPX is playing both sides in this issue. How can they stand by as the Novus Ordo grants annulments for their marriages, thus assisting their parishioners (or former parishioners ) into adultery? It may just be that the SSPX even accepts these parishioners back with their new partners in sin!

    The SSPX bishops threw Abp. Lefebvre and Bishop Castro de Mayer under the bus when they cowardly negotiated the lifting of their own excommunication without the lifting of the excommunications of Abp. Lefebvre and Bishop Castro de Mayer. It looks to me like they've just thrown all those married by them in the last 50 years under the same bus.

    As one married by the SSPX, I say We are in good company!
    LT, the SSPX will indeed accept annulled and even remarried congregation members, and give them holy communion.  They MUST.  They signed on the dotted line.  May God have mercy on the souls of those priests.
     Your marriage is as sound as it ever was.  You gave your wife the sacrament and she gave it to you.  God knows the Truth and God will judge accordingly.
    The confusing part to me is, Whatsoever you shall bind on earth it shall be also bound in heaven and what you shall loose on earth shall it be also done in heaven. (I paraphrase).  How can this be, if Truth is Truth?  Seems to me the sedevecantists are sounding more and more sane...


    But then again I come around to one pope, two churches...  the SSPX is jumping the fence to get to the other church. 


    Satan is working hard to confuse.

    Offline songbird

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5080
    • Reputation: +1999/-409
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Hey SSPX is my Marriage Valid? Can I get an Annulment?
    « Reply #59 on: March 27, 2018, 01:21:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Mercy!  Get a hold of yourselves!  The Sacrament of matrimony consists in the mutual expression by both contracting parties of their free consent to take each other as husband and wife.

    This is the "main act" in the marriage ceremony.   Without it, no marriage takes place.  After this mutual consent is expressed, even if something should interrupt the rest of the ceremonies, the couple are validity married.  The ministers of the sacrament of  matrimony are the contracting parties themselves, the  groom and bride.  The priest is the witness authorized by the Church to be present and bless the union. Page 338-339 of My Catholic Faith by Fr. Morrow

    All of those married, are married and there is no annulments which is foolish.

    As you can see, with the changes, SSPX is Titanic! at this point.