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Author Topic: Hero of the Resistance!  (Read 3292 times)

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Offline klasG4e

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Re: Hero of the Resistance!
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2018, 10:10:54 AM »
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  • No, they're not visible. Someone else had a similar problem recently and, in both cases, the image links are directed at an email provider (AOL, Yahoo) and so I think that is the source of the problem. My guess is you can see them because it links to your email, but no one else can see them.
    Thanks very much for your input MaterDominici.  I'm just wondering now how I might be able to get around this problem.


    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #16 on: March 19, 2018, 10:54:22 AM »
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  • In order to receive orders licitly, the candidate must have the quality required and free from any irregularity or canonical defect. 
     Condition for VALID ordination: Candidate must be 1. Male 2. Baptized. The minister must be a validly consecrated bishop, even though he be schismatic or heretic. CANON 951.
     
     Conditions for LICIT( ie lawful) ordination: Candidates must be 
     1.Confirmed. 2.Morally upright for the order received. 3. Canonical age (ie 24 or above for priesthood). 4. Necessary knowledge. 5. Receive inferior orders (e.g minor orders before major order. 6. Intervals between reception of orders. 7. Canonical title (ie belonging to some association). CANON 975
     
     Impediment to ordination results from irregularity. There are two types of irregularities.
     1. Irregularity from bodily DEFECTS they are : epilepsy, insane or possessed, married validly twice, lost good name through crime, a judge who has condemned to death, executioners.
     2.DEFECTS from crimes; They are Apostacy, heresy and schism. Baptised by non Catholic, attempted marriage in sacred orders, committed homicide, abortion or cooperated, mutilated himself or others, attempted ѕυιcιdє, practiced medicine, exercised power not given (eg deacon hearing confession). CANON 985. 


    1917 code of canon law. 


    Fr. Peter Scott's ordination was not licit.


    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #17 on: March 19, 2018, 11:00:59 AM »
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  • OK, thanks for your comment Fanny, but again could you please quote the section verbatim while mentioning which code (1917 or 1983) you say which makes " being a medical doctor prior to being ordained is a clear violation of canon law."  I'm not trying to say it's not true, but I am suspending belief until I can see the docuмentation.  Thanks in advance!
    Done.
    Also, a quick search and I found this:
    http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8&view=next
    The admin clearly verifies what fr. Scott told me, personally, that he was a medical doctor prior to becoming a priest, with a simple "Not every priest is a medical doctor (fr. Scott, for example is)." -- dated wed, June 7, 2006

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #18 on: March 19, 2018, 01:23:05 PM »
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  • Done.
    Also, a quick search and I found this:
    http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8&view=next
    The admin clearly verifies what fr. Scott told me, personally, that he was a medical doctor prior to becoming a priest, with a simple "Not every priest is a medical doctor (fr. Scott, for example is)." -- dated wed, June 7, 2006
    I can't pull up that link.
     
    Fr. Scott was ordained a priest in 1988 when the 1983 Code was in effect, yet you are judging Fr. Scott's status according to the 1917 Code.  Even if we were to go by the 1917 Code could it have been possible that Fr. Scott received a dispensation, but then, of course, the question would be a dispensation by who!

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #19 on: March 19, 2018, 01:38:11 PM »
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  • In order to receive orders licitly, the candidate must have the quality required and free from any irregularity or canonical defect.
     Condition for VALID ordination: Candidate must be 1. Male 2. Baptized. The minister must be a validly consecrated bishop, even though he be schismatic or heretic. CANON 951.
     
     Conditions for LICIT( ie lawful) ordination: Candidates must be
     1.Confirmed. 2.Morally upright for the order received. 3. Canonical age (ie 24 or above for priesthood). 4. Necessary knowledge. 5. Receive inferior orders (e.g minor orders before major order. 6. Intervals between reception of orders. 7. Canonical title (ie belonging to some association). CANON 975
     
     Impediment to ordination results from irregularity. There are two types of irregularities.
     1. Irregularity from bodily DEFECTS they are : epilepsy, insane or possessed, married validly twice, lost good name through crime, a judge who has condemned to death, executioners.
     2.DEFECTS from crimes; They are Apostacy, heresy and schism. Baptised by non Catholic, attempted marriage in sacred orders, committed homicide, abortion or cooperated, mutilated himself or others, attempted ѕυιcιdє, practiced medicine, exercised power not given (eg deacon hearing confession). CANON 985.


    1917 code of canon law.


    Fr. Peter Scott's ordination was not licit.
    You have the Canon listed wrong, see here :https://books.google.com/books?id=2XbtF6Y21LUC&pg=PA344&lpg=PA344&dq=CANON+985&source=bl&ots=opkWVHvoF7&sig=X-MIWNHJe3tUsSoO5Oqouv9whXs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6qcKNgfnZAhUMRa0KHe7vBz8Q6AEIQjAF#v=onepage&q=CANON%20985&f=false
    Canon 985 -6: Cleric exercising the art of medicine or surgery prohibited them, IF death arise therefrom


    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #20 on: March 19, 2018, 01:41:56 PM »
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  • Oops, I should have added "Buy Hugh Akins books and magazines!!!" There, now it is on topic.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #21 on: March 19, 2018, 02:41:36 PM »
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  • You have the Canon listed wrong, see here :https://books.google.com/books?id=2XbtF6Y21LUC&pg=PA344&lpg=PA344&dq=CANON+985&source=bl&ots=opkWVHvoF7&sig=X-MIWNHJe3tUsSoO5Oqouv9whXs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6qcKNgfnZAhUMRa0KHe7vBz8Q6AEIQjAF#v=onepage&q=CANON%20985&f=false
    Canon 985 -6: Cleric exercising the art of medicine or surgery prohibited them, IF death arise therefrom
    Sorry, to drag this out, but in my attempt to get to the bottom of this I accessed the 1917 Code here: http://www.archive.org/stream/newcanonlaw00woywuoft#page/n17/mode/2up

    What I found is the following under Section 828 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law: "The following persons are irregular by crime (ex delicto) [followed by various categories until we get to subsection 6 which reads: "Clerics practicing medicine or surgery forbidden to them, if thereby the death of a person is caused"

    So.....what are we to surmise from all this?  There is NO prohibition in the 1917 Code for medical doctors to become ordained as priests.  There is a status of irregularity rendered to a cleric who is "practicing medicine or surgery forbidden to them, if thereby the death of a person is caused."  So....please let's not spread false slander about Fr. Scott being a doctor and a priest.  I don't know for absolute sure whether he was a doctor before becoming a priest or not, but that is all besides the point.  What matters is what the Code itself says and by my clear presentation of what the Code says Father Scott appears to be totally in the clear!  Certainly, we should presume his innocence unless proven guilty under the actual language of the code itself!  If you disagree, then, of course, you are free to present your case.

    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #22 on: March 19, 2018, 03:50:16 PM »
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  • I can't pull up that link.
     
    Fr. Scott was ordained a priest in 1988 when the 1983 Code was in effect, yet you are judging Fr. Scott's status according to the 1917 Code.  Even if we were to go by the 1917 Code could it have been possible that Fr. Scott received a dispensation, but then, of course, the question would be a dispensation by who!
    ABL and HIS SSPX followed the 1917 code of canon law.


    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #23 on: March 19, 2018, 03:54:43 PM »
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  • Sorry, to drag this out, but in my attempt to get to the bottom of this I accessed the 1917 Code here: http://www.archive.org/stream/newcanonlaw00woywuoft#page/n17/mode/2up

    What I found is the following under Section 828 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law: "The following persons are irregular by crime (ex delicto) [followed by various categories until we get to subsection 6 which reads: "Clerics practicing medicine or surgery forbidden to them, if thereby the death of a person is caused"

    So.....what are we to surmise from all this?  There is NO prohibition in the 1917 Code for medical doctors to become ordained as priests.  There is a status of irregularity rendered to a cleric who is "practicing medicine or surgery forbidden to them, if thereby the death of a person is caused."  So....please let's not spread false slander about Fr. Scott being a doctor and a priest.  I don't know for absolute sure whether he was a doctor before becoming a priest or not, but that is all besides the point.  What matters is what the Code itself says and by my clear presentation of what the Code says Father Scott appears to be totally in the clear!  Certainly, we should presume his innocence unless proven guilty under the actual language of the code itself!  If you disagree, then, of course, you are free to present your case.
     I showed you the codes, as you asked.
    I can only lead you to the water ...

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #24 on: March 19, 2018, 04:53:11 PM »
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  • Oh no!, Something did not work right, it worked in the preview.

    Anyways, Google this Canon 985 and look for this entry (see below), then scroll up to find Canon 985 (this is a scanned copy of the Canon Law Digest).

    "The 1917 Or Pio-Benedictine Code of Canon Law: In English ...

    Catholic Church, ‎Edward N. Peters - 2001 - ‎Religion
    Canon 99055 (1983 CIC 1047-48) Cross-Ref.: 1917 CIC 991 § 1. It is permitted for Ordinaries, personally or through another, to dispense their subjects from all irregularities arising from occult crime, with the exception of that in Canon 985, n. 4, and others brought to a judicial forum. § 2. Every confessor has this same faculty ..."

    Do not forget to subscribe to the only Resistance periodical, it makes a good reference: http://ca-rc.com/magazines

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #25 on: March 19, 2018, 06:34:52 PM »
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  • In order to receive orders licitly, the candidate must have the quality required and free from any irregularity or canonical defect.
     Condition for VALID ordination: Candidate must be 1. Male 2. Baptized. The minister must be a validly consecrated bishop, even though he be schismatic or heretic. CANON 951.
     
     Conditions for LICIT( ie lawful) ordination: Candidates must be
     1.Confirmed. 2.Morally upright for the order received. 3. Canonical age (ie 24 or above for priesthood). 4. Necessary knowledge. 5. Receive inferior orders (e.g minor orders before major order. 6. Intervals between reception of orders. 7. Canonical title (ie belonging to some association). CANON 975
     
     Impediment to ordination results from irregularity. There are two types of irregularities.
     1. Irregularity from bodily DEFECTS they are : epilepsy, insane or possessed, married validly twice, lost good name through crime, a judge who has condemned to death, executioners.
     2.DEFECTS from crimes; They are Apostacy, heresy and schism. Baptised by non Catholic, attempted marriage in sacred orders, committed homicide, abortion or cooperated, mutilated himself or others, attempted ѕυιcιdє, practiced medicine, exercised power not given (eg deacon hearing confession). CANON 985.


    1917 code of canon law.


    Fr. Peter Scott's ordination was not licit.
    Fanny, can't you see this is ridiculous/absurd on its face.  According to the information you give it says that "practiced medicine" is a crime!


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #26 on: March 19, 2018, 06:47:12 PM »
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  • Oh no!, Something did not work right, it worked in the preview.

    Anyways, Google this Canon 985 and look for this entry (see below), then scroll up to find Canon 985 (this is a scanned copy of the Canon Law Digest).

    "The 1917 Or Pio-Benedictine Code of Canon Law: In English ...

    Catholic Church, ‎Edward N. Peters - 2001 - ‎Religion
    Canon 99055 (1983 CIC 1047-48) Cross-Ref.: 1917 CIC 991 § 1. It is permitted for Ordinaries, personally or through another, to dispense their subjects from all irregularities arising from occult crime, with the exception of that in Canon 985, n. 4, and others brought to a judicial forum. § 2. Every confessor has this same faculty ..."

    Do not forget to subscribe to the only Resistance periodical, it makes a good reference: http://ca-rc.com/magazines
    Thanks for the accessible link Mr. G.

    I went to it and found that Canon 985 subsection #6 reads as follows: "Clerics exercising the art of medicine or surgery prohibited them, if death arises therefrom."

    The simple and logical interpretation of this would be someone practicing medicine or surgery without a valid and active license to do so and in doing so a "death arises therefrom."

    If anyone on this thread wishes to propose that Fr. Scott either before or after he became a priest was practicing medicine or surgery without a valid and active license to do so and in doing so a death resulted therefrom go for it, but please be well prepared to present some clear and damning evidence for all to see!

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #27 on: March 19, 2018, 06:53:16 PM »
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  • Sorry, I'm not sure I get it.  Are there others that can not actually see the letter and the decree in the OP?
    .
    All I can see is a bunch of asterisks like this:
    **********************************************************************
    *******************************
    .
    You ought to copy the letter and the decree to a file on your computer and then upload the file to CI.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #28 on: March 19, 2018, 06:59:25 PM »
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  • Thanks very much for your input MaterDominici.  I'm just wondering now how I might be able to get around this problem.
    .
    This is what I see in the OP:
    .
    Mr. Akins website is http://ca-rc.com/articles/on-league-of-christ-the-king

    *******************************************************************************************************


    *******************************************************************************************************

    ********************************************************************************
    .
    Like I said above, if you can make two files on your computer each one containing one of the two docuмents, then return to CI and make Attachments for each one using the "Attachments and other options" feature below the posting window.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Hero of the Resistance!
    « Reply #29 on: March 19, 2018, 07:31:59 PM »
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  • .
    This is what I see in the OP:
    .
    Mr. Akins website is http://ca-rc.com/articles/on-league-of-christ-the-king

    *******************************************************************************************************


    *******************************************************************************************************

    ********************************************************************************
    .
    Like I said above, if you can make two files on your computer each one containing one of the two docuмents, then return to CI and make Attachments for each one using the "Attachments and other options" feature below the posting window.
    Thanks for the suggestion Neil.  I can actually see the two docuмents in your post here.  I wonder if anyone else can.