Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: sspxbvm on September 02, 2012, 05:39:57 PM
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We heard heresy today.
What was the heresy?
Since it was public I don't think it was meant to be kept a secret. The priest told the people that if you don't support a Catholic School by either putting your children in one or giving them money the Church tells us that the priest is NOT to give absolution in confession. Further he said that if we don't want to put our children in a Catholic school we are to get the permission of the local bishop. He says this is Church teaching. He told us we are to do God's will in this matter not use our emotions. He also used the words "youth movement" in the Church. I havent heard that since I was a "Nervous Order" parishoner 20 years ago.
There was a sacrilege also. During communion the priest instead of blessing our children with the sign of the cross in the open air TOUCHED OUR CHILDREN ON THE FORHEAD with his hand that distributes HOLY COMMUNION. Fine example of not using our emotions, yes? Just have to touch them? This is a first EVER in a Society chapel.
This Mass was at Saint Vincent de Paul in Kansas City, MO. Father Violette (spelling?) gave the typical "trust US" talk just before this priest gave his 45-60 minute sermon! Father Violette said the DEVIL IS LEADING THE OPPOSITION TO BISHOP FELLAY. "Come to us" he says.
These are OUTRAGES. Almost every sermon we hear now a days have some form of error. I am close, friends. Very close to walking out and/or shouting in the open: "HERESY!"
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Did he explicitly condemn homeschooling, or was he talking about sending children to public school, without any kind of support for an SSPX school?
Because I agree -- parents are VERY remiss (to put it politely) if they just send their children to public school. You might as well rip the Faith right out of their hearts.
Parents, even if they're ignorant, need to be "admonished" by their priests about the evils of public school. The Baby Boomer culture or way of doing things doesn't work anymore, and part of that "formula" is public school.
Public school was different when the Boomers grew up. Now you have co-ed sɛҳuąƖ education, overt atheism, training children to be slaves in a nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr (terror drills, children getting shot during such drills, children being traumatized by SWAT teams invading their classroom, etc.), and cell phones which are a grave social/moral danger for children (I can only imagine how my school days would have been different with cell phones in every backpack!)
And I know that lack of support for SSPX schools is a veritable PLAGUE right now. People just don't care. The bad ones send their children to public school. The good ones homeschool. That leaves very little support for putting together a Catholic school.
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According to him homeschooling should be VERY RARE for rare cases of necessity like if the child has some sort of heath issue. The problem lies in that he claims all of this is taught from the Church as necessary for salvation. Also, he said it was necessary to send children to a Catholic school to get vocations. He says your family isn't perfect. The family needs the schools. Yes, in many cases this can be proven as being correct. However, it isn't necessary for salvation.
Also, the strong implication is that not just parents but EVERYBODY must financially support the schools.
We know of several families who are pulling their kids out of SSPX schools now because of the weakening of the curriculum. SSPX schools, if financially strapped, are not going to improve with their current direction.
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According to him homeschooling should be VERY RARE for rare cases of necessity like if the child has some sort of heath issue...
If he says that, then he is wrong.
Parents should homeschool.
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According to him homeschooling should be VERY RARE for rare cases of necessity like if the child has some sort of heath issue.
They are just incredibly controlling and manipulative people. The French are really lacking in shame.
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Homeschooling is the way to go. If I had kids, even if I had an SSPX school nearby, I'd homeschool them instead. Especially now that Bishop Fellay has changed for the worst. I can imagine the liberalism in SSPX schools right now.
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Homeschooling is the way to go. If I had kids, even if I had an SSPX school nearby, I'd homeschool them instead. Especially now that Bishop Fellay has changed for the worst. I can imagine the liberalism in SSPX schools right now.
I don't know if "liberalism" is exactly the right word to use, but the problem is that the sort of people who wanted the deal are going to be the typical parents at the SSPX schools. Those people are very confused, to say the least, but they and their children will conform to the outward requirements of being a Fellayite, more than to Catholic Tradition. And they will try to cause your own children to conform to it. To become Fellayite. Unthinking, intolerant, "open" to the suggestions of the "elder brothers" and Benedict XVI.
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Yeah, liberalism is just the first word that came to mind. Perhaps "neo-Traditionalism" would better describe it.
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Further he said that if we don't want to put our children in a Catholic school we are to get the permission of the local bishop.
Does "local bishop" refer to the NO-Bishop of the local diocese?
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Further he said that if we don't want to put our children in a Catholic school we are to get the permission of the local bishop.
Does "local bishop" refer to the NO-Bishop of the local diocese?
YES!
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Further he said that if we don't want to put our children in a Catholic school we are to get the permission of the local bishop.
Does "local bishop" refer to the NO-Bishop of the local diocese?
YES!
Does "Catholic school" denote "SSPX school"?
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NO!!! HE said "If you can find a better school, send them!"
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NO!!! HE said "If you can find a better school, send them!"
Wouldn't it be easy to get permission from the local bishop to not put the children in a SSPX school. So what is his point?
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So let me get this straight...
Catholics are obligated to send their kids to Catholic school, and homeschooling is for rare cases.
So we, who have no SSPX school nearby, should go to our Novus Ordo bishop to get permission to homeschool, or we should just send our children to the local Novus Ordo school?
That's insane!
And he's also out of line for claiming moral imperative to send children to the ad-hoc schools known as SSPX schools. They might be fine for a crisis situation -- but we ARE in a crisis. That not only justifies homeschooling in MOST if not ALL cases, but it also means that SSPX schools can't lay claim to the status Catholic Schools once had.
SSPX schools are poor in many cases. End of story. Poor in educational standards, poor in staff, poor in resources, etc.
So my poor "original sin" family isn't enough (agreed), but send my child to a school with a bunch of other "original sin" children, and a low-paid guy in his early 20's making less than a living wage -- and MAGIC WILL HAPPEN?
(Low-paid guy refers to a layman. I'm NOT talking about SSPX priests, who have plenty of education. Unfortunately, there aren't enough of them to go around, and certainly not enough to staff an entire school)
Sorry, I'm not buying it.
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CLARIFICATION
From our good Father Pfeiffer. He just spoke to us and said it use to be the custom in the old Baltimore Catechism that you would have to get permission from the bishop if you were not going to have your children in a Catholic School. He said the rest of the material was wrong to say.
In our crisis why would we subject ourselves to those Bishops anyway? Hence none of it should apply!
God speed!
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CLARIFICATION
From our good Father Pfeiffer. He just spoke to us and said it use to be the custom in the old Baltimore Catechism that you would have to get permission from the bishop if you were not going to have your children in a Catholic School. He said the rest of the material was wrong to say.
In our crisis why would we subject ourselves to those Bishops anyway? Hence none of it should apply!
God speed!
You never have to put your children into an environment where there is a high risk of them being corrupted. The way most children of trads are these days, schools can't be trusted.
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So, you are saying, that you are in a Pius X chapel and this priest refers you to a local New Order bishop? Is that correct? Sounds bazarre. But if that is the case, then he is New Order. We do have some Pius the X that are of the New Order and not ordained in Pius X. Infiltraitors? Once Pius X is turned over everything is turned over to New Order, schools, churches and property, I do understand. It sounds like to me, you will have to find traditional else where. I home schooled our 3 children and it was that, that brought us to the traditional side.
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ANOTHER CLARIFICATION: Father Pfeiffer also told us that it would be a sacrilege to touch somebody with the thumb during communion. Certain fingers would be okay but not proper.
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I agree with Matthew.
The SSPX has actually been pushing for a while now the idea that attending one of their schools is mandatory if you have access to one. I think its nonsense.
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It has no basis in Catholic tradition.
Mandatory schooling is a secular concept from the last two hundred years.
I do not think that Rome ever said that sending children to school was obligatory.
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Show me an official Church docuмent (before V2) stating Catholics cannot home school -- whether the parents do the actual teaching OR they hire a tutor to do the same. Show me these docuмents that demand Catholics can ONLY send their children to Catholic "brick and mortar" schools. SHOW ME.
Yes, we get a lot of that at our parish. Heavy push to send our children to the schools.
Agree -- substandard teachers (many of them relatives of SSPX priests) and assorted laypersons with no or little background in EDUCATION -- yet they tell us we parents are not qualified to teach our children. But these characters are. Most of them are teaching there because they've been there forever.
Facilities are limited, crowded, not up to code. Priests with NO experience right out of the seminary run the schools.
Don't get me started on the other children. The filth from their mouths is unbelievable. THESE ARE SO CALLED TRADITIONAL CATHOLICS. Dream on.
Catholics schools in the "old days" worked because the Faith was intact, the teaching sisters/brothers did not not require schools to charge unreasonable tuition, etc.
Sorry SSPX, some of us just simply CAN'T AFFORD IT. What part of that do they not understand? They actually tell us we should go into debt to pay to send our children to their schools. We have actually heard that! And then when you get over your head, they send you legal forms to promise to pay back or they will take you to court. UNBELIEVABLE.
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Further he said that if we don't want to put our children in a Catholic school we are to get the permission of the local bishop.
Does "local bishop" refer to the NO-Bishop of the local diocese?
It would have to, since none of the SSPX bishops have jurisdiction. They are not in any sense local bishops.
It seems to me that the SSPX is making itself over in the image of a cult more and more every day.
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Further he said that if we don't want to put our children in a Catholic school we are to get the permission of the local bishop.
Does "local bishop" refer to the NO-Bishop of the local diocese?
It would have to, since none of the SSPX bishops have jurisdiction. They are not in any sense local bishops.
It seems to me that the SSPX is making itself over in the image of a cult more and more every day.
It's certainly not what it once was!! Slipping fast.
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I go to St. V's, have for over 20 years. I agree with every thing said above, re: forcing us to support the local school. I don't, won't , can't and will not try. Love my kids too much to send them to one of the highest crime ridden 'hoods' in the USA. This is all about money and control. I will give them much less of the former and none of the latter.
Behold the buck of the priest, mystically transubstantiated from mine into his.
btw, Father D. uses his free fingers to bless my kids, not his thumb. He is French tho, and that is very bad enough. When I speak to him again, I will reject his offer for fromage in a German accent and hope he doesn't dive under a chair. He is a good priest most of the time tho.
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We heard heresy today.
Maybe you could write a respectful letter to the priest, for the sake of his soul. If there is danger of being kicked out or some sort of retribution, maybe respectfully explain why you are not giving your name.
That's the Catholic method I was taught-and then if they remain obstinate you go to the bishop, and then you go public.
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We heard heresy today.
Maybe you could write a respectful letter to the priest, for the sake of his soul. If there is danger of being kicked out or some sort of retribution, maybe respectfully explain why you are not giving your name.
That's the Catholic method I was taught-and then if they remain obstinate you go to the bishop, and then you go public.
Excellent advice. If we were not in a terrible crisis. At present it is important to expose errors. However, we will write him when we are able (must write all 3 bishops first and ask them to save tradition.)Thanks.
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Parents are given special graces at Marriage to teach their children. I wish I knew then what I know now.
Both CS & PS proved to provide State Curriculum. My children were in both. I taught in both.
I finally home schooled after the early years, and saw a great improvement in all areas: behavior, scholastic achievement, and the most important of all: THE FAITH. I chose our curriculum, courses, and books, and had control over what to choose that included Catholic Teaching, which I did my best to imbue in all subjects, if it did not already present itself. No school is perfect; but it really made a tremendous difference in my house. I wish I'd been wise to it sooner.
I was told that in spiritual direction once, by an SSPX priest, who said I should send them to one of their schools because home schooling was not good. REALLY! I am no Mensa Graduate, but the home factor is more personal, and we are able to spend the extra time with our children that NO school can provide. Not to mention other things like cooking, baking, sewing, gardening, carpentry, etc., that they learned at home.
I did not like that many of the teachers were actually graduates of the SSPX High Schools only, and were teaching right out of the box, some being only 18.
No thanks.
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We heard heresy today.
What was the heresy?
Since it was public I don't think it was meant to be kept a secret. The priest told the people that if you don't support a Catholic School by either putting your children in one or giving them money the Church tells us that the priest is NOT to give absolution in confession. Further he said that if we don't want to put our children in a Catholic school we are to get the permission of the local bishop. He says this is Church teaching. He told us we are to do God's will in this matter not use our emotions. He also used the words "youth movement" in the Church. I havent heard that since I was a "Nervous Order" parishoner 20 years ago.
There was a sacrilege also. During communion the priest instead of blessing our children with the sign of the cross in the open air TOUCHED OUR CHILDREN ON THE FORHEAD with his hand that distributes HOLY COMMUNION. Fine example of not using our emotions, yes? Just have to touch them? This is a first EVER in a Society chapel.
This Mass was at Saint Vincent de Paul in Kansas City, MO. Father Violette (spelling?) gave the typical "trust US" talk just before this priest gave his 45-60 minute sermon! Father Violette said the DEVIL IS LEADING THE OPPOSITION TO BISHOP FELLAY. "Come to us" he says.
These are OUTRAGES. Almost every sermon we hear now a days have some form of error. I am close, friends. Very close to walking out and/or shouting in the open: "HERESY!"
Still waiting for the heretical part...
I spoke with the priest in question yesterday. While I certainly disagree with his position on this particular issue (we homeschool), there is nothing heretical about it.
It seems to me that you have a very active imagination in your reporting of recent events.
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The first council of Baltimore instructed priests not to refuse absolution to penitents who had failed to pay their dues to the parish.
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I just want to relate an incident with a cell phone that happened here in the Western United States recently at a public school. A young man took photos of his girlfriend naked (they were both 16) with his BlackBerry. The boy and girl subsequently had a fight and the boy then forwarded the dirty photos to everybody on his calling list. Somehow or other, the principal of the school learned about it and called the police and the boy was charged with several felonies, made much more serious because he and the girl were both minors. Many legal battles and much heartache later, the young man had to plead guilty to three felonies and he will have to register as a sex offender for the next 23 years! I do not have children, but if I did and there was not an SSPX school nearby, I would homeschool them. You would not believe the things that go on in US schools. A friend of mine took his kids out of public school and homeschooled them because the health class teacher was teaching the kids how to use condoms--"just in case they had the need," as she said--and these kids were 12 years old. Our schools are very wicked. It is heartbreaking.
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I just want to relate an incident with a cell phone that happened here in the Western United States recently at a public school. A young man took photos of his girlfriend naked (they were both 16) with his BlackBerry. The boy and girl subsequently had a fight and the boy then forwarded the dirty photos to everybody on his calling list. Somehow or other, the principal of the school learned about it and called the police and the boy was charged with several felonies, made much more serious because he and the girl were both minors. Many legal battles and much heartache later, the young man had to plead guilty to three felonies and he will have to register as a sex offender for the next 23 years! I do not have children, but if I did and there was not an SSPX school nearby, I would homeschool them. You would not believe the things that go on in US schools. A friend of mine took his kids out of public school and homeschooled them because the health class teacher was teaching the kids how to use condoms--"just in case they had the need," as she said--and these kids were 12 years old. Our schools are very wicked. It is heartbreaking.
This is a very common situation, across the board. It is totally heartbreaking, devastating and terrifying. Big Brother is going after kids, shooting fish in a barrel, to deflect attention from the very regular sex offenses committed by ADULTS, not stupid and confused kids. Adults do not get the same harsh penalties as kids do, and we know the adult predators do far more harm, to hundreds of kids per offender.
And in too many cases, the trad schools are not a safe place, either. Problems range from unreasonable academic expectations (average or below do not stand a chance-even though the whole point is to form souls for Heaven) or there are too many instances of misconduct amongst the staff, or it's all about nepotism and cliques. Quite often the teachers are just plain not qualified, and they are extremely underpaid anyway. (I know first hand of good trad schools, as well as evil ones.)
Good parents understandably wish to protect their families from the above--which is a very typical description, not isolated cases, no way--and are often in for major heartache when they join one of the exclusive trad schools.
Who wouldn't want their kids to get a nice traditional Catholic education at a safe, sane, loving school? Of course the priest wants it to be be one big happy family--that would be us living the Kingship of Christ. We are not supposed to expose our kids to pagan influence.
In the larger scheme of things I refuse to accuse Sspxbvm's priest of heresy. Rather he appears uninformed, as most of them seem to be, about the crisis good Catholics face in educating our children.
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SSPXbvm: do you actually have a recording or official transcript of what Fr. Pierre Duverger said during his sermon?
I ask, because you are misquoting and taking out of context much of what he said - I was in the sacristy during the sermon, so I heard it too and from a closer proximity. And its message was quite different from what you are relating - though of course you were sitting at the very back of the church which is very long (193 ft), so perhaps you misheard Fr. Duverger with his French accent?
More importantly, if you cannot give exact quotes of what he said, then you are merely offering your private opinion (spin) of what he said, and not the actual words. This in turn leads to false rumors and gossip, which we must avoid as Catholics.
Lastly, during Communion, Fr. Duverger does not touch the foreheads of children with his thumb (joined to his index finger), when blessing them but with his middle finger - I have witnessed him doing this and have personally verified this with him as well. While this is not part of the official rite of Communion, many priests do bless children that are brought to the rail. But if you don't want your darling child blessed, just post a big sign on his forehead that says: Don't bless.
Finally to repeat Fr. Violette's words during his announcements (not the sermon), if you want know what Fr. Duverger *really said and meant* why don't you call and ask HIM instead of uselessly speculating and thus relying on what actually amounts to HEARSAY.
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SSPXbvm: do you actually have a recording or official transcript of what Fr. Pierre Duverger said during his sermon?
I ask, because you are misquoting and taking out of context much of what he said - I was in the sacristy during the sermon, so I heard it too and from a closer proximity. And its message was quite different from what you are relating - though of course you were sitting at the very back of the church which is very long (193 ft), so perhaps you misheard Fr. Duverger with his French accent?
More importantly, if you cannot give exact quotes of what he said, then you are merely offering your private opinion (spin) of what he said, and not the actual words. This in turn leads to false rumors and gossip, which we must avoid as Catholics.
Lastly, during Communion, Fr. Duverger does not touch the foreheads of children with his thumb (joined to his index finger), when blessing them but with his middle finger - I have witnessed him doing this and have personally verified this with him as well. While this is not part of the official rite of Communion, many priests do bless children that are brought to the rail. But if you don't want your darling child blessed, just post a big sign on his forehead that says: Don't bless.
Finally to repeat Fr. Violette's words during his announcements (not the sermon), if you want know what Fr. Duverger *really said and meant* why don't you call and ask HIM instead of uselessly speculating and thus relying on what actually amounts to HEARSAY.
Why not clarify where he was wrong, instead of focusing on how gossipy and "wrong" he is.
How about a BIT more innocent divulging of the true facts, and less ad-hominem attacks, poisoning the well, etc.
If I were innocently trying to defend a good priest, I'd be quick with the actual facts.
I could be wrong, but you have the savor of "online damage control".
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Matthew: I would point out specifics, except that what he stated about Fr. Duverger's sermon is ALL wrong and completely taken out of context!
So again, cf. Fr. Duverger to find out what he really said and meant; he's easy to reach at 816-753-0073 and operators will be standing by as of 8:30am CST tomorrow morning.
By the way, I did point out one specific - about which finger he actually used to bless (touch) with.
Since I have pointed this out and it can be verified by hundreds of others who were at St. Vincent's and he personally knows of my discerning eye for such liturgical details, I hope that he will allow that he was incorrect in what he perceived was a sacrilege and thereby retract such a serious charge (which should never be made lightly). Otherwise, I am afraid that he will have committed the serious crime of calumny (lying about a priest committing a sacrilege).
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I'd agree above, as I stated he uses his free fingers to bless, as is appropriate, my hildren too young to recieve, OR leave in the pew. He's a veru good priest, just missed the mark o this partigular topic, that's all. I'd hardly call him a heretic, as on things Catholic, he's solid as a rock. Never met a french priest who wasn't opiniionated. So what? I'm still gonna homeschool, and pack a .45 to our parish in the hood (have a permit by the way and expressed permission from Fr. Violette to do so.)
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Homeschooling is the way to go. If I had kids, even if I had an SSPX school nearby, I'd homeschool them instead. Especially now that Bishop Fellay has changed for the worst. I can imagine the liberalism in SSPX schools right now.
I don't know if "liberalism" is exactly the right word to use, but the problem is that the sort of people who wanted the deal are going to be the typical parents at the SSPX schools. Those people are very confused, to say the least, but they and their children will conform to the outward requirements of being a Fellayite, more than to Catholic Tradition. And they will try to cause your own children to conform to it. To become Fellayite. Unthinking, intolerant, "open" to the suggestions of the "elder brothers" and Benedict XVI.
they may want a deal to play it safe for this children......some people,esp women, tend to be compromisers esp if kids involved....
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I agree with Matthew.
The SSPX has actually been pushing for a while now the idea that attending one of their schools is mandatory if you have access to one. I think its nonsense.
sounds more like trying to get the rolls up and the $$
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does this priest mean,' it is taught from/by the church, we must send our children to a Catholic school, where is this Church, id like to join....... :cry:
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Regarding the priest blessing the children at the altar rail: all the more reason why anyone not receiving Communion shouldn't be there. It wasn't done before the NO. Father turns around & blesses us twice during Mass. That's not enough?
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It has no basis in Catholic tradition.
Mandatory schooling is a secular concept from the last two hundred years.
I do not think that Rome ever said that sending children to school was obligatory.
I wonder why the public schools were spoken out against but not compulsory attendance laws.
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SSPXbvm: do you actually have a recording or official transcript of what Fr. Pierre Duverger said during his sermon?
I ask, because you are misquoting and taking out of context much of what he said - I was in the sacristy during the sermon, so I heard it too and from a closer proximity. And its message was quite different from what you are relating - though of course you were sitting at the very back of the church which is very long (193 ft), so perhaps you misheard Fr. Duverger with his French accent?...
I only recently saw this post, and first, want to thank the poster for mentioning Fr. Duverger's name. I was feeling a little guilty for mentioning it in my other post which Matthew, I think, had on homeschooling - sorry for the derailment.
To the above poster, we were not sitting in the back of the church and can agree with everything SSPXBVM posted. Also, regarding the issue of heresy I think SSPXBVM mentioned it because we were told we should not receive absolution if we homeschool.
I've heard others at St. Vincent say they weren't sure "anymore" if Father actually said the above, and no longer trust their own ears.
Not everyone forgets so easily, and the issue is not dead.
For those who don't trust what they hear the first time, I think next time they won't be so easily fooled. I can understand people want to trust their leadership, and will give them the benefit of the doubt, but only for so long.
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ANOTHER CLARIFICATION: Father Pfeiffer also told us that it would be a sacrilege to touch somebody with the thumb during communion. Certain fingers would be okay but not proper.
What's the meaning of this odd statement please?
Why would anyone want to touch anyone during communion anyway.
It all sounds superstitious to me. sorry.
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This was several years ago when I looked into it, but I thought the high school in KC for SSPX was basically the kids enrolling in Seton and they had a supervisor? How could they be against homeschooling if this is their set up.
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ANOTHER CLARIFICATION: Father Pfeiffer also told us that it would be a sacrilege to touch somebody with the thumb during communion. Certain fingers would be okay but not proper.
I'm bumping this up again, because I need to know what it's all about ?
anyone?
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ANOTHER CLARIFICATION: Father Pfeiffer also told us that it would be a sacrilege to touch somebody with the thumb during communion. Certain fingers would be okay but not proper.
I'm bumping this up again, because I need to know what it's all about ?
anyone?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BeE9TacCjec/ToLiHK61dvI/AAAAAAAAEso/2Fo2HAIyN4I/s1600/priest-finger-thumb-consecration.jpg)
Because the thumb and the index fingers are kept apart after after touching the consecrated hosts, and should not touch anything else until after purification. The other fingers may be used to handle other items though.
(http://www.catholicchapterhouse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Consecration-of-the-Precious-Blood.jpg)
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It has no basis in Catholic tradition.
Mandatory schooling is a secular concept from the last two hundred years.
I do not think that Rome ever said that sending children to school was obligatory.
I wonder why the public schools were spoken out against but not compulsory attendance laws.
Good point! In America anyway, the idea of mandatory public schools financed by taxpayers against their will, whether or not they have kids, should be repugnant.
To make matters worse, all these tax dollars are paying for a very bad product, generally speaking poorly educated and immoral children.
It is sinful to put Catholic children in public school without approval from the bishop. In our times, that would involve the use epikeia. Would a true Catholic bishop allow your children to go into these cesspools?
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Regarding the priest blessing the children at the altar rail: all the more reason why anyone not receiving Communion shouldn't be there. It wasn't done before the NO. Father turns around & blesses us twice during Mass. That's not enough?
IT'S A COMMUNION RAIL NOT A BLESSING RAIL ! It is teaching the children (and the children in the pews) to approach the rail without preparation.
The priest should know better if the parent doesn't. What happens when it becomes the norm, and a visiting priest mistakenly gives communion to a 6 year old who looks 8?
Just another NO novelty creeping into the SSPX.
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SSPXBVM said:
The priest told the people that if you don't support a Catholic School by either putting your children in one or giving them money the Church tells us that the priest is NOT to give absolution in confession. Further he said that if we don't want to put our children in a Catholic school we are to get the permission of the local bishop. He says this is Church teaching.
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I've never heard of this?
So, would this mean a man dying on the street, if he isn't an SSPX financial supporter, doesn't get a final absolution?
If the priest was "liberal" and decided to offer him final Sacraments, would the man first have to agree to support the SSPX if he recovered ?
The SSPX priories have been telling the faithful they will not give last rites to non SSPX chapel faithful. This was stated by a US based SSPX French priest just four months ago, to my associate, who's friend was dying in the hospital.
Under the wise guidance of Msgr. Fellay, our once faithful, little SSPX has grown-up to be a mean teenager... no longer interested in saving souls, but in making his way with the world.
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nasty, nasty people all around in the organization now. And unfortunately, like attracts like. The unscrupulous chapel-goers ally with unscrupulous priests.
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re: communion rails... children approaching, with parents, but not recieving, simply cover their mouths with the tips of their fingers...... at least that what i thought.
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SSPXBVM said:
The priest told the people that if you don't support a Catholic School by either putting your children in one or giving them money the Church tells us that the priest is NOT to give absolution in confession. Further he said that if we don't want to put our children in a Catholic school we are to get the permission of the local bishop. He says this is Church teaching.
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I've never heard of this?
So, would this mean a man dying on the street, if he isn't an SSPX financial supporter, doesn't get a final absolution?
If the priest was "liberal" and decided to offer him final Sacraments, would the man first have to agree to support the SSPX if he recovered ?
The SSPX priories have been telling the faithful they will not give last rites to non SSPX chapel faithful. This was stated by a US based SSPX French priest just four months ago, to my associate, who's friend was dying in the hospital.
Under the wise guidance of Msgr. Fellay, our once faithful, little SSPX has grown-up to be a mean teenager... no longer interested in saving souls, but in making his way with the world.
There is something like this but I think it's about not putting your kids in public school and getting permission to put them in public school. I'm hesitant to start interpreting encyclicals :laugh1: but I think it was about using a public school instead of a Catholic school.
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Trento,
Good on you.
"...SSPXbvm: do you actually have a recording or official transcript of what Fr. Pierre Duverger said during his sermon?...."
Yes, how can a bunch of Middle Class Catholics not afford a $50 recorder to record each Mass and post it on the Internet, YOUTUBE in example?
Not to convict Priests, but to edify souls.
Destitute Negroes from my old neighborhood evangelize better than you cushy trads do.
Get busy everybody, or you will find yourself worshiping nothing, ala the Jews.
The Worship of nothing will have you forever complaining, and doing some awfully stupid things.
*
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Further he said that if we don't want to put our children in a Catholic school we are to get the permission of the local bishop.
Does "local bishop" refer to the NO-Bishop of the local diocese?
YES!
I told you that these deals with Rome was made along time ago and that these discussions were really plans to go on with next phase...
they got rid of Bishop Williamson
next the send in the lukewarm to continue with brainwashing and dirtywork.
The local liberal bishops are the main problems with Vatican II.
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I hope everything remains good and holy at St. Judes in Eddystone, Pennsylvania. :incense:
Reminder: the biggest problem with the novus ordo is the vatican II bishops and cardinals.. :fryingpan:
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The sheeple priests that are left standing in the Sacristies know that the slightest erroneous move they make( eg: contradicting Menzingen) will spell curtains for them. That's why the thugs lop off the heads-- to bring about intimidation and fear. That's why Bp Tissier was sent to Chicago; that's why Bp deGalaretta was sent to French-speaking Europe. No More Leaks !!
Regarding the schools-- almost every SSPX school began as a home school, or some derivation thereof. The priests all knew they had to get the parents slowly , and then build the schools. Parents ARE blessed by Almighty God to educate their own children-- then they can instill the values that they received from their own parents, and drill their own faith deep into the child. There is no school on earth better than the home school-- none. A dedicated, prayerful Mother ( and Father) teaching the child God gave them is the way God designed it. The Catholic school offers economies of scale. Every Mom cannot be expert at, say, biology or algebra. So, they band together. The Our Lady of Victory program was always a challenging, teachable, home-school program.
When the SSPX kept to its promise of opposing Vatican II errors and heresies, it was quite worth the effort to support them. But now, the SSPX teaches that parents commit mortal sin by going to the Traditional Latin Mass of , say, Fathers Pfeiffer or Chazal (http://www.sossaveoursspx.com/priestsspeakout). These were the same priests that, yesterday, the SSPX sent to our very parishes!! Now, SSPX priests are teaching the children that their own parents are committing mortal sin by following their consciences!
Now, the SSPX teaches that we can accept 95 % of the Vatican Council II-- that the Novus Ordo could be okay-- that religious liberty, to a small degree , may be accepted- (http://www.sossaveoursspx.com)- that the "mission" of the SSPX priests comes from the local Ordinary( Novus Ordo Bishop)--All of these teachings are 180 degrees opposed to Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre-- they are 180 degrees opposed to Traditional Catholic theology-- they are opposite of what the SSPX has fought for 40 years!.
So --can you send you child to an SSPX school today? In most cases, no. There are still a few SSPX priests who have not swallowed all the kool-aid of Menzingen's new religion-- and they are still faithful to their ordination vows. But be careful-- the SSPX is actively recruiting Novus Ordo presbyters to come in and teach, to "say" the Mass, to preach retreats. The more presbyters, who are not Catholic priests, that come in, the easier it will be for Fellay and Co to expel the remaining faithful "Lefebvrists".
Remember, there are no Diocesan Bishops anywhere in the United States--none. They have all left the Catholic Church. Just as Archbishop Lefebvre stated, quite clearly, that " Rome has lost the faith-- they have left the Church", the Bishops gave up their faith. Right now, there is no Bishop Ordinary Jurisdiction.It is a well-established law of the Church that when you deny one truth of the faith, you lose your faith-- you cease being a Catholic. This is a law for the protection of our faith-- so we are not led astray!. A non-Catholic cannot head any Diocese--period. There is no Bishop that can give approval for an excommunication, nor is there a Bishop that can annul remit one. The Sees are all empty. Go take a look at that laughing stock in New York Archdiocese. And here, my friends, is the very essence of the problem:
Bishop Fellay and his cronies see that there is such a dearth of capability in any of the so-called Bishops and priests of the establishment church. So, their plan is to sneak in the back door, kiss up to ratzinger, Mueller, deNoia, and all the liberal, modernist so-called Bishops, get their little band of obedient priests somehow into the body of the church, then work to take it over. But here's the rub: to do so, they have to wipe away all the memory of the Archbishop and everything he stood for. They have to get you to forget what tradition is, and they have to get you to believe that tradition is only what they say it is. It's a masterful plan.
But it will not work. For two reasons: Firstly, Ratzinger, Mueller, deNoia hate the Archbishop. Ratzinger, remember, battled him at the Council. Mueller and deNoia was nurse-fed on ʝʊdɛօ/masonic modernism. They, therefore, hate everything from the Archbishop; they hate everything from Pope St Pius X; they hate everything from Pope St Pius V. They have Fellay's number--they are the masters at deception and subterfuge--and they did him in.("The Pope tricked me-- Boo Hoo!"). Secondly: As a man says, so he soon believes . As fellay gets more and more of the SSPX priests to swallow this modernist junk, they start believing it-- just as he now believes it. Listen to his " Adelaide " sermon, here, where (http://www.sossaveoursspx.com) he details how the "holy, Catholic" Church has to be "bloodied, beaten, scandal-scarred and perverted" in order to again rise . His entire thesis is the perversions and heresies of the churchmen for the last 40 years is really necessary for the catholic Church! This is how one gets when you have to swallow these lies.
Now --he's desperate. Now-- he's got to pull off a union before this Ratzinger dies-- because Mueller will just send him back to excommunication land again!www.sossaveoursspx.com[ (http://www.sossaveoursspx.com)i][/i]null (http://null)
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"...Pablo, rash judgement again. And your response will probably be uncharitable again. You hurt yourself with these posts you make. So you'll probably tell us we are doing nothing, etc, etc, etc when you have no clue who we are or what we've done. Incredible. Watching your posts we wonder if you are not a double agent in this fight. We certainly don't trust you, sorry to say and would advise other people to be wary. You act as if what ever you have done is satisfactory. Oh. Wait. It is! In your eyes! Thats all that matters, yes? ..."
Get moving and start working in the fight.
There are too few Catholics working to extend the kingdom of Christ.
Those Catholics that know of me are not offended by my posts, some are pleased the cushy Catholics get a boot to the behind every now and then.
My favorite sermon is one given by Father Cyprian, the Father Prior of Our Lady of Guadalupe Monastery.
It was at Saint Isidore the Farmer Church in Denver, Colorado.
He apologized that the kneelers of the pews his Monks handmade for the Trads were not comfortable enough.
Many Trads complained bitterly that their comfort was disturbed, even in the least.
He promised to come back and install cashmere kneelers for them...
They were pleased to hear it.
Do you require cashmere words to soothe you?
Look elsewhere.
You won't get them from me.
Maybe you can ask father Cyprian for some.
We are in deep trouble, and Soldiers are needed, not creampuffs.
Man up.
*
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(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71NA4C9XRUL.jpg)
VS[/b]
(http://www.gomanzanillo.com/features/Charreada/matador.jpg)
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Hugeman said:
But now, the SSPX teaches that parents commit mortal sin by going to the Traditional Latin Mass of , say, Fathers Pfeiffer or Chazal (http://www.sossaveoursspx.com/priestsspeakout). These were the same priests that, yesterday, the SSPX sent to our very parishes!! Now, SSPX priests are teaching the children that their own parents are committing mortal sin by following their consciences!
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The NeoSSPX Confessional:
Enter: SSPX penitent
Bless me Father for I have sinned.
Its been seven days since my last confession.
I was mean to my wife twice, I gossiped 5 times, I engaged in some impure thoughts 3 times and I went on SOSSAVEOURSSPX.com 27 times.
Father: What did you do at SOSSAVEOURSSPX.com ?
Penitent: Oh, I saw the story about Bp. Williamson's expulsion and read Fr. Phlugers PR piece about back to square one and tried to understand some analysis of Bishop Fellay's comments on newRome and the Council.
Father: Do you like Fr. Phulger's writing style ?
Penitent: Uh... not really.
Father: Good... neither do I.
Okay, now make an effort to be nicer to your wife and be sure to pray the Rosary with your family every night.
Penitent: Okay Father, I'll take her to dinner tonight.
Uh, how about the mortal sin part of going on the website... what's the reference of this sin to the 10 Commandments ?
Father: Uh.. well... we're still checking with the theologians in Econe on this. I'll try to let you know what they say next week.
Now, for your penance, say 5 Our fathers and 5 Hail Mary's.... and before I give you abosulution, do your children attend or are you contributing to the SSPX school ?
Penitent: Yes Father
Father: How much?...or how many children?
You see... the District Superior is having a contest and the winner gets to go to Econe for a week.
Penitent: 5 children Father.
Father: Okay, good. Let me write that down.
(Gives absolution, while the "Act of Confession" is being prayed)
Go my son and pray for me.
Penitent: I will Father...
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Tell me... how is going on SOSSAVEOURSSPX a mortal sin?
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...while the "Act of Confession" is being prayed
I'm unfamiliar with that one. :scratchchin:
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...while the "Act of Confession" is being prayed
I'm unfamiliar with that one. :scratchchin:
Yeah... sorry, I was sleepy :sleep:
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...while the "Act of Confession" is being prayed
I'm unfamiliar with that one. :scratchchin:
Yeah... sorry, I was sleepy :sleep:
Reminds me of the time when I confessed to an old timer priest who had gone
Novus Ordo. He recognized my traddiness, and at the end of the confession he
told me to "pray the Confiteor." That caught me so much by surprise, I hemmed
and hawed and couldn't remember how it goes, even though I read it at every
Mass. That was a learning experience. Just being caught off-guard made me
unable to remember the prayer. After I had left the Confessional, I could recall
it word for word, in Latin. Strange. :scratchchin:
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Without reading all 13 pages of discussion (and only some of the pages), I am attaching a pdf which discusses what parents are supposed to do regarding their children and school options. It mentions that parents would be in grave sin (if not putting children into a Catholic school) but that was in yesteryear, naturally. Anyway, it is a good read in general.
FWIW, enjoy.
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I'm working on my own souls...and I want to help save other souls too.