Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: soulguard on April 04, 2014, 01:12:54 PM
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The one where he is interviewed in Menzigen.
It goes on for about 40 minutes and is in French.
He makes some good points and does not seem to be a liberal at all.
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Soulguard--
We haven't seen it yet. Hopefully someone will find it and post it in English. Bp. Fellay, of course, will not appear to be liberal. He's like Ratzinger; he's like JPII; he's like Paul VI; he's like John XXIII; he's like Mueller-- and all the rest. The hallmark of a modernist is they tailor their speech to the immediate audience and the objective.
In Fellay's CNS interview, he stated that he accepted Religious Liberty, in a limited degree. When challenged on this in Europe, Fellay exclaimed that "I just said that because I knew it would play well for the American" audience!!
Yet, twelve years before this he had already told Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos that he, Fellay, accepted the Vatican Council!!
Fellay allowed his Bishop (Williamson), and numerous priests to be expelled ( yes--he was behind the expulsions), partly on the stated grounds that they were 'formenting distrust by spreading rumours of an impending deal or agreement'. The party line was there was no agreement. [b]Yet, these expulsions occurred on almost the very days and during the very weeks in which Fellay delivered his side of the AGREEMENT to Cardinal Mueller!!!
[/b] This AGREEMENT, which has become known as the AFD (for April Fifteenth Declaration), gave away to Rome the entire boat of traditionalism-- and basically told Rome that traditionalists have been wrong for 40 years, that the Archbishop was wrong,and that Fellay and Co. fully supported the Vatican Council and all the actions of the VC popes. In the accompanying "private letter" of the agreement, Fellay even promised to move mountains to get the whole of the SSPX in line with his profession of faith in Ratzinger and the Vatican Council II.
This is one, deluded, confused, deceptive modernist. And the way the head goes, so go his minions. Bishop Fellay has yet to stand up and apologize to the expelled priests (Fathers Chazal, Pfeiffer, Hewko, etc, etc, etc times 100), apologized for the horrific treatment he gave Bishop Williamson, and announced to Rome and all the world that his April Fifteenth Declaration was either a fraud, a mistake or a lie. Because, just like the accompanying letter Ratzinger attached to his "lifting" of the excommunications, this AFD was designed to placate the Cardinals and Bishops and convince them that "even though we have to sometimes say things that SOUND very traditional and Catholic, be sure our hearts and souls are with you ( heretics) in Rome."
For Bp. Fellay to give a well-rehearsed and scripted interview which plays to the traditionalists is like the cute blond taking a swig of cola after a work out-- the marketing people have determined that those images and those words sell. Until They reverse all the damage they have done the past 15 years, and restore the priests to their rightful positions, and remove the superiors ( like Rostand) who pressure, deceive, and spy upon the faithful in Fellay's name, Fellay is nothing more than a wolf, seeking to devour, if possible, even the elect.
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Soulguard--
We haven't seen it yet. Hopefully someone will find it and post it in English. Bp. Fellay, of course, will not appear to be liberal. He's like Ratzinger; he's like JPII; he's like Paul VI; he's like John XXIII; he's like Mueller-- and all the rest. The hallmark of a modernist is they tailor their speech to the immediate audience and the objective.
In Fellay's CNS interview, he stated that he accepted Religious Liberty, in a limited degree. When challenged on this in Europe, Fellay exclaimed that "I just said that because I knew it would play well for the American" audience!!
Yet, twelve years before this he had already told Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos that he, Fellay, accepted the Vatican Council!!
Fellay allowed his Bishop (Williamson), and numerous priests to be expelled ( yes--he was behind the expulsions), partly on the stated grounds that they were 'formenting distrust by spreading rumours of an impending deal or agreement'. The party line was there was no agreement. [b]Yet, these expulsions occurred on almost the very days and during the very weeks in which Fellay delivered his side of the AGREEMENT to Cardinal Mueller!!!
[/b] This AGREEMENT, which has become known as the AFD (for April Fifteenth Declaration), gave away to Rome the entire boat of traditionalism-- and basically told Rome that traditionalists have been wrong for 40 years, that the Archbishop was wrong,and that Fellay and Co. fully supported the Vatican Council and all the actions of the VC popes. In the accompanying "private letter" of the agreement, Fellay even promised to move mountains to get the whole of the SSPX in line with his profession of faith in Ratzinger and the Vatican Council II.
This is one, deluded, confused, deceptive modernist. And the way the head goes, so go his minions. Bishop Fellay has yet to stand up and apologize to the expelled priests (Fathers Chazal, Pfeiffer, Hewko, etc, etc, etc times 100), apologized for the horrific treatment he gave Bishop Williamson, and announced to Rome and all the world that his April Fifteenth Declaration was either a fraud, a mistake or a lie. Because, just like the accompanying letter Ratzinger attached to his "lifting" of the excommunications, this AFD was designed to placate the Cardinals and Bishops and convince them that "even though we have to sometimes say things that SOUND very traditional and Catholic, be sure our hearts and souls are with you ( heretics) in Rome."
For Bp. Fellay to give a well-rehearsed and scripted interview which plays to the traditionalists is like the cute blond taking a swig of cola after a work out-- the marketing people have determined that those images and those words sell. Until They reverse all the damage they have done the past 15 years, and restore the priests to their rightful positions, and remove the superiors ( like Rostand) who pressure, deceive, and spy upon the faithful in Fellay's name, Fellay is nothing more than a wolf, seeking to devour, if possible, even the elect.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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I have noticed that sometimes Fellay will say things that seem liberal and other times he will say things that seem traditional. It is weird. For example one day he said the Jєωs are out "elder brothers" and another day he said the Jєωs are "enemies of the faith".
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I have noticed that sometimes Fellay will say things that seem liberal and other times he will say things that seem traditional. It is weird. For example one day he said the Jєωs are out "elder brothers" and another day he said the Jєωs are "enemies of the faith".
on Pope Francis - 14 Oct 2013
“We have in front of us a genuine Modernist!”
4 Dec 2013
I used the word “modernist;” I think that it was not understood by everybody. Perhaps I should have said a modernist in his actions. Once again, he is not a modernist in the absolute, theoretical sense: a man who develops a whole coherent system; that coherence does not exist.
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:facepalm:
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I have noticed that sometimes Fellay will say things that seem liberal and other times he will say things that seem traditional. It is weird. For example one day he said the Jєωs are out "elder brothers" and another day he said the Jєωs are "enemies of the faith".
on Pope Francis - 14 Oct 2013
“We have in front of us a genuine Modernist!”
4 Dec 2013
I used the word “modernist;” I think that it was not understood by everybody. Perhaps I should have said a modernist in his actions. Once again, he is not a modernist in the absolute, theoretical sense: a man who develops a whole coherent system; that coherence does not exist.
This is good. There's more.
"Things are back to their starting point. The relationship with Rome cannot be repaired within this Pontificate." (Bishop Fellay in Australia, Sept. 2012 - as related by faithful who attended his talk)
+F is on record having said this kind of thing in many venues, like the Econe ordinations, June 29th, 2012, and attested to by Fr. Couture in "An Appeal to our Korean Faithful," Sept. 8th, 2012.
Even so, La Stampa, ("Vatican Insider") on Sat. Oct. 27th, 2012 has: "Lefebvrians need more time before they can respond to the Vatican's offer of reconciliation, and the Holy See seems willing to concede it. A statement issued today by the Pontifical Commission 'Ecclesia Dei' ... stated that last Sept. 6th, the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X asked for 'additional time for reflection and study' in order to prepare its response to the Holy See's reconciliation proposal. ... Last week, Lefebrian leaders announced the exclusion of Msgr. Richard Williamson, ... [who] had been on a collision course with SSPX leaders because of his refusal to make any compromise whatsoever with Rome and because he had asked Fellay to resign... Williamson's expulsion, which the Holy See was very much in favour of..."
To understand the import of these statements, above, it must be realized that the Rebranding project was going on long before the AFD was produced in April of 2012, and therefore, the AFD had to have been an outgrowth of this Rebranding project.
This (Sept. 2012) was the same time that Fr. Wegner explained to Fr. Girouard (October 2012), that Menzingen had been paying a Dutch Rebranding firm something near $100,000 or maybe more, to a pagan company, to tell the Society what to do to improve their image and get more customers (that means faithful). Why would the SSPX have spent all that money and made all the Rebranding changes, if now "things are back to its starting point?" Does that mean all the Rebranding money was wasted, and that it's time to UNDO all the stupid Rebranding changes, which would include the abominable AFD?
Furthermore, at this same time, October 2012, Bishop Alfonso de Galarreta spoke at Villepreux, France, hinting that there could be negotiable principles that the SSPX would be willing to relinquish for the purpose of making an accord with the Modernists in Rome. "If there is not firstly a return on the part of Rome or of the next Pope to Tradition [...] but if this Pope wishes simply to allow Tradition, what are the conditions that would allow us to accept a canonical normalization, in view of the good that we could do in the Church and this good is considerable? We must not deny this possibility." It would seem he may have been cowed into this attitude under the threat of expulsion, as +W was being made into an EXAMPLE of what happens to SSPX bishops who can't tow the line.
IOW: we must not deny the possibility that the SSPX leadership is willing to give up something ("conditions" and bishops and priests and faithful) in order to get something ("normalization" -- the spirit of the world). The fact that the word "conditions" could mean giving up heretofore immutable principles lies in the fact that half of "The Six Conditions" of the General Chapter were called suitable, or wishable or non-essential, or "negotiable."
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:facepalm:
Whats your problem stgnonbait?
If you think the conciliar church is the Catholic church then you must join it. You have no choice.
+Fellay did not say anything modernist in the interview. I know I got 3 thumbs down for posting this thread but it seems i broke an unwritten rule of this forum that +Fellay is to be attacked constantly and nothing good is to be posted about him.
I see no evidence that he is a modernist and also say that if you think the pope is the pope then you must put yourself in communion with him, if not then go SV. If the society went SV I would follow them, but until they do that or else reconcile with Rome then I go with the soceity.
I go with the soceity to get the true mass. But the indult also provide the true mass. If it were not for the new rite of ordination I would perhaps go to the indult. It is the same mass. The only difference is the extra confiteor before communion which the SSPX added to the mass, but which is not in the mass. But as a pious exercise it does no harm.
Dont critisise me from your anonymous shadow stgnobait and refuse to answer questions or PMs when I send them to you. The SSPX is acting like a cult, when it should be trying to evangelize. If you think that this resistance can just act like a select members club and still survive than youre wrong. The Catholic church grew from 11 apostles because it was open to converts. The mass was never "invite only". If you have an invite only mass then it is not a Catholic mass, simple as. The church is not a club for the elites. It is for everybody.
:smoke-pot:
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:confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:
:facepalm:
Whats your problem stgnonbait?
If you think the conciliar church is the Catholic church then you must join it. You have no choice.
+Fellay did not say anything modernist in the interview. I know I got 3 thumbs down for posting this thread but it seems i broke an unwritten rule of this forum that +Fellay is to be attacked constantly and nothing good is to be posted about him.
I see no evidence that he is a modernist and also say that if you think the pope is the pope then you must put yourself in communion with him, if not then go SV. If the society went SV I would follow them, but until they do that or else reconcile with Rome then I go with the soceity.
I go with the soceity to get the true mass. But the indult also provide the true mass. If it were not for the new rite of ordination I would perhaps go to the indult. It is the same mass. The only difference is the extra confiteor before communion which the SSPX added to the mass, but which is not in the mass. But as a pious exercise it does no harm.
Dont critisise me from your anonymous shadow stgnobait and refuse to answer questions or PMs when I send them to you. The SSPX is acting like a cult, when it should be trying to evangelize. If you think that this resistance can just act like a select members club and still survive than youre wrong. The Catholic church grew from 11 apostles because it was open to converts. The mass was never "invite only". If you have an invite only mass then it is not a Catholic mass, simple as. The church is not a club for the elites. It is for everybody.
:smoke-pot:
Don't worry soulguard, we are halfway there, Lent is almost over.
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:confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:
:facepalm:
Whats your problem stgnonbait?
If you think the conciliar church is the Catholic church then you must join it. You have no choice.
+Fellay did not say anything modernist in the interview. I know I got 3 thumbs down for posting this thread but it seems i broke an unwritten rule of this forum that +Fellay is to be attacked constantly and nothing good is to be posted about him.
I see no evidence that he is a modernist and also say that if you think the pope is the pope then you must put yourself in communion with him, if not then go SV. If the society went SV I would follow them, but until they do that or else reconcile with Rome then I go with the soceity.
I go with the soceity to get the true mass. But the indult also provide the true mass. If it were not for the new rite of ordination I would perhaps go to the indult. It is the same mass. The only difference is the extra confiteor before communion which the SSPX added to the mass, but which is not in the mass. But as a pious exercise it does no harm.
Dont critisise me from your anonymous shadow stgnobait and refuse to answer questions or PMs when I send them to you. The SSPX is acting like a cult, when it should be trying to evangelize. If you think that this resistance can just act like a select members club and still survive than youre wrong. The Catholic church grew from 11 apostles because it was open to converts. The mass was never "invite only". If you have an invite only mass then it is not a Catholic mass, simple as. The church is not a club for the elites. It is for everybody.
:smoke-pot:
Don't worry soulguard, we are halfway there, Lent is almost over.
Whats that supposed to mean?
You need to explain yourself or risk making an enemy on this forum.
Thanks for the thumbs down btw.
Are we not allowed ask questions on this forum or what?
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The problem here is the development of a cult mentality.
People like neil obstat whom you endorse like to say that outside the resistance there is no salvation. And yet at the same time you think the conciliar popes are popes.
You need some concrete foundations and you dont have them. All you have is the personality cult of fr pfeiffer who is a nutcase.
They might teach the true faith, but so do others, and so do many in the novus ordo.
You dont seem to want to acknowledge the facts. All you want is you cult with people from the sspx. You handpick people to go to your masses. You want a cult, not the Catholic church.
Dont kid yourself and say that this is about the faith. I dont buy that explination.
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and you come across as a bully who wants to know where i go to Mass............ naw, dont think so.
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and you come across as a bully who wants to know where i go to Mass............ naw, dont think so.
Dont care where you go to mass, but if you are ever in Athlone, how about you talk your shyte to my face and see if i will accept it. I tolerate you people so i can get the sacraments, but dont think you will spread your confusion to me. I know my faith.
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Bishop Fellay is neither liberal, modernist or anything of that sort. He is a traditional Catholic bishop who will neither sign a premature canonical agreement with the Roman authorities nor refuse one when Heaven's time for it is right.
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Dear soulguard,
Whats your problem stgnonbait?
I can see two problems : one, you come across as very, very confused, and two, you speak too much.
If you think the conciliar church is the Catholic church then you must join it. You have no choice.
Please read the 1974 declaration of +ABL. He makes a distinction between Catholic Rome and Conciliar Rome. The new SSPX no longer stands behind +ABL, since it is now trying hard to explain away +ABL's position in this matter. Do you think the SSPX has been wrong (for the last 40-50 years) because they separated themselves from Conciliar Rome ?
+Fellay did not say anything modernist in the interview. I know I got 3 thumbs down for posting this thread but it seems i broke an unwritten rule of this forum that +Fellay is to be attacked constantly and nothing good is to be posted about him.
I see no evidence that he is a modernist ..
You do not understand how modernism works. Modernists do not proclaim modernism 100% of the time. They are like cameleons, sometimes they look and sound Traditional, sometimes they are very modernist, whatever suits the situation. You could also point out some positive things about the Conciliar Popes (even though it gets harder all the time), but by doing so, you are only a distraction, you are running the danger of minimizing or even ignoring the poison. Step back and look at the big picture !
I .. say that if you think the pope is the pope then you must put yourself in communion with him, if not then go SV.
Again, you do not understand who or what the (old) SSPX is communion with and who or what it refuses communion with. As +ABL said, the Catholic Church is incompatible with the Conciliar Church. Try and see that distinction and everything else will make sense.
If the society went SV I would follow them, but until they do that or else reconcile with Rome then I go with the soceity.
These are two opposite positions, SV or back to Rome. Are you saying you would happily go either way, whichever way the SSPX leads you ? Isn't that a cultish spirit ? Will you blindly follow the SSPX ?
I go with the soceity to get the true mass. But the indult also provide the true mass. If it were not for the new rite of ordination I would perhaps go to the indult. It is the same mass. The only difference is the extra confiteor before communion which the SSPX added to the mass, but which is not in the mass. But as a pious exercise it does no harm.
Are you saying that you just want the 'smells and bells' ? That is not a very sound way of reasoning, is it ? I thought +ABL made it very clear that we are NOT just fighting for the 'smells and bells', or just for the Latin Mass. We are fighting against modernism. The attack on the Latin Mass is only ONE of the symptoms of this underlying modernism, it is NOT the problem itself !
Dont critisise me from your anonymous shadow stgnobait and refuse to answer questions or PMs when I send them to you. The SSPX is acting like a cult, when it should be trying to evangelize. If you think that this resistance can just act like a select members club and still survive than youre wrong. The Catholic church grew from 11 apostles because it was open to converts. The mass was never "invite only". If you have an invite only mass then it is not a Catholic mass, simple as. The church is not a club for the elites. It is for everybody.
:smoke-pot:
Are you accusing the SSPX of acting like a cult, or the Resistance, or both ? In our Parish, we sent a public invitation for the Resistance Mass and conference to anyone we could think of, including the priests. Nothing is private, the Mass and conference were held in a public place, every one was/is welcome. If it seems to you that you were excluded, maybe there could be other reasons (you ?), and you should certainly not make a generalization like that.
I do agree that the new SSPX is becoming more like a cult, where the cult leader is to be blindly obeyed, and where thinking outside the party line is no longer tolerated. Is that your position also, or are you talking here about the Resistance ? Your answer is so confusing..
And lastly, in times of confusion, you would do better not to talk or write so much. Take some time out and do a bit of praying and thinking.
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I tolerate you people so i can get the sacraments, but dont think you will spread your confusion to me. I know my faith.
I know of no requirement stating you must belong to internet forums in order to receive Sacraments. I am pretty sure you can quit this forum and still receive them. There is no need for you to continue to "tolerate" us, or what you perceive to be a "cult". It is as easy as stepping away from your computer. Feel free to test the truth of this.
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:facepalm:
The mass was never "invite only". If you have an invite only mass then it is not a Catholic mass, simple as. The church is not a club for the elites. It is for everybody.
:smoke-pot:
You keep saying this, and time and time again, this has been proven to be entirely bogus. There's a calendar where you can find where the resistance masses will be offered, and go if you please. They even have the time and the address where it will be held. I don't know why you keep accusing the resistance of being all secretive and "invite only." IT IS NOT A SECRET, AND YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE INVITED!
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The problem here is the development of a cult mentality.
People like neil obstat whom you endorse like to say that outside the resistance there is no salvation. And yet at the same time you think the conciliar popes are popes.
You need some concrete foundations and you dont have them. All you have is the personality cult of fr pfeiffer who is a nutcase.
They might teach the true faith, but so do others, and so do many in the novus ordo.
You dont seem to want to acknowledge the facts. All you want is you cult with people from the sspx. You handpick people to go to your masses. You want a cult, not the Catholic church.
Dont kid yourself and say that this is about the faith. I dont buy that explination.
Hey, you know, the SSPX is sounding more and more cultish every day. A cult follows one person. And who do people in the SSPX seem to look at as their "great leader?" Um, Bishop Fellay.
I don't follow Fr. Pfeiffer, or Bishop Williamson. I follow the FAITH. Granted, there are even some issues I disagree with them on, but they don't deny tenants of the Faith! If they ever get to that point, and begin to deviate or compromise, then I wouldn't be a member of the resistance anymore. Father Bolduc (RIP) taught us that if he ever said anything against the Faith, to please let him know, or leave. It's not about personalities in the resistance. It's about the Faith. In the SSPX, it's about personality, "grace of state" and "acceptance" by the novus ordo. NO THANKS! That's not what I'm looking for. I want the Faith!
All you have is the personality cult of fr pfeiffer who is a nutcase.
:stare: :roll-laugh1:
God love Father Pfeiffer, but you've never MET Fr. Pfeiffer if you think that this is a reason people follow the Resistance.
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:facepalm:
The mass was never "invite only". If you have an invite only mass then it is not a Catholic mass, simple as. The church is not a club for the elites. It is for everybody.
:smoke-pot:
You keep saying this, and time and time again, this has been proven to be entirely bogus. There's a calendar where you can find where the resistance masses will be offered, and go if you please. They even have the time and the address where it will be held. I don't know why you keep accusing the resistance of being all secretive and "invite only." IT IS NOT A SECRET, AND YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE INVITED!
The resistance in my country is invite only. That is a fact you people like to deny, I think I have found your corkscrew.
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:facepalm:
The mass was never "invite only". If you have an invite only mass then it is not a Catholic mass, simple as. The church is not a club for the elites. It is for everybody.
:smoke-pot:
You keep saying this, and time and time again, this has been proven to be entirely bogus. There's a calendar where you can find where the resistance masses will be offered, and go if you please. They even have the time and the address where it will be held. I don't know why you keep accusing the resistance of being all secretive and "invite only." IT IS NOT A SECRET, AND YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE INVITED!
The resistance in my country is invite only. That is a fact you people like to deny, I think I have found your corkscrew.
I've heard something similar about Resistance Masses in England; invites are done via emails and phone calls.
Plus there seems to be a great deal of unrest and distrust amongst the Resistance. I'm told Bp. Williamson is refusing to say Masses for them and some are acusing Fr. A. of being a double agent!
It seems to echo what s2srea wrote not so long ago about the Resistance unrest and infighting in the US: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Resistance-Reports-of-infighting-by-priests-laity-bishop-Is-it-doomed
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:facepalm:
The mass was never "invite only". If you have an invite only mass then it is not a Catholic mass, simple as. The church is not a club for the elites. It is for everybody.
You keep saying this, and time and time again, this has been proven to be entirely bogus. There's a calendar where you can find where the resistance masses will be offered, and go if you please. They even have the time and the address where it will be held. I don't know why you keep accusing the resistance of being all secretive and "invite only." IT IS NOT A SECRET, AND YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE INVITED!
The resistance in my country is invite only. That is a fact you people like to deny, I think I have found your corkscrew.
I've heard something similar about Resistance Masses in England; invites are done via emails and phone calls.
That's funny.
http://www.therecusant.com/resistance-mass-centres
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:facepalm:
The mass was never "invite only". If you have an invite only mass then it is not a Catholic mass, simple as. The church is not a club for the elites. It is for everybody.
You keep saying this, and time and time again, this has been proven to be entirely bogus. There's a calendar where you can find where the resistance masses will be offered, and go if you please. They even have the time and the address where it will be held. I don't know why you keep accusing the resistance of being all secretive and "invite only." IT IS NOT A SECRET, AND YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE INVITED!
The resistance in my country is invite only. That is a fact you people like to deny, I think I have found your corkscrew.
I've heard something similar about Resistance Masses in England; invites are done via emails and phone calls.
That's funny.
http://www.therecusant.com/resistance-mass-centres
You can deny all you want, and pure IDIOTS can thumbs up you and all the other resistance cult members, but I dare you to find a website showing the resistance mass centers in Ireland.
There is none.
Why?
BECAUSE YOU KEEP IT A SECRET.
YOU HAND PICK PEOPLE TO GO TO YOUR MASSES.
I am RIGHT.
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soulguard?
Had it occurred to you that there might not be a resistance priest in Ireland, which would explain why Father Pfeiffer goes there very infrequently because of the expense?
I don't know, why don't you try calling Fr. Pfeiffer about this, and see if HE knows where the resistance masses are in Ireland??
Here's a thread PUBLICIZING where Fr. Pfeiffer was having mass last year. Secret, eh? NO!
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Fr-Joseph-Pfeiffer-to-visit-Ireland-2