Author Topic: Green-lighting the SSPX not smart either (Read 3790 times)

Matthew · « **on:** February 06, 2015, 09:44:49 AM »

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Definition-of-Accordista-Yellow-Light-Red-Light-etc

There is nothing wrong with the non-Pfeiffer parts of the resistance. Setting up Mass locations outside the aegis of the SSPX isn't exactly schismatic.

Just remember, a priest saying Mass in a garage for 10 people has EVERY BIT AS MUCH RIGHT as a priest in St. Mary's Kansas, saying Mass in a large, decorated chapel for 500 people. Both of them avail themselves of supplied jurisdiction. Both of them have no canonical standing in the Church. Both of them are obedient to the Faith, and apparently disobedient to the current Church authorities.

If you only avoid those SSPX priests/chapels that have truly begun to change or go liberal, you should be fine. There's nothing wrong with attending a valid Tridentine Mass when you have no other options.

If your SSPX chapel isn't 100% kosher (pardon the expression), you NEED TO BE LOOKING FOR AN ALTERNATIVE especially if you have children. You don't want a softness towards Vatican II to develop in your mind, or that of your children. Otherwise you're halfway back to the Novus Ordo.

Being as the SSPX is objectively becoming liberal, softening on Vatican II, etc. and there is plenty of hard evidence for this in the past and present (who knows what will happen in the future? I don't.), one must adopt a "yellow light" or cautious, stance towards them. Some chapels and priests must be avoided, to avoid becoming part of a cult. There are issues besides "validity" when choosing a Mass to attend every Sunday. What if it's a valid Tridentine Mass, but in a cult milieu? What if the priest is preaching the new SSPX doctrine, with the hopes of bringing the Faithful with them on their Broad Path March towards liberalism and Modernism?

If you're not WORKING FOR, PRAYING FOR, SUPPORTING, and DOING YOUR HONEST BEST to get Mass alternatives in your area (if you don't have them), then shame on you!!! Such people are GREEN-LIGHTING the SSPX which is as wrong as red-lighting it.

There is a clear trend in the SSPX to modernize and soften on Vatican II. Stevie Wonder could see it. If you don't prepare for a disaster that is so clearly coming, you are responsible for what happens (namely, "FSSP Mass or nothing" in your area). You'll be one of those who can only attend a watered-down Indult, with "no other options in my area".

Well, NOW is the time to support your local resistance! Make plans about where you will go WHEN the SSPX sells out the rest of the way.

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2015, 09:51:46 AM »

If there are no alternatives in your area, now is the time to begin fervently supporting the Resistance in your area. You have to support them NOW with your attendance and your tithe, if you want them to develop.

Where are you going to go once the SSPX makes a deal with Rome? Don't kid yourself. It's coming.

I understand that the budding Resistance chapels aren't going to be able to offer weekly Mass for a while. That's why you get them started now, and continue to attend your SSPX chapel on the other weeks. But it's very important that you attend Resistance-affiliated Masses when you get a chance, as a matter of priority or preference.

In my opinion, getting a Mass alternative established is a higher cause than serving Mass at your SSPX chapel, or having your children serve at such a chapel.

The previous District Superior, Fr. Rostand, was transferred back to France because he was so obvious and non-subtle in his behavior. He gave the SSPX a huge public relations black eye. In a way, he was a huge blessing for the Resistance since he was so "obvious" and outrageous. Well, Fr. Wegner is going to be more subtle. But the goal of both is 100% the same.

You will only have yourself to blame if, two years from now, you have to choose between FSSP or nothing. You will kick yourself EVERY SUNDAY that you didn't help the Resistance develop in your area when you had a chance.

Just like you'll be sorry if you ignored all the "alternative news" types and kept your life savings in the bank -- then the dollar crashes or a huge bank holiday happens. The banks open, and the dollar is re-valued or a Bail-In takes place (like in Cyprus, where people lost 41% of their deposits).

In the world of Being Prepared, it's better to be 5 years early than 1 day late.

Green Scapular · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2015, 10:27:29 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

The previous District Superior, Fr. Rostand, was transferred back to France because he was so obvious and non-subtle in his behavior. He gave the SSPX a huge public relations black eye. In a way, he was a huge blessing for the Resistance since he was so "obvious" and outrageous.

My impression is that the opposite is true. Has he not been put in charge of Communications for the whole SSPX?. If he was seen as a "huge PR black eye", it would not make any sense that he be given that position.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2015, 11:57:37 PM »

Matt:

Quote

Just remember, a priest saying Mass in a garage for 10 people has EVERY BIT AS MUCH RIGHT as a priest in St. Mary's Kansas, saying Mass in a large, decorated chapel for 500 people. Both of them avail themselves of supplied jurisdiction.

Exactly.

jhfromsf68 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2015, 08:37:32 PM »

My question to this post would be, how would you know the difference between a SSPX chapel that is green light and one that is red light? Are their warning signs to look for?

I assume all sspx chapels say the same tridentine liturgy so not attending your local sspx chapel wouldn't be based on liturgical abuses taking place there.

If it is based on the Priest being a compromiser and wanting a agreement with Rome , how do you find that out besides asking him? And how much doctrine is actually being compromised at SSPX chapels in the U.S? Is there some objective way of finding this out?

Thanks!
James

Green Scapular · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2015, 09:59:35 PM »

Quote from: jhfromsf68

My question to this post would be, how would you know the difference between a SSPX chapel that is green light and one that is red light? Are their warning signs to look for?

I assume all sspx chapels say the same tridentine liturgy so not attending your local sspx chapel wouldn't be based on liturgical abuses taking place there.

If it is based on the Priest being a compromiser and wanting a agreement with Rome , how do you find that out besides asking him? And how much doctrine is actually being compromised at SSPX chapels in the U.S? Is there some objective way of finding this out?

Thanks!
James

It seems to come down to each person judging each priest, on the presumption that the individual's ideas on what is "doctrinal" versus what is "prudential" is infallible.

SoldierOfChrist · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2015, 10:44:10 PM »

After seeing divine mercy cards at our chapel this morning, I have become aware of the urgency in establishing resistance centers throughout the country and giving them more financial support. Who can I talk to about coordinating with the resistance? I don't want to go SSPV. I want the SSPX as Archbishop Lefebvre had it. Don't get me wrong, I knew that this day would come. I just didn't think it would be this soon. I left the chapel today very disappointed. I couldn't believe that I could be standing in an SSPX chapel, having a conversation, and see divine mercy cards over the shoulder of the person I was speaking to. This is unacceptable and we need to mobilize. If it was just me, I could sit through the Masses from Sunday to Sunday, watching as things ventured more and more towards liberal heresy, until I couldn't stand it anymore, and then leave. But since I have a family to bring there, I can't have this liberal slide infecting their minds. Please someone PM me and help me to work out a plan. I don't want to give my personal info in the open forums. Thanks

SoldierOfChrist · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2015, 11:33:09 PM »

Quote from: Green Scapular

Quote from: SoldierOfChrist
After seeing divine mercy cards at our chapel this morning, I have become aware of the urgency in establishing resistance centers throughout the country and giving them more financial support. Who can I talk to about coordinating with the resistance? I don't want to go SSPV. I want the SSPX as Archbishop Lefebvre had it. Don't get me wrong, I knew that this day would come. I just didn't think it would be this soon. I left the chapel today very disappointed. I couldn't believe that I could be standing in an SSPX chapel, having a conversation, and see divine mercy cards over the shoulder of the person I was speaking to. This is unacceptable and we need to mobilize. If it was just me, I could sit through the Masses from Sunday to Sunday, watching as things ventured more and more towards liberal heresy, until I couldn't stand it anymore, and then leave. But since I have a family to bring there, I can't have this liberal slide infecting their minds. Please someone PM me and help me to work out a plan. I don't want to give my personal info in the open forums. Thanks

Before you get so upset, did you consider that it was most likely a pious little old lady who misguidedly put that stack of cards there, and not the priest? Maybe you should have asked the priest before assuming he approved those cards being there. Call him tomorrow.

And you shouldn't assume that I don't have more information than what I gave you, before I came to that conclusion.

SoldierOfChrist · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2015, 01:37:52 AM »

Quote from: Green Scapular

So you deliberately chose to withhold pertinent parts of the story? To what purpose?

It should seem obvious. I have no desire to give information which would help to identify myself, my chapel, nor my pastor. You don't need to know the specifics in order to provide advice on finding a resistance chapel (which you've demonstrated you're incapable of doing anyway). Who do you think you are, a district attorney? "So you deliberately chose to withhold pertinent parts of the story?" Lol. Seriously. You been watching too much Law and Order or something?

Francisco · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2015, 02:12:50 AM »

Quote from: SoldierOfChrist

After seeing divine mercy cards at our chapel this morning, I have become aware of the urgency in establishing resistance centers throughout the country and giving them more financial support. Who can I talk to about coordinating with the resistance? I don't want to go SSPV. I want the SSPX as Archbishop Lefebvre had it. Don't get me wrong, I knew that this day would come. I just didn't think it would be this soon. I left the chapel today very disappointed. I couldn't believe that I could be standing in an SSPX chapel, having a conversation, and see divine mercy cards over the shoulder of the person I was speaking to. This is unacceptable and we need to mobilize. If it was just me, I could sit through the Masses from Sunday to Sunday, watching as things ventured more and more towards liberal heresy, until I couldn't stand it anymore, and then leave. But since I have a family to bring there, I can't have this liberal slide infecting their minds. Please someone PM me and help me to work out a plan. I don't want to give my personal info in the open forums. Thanks

No harm in giving the SSPV a try .... IMO.....

jhfromsf68 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2015, 04:14:44 AM »

I would agree there is no harm in going to an SSPV mass if one is available to you. They don't require the laity to embrace sedevacantism as a theological certainty and they don't mention the subject in their sermons.

The same supplied jurisdiction that covers the SSPX also is in effect for the SSPV.

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2015, 08:15:43 AM »

Just about every single traditional chapel we've attended (both sspx and independent) has one or more "pious old ladies" who leave information like divine mercy cards in the vestibule or social hall, etc. I and others just gather them up and discard, with the thanks of the priest.
I presume you have other indications of concern, SoC, other than the d.m. cards. Sounds like this is your straw/camel's back moment.

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2015, 08:17:54 AM »

Quote from: jhfromsf68

My question to this post would be, how would you know the difference between a SSPX chapel that is green light and one that is red light? Are their warning signs to look for?

I assume all sspx chapels say the same tridentine liturgy so not attending your local sspx chapel wouldn't be based on liturgical abuses taking place there.

If it is based on the Priest being a compromiser and wanting a agreement with Rome , how do you find that out besides asking him? And how much doctrine is actually being compromised at SSPX chapels in the U.S? Is there some objective way of finding this out?

Thanks!
James

1) When the priest from the pulpit tells you not to go on the internet or read about the Resistance.

2) When the priest tells the congregation from the pulpit that you are not allowed to go to any non-SSPX chapel or priest for Mass or the other Sacraments.

3) When the priest refuses to go the bedside of a dying fallen away Catholic who has requested a confession and Last Rites only because they do not attend the chapel.

4) When the priest tells you from the pulpit that you must obey him and the Society.

5) When the priest begins to troll on this website and others and confronting parishioners to see if they are members of this forum or the resistance.

6) When the sermons suddenly change from "Novus Ordo is dangerous to your faith" to absolute silence on the matter or "Novus Ordo is like junk food---it's not the best choice, but it is still food."

7) When the priest tells the congregation from the pulpit that "we might have to accept an agreement, but we will not have clown Masses or anything like that."

Does that help?

And yes, this happened in my chapel. And yes, we left without a second glance.

SoldierOfChrist · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2015, 09:16:42 AM »

Yeah I think we'll check out SSPV, but still interested in helping the resistance. It seems SSPX priests are more concerned with Fatima. Isn't that the case?

MaterDominici · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2015, 10:43:30 AM »

Have you asked around ever to see if there are any other Resistance people in your area? Are you able to host a Mass at your home or otherwise provide a location?