Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Matthew on August 16, 2013, 01:54:24 AM
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He pointed out that even if he and his group failed, that God would have to raise up someone else to do it, because it's something that needs to be done.
In other words, he's doing what he has to do, not necessarily because he thinks he will prevail.
Someone has to stand up for the Faith, pure and undefiled. Tradition is nothing less than the Catholic Faith. And it's a fact that the SSPX (formerly the largest and most influential champion of Tradition) is compromising with modernism, including the new teaching that the Novus Ordo Missae was legitimately promulgated. That is serious.
There is so much substance there to criticize. Speaking of which, he made another killer point:
The neo-SSPX liberals never dare attack anything the Resistance is doing on doctrine. Why not? Why not point out where we err; where we deviate from the Catholic Faith? They never do. Why? They can't. All they can do is imitate the priests and bishops after Vatican II: "Obey! Because I'm the authority and I said so!"
What is Catholic and what is not is a simple question of doctrine. The Novus Ordo is bad in terms of doctrine; compromising with it is bad in terms of doctrine.
He augmented my fervor for the resistance, as well as improved my clarity of thought.
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If doctrine is now negotiable, the Society is left with creating the best expression of superficial tradition it can; one which leaves the modern mind in awe, yet leaves it unclear as to substance and meaning. This was the convenient solution for those who hungered after the Latin Mass and glimpses of the good old days and could be described as Sunday tourism. Experience has shown that tourism of this kind is big business so long as it does not enter the dangerous waters of revivalism and restoration that the Society once proposed. Even Rome was realising this before conciliar purists demurred.
Those independent bodies and scattered parishes within the remnant are resisting the mainstream just as earnestly as the Society once did and its dissidents continue to do. While the SSPX leadership is big on organisation and centralism to get its way, the remnant may only survive by structuring itself horizontally to avoid the negative aspects of hierarchy and encourage leadership at a low level. In this way doctrine has a better chance of being preserved and handed down somewhere. Bp. W and Fr. P may have different ideas but their example could inspire more dynamic priests and laity to follow suit.
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He augmented my fervor for the resistance, as well as improved my clarity of thought.
Now move to the next step and stop assisting at neo-SSPX Masses.
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How is this justification any different than the Old Catholics or the Eastern Orthodox church?
If the resistance split into the "pretend resistance" and the "real resistance", which it already shows signs of doing. Who would be standing up for the Faith, "pure and undefiled"?
If someone was hyperfocused on modesty for example in the middle ages, then Puritans or Anabaptists might have seemed more "pure and undefiled", than Catholic priests and Bishops with mistresses and Catholic Royalty with their boobs on display. How does a person judge this objectively?
I'm still not convinced that the resistance are resisting anything other than a figment of their imagination or, more precisely, a lot of old grips and vendettas and human politick between priests. The SSPX did not do a deal with Rome. They rejected it. So what exactly is being resisted?
It does not make any sense to me that God would allow ABL to spearhead Tradition with the SSPX, make it a relative success for 25 years and then allow +Fellay to destroy it, or have it absorbed by the Borg of Rome, to the point where only a TINY fraction of Trads who had made huge efforts to keep their faith could actually attend a "pure and undefiled" mass.
I think the resistance just like resisting stuff because it makes them feel "special".
But even if you are right and the "resistance" are really the only Catholic Church which is "pure and undefiled" left, then what is someone like me to do? Sell my house? Move my children half way across Britain to attend a "pure and undefiled" mass? Tell them and my wife to just "make new friends". I am lucky that I could at least keep my job.
Only to find that the resistance priest in Covertry or Norwich or wherever he decides to re-locate himself then suddenly moves locations because some dead widow has left him a nice house and a chapel in Surrey?
Traditionalist zealots already did this with the Transalpine Redemptorists, moving to Sheppy, then France, then the Outer Hebrides and shot themselves in the foot. St. Mary's Kansas has similar stories of disaster by families who put hope before reason.
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He augmented my fervor for the resistance, as well as improved my clarity of thought.
Now move to the next step and stop assisting at neo-SSPX Masses.
I firmly believe that those who remain attending at Church of Bishop Fellay chapels will continue to do so. At this stage there are resistance chapels in every District so the people must state which side they are on. There are resistance chapels.For example when I am in England again, I will avail of the sacraments at Mass in Earlsfield and not up at St Joseph's or at St. George's House. I am sorry it has come to this but that is my decision.
Here in Ireland there is a resistance chapel up North. I don't dispute people will remain on at SSPX chapels but there is an alternative in every District now.
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God would have to raise up someone else to do it, because it's something that needs to be done.
This a key point. It's about the will of God, the faith and doctrine. It has got nothing to do with personalities. God is guiding the holy resistance for certain.
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He augmented my fervor for the resistance, as well as improved my clarity of thought.
I know exactly what you mean. He had that exact same effect on many of us over here.
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I'm still not convinced that the resistance are resisting anything other than a figment of their imagination or, more precisely, a lot of old grips and vendettas and human politick between priests. The SSPX did not do a deal with Rome. They rejected it. So what exactly is being resisted?
Please read the link below and then let me know if you still think the same way.
http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2013/08/04/okay-to-a-canonical-regularization-without-romes-conversion/
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We must never forget that our fight is a fight for the faith; therefore it is a fight at the level of principles which are above obedience.
Those words of Card. Pie should suffice to keep on with the fight without scruples and with all our mind, will, and energies.
Cardinal Pie: "It is in the battle field of doctrine where the battles are won or lost and what decides the future, to wait to fight against the consequences or evil effects of that bad doctrine, it would be already too late to fight".
The SSPX is falling in doctrine; there is no doubt about that. So the Resistance must start NOW! FOR OUR LORD JESUSCHRIST SAKE!
To wait for an agreement with Rome of the SSPX in order to start fighting... that would be already too late.... too late...
Those who undestand the problem and are not resisting the new blasphemous orientation of the SPPX are culpable also of betrayal.
:dwarf:
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We must never forget that our fight is a fight for the faith; therefore it is a fight at the level of principles which are above obedience.
Those words of Card. Pie should suffice to keep on with the fight without scruples and with all our mind, will, and energies.
Cardinal Pie: "It is in the battle field of doctrine where the battles are won or lost and what decides the future, to wait to fight against the consequences or evil effects of that bad doctrine, it would be already too late to fight".
The SSPX is falling in doctrine; there is no doubt about that. So the Resistance must start NOW! FOR OUR LORD JESUSCHRIST SAKE!
To wait for an agreement with Rome of the SSPX in order to start fighting... that would be already too late.... too late...
Those who undestand the problem and are not resisting the new blasphemous orientation of the SPPX are culpable also of betrayal.
:dwarf:
The SSPX HAS ALREADY fallen in doctrine. The first necessary condition established at the 2012 General Chapter is doctrinally unacceptable. Therefore, we cannot assist at their Masses. Read here:
http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2013/08/04/okay-to-a-canonical-regularization-without-romes-conversion/
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:incense: :incense: °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°:scratchchin: :dancing-banana: :furtive: :stare: :tinfoil: :shocked: :confused1: :surprised:
:idea:Pray for Resistance priests to be able to bi-locate. They must become holier, or else we must be holier :thinking:
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Fr. Pfeiffer met with his brother Fr. Tim yesterday. He addresses the meeting in his sermons to be released in the coming days. Stay tuned.
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He augmented my fervor for the resistance, as well as improved my clarity of thought.
Now move to the next step and stop assisting at neo-SSPX Masses.
I firmly believe that those who remain attending at Church of Bishop Fellay chapels will continue to do so.
I believe this to be true also. They are already too far gone and have invested far too much of themselves into The Church of Fellay. They are trapped and the only way to extricate themselves is to figuratively chew off a limb. They don't want to do that so they've become DEADLY serious and protective of +Fellay. I am old enough to remember Jonestown and recall how those zealots protected Jim Jones: by gunning down those who questioned them.
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John,
My friend, when you say there are resistance masses in every district,
It is meaningless-- especially when you use this statement to declare that
Anyone who would support thr resistance has already left the SSPX.
Your notion is not correct. The U S District is over 3,000 miles wide -- that's like what,
4,500 kilometers? Most Germans wouldn't go more than three or four blocks to
Mass-- but you think Californians should all drive 2oo or 300 miles?
The Lord demands weekly attendance at Mass, so you think it's all right that those
In Connecticut have one Mass a month? Or that those in Texas get one Mass every six months?
Fellay and Rostand's lies and intimidations have weakened the
Back bone of once- good priests. And the people now being ordained have absolutely no
mission ( as stated by Fr. LeRoux). So the reinforcements to the Resistance have
been far slower than required. Add in the usual miscommunications, the chronic disorganization of new groundswell movements, and the perennial personality issues, and you have situations where people stay where they are until they knew this resistance will be there for the long haul.
We have buried four long term parishioners in the last two months. Who would have given the last rites and said the funeral Masses ( while the resistance priests were thousands of miles away), had these families burned their bridges with the SSPX?
Many parents have their children in SSPX schools, and are not in a position to home-school. Many of these parents, also, must wait to see how permanent the Resistance becomes beford they risk their children's education. That's why the model that Father Patrick G. Followed in Canada made such good sense. He stopped. He educated his faithful. They learned the issues. They made a commitment. He made a commitment. They have the Mass every Sunday and Holy Day. They have the sacraments. They have something of a Catholic parish. Now, from there they can grow.
This is, if you will, the same model Father Ringrose is following. They have the Mass, the sacraments, a parish life of the Church.
And then, you have the most important problem. When the resistance priests do come
around, they talk of pope francis and pope benedict. One was, according to the Archbishop,
"Not even a Catholic". The other is a communist- inspired liberation theologist. So, of course, barring some secret that only he and Almighty God knows, he's not a Catholic either!
So, you have a resistance that, at it's very core, agrees with Bishop Fellay, Krah, Schmidberger, Lorans, LeRoux, Rostand, Pflugger, Nely, TdM, etc., that these guys
are the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth. Now-- why did the masons vow to control
The very top of the Catholic Church? Why did our Lady warn that Rome would lose the faith? Why did Our Lord wonder if , when He returned, He would find the faith?
Because the masons knew thst when they installed an anti-Christ in the office, gullible Catholics will still follow him , and they will walk themselves into the slaughtering room.
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:pray:Requesting CI prayers. Will try and speak w/Fr. Tim Pfeiffer re: liberalism in doctrinal statement--I will sound very lame as I don't even read Latin, am not a theologian. More convincing perhaps, is the effect on souls, especially for the long-term. Hopefully, will happen about 10:00 ish am, EST in US. :dancing-banana:
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We must never forget that our fight is a fight for the faith; therefore it is a fight at the level of principles which are above obedience.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
This is Stage 6 Morality: A stage that most people never attain. Most people remain in the 4th Stage of Morality---obedience, rule, and law.
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On silencing the SSPX Resistance:
Luke 19: 39 40
(39) And some of the Pharisees, from amongst the multitude, said to him: Master, rebuke thy disciples. (40)To whom he said:
I say to you, that if these shall hold their peace, the stones will cry out.
(http://blogs.baylor.edu/robert_darden/files/2012/12/mummies-ofcjbp.jpg)
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.
He pointed out that even if he and his group failed, that God would have to raise up someone else to do it, because it's something that needs to be done.
In other words, he's doing what he has to do, not necessarily because he thinks he will prevail.
Someone has to stand up for the Faith, pure and undefiled. Tradition is nothing less than the Catholic Faith. And it's a fact that the SSPX (formerly the largest and most influential champion of Tradition) is compromising with modernism, including the new teaching that the Novus Ordo Missae was legitimately promulgated. That is serious.
There is so much substance there to criticize. Speaking of which, he made another killer point:
The neo-SSPX liberals never dare attack anything the Resistance is doing on doctrine. Why not? Why not point out where we err; where we deviate from the Catholic Faith? They never do. Why? They can't. All they can do is imitate the priests and bishops after Vatican II: "Obey! Because I'm the authority and I said so!"
What is Catholic and what is not is a simple question of doctrine. The Novus Ordo is bad in terms of doctrine; compromising with it is bad in terms of doctrine.
He augmented my fervor for the resistance, as well as improved my clarity of thought.
Liberals do not like to even mention doctrine. They don't dare accuse
their opponents on doctrine because they're terrified of being called to
task themselves on doctrine, because they have no basis in doctrine!
They abhor the very topic of doctrine!
In Freemasonic style, and according to the M.R.S. of John XXIII, it
will be henceforth and forever (like the Third Secret of Fatima!) buried
and abandoned.
No More Doctrine!!
He augmented my fervor for the resistance, as well as improved my clarity of thought.
Now move to the next step and stop assisting at neo-SSPX Masses.
I firmly believe that those who remain attending at Church of Bishop Fellay chapels will continue to do so.
I believe this to be true also. They are already too far gone and have invested far too much of themselves into The Church of Fellay. They are trapped and the only way to extricate themselves is to figuratively chew off a limb. They don't want to do that so they've become DEADLY serious and protective of +Fellay. I am old enough to remember Jonestown and recall how those zealots protected Jim Jones: by gunning down those who questioned them.
I know a key figure who represents a lot of Accordistas, and this
is an apt description - the committedness is untouchable. It has
become set in stone. You cannot get through to them on
principle, and any attempt to address doctrine is met with the
accusation "You're just anti-Fellay!" -and, "We support +Fellay,
not YOUR FRIEND +WILLIAMSON!"
"Poor, misguided people!"
(The quote is from The Great One Himself, when he was ostensibly
referring to the Resistance, but, in true Liberal form, when he hurls
epithets at his opposition, he tends to rather use language that is
far better descriptive of his own followers!)
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And it's a fact that the SSPX (formerly the largest and most influential champion of Tradition) is compromising with modernism, including the new teaching that the Novus Ordo Missae was legitimately promulgated. That is serious.
The neo-SSPX liberals never dare attack anything the Resistance is doing on doctrine
I have yet to hear this matter addressed DIRECTLY by any priest of the SSPX. All of the responses fall into three categories.
1. Eloquent, even erudite excuses, and explanations of why it is not outright heresy. (Yesterday, I heard an excellent argument for why the statement can be "minimally tolerated without sin.". If a priest can live it, why not a layperson?)
2. Illogical arguments based upon personal dislike of the personalities, defects, and personal sins of the various Resistance priests.
3. Once, I was told to cease questioning under vague threat of refusal of Absolution and Holy Communion. (The priest is too tenderhearted to banish me on the basis of intellectual disagreement.)
It has not been satisfactorily explained how the new doctrinal statement(s) of the SSPX helps me attain Heaven. It has not been satisfactorily explained how the new doctrinal statement(s) of the SSPX fail to hinder souls from Heaven.
A year has come and gone. Meanwhile, life on earth proceeds. Now is the time of salvation.
For myself, I have decided that I will no longer actively pursue the matter with the neo-SSPX. If and when my questions can be answered, I'll listen. In the meantime, I shall look to the Resistance who are strictly adhering to the Tradition of the Church for spiritual guidance.
I can still go to the SSPX for Confession, last-rites, perhaps the occasional Mass...for now. It is very sad that the SSPX, for me, has become akin to a walk-in medical clinic, the place I go in a medical urgency because life circuŠ¼stances preclude access to routine medical care. If I want to save my soul, it is up to me to study the doctrine and apply it as best I can. The condition of the world is such that I cannot rely on the Church to do Her part any more that I can rely upon the ministrations of a trusted physician to stay healthy. I have to keep reminding myself that God does not demand the impossible.
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John,
My friend, when you say there are resistance masses in every district,
It is meaningless-- especially when you use this statement to declare that
Anyone who would support thr resistance has already left the SSPX.
Your notion is not correct. The U S District is over 3,000 miles wide -- that's like what,
4,500 kilometers? Most Germans wouldn't go more than three or four blocks to
Mass-- but you think Californians should all drive 2oo or 300 miles?
The Lord demands weekly attendance at Mass, so you think it's all right that those
In Connecticut have one Mass a month? Or that those in Texas get one Mass every six months?
You speak for many...........not all have made the move yet.........for the very reasons you state.
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That's why the model that Father Patrick G. Followed in Canada made such good sense. He stopped. He educated his faithful. They learned the issues. They made a commitment. He made a commitment. They have the Mass every Sunday and Holy Day. They have the sacraments. They have something of a Catholic parish. Now, from there they can grow.
Many more of us would leave in a heartbeat if we had this option. How blessed they are!
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This is amazing.
Now all we need is 6 more threads and the entire forum can be
in utter chaos:
1) Great point Fr. Pfeiffer made Wednesday
2) Great point Fr. Pfeiffer made Thursday
3) Great point Fr. Pfeiffer made Friday
4) Great point Fr. Pfeiffer made Saturday
5) Great point Fr. Pfeiffer made Sunday
6) Great point Fr. Pfeiffer made Monday
Then nobody will know which week it was, which month it was,
which year it was or what the topic even was, only that Fr.
Pfeiffer made another great point on a different day of the week!
Alleluia!!
I've never felt so informed and secure all at once!! :clown: