So far I know of:Our Lady of Sorrows in Phoenix, Arizona has a freestanding altar but it looks better than the ones previously mentioned
The Immaculata
St. Peregrine
Have freestanding "altars" (an antiquarian backdoor for tables in the Modernist trickbook).
Who is behind this push and when did this start? Interesting that both of these instances are after Pagliarani took the reins from +Fellay as Superior General. Are other megachapels remodeling in this mold that anyone knows of?
Econe:So NO!
http://beingcreativesuzette.blogspot.com/2012/07/new-altar-in-econe.html?m=1
New Altar in Ecône [2012](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tVIExT0fHZQ/UBECmEzTHFI/AAAAAAAAAUo/3IYmq99F1zs/s280/Lucy's+summer+pics+2012+008.JPG) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tVIExT0fHZQ/UBECmEzTHFI/AAAAAAAAAUo/3IYmq99F1zs/s1600/Lucy's+summer+pics+2012+008.JPG)“It is a replica of an altar in a basilica in Assisi. All the pillars are different. It would be interesting to see if there is a meaning behind that or if it is just artistic expression. “
Our Lady of Sorrows in Phoenix, Arizona has a freestanding altar but it looks better than the ones previously mentionedWhat an ugly chapel.
So far I know of:Didn't St. Peregrine just -- as in two days ago -- have it's altar consecrated? It's possible that they've yet to add more elements because it looks unfinished. (https://imgur.com/a/MHjFC8K)
The Immaculata
St. Peregrine
Have freestanding "altars" (an antiquarian backdoor for tables in the Modernist trickbook).
Who is behind this push and when did this start? Interesting that both of these instances are after Pagliarani took the reins from +Fellay as Superior General. Are other megachapels remodeling in this mold that anyone knows of?
District of asia:
(https://i.imgur.com/fDJSn2l.png)
Guadalajara, mexico, sspx priory:
(https://i.imgur.com/RiRwWgA.jpg)
While the Tokyo priory has nothing:
(https://i.imgur.com/Oq7CgzD.jpg)
What is wrong with this church? It looks not bad, though the walls can be made more beautiful.
I think he's pointing out the freestanding altar phenomenon.That doesn't seem like the typical Novus Ordo freestanding altar. I can make out the tabernacle and altar gradine. I've seen churches built long before V2 having such altars and the ability to walk behind the altar, which will usually lead to the sacristy. In this picture the sanctuary looks like it has a semicircle shape, thus having space behind the altar, therefore I don't see anything wrong with it.
(https://scontent-hou1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/278886600_1374026869780165_7309203821499189844_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=RQ2BmEgS1LgAX-2hhPv&_nc_ht=scontent-hou1-1.xx&oh=00_AT9JR-xQBcjMbb5HuJEcavhbbpbcavqDZV6ovSgk4BUYGA&oe=627EB087)What is their explanation for that "crucifix"?
(https://scontent-hou1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/278917460_1374026529780199_6665392357982925784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sHOVYMLr60cAX8Kf10X&_nc_ht=scontent-hou1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8l_bc5VokB41nFtLIZ12rPTxbSLov-UNH3-hddp_r-Yw&oe=627FCC4F)
St. Peregrine's
This is not an SSPX church. I believe this is the Manila Cathedral.You are correct. Thank you for the correction.
While the Tokyo priory has nothing:
(https://i.imgur.com/Oq7CgzD.jpg)
What is their explanation for that "crucifix"?From the facebook page:
From the facebook page:
"On Good Friday, during the Adoration of the Holy Cross, we unveiled and installed our crucifix over the high altar. The custom crucifix is modeled after the earliest crucifixes which depicted our Lord as King reigning over Heaven and earth. His face was created from a 3D printing of the Shroud of Turin."
Menzingen will spend $70 million for a trophy seminary near DC or $40 million for a monument Church in St. Mary’s podunk…My thoughts, exactly.
But rent a respectable mission chapel site in Japan to catechize a country of lost souls? Never!
That doesn't seem like the typical Novus Ordo freestanding altar. I can make out the tabernacle and altar gradine. I've seen churches built long before V2 having such altars and the ability to walk behind the altar, which will usually lead to the sacristy. In this picture the sanctuary looks like it has a semicircle shape, thus having space behind the altar, therefore I don't see anything wrong with it.
Hmm, I've never seen those.
Will Christ still be on the Cross as He reigns as King over Heaven and earth? That sounds like the resurrection crosses they have in the Novus Ordo.
Menzingen will spend $70 million for a trophy seminary near DC or $40 million for a monument Church in St. Mary’s podunk…
But rent a respectable mission chapel site in Japan to catechize a country of lost souls? Never!
But it's curious that most of the newly-built SSPX chapels follow that same format, given the fact that the Novus Ordo Luther Table has given that layout of the sanctuary a bad name.My take is that the new-sspx leadership is mostly from Europe and these new chapels give them the opportunity to a) mix-n-match european architecture styles as part of a pet-project of creativity, which is why a "budget" typically isn't followed, b) inflate their european egos, which typically looks down on all things american, c) control the people by introducing non-american but european liturgical "norms" (i.e. norms from the 1930s-50s, when europe was far, far more liberalized than america) and prepare them for the indult.
I wonder, wonder, IF any of those millions were from Rome?
Hmm, I've never seen those.
Will Christ still be on the Cross as He reigns as King over Heaven and earth? That sounds like the resurrection crosses they have in the Novus Ordo.
I don't think there's a liturgical rule, but switching things "just because" is petty and wrong, imo. The liturgical norms of a country are important; not everything should be european style.
While always claiming independence, the SSPX will be absorbed by Rome and function as a consiliar highChurch.
I knew the Cristo Rey crucifix existed WAY before the Novus Ordo, though I haven't immediately found a history of it. The picture below is from St. Joseph's Church on Capital Hill in Seattle. The parish was established in 1907 and the current church built in 1930, dedicated to Christ the King. My parents were married there in 1950, I and my siblings were baptized there, my maternal grandparents and several other maternal relatives have been buried from this church. I'm sorry I haven't found more of a close up (I hope to take a trip to Seattle in September and will try and take one) but behind the High Altar is a large mosaic of Christ the King flanked by St. Ignatius Loyola and St. Francis Xavier. Below the image of Christ the King and above the tabernacle is a Cristo Rey crucifix. At one time there was a large and very traditional crucifix that hung on the side wall on the epistle side.
(https://i.imgur.com/vjSBGqp.png)
My take is that the new-sspx leadership is mostly from Europe and these new chapels give them the opportunity to a) mix-n-match european architecture styles as part of a pet-project of creativity, which is why a "budget" typically isn't followed, b) inflate their european egos, which typically looks down on all things american, c) control the people by introducing non-american but european liturgical "norms" (i.e. norms from the 1930s-50s, when europe was far, far more liberalized than america) and prepare them for the indult.
I've seen sspx chapels do the stations of the cross starting on the right hand (epistle) side and finishing on the left. This must be european because i've always seen it start on the left/gospel side and finish on the right. I don't think there's a liturgical rule, but switching things "just because" is petty and wrong, imo. The liturgical norms of a country are important; not everything should be european style.
Menzingen will spend $70 million for a trophy seminary near DC or $40 million for a monument Church in St. Mary’s podunk…Unfortunately Japan does not have as many Catholics to minister to, while the US district has many more faithful and I might add, better-off financially overall. I think it makes sense to start prudently.
But rent a respectable mission chapel site in Japan to catechize a country of lost souls? Never!
You will know them by their altars. :laugh1:
But seriously, it makes one wonder where the apparent windfall of money to build these new chapels is coming from. In Virginia alone, there is the seminary (with more construction to be done on the main chapel) and the D.C. and Front Royal missions have plans for new construction. The D.C. mission had acquired a former protestant church and significant renovations have been completed but apparently, "they" want to build a new chapel from scratch on the property as well.
In a presentation on the seminary that Fr. Haynos gave to our chapel, he cited an "internal loan from Menzingen" as the source of funding for the seminary projects. Alas, it must be from those mysterious "generous benefactors".
If one uses common sense and reasoning, it is more likely some form of payback for being obedient to the Bergoglian regime: no condemnation of the NWO Plandemic, capitulation to the novus ordo covid restrictions, neutrality on the clot shot, falling all over themselves about Francis' stunt consecration, etc., etc. Either that, or the hierarchy has been infiltrated and they truly think all those decisions were good ones.
Well, …
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I disagree, and gave to Mark79 links with articles saying that different stages of of a baby, such as 3 months in womb were best for harvesting and he still said it was ok!
Unfortunately Japan does not have as many Catholics to minister to, while the US district has many more faithful and I might add, better-off financially overall. I think it makes sense to start prudently.$70/$40 million is prudent??
Don Pagliarani did mention that the SSPX chapels grew tremendously during the last 2 years as many Novus Ordo and Indult folks sought refuge when the diocesan churches were closed, even at locations where the governments did not force them to do so.That does not explain the tens of millions of dollars being pumped into these new mega churches, some of which had been under construction or planned before the "pandemic". You just can't raise that amount of money in a couple of years, even if you double the amount of faithful attending a chapel.
I think it boils down to where the priest comes from. American SSPX priests based in other countries are also known to introduce certain customs peculiar to the States.This is ridiculous as well. As they say, when in rome...
The narrative that the sspx chapels were different during the lockdowns as promoted on their website, as somehow remaining open, was a stretch. We had no Mass, including during Easter, they removed the holy water, restricted the amount of people, roped off pews, posted signs saying masks were required, etc.Some chapels were not this extreme. Probably depended on how much each priest believed covid. And also depended on how liberal the state was.
The narrative that the sspx chapels were different during the lockdowns as promoted on their website, as somehow remaining open, was a stretch. We had no Mass, including during Easter, they removed the holy water, restricted the amount of people, roped off pews, posted signs saying masks were required, etc. How is that different from the local NO church?
Dallas sspx bought land to build.
Hope it doesn't turn into a horrible place like others shown in this thread.
Yeah, their new buildings are half Novus Ordo - half Traditional at best. I still don't understand why they're building like gangbusters. There just HAS to be some notion of an imminent regularization and then an influx of new "parishioners". Nothing else makes sense.
As I've said before, historically the mentality of Traditional Catholics has always been that this situation in the Church is highly abnormal and will eventually be fixed by God. At that point, the buildings stolen by the Conciliar usurpers will be restored to use by Tradition. But it's as if this whole Conciliar thing is being accepted as a "new normal" by the SSPX. Why build a church in any of these areas that probably already have dozens of churches that are much nicer than what they're building ... many of which cannot be reproduced at any price today due to lack of skilled artisants?
Nice thought, however, we have to live in the now. We might not even see the restoration of the buildings during our lifetime. Even sedevacantist groups build new buildings, there's nothing strange about that. Some older buildings at certain locations may be even more expensive to repair and maintain, especially if they have not been in use for some time.$70/$40 million goes a LONG way towards renovation/repair.
Nice thought, however, we have to live in the now. We might not even see the restoration of the buildings during our lifetime. Even sedevacantist groups build new buildings, there's nothing strange about that. Some older buildings at certain locations may be even more expensive to repair and maintain, especially if they have not been in use for some time.
Nice thought, however, we have to live in the now. We might not even see the restoration of the buildings during our lifetime. Even sedevacantist groups build new buildings, there's nothing strange about that. Some older buildings at certain locations may be even more expensive to repair and maintain, especially if they have not been in use for some time.
Unfortunately Japan does not have as many Catholics to minister to, while the US district has many more faithful and I might add, better-off financially overall. I it makes sense to start prudently.
You will know them by their altars. :laugh1:
But seriously, it makes one wonder where the apparent windfall of money to build these new chapels is coming from. In Virginia alone, there is the seminary (with more construction to be done on the main chapel) and the D.C. and Front Royal missions have plans for new construction. The D.C. mission had acquired a former protestant church and significant renovations have been completed but apparently, "they" want to build a new chapel from scratch on the property as well.
In a presentation on the seminary that Fr. Haynos gave to our chapel, he cited an "internal loan from Menzingen" as the source of funding for the seminary projects. Alas, it must be from those mysterious "generous benefactors".
If one uses common sense and reasoning, it is more likely some form of payback for being obedient to the Bergoglian regime: no condemnation of the NWO Plandemic, capitulation to the novus ordo covid restrictions, neutrality on the clot shot, falling all over themselves about Francis' stunt consecration, etc., etc. Either that, or the hierarchy has been infiltrated and they truly think all those decisions were good ones.
In a missionary sense, it is ripe for re-development.Yes. Having lived in Japan, I can attest that the people there are ripe for conversion. Besides their natural virtues, they have the seriousness and discipline to become very good traditional Catholics.
Front Royal? Besides Christendom College, who's there? Perhaps to draw whatever Christendom people could be persuaded to go SSPX?Right, Christendom is still very conservative NO and, in my opinion, openly anti-tradition, but it's not those folks who are attending the sspx chapel. There was a large contingent who left the Motu Mass at St. John's in town and other locations in the Arlington diocese when bishop shut down Mass and then forbade attending the outdoor Masses that Fr. Reuter had organized. Bishop Burbidge published a statement in which he called the sspx schismatic. That backfired on him.
I don't know what it's like there now, but back in the day, Christendom was as "conservative Novus Ordo" as you can imagine.
Right, Christendom is still very conservative NO and, in my opinion, openly anti-tradition, but it's not those folks who are attending the sspx chapel. There was a large contingent who left the Motu Mass at St. John's in town and other locations in the Arlington diocese when bishop shut down Mass and then forbade attending the outdoor Masses that Fr. Reuter had organized. Bishop Burbidge published a statement in which he called the sspx schismatic. That backfired on him.I didn't know anything about that. I'll read the article (got it pulled up right here, https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/gratitude-where-gratitude-is-due-my-familys-story-with-the-society-of-st-pius-x/ (https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/gratitude-where-gratitude-is-due-my-familys-story-with-the-society-of-st-pius-x/) ).
So, apparently many who left the motu remained with the sspx and then they have acquired even more people after Francis' TC.
Maike Hickson wrote a story about it on Lifesite News.
From bits and pieces I have put together, I have gathered --- and I could be totally wrong --- that traditionalists at Christendom are "allowed to be what they are", and I would assume, in recent years, have attended the diocesan TLM in Front Royal. I don't know what it was like before the indult, but I would assume the mentality was "the Novus Ordo fell down from heaven, and we have to see the great good in it, and quit thinking about a form of Mass that the Church doesn't want us to be thinking about anymore". Or something like that.Being a traditional Catholic at Christendom will put an unfavorable label on you for sure, especially if you are female and refuse to wear pants. It's truly ironic, as they consider themselves "traditional" and have a dress code. Their version of tradition starts with Vatican II and for them, John Paul II was the greatest pope in the history of the Church. The president, Dr. O'Donnell, has many connections with "important" people in Rome. For example, the keynote speaker at their graduation this year will be Cardinal Sarah.
Being a traditional Catholic at Christendom will put an unfavorable label on you for sure, especially if you are female and refuse to wear pants. It's truly ironic, as they consider themselves "traditional" and have a dress code. Their version of tradition starts with Vatican II and for them, John Paul II was the greatest pope in the history of the Church. The president, Dr. O'Donnell, has many connections with "important" people in Rome. For example, the keynote speaker at their graduation this year will be Cardinal Sarah.
A few years back, the college chaplain at the time was favorable to the TLM and was offering it a couple times during the week. Of course, that Mass became popular and there was growing interest and requests to have a Sunday TLM option. The president struck that down with the excuse that they only wanted to have one Sunday Mass so that the whole community could worship together, even though he himself attended Sunday Mass at his nearby home parish. Consequently, the tradition minded students went to the motu mass at St. John's in town, thereby dividing the "community" aspect he was trying to convey. And the chaplain was transferred prematurely to the Dominican Republic. Problem solved.
As for St. John's, the tradition minded priest was sent out to pasture after it was discovered that he was separating the novus ordo from the tlm hosts in the tabernacle.
The bottom line is that Christendom is in lockstep with apostate Rome. They have a multimillion-dollar new church to pay for too!
(https://i.imgur.com/EOWp6gD.png)
Yes. Having lived in Japan, I can attest that the people there are ripe for conversion. Besides their natural virtues, they have the seriousness and discipline to become very good traditional Catholics.
Yes. Having lived in Japan, I can attest that the people there are ripe for conversion. Besides their natural virtues, they have the seriousness and discipline to become very good traditional Catholics.
"Well, I continue to ponder, who gave $$ to make a freestanding altar for Our Lady of Sorrows? Our Lady of Sorrows, does she not still have mortgage to pay? Hm? Did she close her doors during the covid time? Hm? How about an award$$ received, related to the covid? Didn't Our Lady of Sorrows also say yes to a 5G Tower near in the area to help off set costs? Or was that 5G tower on their property?"
One of my sons is the OLOS prior.
The OLOS altar (and for that matter the church) were built with donations and borrowing, including mortgages. There are still debts to be paid, but they're making good progress.
Father McFarland advises that OLOS was never closed during "covid time." Its masses were streamed to places where the churches were closed. So much for Songbird's "award$$ received, related to the covid".
When permission is given to install a 5G tower on someone's property, the owner of the property gets paid for its use. If OLOS did so, it would hardly be surprising for a church with debts to pay.