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Author Topic: GIRM Compatible SSPX Chapels  (Read 11615 times)

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Re: GIRM Compatible SSPX Chapels
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2022, 02:49:45 PM »
Nice thought, however, we have to live in the now. We might not even see the restoration of the buildings during our lifetime. Even sedevacantist groups build new buildings, there's nothing strange about that. Some older buildings at certain locations may be even more expensive to repair and maintain, especially if they have not been in use for some time.

There's no doubt that the SSPX could simply have built additions to the existing Winona seminary, and saved many millions, but for various reasons, it preferred not to:

1) The ghost of Bishop Williamson haunts those halls, and the SSPX was eager to signal a new formation by building a new edifice for an altogether new (branded) formation (which would be more agreeable to Rome, and therefore conducive to "reconciliation").

2) By relocating to be near the Masonic capital of the world, the SSPX also telegraphed it was ready to come to terms with DeepChurch: All the reasons the Society formerly adduced as benefits to the central location in Winona, its relative isolation, proximity to airports, and vast acreage were suddenly forgotten, and now was touted the cultural benefits of being near Washington DC!  What was once perceived as an enemy Masonic stronghold was now "culturally beneficial").  Soon it would be subservient to that Masonic government, closing its chapels upon order and even accepting its death jab (which +Vigano has noted is a kind of indelible mark like a baptism into the NWO).

See this long-forgotten article adducing the reasons and benefits of moving to Virginia, and see if you are convinced by the sincerity of the reasons contained therein:

https://www.winonapost.com/news/seminary-says-goodbye/article_6ebdbcb0-2213-513b-83a7-7baaefd5e9b2.html 

3) Although the 2012 deal had fallen through, SSPX leadership was still resolved (perhaps more than ever) to achieve a practical accord, and the thought was that along with reconciliation would come vocations.  Lots of them.  Bishop Fellay had fallen victim to the same siren song as Dom Gerard, Bishop Rifan, and many others before him, who believed that regularization would open to the SSPX a huge field for the apostolate.

Yes, perhaps, but as noted by Dom Laurenco Fleichman in an open letter printed in The Angelus, rebuking the priests of Campos:

"When your Fraternity was conducting the current negotiations, I spoke to Fr. Fernando (Rifan) on the phone. He gave me three reasons that he considered sufficient for going ahead and concluding the agreement, even though the Vatican has not agreed to allow the Tridentine Mass: 1) many new persons would rejoin Tradition; 2) we would have a foot in the door of modernist Rome for preaching Tradition; 3) we could still go back to our former position in case we were unduly pressured.

These are precisely the same arguments as those of Dom Gerard in 1988; to me, shockingly so. Firstly, because then you knew how to critique Dom Gerard's position, as was so necessary at the time. Second, because today the logical conclusion you are obliged to reach is that Dom Gerard was right! He preceded you by ten years, which obliges you to believe that his assessment then was better than yours.

I think that the following affirmations are undeniable: 1) The new people that will join you will not desire to convert to true Tradition. They will come to you because the legal obstacles have been removed, and not for reasons of faith. They will be very sympathetic, but they will not be seeking the whole truth with the doctrinal conviction that leads souls to martyrdom; 2) Being in modernist Rome‑and this is proven‑invariably results in contamination by the guiding principles of Vatican II, administered in homeopathic doses until the fruit falls, as the St. Peter's Fraternity fell; 3) As for going back: who among them has ever returned to his former position? They would rather concelebrate with the Pope than go back. And if they did go back, what would become of the faithful in their parishes? Would they all go back? How many would be entangled over the question of legality? I consider such an attitude reckless; it does not take into account the constancy of the souls that Providence has entrusted to you. You regularize on paper a phony problem of excommunication, and the faithful have only to follow and obey, and then, tomorrow, to about face and retreat with you!

I cannot quite see in this the respect for souls the priestly life requires."

https://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X/Open_Letter_to_the_Priests_of_Campos.htm

And is this not precisely what has transpired with the SSPX?  People coming to them because BXVI allowed the TLM, and/or because Francis granted faculties for confessions and/or marriages (i.e., they have come because the legal obstacles have been removed, and not for reasons of faith)?

Leaving aside other considerations, such as Lefebvre's rebuke to Dom Gerard that it is the superiors who form the inferiors, and not the other way around, and other quotes regarding the dilution such an influx of conservatives would represent to the quality of the faith preached and received in the Society, Lefebvre also noted the impossible situation which would arise in seminaries attracting two opposite types os seminarian: One that is pro-Rome, and one that is anti-modernist.  And in fact this did happen in the seminary.  But the Society found a solution for this too: A purge of the Williamsonites, and of resistance priests from the Society.  Quite a price to pay!  "We have rediscovered our profound unity" indeed!

Those measures, combined with the new strategy of Francis to regularize by location and incrementally seemed to have succeeded to some degree in opening to the Society the wider apostolate it yearned for. 

But whether the trade-off (quantity for quality) was worth it is debatable to say the least.

These in any case were some of the reasons for the new seminary. 


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: GIRM Compatible SSPX Chapels
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2022, 03:27:46 PM »
I'm guessing that SSPX might see a 10% increase in their numbers, mostly people from Motu Masses and FSSP chapels.

But there's ALREADY a Trad-Conciliar version of the SSPX in some places (like in the US) ... the FSSP.  Millions of people did not flock to FSSP.

90% of those who sit in the pews at the Conciliar Church will not put up with a longer Mass that requires kneeling, or driving longer to get there.  Period.  They're lazy and want Mass over with as quickly as possible.  Nor are they interested in Traditional moral teaching.

There were people I've talked to who had some interest in the Tridentine Mass but then ended up not going because it would have been like a 10-minute longer drive.  I kid you not.

This isn't about the smells and bells, SSPX, but about the faith, and the faith is in a near-universal state of decay (even to a large extent among Trad Catholics).  And they're doing nothing to keep their faithful shielded from the harmful effects of this widespread apostasy.  In fact, they're slowly injecting Modernism into their own theology.

Instead of pretending as though you're going to convert the entire Conciliar Church, how bout you take care of the faithful who are currently entrusted to your care? 

They're misreading the parable of the lost sheep.  That shepherd would not leave the flock to go search for a single lost sheep ... WHEN THERE ARE WOLVES prowling around.  There are ravenous wolves everywhere trying to destroy the flock, and they decide they're going to convert the lost sheep but then leave and allow the flock to be ravaged by wolves.

When there's a massive pack of wolves, you take your flock into a barn and close the doors and hunker down.  That's where we're at right now.  We need to circle the wagons and hunker down.  God will lead others into the barn as He chooses, but you don't open the doors and expose the sheep.

This is nearly identical to Montini trying to open the windows of the Church to the world.  In this case, the SSPX wants to open the windows of Traditional Catholicism to the Conciliar Church.


Re: GIRM Compatible SSPX Chapels
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2022, 04:01:50 PM »
Unfortunately Japan does not have as many Catholics to minister to, while the US district has many more faithful and I might add, better-off financially overall. I it makes sense to start prudently.

Trento,

In a business sense, Japan is a bad market for traditional Catholics.

In a missionary sense, it is ripe for re-development.  

St. Francis Xavier personally Baptized between 1.6 ~ 3 million souls while he was in Asia.

Has the SSPX even Baptized 30 Japanese since 1976 ?

Their shamefully low profile in that country only proves:

  • They do not have the missionary spirit.
  • They do not thirst for souls, as does Our Savior.





Re: GIRM Compatible SSPX Chapels
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2022, 04:08:45 PM »
You will know them by their altars. :laugh1:

But seriously, it makes one wonder where the apparent windfall of money to build these new chapels is coming from.  In Virginia alone, there is the seminary (with more construction to be done on the main chapel) and the D.C. and Front Royal missions have plans for new construction.  The D.C. mission had acquired a former protestant church and significant renovations have been completed but apparently, "they" want to build a new chapel from scratch on the property as well.

In a presentation on the seminary that Fr. Haynos gave to our chapel, he cited an "internal loan from Menzingen" as the source of funding for the seminary projects.  Alas, it must be from those mysterious "generous benefactors". 

If one uses common sense and reasoning, it is more likely some form of payback for being obedient to the Bergoglian regime:  no condemnation of the NWO Plandemic, capitulation to the novus ordo covid restrictions, neutrality on the clot shot, falling all over themselves about Francis' stunt consecration, etc., etc.  Either that, or the hierarchy has been infiltrated and they truly think all those decisions were good ones.

Front Royal?  Besides Christendom College, who's there?  Perhaps to draw whatever Christendom people could be persuaded to go SSPX?

I don't know what it's like there now, but back in the day, Christendom was as "conservative Novus Ordo" as you can imagine.

Re: GIRM Compatible SSPX Chapels
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2022, 04:24:24 PM »

Quote
In a missionary sense, it is ripe for re-development. 
Yes. Having lived in Japan, I can attest that the people there are ripe for conversion.  Besides their natural virtues, they have the seriousness and discipline to become very good traditional Catholics.