Author Topic: FSSP to ordain more priests than SSPX (Read 4359 times)

RogerThat · « **on:** May 11, 2016, 08:08:45 PM »

I am usually the last person on this forum to play the dumb "counting game" where one counts the ordinandi of different orders/groups and compares them to previous years. I believe it is deeply uncharitable and fails to take into account the changing factors of the time/seminary/order/group. HOWEVER, these numbers are "statistically significant" and, as a result, deserve to be looked at closely. I stress "statistically significant" because there is a large difference between these two numbers.

First, the FSSP:
Wigratzbad Seminary: 12 priests
Denton Seminary: 12 priests
TOTAL: 24 priests
Source: here

Next, the FSSPX:
Winona Seminary: 7 priests
Econe: 8 priests
Zaitzkofen: 3 priests
La Reja (Argentin): 2 priests
TOTAL: 20 priests

Source: here and here

This is trouble. In the past, the FSSP would ordain an average of 3 seminarians every year. But, this year, 24 have received the grace of the Holy Priesthood.

Counterargument: Yes Roger, this year is lower than all past years but this year more than 26 men received the deaconate and the numbers will change next year. These things change from year to year! No biggie!

Refutation: Yes! Indeed! Thanks be to God for more vocations! However, is it prudent and just to build the largest seminary in North American when the Society is producing this few priests, especially when considering that the Society has almost triple the amount of priories and chapels than the Fraternity?

Nevertheless, let us all pray for the holiness of our priests, that they may perservere through the horrors of the present day and convert the faithful to God!
Sancta Maria, spes nostra, ora pro nobis.

Olive · « **Reply #1 on:** May 11, 2016, 08:26:30 PM »

I believe that there was an error on the part of Rorate Caeli's report. If one goes to the FSSP site, it states that 12 men were raised to the diaconate. Not the priesthood.

Twelve Ordained to the Diaconate by Bishop Andrew Cozzens
Posted:Sat, 12 Mar 2016 17:00:14 +0000
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Bishop Andrew Cozzens, Auxiliary Bishop of MinneapolisOn Saturday, March 12, 2016, the Most Reverend Andrew H. Cozzens, Auxilary Bishop of Minneapolis, Minnesota, traveled to Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Denton, Nebraska, in order to confer the Diaconate upon twelve of our subdeacons:

Adrian Debow
Anthony Dorsa
Joseph Favole-Mihm
Jonathan Heinricy
Charles Ike
Caleb Insco
Caleb Kick
Aaron Liebert
Krzysztof Sanetra
James Smith
Alex Stewart
Matthew Vierno
We express our thanks and gratitude to Bishop Cozzens for his gift of time and willingness to travel to Denton in order to advance these men on the path of the priesthood of Christ.

The process of ordination began on Friday, March 11, as the subdeacons made their Assumption of Celibacy, recited the Profession of Faith, and took the Oath of Fidelity in the presence of the Very Reverend Josef Bisig, Seminary Rector. The next day, Bishop Cozzens ordained them to the Diaconate.

We send our congratulations to the families of the newly ordained Deacons, and thank all of the family and friends that were present to celebrate this joyous occasion with us. The Fraternity asks that all of our supporters please pray for these men during their Diaconal period, and for their pending Ordination in 2017.

Additional coverage of this year’s ordinations will be in an upcoming Newsletter.

Don’t receive the newsletter currently? Sign Up Here

RogerThat · « **Reply #2 on:** May 11, 2016, 08:35:37 PM »

Quote from: Olive

I believe that there was an error on the part of Rorate Caeli's report. If one goes to the FSSP site, it states that 12 men were raised to the diaconate. Not the priesthood.

Twelve Ordained to the Diaconate by Bishop Andrew Cozzens
Posted:Sat, 12 Mar 2016 17:00:14 +0000
Share

Bishop Andrew Cozzens, Auxiliary Bishop of MinneapolisOn Saturday, March 12, 2016, the Most Reverend Andrew H. Cozzens, Auxilary Bishop of Minneapolis, Minnesota, traveled to Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Denton, Nebraska, in order to confer the Diaconate upon twelve of our subdeacons:

Adrian Debow
Anthony Dorsa
Joseph Favole-Mihm
Jonathan Heinricy
Charles Ike
Caleb Insco
Caleb Kick
Aaron Liebert
Krzysztof Sanetra
James Smith
Alex Stewart
Matthew Vierno
We express our thanks and gratitude to Bishop Cozzens for his gift of time and willingness to travel to Denton in order to advance these men on the path of the priesthood of Christ.

The process of ordination began on Friday, March 11, as the subdeacons made their Assumption of Celibacy, recited the Profession of Faith, and took the Oath of Fidelity in the presence of the Very Reverend Josef Bisig, Seminary Rector. The next day, Bishop Cozzens ordained them to the Diaconate.

We send our congratulations to the families of the newly ordained Deacons, and thank all of the family and friends that were present to celebrate this joyous occasion with us. The Fraternity asks that all of our supporters please pray for these men during their Diaconal period, and for their pending Ordination in 2017.

Additional coverage of this year’s ordinations will be in an upcoming Newsletter.

Don’t receive the newsletter currently? Sign Up Here

I am only fluent in French and English and most of the official FSSP correspondance is in German so I do not have any primary sources like I do with the FSSPX citations, unforuntaly.
If this is true, my numbers would be totally off. There were 3 diaconate ordinations for the SSPX this academic year in the USA. Not sure about the FSSP though.

RogerThat · « **Reply #3 on:** May 11, 2016, 08:45:40 PM »

Quote from: Olive

I believe that there was an error on the part of Rorate Caeli's report. If one goes to the FSSP site, it states that 12 men were raised to the diaconate. Not the priesthood.

Twelve Ordained to the Diaconate by Bishop Andrew Cozzens
Posted:Sat, 12 Mar 2016 17:00:14 +0000
Share

Bishop Andrew Cozzens, Auxiliary Bishop of MinneapolisOn Saturday, March 12, 2016, the Most Reverend Andrew H. Cozzens, Auxilary Bishop of Minneapolis, Minnesota, traveled to Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Denton, Nebraska, in order to confer the Diaconate upon twelve of our subdeacons:

Adrian Debow
Anthony Dorsa
Joseph Favole-Mihm
Jonathan Heinricy
Charles Ike
Caleb Insco
Caleb Kick
Aaron Liebert
Krzysztof Sanetra
James Smith
Alex Stewart
Matthew Vierno
We express our thanks and gratitude to Bishop Cozzens for his gift of time and willingness to travel to Denton in order to advance these men on the path of the priesthood of Christ.

The process of ordination began on Friday, March 11, as the subdeacons made their Assumption of Celibacy, recited the Profession of Faith, and took the Oath of Fidelity in the presence of the Very Reverend Josef Bisig, Seminary Rector. The next day, Bishop Cozzens ordained them to the Diaconate.

We send our congratulations to the families of the newly ordained Deacons, and thank all of the family and friends that were present to celebrate this joyous occasion with us. The Fraternity asks that all of our supporters please pray for these men during their Diaconal period, and for their pending Ordination in 2017.

Additional coverage of this year’s ordinations will be in an upcoming Newsletter.

Don’t receive the newsletter currently? Sign Up Here

It looks like they fixed it!
Whelp, there goes 45 minutes of my life I won't get back. And I thought it would be cool to go through DICI and find the numbers but it looks like I didn't check the FSSP sources as closely.
Sorry gang.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** May 11, 2016, 09:07:46 PM »

It's hard to imagine being a traditional seminarian for the FSSP. I mean, these aren't Novus Ordo seminarians. They are at least traditional enough to attend the Tridentine Mass exclusively, and I suppose they look forward to saying that Mass almost exclusively.

But to spend 6 years of your life studying for the priesthood, to give your life to God as a priest to save souls...

...only to be ordained by a Newchurch bishop whose Orders are at least doubtful?

That is hard to imagine.

I can easily imagine the part about being a seminarian, giving one's life to God, etc. -- I've been there. But I looked forward to an ordination by one of the 4 +Lefebvre line bishops. At least I knew that if I was ordained, my ordination would be certainly valid.

Matto · « **Reply #5 on:** May 11, 2016, 09:14:24 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

It's hard to imagine being a traditional seminarian for the FSSP. I mean, these aren't Novus Ordo seminarians. They are at least traditional enough to attend the Tridentine Mass exclusively, and I suppose they look forward to saying that Mass almost exclusively.

But to spend 6 years of your life studying for the priesthood, to give your life to God as a priest to save souls...

...only to be ordained by a Newchurch bishop whose Orders are at least doubtful?

That is hard to imagine.

I can easily imagine the part about being a seminarian, giving one's life to God, etc. -- I've been there. But I looked forward to an ordination by one of the 4 +Lefebvre line bishops. At least I knew that if I was ordained, my ordination would be certainly valid.

I feel bad for Novus Ordo priests and religious and also those in the Ecclesia Dei communities because I don't think their vocations please God, even if they were valid.

Matthew · « **Reply #6 on:** May 11, 2016, 09:18:33 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I feel bad for Novus Ordo priests and religious and also those in the Ecclesia Dei communities because I don't think their vocations please God, even if they were valid.

That's another good point, which I didn't touch on.

These young men give their lives -- to a useless cause. It's true that the Mass provides grace ex opere operato, but still, the FSSP is like the women and children colonists that move into an area after the real men conquer the territory.

It would be like feeling you have a military calling, and joining the military, only to spend your whole career computer programming or something. Kind of a waste of that fighting spirit you thought you had, don't you think?

A compromised, sellout organization like the FSSP which is never going to do any real good for the Church is a lousy place to waste a young man's vocation.

JPaul · « **Reply #7 on:** May 11, 2016, 09:31:34 PM »

Numbers are meaningless, how many will actually be priests? Who would know, and how would one tell without a great deal of research?

Incredulous · « **Reply #8 on:** May 11, 2016, 09:44:36 PM »

Quote from: Truecharity

This little quirk should resolve itself once the SSPX returns to the fold and is in full communion with the Catholic Church.....

I apologize for "Thumbing you down".

I started laughing at your post and my thumb slipped on the mouse.

I hoping you are being facetious. :wink:

songbird · « **Reply #9 on:** May 11, 2016, 09:53:05 PM »

FSSP can not ordain. They are on the same level as New Order. No validity.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #10 on:** May 13, 2016, 04:17:19 AM »

Quote from: songbird

FSSP can not ordain. They are on the same level as New Order. No validity.

I have serious doubts about the validity of the new ordination rite and the consecration formula for bishops, therefore, I only go to priests ordained by the SSPX.

That said, the FSSP could have easily removed this doubt had they had an old formula consecrated bishop ordain their priests, since they do use the old ordination rite. Instead they went out of their way to have ONLY new formula consecrated bishops do the ordination of all their priests.

The FSSP still has some valid priests that came from the SSPX.

Old Cardinal Stickler did consecrate some FSSP priests, however, I remember reading that even he was consecrated in the new formula.