Author Topic: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics  (Read 2153 times)

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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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  • From Gloria TV
    Blowoff, Vatican Allows Easter Rites Prior to the Reform of Pius XII

    The Priestly Fraternity of St Peter has been granted an indult by the Vatican Commission Ecclesia Dei to use the liturgical books for Holy Week as they were until the [failed] reform of Pius XII (+1958). The indult is granted ad experimentum for three years.
     
     The information was published in several of the Fraternity’s US-parish bulletins. Each church of the Fraternity has to request permission from the superiors before taking advantage of the indult. According to rumours, 25 parishes have been granted permission so far.
     
     However, on Good Friday, the prayer for the Jews published by Pope Benedict XVI must be used.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Fanny

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #1 on: March 05, 2018, 08:29:55 AM »
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  • From Gloria TV
    Blowoff, Vatican Allows Easter Rites Prior to the Reform of Pius XII

    The Priestly Fraternity of St Peter has been granted an indult by the Vatican Commission Ecclesia Dei to use the liturgical books for Holy Week as they were until the [failed] reform of Pius XII (+1958). The indult is granted ad experimentum for three years.
     
     The information was published in several of the Fraternity’s US-parish bulletins. Each church of the Fraternity has to request permission from the superiors before taking advantage of the indult. According to rumours, 25 parishes have been granted permission so far.
     
     However, on Good Friday, the prayer for the Jews published by Pope Benedict XVI must be used.

    Granted permission to say mass...
    Sad.
    And always a caveat..


    Offline songbird

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #2 on: March 05, 2018, 08:38:53 AM »
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  • Fssp answers to the Dioceses.  Invalid "priest".   Is there something I am missing?  The enemy is trying to draw people in?

    Offline poche

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 02:23:27 AM »
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  • Granted permission to say mass...
    Sad.
    And always a caveat..
    Why is permission to say mass a bad thing?

    Offline Fanny

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 07:20:32 AM »
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  • Why is permission to say mass a bad thing?
    A priest doesn't need permission to say mass, ever, unless he has been laicised.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 10:42:15 AM »
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  • I'm a little surprised that the FSSP have been given permission to celebrate according to the old books, for Holy Week. 

    Offline PG

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 12:48:28 PM »
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  • This is very interesting news to me.  This has been a top prayer of mine for well over a year now.  However, this prayer was directed at +Williamson and the resistance.  If you do not remember, +Williamson used the old holy week about 2-3 of years ago.  And, I thought that was great idea.  I do not know if he still is using it.  I hope he is.  I can say that I am a bit concerned that the fssp is using this.  Because, the other half of the coin for me represents aside from validity, a denial of legitimacy of the hierarchy outside of Francis.  Being that they are ecclesia dei, that kind of negates what I see as a solution.  It would be great if the fssp could function as a catalyst for good regarding this, but I have my doubts.  This belongs to +Williamson and the resistance as far as I am concerned.  He was the first whom I saw perform this combination(1954 holy week within the context of a 1962 liturgical norm).  And, if you haven't picked up on it yet, trads prefer to time travel rather than mix and match.  Do you remember the critical saying "the liturgy of econe"?  I saw that liturgy as an asset.  Either way, I believe this is the right thing for tradition to do to bridge the gap between vacantists and plenists.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Meg

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #7 on: March 06, 2018, 12:52:02 PM »
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  • This is very interesting news to me.  This has been a top prayer of mine for well over a year now.  However, this prayer was directed at +Williamson and the resistance.  If you do not remember, +Williamson used the old holy week about 2-3 of years ago.  And, I thought that was great idea.  I do not know if he still is using it.  I hope he is.  I can say that I am a bit concerned that the fssp is using this.  Because, the other half of the coin for me represents aside from validity, a denial of legitimacy of the hierarchy outside of Francis.  Being that they are ecclesia dei, that kind of negates what I see as a solution.  It would be great if the fssp could function as a catalyst for good regarding this, but I have my doubts.  This belongs to +Williamson and the resistance as far as I am concerned.  He was the first whom I saw perform this combination(1954 holy week within the context of a 1962 liturgical norm).  And, if you haven't picked up on it yet, trads prefer to time travel rather than mix and match.  Do you remember the critical saying "the liturgy of econe"?  I saw that liturgy as an asset.  Either way, I believe this is the right thing for tradition to do to bridge the gap between vacantists and plenists.  

    Your goal is to bring +W into the sedeplenist camp? 


    Offline PG

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #8 on: March 06, 2018, 01:01:43 PM »
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  • Meg - I don't have to bring him anywhere.  +Williamson is a sedeplenist.  The sspx is sedeplenist.  Ecclesia dei is sedeplenist.  Sedeplenist means they believe the conciliar popes are true popes.  That is all.  It does not mean being under the NO heiarchy.  I am against that as I stated.  The reason I have been praying for +Williamson for this is because one: I believe this is the liturgy we need, two: he got the ball rolling, and three: I support him most.  The goods of the church belong to traditional catholics(the resistance).  I don't pray for the good of vacantists or ecclesia dei.  I pray for the good of the resistance, so we can ascend to a position of strength, and reform from there.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Meg

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #9 on: March 06, 2018, 01:10:16 PM »
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  • Meg - I don't have to bring him anywhere.  +Williamson is a sedeplenist.  The sspx is sedeplenist.  Ecclesia dei is sedeplenist.  Sedeplenist means they believe the conciliar popes are true popes.  That is all.  It does not mean being under the NO heiarchy.  I am against that as I stated.  The reason I have been praying for +Williamson for this is because one: I believe this is the liturgy we need, two: he got the ball rolling, and three: I support him most.  The goods of the church belong to traditional catholics(the resistance).  I don't pray for the good of vacantists or ecclesia dei.  I pray for the good of the resistance, so we can ascend to a position of strength, and reform from there.  

    Nonsense. 

    Offline PG

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #10 on: March 06, 2018, 04:03:47 PM »
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  • Nonsense.
    What do you find so nonsensical about what I have said?  
    Do you not believe bishop williamson used the old holy week without any intention of using the other pre 62 liturgy?  
    Do you not believe the explanation I have provided for the term sedeplenist?
    Do you not believe that I specifically want the resistance to rise to the top in all of traditions squabbles?  
    If not these, then what?
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline Meg

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #11 on: March 06, 2018, 04:09:26 PM »
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  • What do you find so nonsensical about what I have said?  
    Do you not believe bishop williamson used the old holy week without any intention of using the other pre 62 liturgy?  
    Do you not believe the explanation I have provided for the term sedeplenist?
    Do you not believe that I specifically want the resistance to rise to the top in all of traditions squabbles?  
    If not these, then what?
    Bishop Williamson is not a sedeplenist. You seem to want to believe that he is. And I'm not interested in your explanation as to why you believe it. Sedewhatevers cannot be reasoned with. I've been there, done that.

    You want your particular sedewhatever POV to prevail in order to unite the Resistance. You aren't the only one. But that has little chance of happening. 

    Offline PG

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #12 on: March 06, 2018, 04:36:14 PM »
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  • Bishop Williamson is not a sedeplenist. You seem to want to believe that he is. And I'm not interested in your explanation as to why you believe it. Sedewhatevers cannot be reasoned with. I've been there, done that.

    You want your particular sedewhatever POV to prevail in order to unite the Resistance. You aren't the only one. But that has little chance of happening.
    Sedeplenist means that the seat of peter is full.  Sede means seat, and plenist reflects there being plenty there, in the seat.  It means it is full.  How many times have we all heard bishop williamson say he believes that francis is pope?  And, all the past conciliar popes as well.  That means Bishop williamson is a sedeplenist.  The sspx is sedeplenist.  The ecclesia dei is sedeplenist.  They all always have been regardless of their other disagreements.  If such a cleric puts the pope in the canon of their mass, they are a sedeplenist.  If a cleric does not place the pope in the canon of the mass, that means they are a sedevacantist.  Don't let your hatred of me for exposing louis de montfort as the fraud that he is blind you to reality.  Facts are facts.
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Meg

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #13 on: March 06, 2018, 04:45:46 PM »
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  • Sedeplenist means that the seat of peter is full.  Sede means seat, and plenist reflects there being plenty there, in the seat.  It means it is full.  How many times have we all heard bishop williamson say he believes that francis is pope?  And, all the past conciliar popes as well.  That means Bishop williamson is a sedeplenist.  The sspx is sedeplenist.  The ecclesia dei is sedeplenist.  They all always have been regardless of their other disagreements.  If such a cleric puts the pope in the canon of their mass, they are a sedeplenist.  If a cleric does not place the pope in the canon of the mass, that means they are a sedevacantist.  Don't let your hatred of me for exposing louis de montfort as the fraud that he is blind you to reality.  Facts are facts.

    Just because some sedewhatevers use a made-up term called sedeplenism, this doesn't mean that the term has any real meaning, except in the minds of those who profess this POV. The term is meaningless to me. And....I've never heard any Resistance priest or bishop use it at all. Why should they?

    Why would you think that I hate you? That's quite extreme....just because I think that sedewhateverism is wrong. And....where did you get the idea that I hate you because you exposed De Monfort? I barely even looked at your thread or whatever that was on the subject, since I don't really care about it. I'm not a fan of De Montfort anyway, because he over-analyzes everything - especially Marian devotion.

    Offline PG

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    Re: FSSP Granted an Indult to offer the 1958 Holy Week Rubrics
    « Reply #14 on: March 06, 2018, 05:01:17 PM »
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  • Well, I did not make up the term.  However, it is a professional, accurate, and useful term.  It makes discussion of the matter more efficient, so long as the terms are accurate.  And, in this case it is.  Look it up on google.  You will see that I am not the only one who uses it.  I see no negative to its use.  I will continue to use it.
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

     

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