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Author Topic: From Traditio: Hmmm  (Read 4970 times)

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Offline bernadette

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Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2017, 09:20:45 PM »
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  • The SSPX, such as it currently stands, no longer has a mission unless they are regularized by Vatican-II church. As a Vatican-II sedeplenist organization, the "state of necessity" is no longer.
    They recognize Francis to be the pope, recognize current church leaders to be the true hierarchy.
    Francis has extended a welcome hand to them. The table has been prepared for them. Novus ordo "Bishops" are ordering their priests in their dioceses to accept and register any and all SSPX marriages performed in their jurisdictional confines.  
    Even Voris has stfu about them.

    They have hit rock bottom. There is nowhere to go from here unless they are "regularized".  They will unavoidably lose faithful and clergy by whichever of the two ways they proceed.  The cat's out of the bag.
    And yet they will never be regularized...nor do they wish to be.


    Offline bernadette

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #16 on: April 28, 2017, 09:23:46 PM »
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  • The Society no longer has to have a declared mission to continue to exist. If it can maintain a following that likes the state of permanent suspension between the new and old churches and enough mothers' boys to ordain and replace the grumpy reactionaries, the books will be balanced and Sundays will find yet another distinctive body religiously active. Why disturb all this for the sake of a fading Roman nostalgia?

    For her part Rome does not need annoying simulated reminders of the ancien regime unless they can be retired to the margins of acceptability. Prominently occupying one of the Seven Hills did seem rather unlikely.

    I agree this soap opera is out of all proportion to to any historic importance it may possess. But one day we may be lucky and wake up to a rather uneventful merging of clerical interests and the laity will sigh with relief.      
    I do love your comments!


    Offline bernadette

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #17 on: April 28, 2017, 09:27:46 PM »
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  • Especially the 'ancien regime' and the 'seven hills' part!

    Offline AJNC

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #18 on: April 29, 2017, 07:13:43 AM »
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  • MAY 3, 2017 - SOLEMNITY OF ST. JOSEPH, SPOUSE OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY
     DOUBLE FEAST OF THE FIRST CLASS

    Fellay's Sellout to Newchurch Has Been Stymied
     Because Leaders among His Own People Threaten a Walk-out
    From: Peter, the TRADITIO Network's Canadian Correspondent

    Are Bernie Fellay's Neo-SSPX Pews Headed for Walk-outs?
     Fellay's Sellout to the Newchurch of the New Order Has Been Stymied
     Fellay Can't Sign the Doctrinal Docuмent
     Because Leaders among His Own People Threaten a Walk-out
     Not All of the Little Neo-SSPX Flies Are Eager
     To Fly into the Novus Ordo Spider Web
     And What Is This Newchurch to Which Fellay Still Wishes to Fly?
     It Is Moving Quickly from Protestantism to Paganism
    Dear TRADITIO Fathers:
    The Newvatican deceivers are up to their old tricks again. The truth is that the Newchurch's demoted Commission "Ecclesia Dei" proffered that insignificant little doctrinal docuмent for Bernie Fellay to sign. It was nothing, really; it was a mere bagatelle. However, many of the Neo-SSPX Superiors saw through the deception: it was a capitulation for the NSSPX and for the truth of the Catholic Faith. So they threatened a walk-out if he should dare to sign it. If he signs it, they will walk, taking a large part of the NSSPX with them. The Newchurch black widow would then lose half of his meal.
    So, now, Newchurch has told Fellay that major players in Newcuria refuse the personal prelature plum. Newvatican wants to make it look as if it is not the NSSPX refusing the deal, but Newchurch liberals and even Neocon Newchurchers. It is said that Francis-Bergoglio himself, speaking through his mouthpiece, the journalist Andrea Tornieli, will refuse the personal prelature. In other words, the personal prelature is such a valuable gem that Newchurch cannot possibly afford to grant it to Fellay. "We're so sorry. We made a mistake. It's just too much of a concession to the Neo-SSPX."
    However, perhaps, just maybe, if Fellay kneels before Newcardinal Muller, head of Newchurch Doctrine (Fellay being too unworthy to kneel before Bergoglio himself), Newvatican just might -- if Fellay can concoct enough Newrosary crusades -- grant the personal prelature gem after all. But this would be almost impossible for Newrome to do, so strong would be the opposition from the far left that controls Newchurch. In order to get that personal prelature plum, Fellay would have to sign the tiny little doctrinal agreement, that mere bagatelle. Even then, his chances for relief are not all that good.
    The plum, the prize, is, in fact, a poison and a trap; and the trap is not a mere bagatelle! Today, the Neo-SSPX is still free as a bird, even though Fellay has been leading it towards the Novus Ordo cage since 2000. But it is still free for the moment. Newchurch threatens to take away the trap if Fellay does not capitulate, and Newchurch has hired liberals from without, like Tornieli, to imply that the trap is, of course, a paradise on earth. It is a beautiful bailiwick, which Fellay could hypothetically rule like a baron until he turns 75 in 2033 (if he lasts even a year at this rate!).
    The good news is that Newrome is having to play these games because Fellay can't sign. He can't sign because leaders among his own people won't let him. Not all of the little Neo-SSPX flies are eager to fly into the Novus Ordo spider web. Some of them have seen what happens to such flies, such as the flies of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, the Knights of Malta, the Transalpine Redemptorists, the Institute of the Good Shepherd, the Fraternity of St. Peter, and the Institute of Christ the King. Their priests must preach pablum Novus Ordo sermons from the pulpit because they dare not cross the Marxist Newpope and Newbishops who rule Newchurch.
    And what is this Newchurch to which Fellay still wishes to fly? It is moving quickly from Protestantism to paganism. Those in it who have any faith left need to flee while they still can. And they need to have somewhere to flee to, which is why Newchurch wants to swallow Archbishop Lefebvre's work once and for all. Now there is only the remnant in the independent traditional Catholic churches, chapels, and oratories and in the independent traditional Catholic organizations, such as the Society of St. Pius V, the Congregation of Mary Immaculate, The Traditional Resistance, etc.
    As Our Lord indicates in Scripture, in the end there will be only a remnant left anyway. True Catholics need to make certain that they are in that remnant, not caught in the black widow's web.


    Offline Wessex

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #19 on: April 30, 2017, 05:50:26 AM »
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  • Especially the 'ancien regime' and the 'seven hills' part!
    Well. I try and suggest that we are all becoming antiquarians no doubt residing in Bp. Fellay's posited 'Church of the Imagination'. There has to be a Disneyesque conclusion to all these years of frustration where the real experiences of our parents and grandparents are taking the form of a mythology which could be our only inheritance in that great mass of uncertainty in the making. Using Arthurian legend as the model, I would certainly assign the role of Merlin to Bp. Williamson as he magics his way out of papal conundrums and ensures our heavenly future. A simple faith would certainly drown under the weight of all this institutional elaboration and convolution  ....  but romantica will come to our rescue as that wonderful respite before oblivion.

    Traditio's piece about Society old hands not wanting the feared changes to their lives is interesting. Having created the SSPX (which was only supposed to be an emergency measure), why spoil a settled life? They may have that familiar state of mind that wants things to stay as they are in their lifetime even if they feel things will indeed change after they have gone.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #20 on: April 30, 2017, 10:57:17 AM »
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  • "Merlin"... yes, I can see it!


    The holy "wizard" from trad-wonderland



    He shows us the right path, saves us from the sede/schismatics and chases-off the αnтι-ѕємιтє dragons.


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #21 on: April 30, 2017, 01:19:37 PM »
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    Wessex,
     Having created the SSPX (which was only supposed to be an emergency measure), why spoil a settled life?
    Over the decades,this emergency measure, has taken to itself a cloak of permanence onto which it has implied its own lawfulness and legitimacy. The SSPX proper and its second iteration in the resistance, so called, have adopted this outlook and believe that simply acknowledging these aberrant conciliar popes codifies this status.

    The Mass and Sacraments have been forged into the nose ring by which modern neo-traditionals are led this or that way, according to the personal wisdoms of particular clerics both living and deceased.

    Perhaps you are onto something with this wizardry business?                        :furtive:

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #22 on: April 30, 2017, 04:34:29 PM »
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  • Quote
    Over the decades,this emergency measure, has taken to itself a cloak of permanence onto which it has implied its own lawfulness and legitimacy. The SSPX proper and its second iteration in the resistance, so called, have adopted this outlook and believe that simply acknowledging these aberrant conciliar popes codifies this status.


    Quote
    As long as Rome continues playing footsie with heresy and the evils of V2, then such 'emergency measures' are warranted and necessary, without question.  

    And, in the sense that we have no way of knowing when God will convert those clerics in Rome, or when He will restore the Church, such times of apostasy are "permanent", humanly speaking.  

    But it it's not the fault of Trads that we have to use such measures to keep the Faith.  And 50 yrs isn't in any way a 'permanent' situation.  Perhaps I'm missing your point?.. 


    Offline Wessex

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #23 on: May 01, 2017, 06:02:14 AM »
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  • No, having drilled into us that the mainstream is a different church (to justify their own organised dissidence), our leaders cannot now say that this alien church is the only path to salvation. Seeing how far conciliarism has advanced in eradicating the faith such a position defies all logic and relies on supernatural intervention for its realisation. I cannot imagine future converts to the faith wanting to recognise another church to the one they are joining. Such a suggestion would send the intended convert running in the opposite direction for the sake of his sanity! Exactly; we are now invited to support an insane proposition!   

    Offline AJNC

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #24 on: May 01, 2017, 06:41:11 AM »
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  • @Wessex:Exactly; we are now invited to support an insane proposition!  

    That sums it all up.

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #25 on: May 01, 2017, 10:08:22 AM »
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    Wessex,
    No, having drilled into us that the mainstream is a different church (to justify their own organised dissidence), our leaders cannot now say that this alien church is the only path to salvation.

    Precisely!! The Faithful have been indoctrinated with, and have internalized this completely contradictory narrative for decades. This is surely cause why so many  neo-Traditionals are confused and unable to exercise their faculties of logic and reason in Church matters. Catholic and conciliar are mutually exclusive and cannot be one and the same.
    You are quite correct that most who would find the false church attractive enough to join it, would be poor candidates for conversion to the Catholic Church.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #26 on: May 01, 2017, 10:19:36 AM »
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    No, having drilled into us that the mainstream is a different church (to justify their own organised dissidence), our leaders cannot now say that this alien church is the only path to salvation.
    The mainstream church is not 100% catholic, ergo, it is different than the past 2,000 yrs.  Are you debating this fact?
    Secondly, it seems like you're criticizing Trad clerics for not having a complete, thorough and simple answer to the times we are living in.  Why do you assume they should have one?  Didn't Our Lady of LaSallete warn of confusion (The Church will be in eclipse) and OL of Fatima of error (Russia will spread her errors)?  If the answer was easy, then the Trad world would be united behind an obvious solution.  If times were not to be confusing and dire, why would Our Lordy warn against 'wolves in sheeps' clothing?

    Quote
    Seeing how far conciliarism has advanced in eradicating the faith such a position defies all logic and relies on supernatural intervention for its realisation.
      It seems you want to blame clerics for the mess we are in.  God has allowed this mess, first and foremost.  He has also allowed the devil to create it.  And God has told us by multiple apparitions and prophecies that such times will happen...just as He foretold his passion to the Apostles, but they did not understand.

    Yes, I agree, that such times will require supernatural intervention.  I think that's whole point - God is allowing mankind to screw up and then He will allow His Mother to clean it up, so that "modern" man will realize its powerlessness and errors in shutting out God from society.

    Quote
    I cannot imagine future converts to the faith wanting to recognise another church to the one they are joining. Such a suggestion would send the intended convert running in the opposite direction for the sake of his sanity! Exactly; we are now invited to support an insane proposition! 
    A convert should convert for the Truth, not the Church.  Normally, they are united and it is hard to distinguish between them, but in our day and age, the human element of the Church is totally unCatholic, even while the spiritual Truths of Christ's bride remain pure.  Grace and goodwill will lead anyone to the Truth, regardless of the circuмstances.  Faith is greater than reason and God can enlighten our Faith even when our reason finds obstacles.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #27 on: May 01, 2017, 10:21:54 AM »
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  • Wessex, I could be misinterpreting your post, as your poetic riddles are usually hard to decipher.

    Offline AJNC

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    Re: From Traditio: Hmmm
    « Reply #28 on: May 08, 2017, 01:06:41 AM »
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  • May 9, 2017 - St. Gregory nαzιanzen, Bishop, Confessor & Doctor
     Double Feast

    A Reader Writes: "Fellay's Neo-SSPX Is Has Already Gone Novus Ordo
     In 2016 It Used the Novus Ordo Sect's Mass Calendar at Some of Its Sites"
    From: The TRADITIO Fathers

    Novus Ordo or Neo-SSPX? These Days It's Hard to Tell
     Actually, This Is a Mess Simulated by a "Personal Prelature" Group
     Which Bernie Fellay, Superior-Dictator of the Neo-SSPX, Wants to Emulate
     The TRADITIO Network Has Received Reports from around the World
     That Fellay's Neo-SSPX Is Already Assimilating to the Novus Ordo Sect
     In Using Vatican II "Liturgies," in Using Novus Ordo Clergy, and in Other Areas
     Fellay just Can't Wait for the Official "Imprimatur"
     Of the Marxist Newpope Francis-Bergoglio
     So He Has Jumped the Gun on Beginning the Process
     To Novus Ordoization at His Sites
    Dear TRADITIO Fathers:
    There is more proof of what TRADITIO's Canadian Correspondent has reported about opposition by various Neo-SSPX Superiors to Bernie Fellay's sellout to the New Order sect. In 2016, the Ordo (Mass Calendar) and Directory of the Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP), a Novus Ordo "Indult" group, was issued to various Neo-SSPX chapels. There must have been opposition to this sellout, however, from the Superiors, as an in-house Neo-SSPX edition, albeit quite minimal and insipid, was issued for the year 2017.
    The TRADITIO Fathers Reply.

    True Catholics, the TRADITIO Network has received reports from around the world that Bernie Fellay's Neo-SSPX is already assimilating to the Novus Ordo sect: in using Vatican II "liturgies," in using Novus Ordo clergy, and in other areas. Fellay just can't wait for the official "imprimatur" of the Marxist Newpope Francis-Bergoglio to become a Novus Ordinarian, so he has jumped the gun on beginning the process to the Novus Ordoization at his sites.