Author Topic: From Bitter Criticism to Deadly Suspicion - Winona FB Letter Fr. le Roux (Read 6140 times)

Columba · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2013, 12:35:12 PM »

Quote from: For Greater Glory

Columba,

Am I understanding you correctly? Are these seminarians being asked to leave because they won't follow the party line? If so, shameful and what is to be the future of the SSPX!

I know that some seminarians have been ordered to take leave of Winona for a year or two to attend secular university, but can only speculate on the reasons why.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #16 on:** July 03, 2013, 01:52:29 PM »

This is pretty disturbing stuff. If I had a boy in the seminary now, I think my advice would be something as follows: "Son, maybe you'd better come home for awhile. Go to work for a couple of years, and then, if you feel so inclined, go back in. There are some disturbing things going on at Winona."

Why does Fr. le Roux use the 1st person plural throughout? He doesn't single out the "resistance." He is implying that we, including himself, are all compliant in this. Is this a veiled 'mea culpa?'

JPaul · « **Reply #17 on:** July 03, 2013, 03:29:34 PM »

I immediately saw this as being a more sophisticated statement against the dissenters, and a veiled warning to the rest of the faithful to avoid these evils which have "found shelter" among the dissenting faithful and clerics.

It is deeper than previous in that it seeks to associate those who would disagree with Menzingen with these profoundly evil elements which undermine God's order and subvert souls.

There is much that is clearly implied in this letter.

JPaul · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2013, 03:35:28 PM »

Quote from: Columba

Quote from: For Greater Glory
Columba,

Am I understanding you correctly? Are these seminarians being asked to leave because they won't follow the party line? If so, shameful and what is to be the future of the SSPX!

I know that some seminarians have been ordered to take leave of Winona for a year or two to attend secular university, but can only speculate on the reasons why.

Of what possible benefit is there for a future priest to attend a secular cesspool university?
Perhaps this is just a gentle way to show them the door. Could they have asked their superiors the wrong questions. This truly needs to be investigated to ascertain the truth of the matter.

This letter and this information are very disturbing.

John Grace · « **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2013, 04:07:45 PM »

I'm amused at being likened to a Fundamentalist Baptist via PM.

I could argue that stating I support Eugenics is calumny.

Napoli · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2013, 04:15:41 PM »

You are definitely not a southern baptist. If someonedisagrees with yyour opinion, fine. Calling you a heretical protestant sect, that's too far.

John Grace · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2013, 04:15:46 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

I'm amused at being likened to a Fundamentalist Baptist via PM.

I could argue that stating I support Eugenics is calumny.

I can't add the comment as time to edit has ended. It's far too late now. Could the person who likened me to a Fundamentalist Baptist email me gracejohn76@gmail.com. I will reply in 10 days though.

John Grace · « **Reply #22 on:** July 03, 2013, 04:17:16 PM »

Quote from: Napoli

You are definitely not a southern baptist. If someonedisagrees with yyour opinion, fine. Calling you a heretical protestant sect, that's too far.

It was a misunderstanding. Quite easy on internet fora. I was making a point about early Irish literature and the use of satire.

Columba · « **Reply #23 on:** July 03, 2013, 04:59:34 PM »

Quote from: J.Paul

Quote from: Columba
Quote from: For Greater Glory
Columba,

Am I understanding you correctly? Are these seminarians being asked to leave because they won't follow the party line? If so, shameful and what is to be the future of the SSPX!

I know that some seminarians have been ordered to take leave of Winona for a year or two to attend secular university, but can only speculate on the reasons why.

Of what possible benefit is there for a future priest to attend a secular cesspool university?
Perhaps this is just a gentle way to show them the door. Could they have asked their superiors the wrong questions. This truly needs to be investigated to ascertain the truth of the matter.

This letter and this information are very disturbing.

If the Society is going through Vatican II B as +Williamson has previously written, it makes perfect sense. Martin's book "The Jesuits" describes the same treatment for Jesuit seminarians starting soon after Vatican II. Earnest, "good kid" types become demoralized and lose their vocation while the more cynical and already corrupted types are better able to stick it out.

Nickolas · « **Reply #24 on:** July 03, 2013, 05:18:29 PM »

Neil Obstat: could you please post the entire newsletter so that we may read it all in context.

Fr. le Roux: Could you please issue a clarified edition of your newsletter and state who you are speaking about? You are a gifted writer, yet in this letter, you paint with a broad brush, leaving many to speculate who you are talking about. Your use of the word "we" throughout the letter seems to indicate you are speaking of yourself and possibly other members of the SSPX leadership or perhaps all of us. If you are speaking of yourself and other SSPX leadership, perhaps resignations are next?

Fr. le Roux, consider this paragraph in your letter:
"Our intelligence has become a barren field because of the supremacy of our feelings over any other consideration...." You use the word "Our" to begin the sentence, so you are including yourself in this statement, is that correct? Are you also including the elderly woman who faithfully has supported the SSPX each week over the past 40 years and has sent her widow's mite to you in support of the new seminary? Has her intelligence become a barren field because of her feelings?

My own thoughts of this newsletter, and forgive me I haven't read all of it, just the portions included on this thread, is that it is an odd placement of an attack just days after the SSPX bold declaration made in conjunction of the 25th anniversary of the consecrations. Odd also with the recent revelations of a PR company engaged to assist the Society in making itself more likable.

Now I may be wrong, and probably am, but on the heels of the 25th anniversary declaration, this hit piece appears to place both as attempts to destroy the Resistance. I hope I am wrong. The Resistance is composed of good priests and laity whose consciences would not allow them to compromise when asked to do so. Plain and simple.

Incredulous · « **Reply #25 on:** July 03, 2013, 05:38:26 PM »

Quote from: Columba

Quote from: Neil Obstat
Some rather telling language is to be found in this latest Letter
to Friends and Benefactors of the Seminary Under Transition:

"... The present state of things, the daily misery, brings man closer to decadence. This pernicious, underhanded decay contaminates the air, runs in the streets, enters the homes, thwarts the best defenses, and laughs at the best efforts at containment. Imperceptibly, it seeps into our souls and insidiously obliges us to make a pact with it. Nothing seems to be able to stop it; it agitates our senses, penetrates our hearts and deteriorates our intelligences. It is a true pandemic. The sign of its victory is the present condition of the intelligence, no longer able to stand against our vaguest and most vulgar impulses. We are witnessing a rebellion against the intelligence and its rule: the emotions alone are acknowledged as valid. We assist, not only impotent, but too often consenting to the triumph of our animal nature over the spiritual.

... "Our intelligence has become a barren field because of the supremacy of our feelings over any other consideration. This rulership of our emotions brings the soul under the tyrannical dominion of passions. Then we do not live any more as men led by their intelligence, but as animals seeking to satisfy their natural appetites. Our senses are no more at the service of the intelligence or subject to it; the faculties of the soul have become slaves of our disordered feelings. Everyone lets himself be dominated by pride, cunningly disguised under the mask of whatever emotion is present at the moment. Everyone then feels justified in any criticism he feels like making. All this in good conscience, because our reason is blinded by our feelings. This is a cowardly attitude, because it reveals a real and unconditional surrender on our part.

"We must come to recognize this poison, because it sterilizes all the work of sanctification and spreads a spirit of generalized suspicion where everyone can say whatever his bitterness inspires and carelessly destroy the reputations of others. ..."

The rector of the Winona Seminary seems to be going out of his way
here to describe his own condition and that of his following
in this current crisis imposed by the Menzingen-denizens from the top
down. It is good to pay attention to his description because it tells us
a lot about how the Accordistas feel about themselves, and they are
then looking for someone else to blame for their discontent, as all
liberals always do -- like the scorpion said in The Frog and the Scorpion,
"I couldn't help it. It's my nature."

+Roux seems rattled by the congealing of the Resistance. It must have penetrated the walls of the seminary. Some seminarians have been ordered to take leave of Winona for a year or two to attend a secular university.

The artistry and drama of his missive is highly impressive. +Roux missed his calling as a novelist. Projection has been a hallmark of the anti-Resistance since its beginning but this incidence of it takes the cake.

A French novelist who likes American bourbon ?
He's probably jealous of the new rector of the SSPX-SO seminary in Boston, KY, since they are so close to the world's best bourbon distilleries.

Unbrandable · « **Reply #26 on:** July 03, 2013, 05:59:47 PM »

Of course, always the same old story - attack the people and not the issues.

They try to impress people with elaborate letters like this (or with "witty" letters like Father Ockerse's) since they can't impress people with good arguments refuting the accusations made against them (because there are no good arguments).

magdalena · « **Reply #27 on:** July 03, 2013, 06:18:37 PM »

Quote from: J.Paul

I immediately saw this as being a more sophisticated statement against the dissenters, and a veiled warning to the rest of the faithful to avoid these evils which have "found shelter" among the dissenting faithful and clerics.

It is deeper than previous in that it seeks to associate those who would disagree with Menzingen with these profoundly evil elements which undermine God's order and subvert souls.

There is much that is clearly implied in this letter.

I tend to agree.

Matthew · « **Reply #28 on:** July 03, 2013, 06:39:18 PM »

I thought the letter was typical fare from Fr. Le Roux, who tends to be lofty, ivory tower, intellectual, and "spiritual" as opposed to practical.

Just look at the new priests coming out of Winona to learn a lot about the new rector.

He has his own personality, his own style, and his own talents to lend the neo-SSPX. He is doing exactly what I'd imagine him doing in the fight.

He is painting with a broad brush, portraying the Resistance as so many creatures ruled by their passions, on the broad road to Hell, their spiritual lives in ruins.

If only it were that simple, Father.

And if my intuition is correct, reading between the lines, I perceived some serious passion of anger/righteous indignation at the Resistance. Since Fr. Le Roux is NOT a choleric, this is about as livid as he gets. You can tell by how he paints several "coats" of the same concept, the strong words used, etc.

Ironic, when you consider the topic of the letter.

magdalena · « **Reply #29 on:** July 03, 2013, 07:58:22 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I thought the letter was typical fare from Fr. Le Roux, who tends to be lofty, ivory tower, intellectual, and "spiritual" as opposed to practical.

Just look at the new priests coming out of Winona to learn a lot about the new rector.

He has his own personality, his own style, and his own talents to lend the neo-SSPX. He is doing exactly what I'd imagine him doing in the fight.

He is painting with a broad brush, portraying the Resistance as so many creatures ruled by their passions, on the broad road to Hell, their spiritual lives in ruins.

If only it were that simple, Father.

And if my intuition is correct, reading between the lines, I perceived some serious passion of anger/righteous indignation at the Resistance. Since Fr. Le Roux is NOT a choleric, this is about as livid as he gets. You can tell by how he paints several "coats" of the same concept, the strong words used, etc.

Ironic, when you consider the topic of the letter.

Yes. Very true.