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Author Topic: Friendly Reminder about Boston KY issues  (Read 9078 times)

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Offline TheRealMcCoy

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Friendly Reminder about Boston KY issues
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 05:53:14 AM »
Quote from: MariaAngelaGrow
But they all think this is a good seminary.


Based on what evidence?  That more than 50% of the seminarians left this summer and are now at other Resistance seminaries and won't return?  Of the warm fuzzies they get from the missionary priests?  Well I get the warm fuzzies too when I hear fearless sermons about vanquishing Jews and the courageous Blackrobes.  

Not one seminarian has received tonsure.  And that's not because the bishops are mean.  It's because these seminarians are not being properly formed.  Bishops have a duty to not rubber stamp men through the process.  

I tell you it wouldn't matter if people posted in their own names and gave sworn testimonies of what they witness in Boston KY because nobody would care.  How do I know?  Because those who attend OLMC don't care.  So that's how I know the world wouldn't care.  

What paulfhc has posted is true and what angela is posting is true.  Heck even most of what hollingsworth is posting is true.  But instead of action we get finger wagging about detraction.  Are you kidding me?  Since when is warning someone they are going into danger detraction?  There are some seriously scrupulous trads out there.  I'm so glad to not be a trad.  Just a faithful Catholic.


Offline Matthew

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Friendly Reminder about Boston KY issues
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015, 08:09:18 AM »
Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
There are some seriously scrupulous trads out there.  I'm so glad to not be a trad.  Just a faithful Catholic.


I agree with your post, except for this part.

I have to point out that being a faithful Catholic right now involves being a so-called "Traditional Catholic". Yes, there are countless problems with many Trads nationwide. As the owner of CathInfo since 2006 and a life-long Trad, few are more aware of all the things that can go wrong in the Trad world than I am. I've seen it all. But not a single one of those problems is inherent to the movement, or can be blamed on the movement.

See, we can blame the Novus Ordo for young men leaving the Church, for people not learning their faith, because those things are not accidental, but come from the very formation, tendencies, and philosophy of the Novus Ordo.

But when a Trad becomes a home aloner, or is uncharitable, mean, becomes a bully, commits various public sins, etc. it has nothing to do with the Catholic Faith (which, by the way, is eminently Traditional). Maybe he REJECTED too much of his priest's advice, became too worldly, married a non-Catholic, didn't pray enough, etc. and that is the source of his problems.


Offline Ladislaus

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Friendly Reminder about Boston KY issues
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2015, 08:20:04 AM »
Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
Since when is warning someone they are going into danger detraction?


When the warning actually does involve detraction?

I basically called out Father Pfeiffer from the get-go and was beat up for it.  I detected a strong pride and "Athanasius complex" in the tone of his sermons, this notion that he believed himself to be some kind of last prophetic defender of the faith when all others have failed.  Both of these perceptions of mine were vindicated and confirmed when he started red-lighting priests with whom he had no theological differences.  I also called him out for creating a cult around himself, as evidenced by those on this board who reacted violently and emotionally to rational criticism of his positions.  He clearly had episcopal ambitions from the beginning, and when he saw that +Williamson didn't intend to consecrate him, he started to bash +Williamson publicly.  Now we see the Bishop Ambrose thing (just waiting for word of the "consecration").

I outline all this to show that there's PLENTY of publicly-known and observable reason for people to avoid Boston and many grounds for warning.

Now, if there are other serious problems that need to be made known for the public good, then that isn't detraction, obviously.  But the very act of citing "moral problems" without proof or without specific detail can be detraction ... as in the example I cited before.  While you might characterize something like perceived dishonesty as a "moral problem", for all people know, due to the intentional vagueness of the charge, there could be something going on involving farm animals on the Pfeiffer complex.  There could easily therefore be an indirect (and yet very real) detraction going on just by the unsubstantiated whispering of some non-specific "moral problems".

At the end of the day, IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS THAT ARE SERIOUS ENOUGH TO OUT IN PUBLIC FOR THE GOOD OF SOULS, THEN NOT ONLY IS THE REVELATION OF DETAILS AND ADDUCING OF PROOF AND EVIDENCE PERMISSIBLE, BUT THEY ARE REQUIRED FOR THE SAME REASONS THAT OUTING THE MISCONDUCT IN THE FIRST PLACE WOULD BE REQUIRED.

Thus Matthew's statement regarding doing your business or getting off the pot.  It's either one of the other; you can't have it both ways.  If you have no proof that you're willing to share, then you need to publicly retract your statement and accuse yourself of detraction and/or calumny.

Offline Ladislaus

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Friendly Reminder about Boston KY issues
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2015, 08:53:41 AM »
Quote from: MariaAngelaGrow
I  have a great weight of guilt for having directed many people to the seminary in Boston as well as retreats, etc.

Such improper things include:

Giving the seminarians meat on Fridays.


If you're R&R, then technically the strict obligation to not eat meat on Fridays has ceased to bind.  In addition, Confessors / Spiritual Directors have always been at liberty to dispense with the obligation to eat meat on Friday for various just / proportionate causes.  We don't know why this may have been done.

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Making the seminarians do unnecessary manual labor on Sunday.


Unnecessary is a subjective term that can mean many things to many people.

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Showing the seminarians pornography, as attested by a seminarian who left and is going to join Avrille.


Define "pornography".  One person's pornography might be another person's art.  And this is coming from a person who considers the vast majority of nude Renaissance art to be completely inappropriate.  So is it more along those lines, or are they passing around Playboy magazine?  There was a seminarian at Winona who showed a movie which briefly showed a woman topless.  While I would consider that highly inappropriate and scandalous, I wouldn't necessary put that in the category of pornography.

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Interrupting the prayer time of people who were there to do things which could have been done at other times.


That's outright rude and inconsiderate, but not necessarily a grave problem.

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Neglect of Divine Office when it was time to pray it. An obligation for priests, but Fr Pfeiffer blew it off when he was busy with mundane matters. Two people I trust have attested to the neglect of prayer life at the seminary for "doing". This has never been reported of Fr Hewko. Only Fr Pfeiffer sometimes and Pablo often interrupting prayer time with a trivial task.


Again, there's some subjectivity here.  Sometimes one might be dispensed from the Divine Office for good reason.  One person's "mundane matters" might be considered necessary for the good of souls by another.

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Leaving the seminarians alone, mostly with Pablo only for direction when the priests were off saying Masses various places. I am not saying, in this crisis, that leaving them with a holy, responsible lay person would be wrong, but if Pablo is not practicing the Faith, it does not seem he should be the main person to direct seminarians in the absence of the priests. This happened less when Fr Voigt was there, but now that he is gone, Pablo directs everything while the priests are gone.


That's not uncommon due to the current crisis.  Even at Winona, on the weekends, sometimes you had either just one priest left behind (or even none for brief periods) since they were all out on the Mass circuit.  But, no, Pablo should not be in charge of anything.

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Women and children having free run in the seminary when the priests were gone.


When a seminary doubles as a Mass center, that sometimes happens a little bit, perhaps more than it should.  But it happened at Winona a little bit also.

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Having Mass only two or three times a week when the fathers are all gone on trips. This is not a violation of moral law, but not the best way to conduct a seminary to form holy priests.


Not ideal, but again, sometimes unavoidable.

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I have said what I have said because of a desire to keep people from being entangled in this situation. We were on the verge of moving to Boston, and had not people been kind enough to warn me, we would have been there, highly dependent on Pablo for transportation, which would have meant being under his control.


While I qualified some of the things you said above, these would all certainly be reasons why one might not want to receive "formation" in that environment.

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Since I  previously have constantly recommended this seminary and institution, I feel a great burden for misleading people, even if in ignorance. One young man from Texas whom I have been encouraging to go there for over a year is determined to go, even when I retracted my support. I am not the only reason he is going there, but when he was in times of doubt, I encouraged him to continue to prepare to go there. Now I feel partly responsible for whatever happens to him spiritually when he is there. I had told him if he was ever in trouble there call me because I am only 2 and 1/2 hours away, much closer than TX. But with the new rules in effect, the seminarians are cut off, and he would have no way to contact me. So this is to repair the wrong I have done in recommending Boston, not to spread gossip.


Don't beat yourself up.  You did the best you could with the information you had.  If he ends up going there, then God will have allowed it ... for whatever reasons.

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I am in a difficult position, because some of this was told me in confidence and some not. But if I am silent, I am complicit in the harm they may do. Otherwise, I would not be saying this. Normally, I keep what is told to me in confidence inviolate. But the hurt that was done to my friend there puts me in a position that I must warn of danger. This is not light gossip, but a soul wrenching situation for me. I am in deep grief for Boston, but aware that my endorsements must be withdrawn.


If there are solid reasons to reveal things said in "confidence" that's for the public good, then confidences can be broken (provided we're not talking about detraction, calumny, or something that would at least indirectly violate the seal of Confession).

So the overall impression one gets is that the place appears to be dysfunctional.  More than any of these things, I would avoid Boston due to 1) the dubious Ambrose celebrating doubtful Sacraments there, 2) the borderline-schismatic red-lightism demanded by Father Pfeiffer, 3) total lack of confidence in Father Pfeiffer's judgment due to #1 and #2 above, 4) the cult-like mentality evidenced by many in the Boston compound, and 5) the disturbing presence of one nameless Meshicano.

Offline Matthew

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Friendly Reminder about Boston KY issues
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2015, 08:54:17 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
While you might characterize something like perceived dishonesty as a "moral problem", for all people know, due to the intentional vagueness of the charge, there could be something going on involving farm animals on the Pfeiffer complex.  There could easily therefore be an indirect (and yet very real) detraction going on just by the unsubstantiated whispering of some non-specific "moral problems".


Actually, if people were led to guess worse things about the individuals in question, wouldn't it be indirect calumny rather than detraction, since those charges wouldn't be true?