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Author Topic: French Carmelites Join the Resistance  (Read 3415 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2019, 03:13:17 PM »
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  • "Presentation

    With joy and thanksgiving to the Good God, who loves truth and justice, and to His Most Pure Mother, we wish, with this monthly bulletin, to make the defense
    simple and sincere of our positions and decisions. Next month, we hope to be able to share with you the reasons for our adhesion to H.E. Bishop Williamson and
    all the little movement called "Fidelity," or simply "Resistance," and all those who oppose the rally to modernist Rome.

    By sharing with you a little bit of our life and our spirituality, we hope to involve you in the beautiful Carmelite family, as well as the many graces which Our Lady graciously grants to those who honor her as the Lady of the Carmel!

    We count on your prayers for our Monastery and we assure you that you can count on ours!

    May these pages, with the Grace of God, benefit your souls!

    Mother Marie-Françoise of the Holy Desert, O. Carm (Secretary)"
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #2 on: August 24, 2019, 03:18:24 PM »
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  • "Editorial

    The Karmel is a monthly newsletter in which we will be able to share with you what we have received from the Most High Lord and God!

    The Carmelites of the primitive observance constitute a monastic community which exclusively follows the Catholic doctrine and the traditional rite of the Holy Mass, under the authority of H.E. Bishop Williamson, H.E. Bishop Thomas Aquinas and the other bishops who have the same Faith as the One Holy Church. 

    We have been working will meet with each months in these briefs reflections and will raise a little the veil that hides the real monastic life in the Church.

    Sr. Rose Marie de Saint Joseph"
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #3 on: August 24, 2019, 03:34:49 PM »
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  • "The Chronicles of Karmel

    Did you know that we had been in existence since for a long time? Did you know when our little mission began?

    Today, I was going to talk to you a little about bit of our history, our origins and the reasons why we have persevered, even if a lot of prople would like us not to exist anymore...

    From this caste, we descend: From the son of the prophets of Mount Carmel. Today more than ever, we are called to help restore the Faith of God's people, to rebuild their altars destroyed by modernism, and to defeat with the Carmelite Virgin of the Deserts, sometimes in the cold night and silent, sometimes incisive, sometimes silent
    in the midday heat, in the struggle against God's enemies. 

    From this people was born the Monastery Sainte Marie, in the city of Atibaia - SP- BR, next to the Monastery of Saint-Élie, of our brothers, the Carmelite monks of the primitive observance. 

    For 11 years, the monastery has survived with the official approval of the Diocese of Bragança Paulista. In 2013, we started our long walks towards Horeb, hiding at Carit. A strange story to say the least. In a world where "human freedom, equality and fraternity" are cherished, some people are banished, expelled and sometimes even excommunicated for their commitment to teaching for a millennium that so many people have, that many civilizations have created, and which has led to Heaven a multitudes of souls!

    Expelled from our country, exiled to Paraguay, under the supervision of a holy Bishop, Bishop Livières, and holy priests, the monastery has grown so much that there has become a need for more space to live and the Good God has allowed a new achievement!  The bishop himself was dismissed and expelled from his own diocese for remaining faithful to the Lord! A time when our limits have been constantly tested. But it was precisely during this time when our mission became more and more clear!

    We left our homeland and our family again and God has brought us to these lands, where we have not only family roots, but also especially through the bond of Christianity! From the lands where the Christian Faith was established not without blood, not without the struggle, not without eternal love!

    So it was actually a return to the home."
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline St.Patrick

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #4 on: August 24, 2019, 03:49:19 PM »
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  • The title of this thread is totally misleading. These Carmelites have been in the resistance with Father Ballini here in Ireland for a year already.
    Just look at the little map of ireland on the last page. You don't even need french to understand that.
    I'm not attacking you Sean, just pointing it out. You probably didn't know.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #5 on: August 24, 2019, 03:52:32 PM »
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  • "The word of Mother Prioress

    Dear friends and benefactors,

    As Chesterton said in Tremedous Trifles: "I didn't create the world and I didn't make it paradoxical. It's not my fault, it's the truth, the only way to get to England. The only way to go back is to go elsewhere. The only way to get to England is to get out of England!" Similarly, we apparently have need to "get out" of our beloved Church so that we can finally "get in!" Even if many of our friends do not understand the meaning of this decision, one day, everyone will understand that Jesus died outside our beloved Jerusalem, while He was the Temple.

    Just as Elijah was persecuted by the king and queen of Israel, many are persecuted by the official authorities of the new Israel, the Holy Catholic Church, to restore the altars of the Lord God and their true worship with the Holy Mass. Today, we thank Mgr. Lefebvre and all those who work kept Tradition for us, the workers of the last hour, which, without merit, can enjoy the ineffable goods of the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church!

    We do not use images from the monastery or writings exalting a particular person or community. But this bulletin is the way to show the true face of monastic life - so that
    the "world" sees what it often does not know, or thinks he is dead, like the "God of Nietzsche"!

    Monastic life is not a life "easy," full of "smiles" and parties as we are trying to do today.  Nor is it an impossible life to lead, without joy and "abnormal."

    Join us in this adventure and we can understand together what is this traditional monastic life that enchants some people very much, and annoys others. No one can see it, except from a distance, but it cannot cause indifference, always leaving a question, a question....

    This may seem like a certain narcissism on the part of our community to feel too much "persecuted and victimized," but its not with the intention of publishing such.  About us! We are a very small minority who "suffers" for the Faith...But in one they all meet. And in our little story, others can find relief and answer, encouragement and company in the journey to the Principle and Reason for everything: God! We have therefore decided to no longer be solitary... why keep quiet?

    Let's move on...until He comes and with Him takes us with all those who desire His Kingdom!"
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #6 on: August 24, 2019, 03:54:45 PM »
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  • The title of this thread is totally misleading. These Carmelites have been in the resistance with Father Ballini here in Ireland for a year already.
    Just look at the little map of ireland on the last page. You don't even need french to understand that.
    I'm not attacking you Sean, just pointing it out. You probably didn't know.

    Hello St. Patrick-

    I am only posting this article because I saw it on the Reconquista blog, and I never even heard of these Carmelites, and thought other people would like to know about them.

    The headline at the very top-right of the newsletter says "Edition I - France," and the back page lists their address thusly:

    Janua Coeli Monastery
    Carmelite Nuns of Primitive Observance
    6 Rue du Pont, 63700, Montaigut in
    Combraille, France +33 68595 1713

    Yet they are in Ireland, not France??

    What else can you tell us about them?

    PS: So there are now 2 Carmels in Ireland: The one with Mother Irene, and now this one?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #7 on: August 24, 2019, 09:16:39 PM »
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  • Thank you for posting, Sean - excellent news!

    According to the photo in the newsletter, there are 6 professed and 25 novices!!!!

    I'd be interested in knowing their history.

    Gail is my go-to for all things Carmel.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline Gail

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #8 on: August 24, 2019, 09:31:58 PM »
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  • Hello Sean, 

    Wonderful news indeed! Thank you for translating the newsletter for us, I have one query, why do you think they spell Carmel in the headingwith and capital 'K' not a 'C'?  Probably seems tedious, but I am just curious. 

    I wish I could understand French....maybe one day!

    May God bless your continued efforts, 
    Gail 

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #9 on: August 24, 2019, 11:03:36 PM »
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  • I thought at first that K in Karmel may have been German, but it seems that in the text it is Carmel and Mont Carmel.
    But present day Carmel is al Karmil, Palestine.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #10 on: August 25, 2019, 09:08:21 AM »
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  • It's looks like the Carmelite sisters went from being diocesan straight to the Resistance, without any stops in between (if I'm reading it correctly). I'd like to hear how they came to the Resistance. In any case this is great news. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #11 on: August 25, 2019, 09:43:23 AM »
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  • It's looks like the Carmelite sisters went from being diocesan straight to the Resistance, without any stops in between (if I'm reading it correctly). I'd like to hear how they came to the Resistance.

    So would I.

    Apparently, these are the Carmelites associated with Fr. Tiago.

    Seems somewhat strange that they would move away from Brazil (where there are many Carmelite vocations), to France (where there are none).

    Cost of living is also much higher in France.

    I am also wondering just how traditional they are, as only a few months ago, they were received by a diocesan bishop in France.

    At the same time, they say they adhere to the Resistance bishops, yet I have never heard any of the four bishops reference these Carmelites.

    I guess we will have to wait to see how they explain themselves in next months' newsletter.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Meg

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #12 on: August 25, 2019, 10:06:52 AM »
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  • So would I.

    Apparently, these are the Carmelites associated with Fr. Tiago.

    Seems somewhat strange that they would move away from Brazil (where there are many Carmelite vocations), to France (where there are none).

    Cost of living is also much higher in France.

    I am also wondering just how traditional they are, as only a few months ago, they were received by a diocesan bishop in France.

    At the same time, they say they adhere to the Resistance bishops, yet I have never heard any of the four bishops reference these Carmelites.

    I guess we will have to wait to see how they explain themselves in next months' newsletter.

    Well, I have to assume that the Carmelites putting themselves under the Resistance is legit, since the Reconquista blog is associated with the Avrille seminary.

    It would be helpful if that blog had an English translation mode available to use. There isn't anything about this story on the French Resistance forum either, which you probably noticed. At least I can read that forum in English from the link on the Non-Possumus blog. 

    It does sound like they've had a bit of a roller-coaster ride, with having to move around a lot in order to try to maintain a traditional life, but it isn't clear as to how it all happened. It seems like maybe they grew tired of the persecution from the conciliar church, and just wanted to be able to live out their vocation in a traditional manner. But you're right; we have to wonder how traditional they are. But they have to start somewhere, and the Resistance seems a good place to do that.

    Yes, hopefully we'll know more with the next newsletter.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #13 on: August 25, 2019, 12:19:15 PM »
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  • Someone posted this (in French) in the Anonymous forum:

    "The Carmelites settled in France follow the primitive rule (with Father Tiago or Jacques de Saint Jospeh) Originally Brazilian, they had to emigrate to Paraguay when they returned to the primitive rule... with the traditional liturgy.  From Paraguay, they moved to Portugal, Ireland... and now settled in a house bought near Father Morgan's house.  

    Namely: they tried to join the FSSPX but Menzingen replied: "they must first be in order with their bishop"...  They have arrived at Fidelity!"


    Comment:

    If you combine this information, with that above (e.g., The Carmelites visiting the French diocesan bishop three months ago), it makes it sound like they are not Resistance in principle, but by default.  

    As a sidenote, it is revealing that Bishop Fellay/SSPX will not accept any religious who are not approved by conciliarist bishops (presuming the anonymous poster is to be believed).

    There have been no compromises!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline St.Patrick

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    Re: French Carmelites Join the Resistance
    « Reply #14 on: August 27, 2019, 04:51:29 AM »
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  • Hello St. Patrick-

    I am only posting this article because I saw it on the Reconquista blog, and I never even heard of these Carmelites, and thought other people would like to know about them.

    The headline at the very top-right of the newsletter says "Edition I - France," and the back page lists their address thusly:

    Janua Coeli Monastery
    Carmelite Nuns of Primitive Observance
    6 Rue du Pont, 63700, Montaigut in
    Combraille, France +33 68595 1713

    Yet they are in Ireland, not France??

    What else can you tell us about them?

    PS: So there are now 2 Carmels in Ireland: The one with Mother Irene, and now this one?

    Hi Sean,
    Yes they were in Ireland until recently. There were two Carmels in Ireland, though sadly, soon to be none once Mother Irene moves.

    They are friends of Father Tiago.

    The Dominicans of Avrille present themselves to the local bishop whenever there is a new one. It is just a courtesy and does not imply they submit themselves. So I imagine the Sisters were doing the same.

    In any case they fully understand the resistance position, and were submitted to Father Ballini while here, as they will be to Father Morgan in France.