Author Topic: Freemasons within the SSPX (Read 6293 times)

hansel · « **on:** October 25, 2012, 07:57:05 AM »

It should come as no surprise that the Freemasons would be infiltrating the SSPX over many years as they did the Church pre-Vatican II. What is interesting to note is that the SSPX laity, yes we, have been indoctrinated and programmed for this reunion with Rome for decades now. Fiddling with the rubrics, dialogue Mass, congregational singing during High Mass are all innovations which strangely mimc what we had experienced in the Conciliar Church a lifetime ago. Worse yet, the children in the SSPX schools are being indoctrinated. Bishop W stated to our pastor years ago that 70% of the students in SSPX schools lose the Faith! Case in point: Our SSPX chapel had a French priest who decided that we should all stand, not kneel for the SANCTUS. (The more recent SSPX Missals have erased the instruction to kneel, but it is present in the Fr. LaSance Missal to kneel at the SANCTUS, one of the most reverent moments in preparation for the Consecration). He used a clacker to loudly remind the laity when the SANCTUS bell had rung that everyone must stand(-like Pavlov's dogs). Although most were eventually conditioned to stand, many did not. In deference to God before man, a growing and growing number over several weeks quietly knelt for the Sanctus. Our prior came to quell the matter. He told one of the kneelers, "WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT THE NEXT GENERATION WILL STAND FOR THE SANCTUS!" (as they do in almost all SSPX schools). The kneelers caught the attention of Fr. Rostand who also came, to try to subdue the problem. In spite of this, more and more parishioners knelt for the SANCTUS. Petitions were sent to multiple superiors; finally Bp. Tissier, disgusted with the tactics, delivered us. Now everyone kneels for the SANCTUS low and High Mass, kneels for the AGNUS DEI, etc. as our forefathers did. These innovations, interestingly enough, are present in the Novus Ordo Mass, so all of you in SSPX chapels who stand for the SANCTUS, please KNEEL FOR GOD. Do not follow the crowd. There is an agenda.

Roland Deschain · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2012, 08:04:50 AM »

Quote from: hansel

It should come as no surprise that the Freemasons would be infiltrating the SSPX over many years as they did the Church pre-Vatican II. What is interesting to note is that the SSPX laity, yes we, have been indoctrinated and programmed for this reunion with Rome for decades now. Fiddling with the rubrics, dialogue Mass, congregational singing during High Mass are all innovations which strangely mimc what we had experienced in the Conciliar Church a lifetime ago. Worse yet, the children in the SSPX schools are being indoctrinated. Bishop W stated to our pastor years ago that 70% of the students in SSPX schools lose the Faith! Case in point: Our SSPX chapel had a French priest who decided that we should all stand, not kneel for the SANCTUS. (The more recent SSPX Missals have erased the instruction to kneel, but it is present in the Fr. LaSance Missal to kneel at the SANCTUS, one of the most reverent moments in preparation for the Consecration). He used a clacker to loudly remind the laity when the SANCTUS bell had rung that everyone must stand(-like Pavlov's dogs). Although most were eventually conditioned to stand, many did not. In deference to God before man, a growing and growing number over several weeks quietly knelt for the Sanctus. Our prior came to quell the matter. He told one of the kneelers, "WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT THE NEXT GENERATION WILL STAND FOR THE SANCTUS!" (as they do in almost all SSPX schools). The kneelers caught the attention of Fr. Rostand who also came, to try to subdue the problem. In spite of this, more and more parishioners knelt for the SANCTUS. Petitions were sent to multiple superiors; finally Bp. Tissier, disgusted with the tactics, delivered us. Now everyone kneels for the SANCTUS low and High Mass, kneels for the AGNUS DEI, etc. as our forefathers did. These innovations, interestingly enough, are present in the Novus Ordo Mass, so all of you in SSPX chapels who stand for the SANCTUS, please KNEEL FOR GOD. Do not follow the crowd. There is an agenda.

St Pius X himself recommended congregational singing for the ordinary of the Mass.

I agree with everything else you wrote. I was taken quite by surprise the first time I attended a Missa Cantata at an SSPX chapel and saw the difference in rubrics from what I had always experienced even at a diocesan Mass.

hansel · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2012, 09:32:29 AM »

Yes, as a cardinal Saint Pius X did state this, but not as Pope, nor did he definitively institute (even in his Encyclical on Church music) universal congregational singing of the Kyriale by the entire congregation while he was Pope. Never in the history of music in the Church has the entire congregation of lay people become a virtual choir, been instructed to stand (this is the reason given by the superiors that the laity should stand so they can sing better) during the Ordinary including the Sanctus and Agnus Dei of the High Mass. If Saint Pius X were alive today and he saw how congregational singing has been used to promote the cause of lay PARTICIPATION as promoted by Martin Luther and the Protestant Revolt, as well as Vatican II, maybe he would today caution us against it!

PereJoseph · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2012, 10:23:58 AM »

Quote from: hansel

Yes, as a cardinal Saint Pius X did state this, but not as Pope, nor did he definitively institute (even in his Encyclical on Church music) universal congregational singing of the Kyriale by the entire congregation while he was Pope.

"Special efforts are to be made to restore the us end the Gregorian Chant by the people, so that the faithful may again take a more active part in the ecclesiastical offices, as was the case in ancient times." -- St Pius X, Tra te sollecitudini, no. 3

"On the same principle it follows that singers in church have a real liturgical office, and that therefore women, being incapable of exercising such office, cannot be admitted to form part of the choir." -- ibid., no. 13

It looks like Pope Pius X, as Pope, certainly did demand that the men in the congregation be instructed in the ecclesiastical chants so as to thereby participate more actively in the liturgical offices. This letter was mostly ignored, but that doesn't mean that he did not truly will for the ancient custom of male congregational singing to be restored.

PereJoseph · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2012, 10:33:44 AM »

Quote from: PereJoseph

Quote from: hansel
Yes, as a cardinal Saint Pius X did state this, but not as Pope, nor did he definitively institute (even in his Encyclical on Church music) universal congregational singing of the Kyriale by the entire congregation while he was Pope.

"Special efforts are to be made to restore the us end...

That should be "use of..." Sorry, I am typing this on my phone.

Columba · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2012, 11:08:36 AM »

Quote from: hansel

Our SSPX chapel had a French priest who decided that we should all stand, not kneel for the SANCTUS.

I do not have statistics, but it seems anecdotally that many more conservative American priests are being sent over seas to make way for an inundation of more liberal French priests, especially in the leadership positions. It feels like a kind of sly cultural imperialism.

Does anyone else notice such a trend or have access to the statistics?

bowler · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2012, 11:17:58 AM »

Quote from: Columba

Quote from: hansel
Our SSPX chapel had a French priest who decided that we should all stand, not kneel for the SANCTUS.

I do not have statistics, but it seems anecdotally that many more conservative American priests are being sent over seas to make way for an inundation of more liberal French priests, especially in the leadership positions. It feels like a kind of sly cultural imperialism.

Does anyone else notice such a trend or have access to the statistics?

Yes, +Williamson replaced at the Winona seminary by Fr. le Roux, Fr. Rostand made district superior, and many French priests placed as Priors in the USA. It is just the Menzingen crowd putting in the people they can trust to follow instructions.

Remember how they would always be moving priests around in the USA? Now we know the reason, it was so that those priests would not develop a following. You won't see them moving their new plants.

Columba · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2012, 12:12:13 PM »

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: Columba
Quote from: hansel
Our SSPX chapel had a French priest who decided that we should all stand, not kneel for the SANCTUS.

I do not have statistics, but it seems anecdotally that many more conservative American priests are being sent over seas to make way for an inundation of more liberal French priests, especially in the leadership positions. It feels like a kind of sly cultural imperialism.

Does anyone else notice such a trend or have access to the statistics?

Yes, +Williamson replaced at the Winona seminary by Fr. le Roux, Fr. Rostand made district superior, and many French priests placed as Priors in the USA. It is just the Menzingen crowd putting in the people they can trust to follow instructions.

Remember how they would always be moving priests around in the USA? Now we know the reason, it was so that those priests would not develop a following. You won't see them moving their new plants.

If what you say is true, then it seems like the leadership has been captured by a hostile force, perhaps an infiltration that lay dormant for a time and disguised itself.

Marlelar · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2012, 01:53:57 PM »

Quote from: hansel

Case in point: Our SSPX chapel had a French priest who decided that we should all stand, not kneel for the SANCTUS. (The more recent SSPX Missals have erased the instruction to kneel, but it is present in the Fr. LaSance Missal to kneel at the SANCTUS, one of the most reverent moments in preparation for the Consecration).

At our chapel we do kneel during a Low Mass but have been told not to "slide" off the pew, but to stand up momentarily first and then kneel. At the High Mass we stand during the singing and kneel afterwards. No one has been instructed to sing along w/the choir although some do so anyway.

Marsha

Raphaela · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2012, 03:50:03 PM »

The laity can do exactly what they like at Mass, as long as they are reverent and doesn't disturb others. According to Henry Davis, S.J., Moral and Pastoral Theology, 1935, you can go round the church making the Stations of the Cross, for example, although he recommends turning towards the altar for the Consecration.

The prescriptive idea, telling the laity what to do, saying they must all do the same thing, was never ordered by the (pre-Vatican II) Church but started to be promoted in the 1920's by the Liturgical Movement (they used it to promote their exaggerated idea of the priesthood of the laity and to demote the sacral priesthood, among other things). The liturgy of the SSPX in France and Germany is unfortunately very much influenced by the LM (dialogue Masses, uniformity, reduction of kneeling, etc.), as they are simply continuing what was being done in their respective countries in the early 1960's, where the LM had been influential for a very long time.

The LM had far less influence in England and the US, so these changes had scarcely been introduced before Vatican II. But attempts by the SSPX to introduce them now should be resisted at all costs. They are harmful to prayer and devotion, and historically are all part of the manipulation of the liturgy that led to the Novus Ordo.

I strongly believe that it has been the use of 1960's-type liturgy that has enabled the liberalisation of the SSPX to spread as it has, and there has been most resistance to this where the liturgy has been most "conservative", e.g. in England. (Lex orandi, lex credendi!)

Raphaela · « **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2012, 03:50:35 PM »

Quote from: Raphaela

The laity can do exactly what they like at Mass, as long as they are reverent and don't disturb others. According to Henry Davis, S.J., Moral and Pastoral Theology, 1935, you can go round the church making the Stations of the Cross, for example, although he recommends turning towards the altar for the Consecration.

The prescriptive idea, telling the laity what to do, saying they must all do the same thing, was never ordered by the (pre-Vatican II) Church but started to be promoted in the 1920's by the Liturgical Movement (they used it to further their exaggerated idea of the priesthood of the laity and to demote the sacral priesthood, among other things). The liturgy of the SSPX in France and Germany is unfortunately very much influenced by the LM (dialogue Masses, uniformity, reduction of kneeling, etc.), as they are simply continuing what was being done in their respective countries in the early 1960's, where the LM had been influential for a very long time.

The LM had far less influence in England and the US, so these changes had scarcely been introduced before Vatican II. But attempts by the SSPX to introduce them now should be resisted at all costs. They are harmful to prayer and devotion, and historically are all part of the manipulation of the liturgy that led to the Novus Ordo.

I strongly believe that it has been the use of 1960's liturgy and liturgical customs that has enabled the liberalisation of the SSPX to spread as it has, and there has been most resistance to this where the liturgy has been most "conservative", e.g. in England. (Lex orandi, lex credendi!)

Incredulous · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2012, 07:55:54 PM »

Quote from: Columba

Quote from: hansel
Our SSPX chapel had a French priest who decided that we should all stand, not kneel for the SANCTUS.

I do not have statistics, but it seems anecdotally that many more conservative American priests are being sent over seas to make way for an inundation of more liberal French priests, especially in the leadership positions. It feels like a kind of sly cultural imperialism.

Does anyone else notice such a trend or have access to the statistics?

One Region's Statistics:

5 SSPX US ordained priests.
Came from towns within a 200mi radius (Kentucky & Ohio)

1. Fr. T. Pfieffer -> Asia
2. Fr. J. Pfieffer -> Asia (expelled)
3. Fr. P. Robinson -> Australia
4. Fr. D. Themann -> St. Mary's
5. Fr. Pezzutti -> Latvia

The American priest export ratio in this region was 80%

Adolphus · « **Reply #12 on:** October 25, 2012, 07:55:55 PM »

Quote from: Lepanto Again

In the 1980's a holy victim soul, Father La Praz, revealed that the SSPX had Freemasons amongst them already. A word of warning to Bishop Williamson and company. The Freemasons will send their men to you also. Be prudent.

I have heard that before, but wonder why those who really know, don't give names, so the priests and the laity could be aware of those infiltrators.

OK, we aknowledge the existence of freemasons inside the SSPX. Then what? Why not to say Fr. A and Fr. B are freemasons and there are probably more?

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #13 on:** October 25, 2012, 08:26:15 PM »

Quote from: Marlelar

Quote from: hansel
Case in point: Our SSPX chapel had a French priest who decided that we should all stand, not kneel for the SANCTUS. (The more recent SSPX Missals have erased the instruction to kneel, but it is present in the Fr. LaSance Missal to kneel at the SANCTUS, one of the most reverent moments in preparation for the Consecration).

At our chapel we do kneel during a Low Mass but have been told not to "slide" off the pew, but to stand up momentarily first and then kneel. At the High Mass we stand during the singing and kneel afterwards. No one has been instructed to sing along w/the choir although some do so anyway.

So how about this:

The choir director is not doing a very good job, and does not want to have the
Tenor part sung, while Bass is added when someone shows up to sing it.
Meanwhile, the men with Tenor voices are relegated to double the Soprano an
octave lower, that is, below the Altos. So when a man comes to Mass and is not
welcome in the choir because he likes to sing the Tenor part - also, he knows that
octaves sound pretty compromised, if not just dumb. He stays in the pews, but
when the choir sings a motet or Kyriale or whatever and he knows the tenor part,
he can't help himself but to sing along, being the only Tenor voice in the room.
And nobody seems to notice, except the director, who comments later, without
saying that he should not have sung.

Is the Tenor breaking the rules?

Quote from: Adolphus

Quote from: Lepanto Again
In the 1980's a holy victim soul, Father La Praz, revealed that the SSPX had Freemasons amongst them already. A word of warning to Bishop Williamson and company. The Freemasons will send their men to you also. Be prudent.

I have heard that before, but wonder why those who really know, don't give names, so the priests and the laity could be aware of those infiltrators.

OK, we acknowledge the existence of freemasons inside the SSPX. Then what? Why not to say Fr. A and Fr. B are freemasons and there are probably more?

You don't even have to BE a Freemason to be one of the dirty workers doing their
bidding. They say John XXIII was a Freemason, well maybe he was, but even if
was NOT an actual member, he still did a lot of damage by doing the things that
he would have done anyway if he WAS one.

Two more things:

Freemasons retaliate, and the parishoners who know the score might be reluctant
to spill the beans because they might be put on the hit list and end up leaving their
wives widows and their children fatherless.

Bishop Williamson is not ignorant of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. He knows how to run some
routine exercises as part of everyday activities and requirements that evoke
telltale responses from his subjects. He is watching, and he keeps track. He won't
reveal his methods because then the methods would be obsolete. Rest assured
a Freemason is not very likely to get past his scrutiny. ..................

PAT317 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 25, 2012, 08:38:46 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: Adolphus
Quote from: Lepanto Again
In the 1980's a holy victim soul, Father La Praz, revealed that the SSPX had Freemasons amongst them already. A word of warning to Bishop Williamson and company. The Freemasons will send their men to you also. Be prudent.

I have heard that before, but wonder why those who really know, don't give names, so the priests and the laity could be aware of those infiltrators.

OK, we acknowledge the existence of freemasons inside the SSPX. Then what? Why not to say Fr. A and Fr. B are freemasons and there are probably more?

You don't even have to BE a Freemason to be one of the dirty workers doing their bidding. ....
Freemasons retaliate, ...
Bishop Williamson is not ignorant of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. ..................

Also, when I hear something like "In the 1980's a holy victim soul, Father La Praz, revealed that the SSPX had Freemasons amongst them already," to me it doesn't necessarily mean that Fr. La Praz knew who they were specifically, but maybe he just somehow knew that they already infiltrated. Plus, without proof about the names, most people would just dismiss the info anyway.