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Author Topic: Francis Isnt Done Yet:  (Read 3210 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


Offline StCeciliasGirl

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Francis Isnt Done Yet:
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2013, 10:08:45 PM »
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  • I can't believe this "survey" crap. He's not even pretending to be "vicar"; he thinks we all have a VOTE. I first saw it on Daily Kos: [Frank] Surprises Again. (NOT recommended reading!!!)

     :facepalm:

    Quote from: nbc news post

    Same-sex unions, mixed marriages, single-parent families and surrogate mothers are all mentioned in the prelude to a list of questions that get into the nitty-gritty of 21st century life:

    • "What pastoral attention can be given to people who live in these types of [same-sex] union?"
    • "In the case of unions of persons of the same sex who have adopted children, what can be done pastorally in light of transmitting the faith?"
    • "Do [the divorced and remarried] feel marginalized or suffer from the impossibility of receiving the sacraments?"
    • "In cases where non-practicing Catholics or declared non-believers request the celebration of marriage, describe how this pastoral challenge is dealt with."

    The survey is the latest sign of Francis' willingness to engage ordinary Catholics and promote a less judgmental approach to hot-button social issues.


    Really Frank? REALLY?!  :cussing:

    Marginalized? I bet the word "disenfranchised" is in there as well. I did a search "-Francis" (no Bergoglio items) on some of these keywords, and got this site, "Center for Humans and Nature" subtitled, "Expanding Our Natural and Civic Imagination", with this article: Beyond the Social Contract of Consumption.

    And I realized, 'Good God! It's Vatican 2!' (Not really, but that "being lulled to sleep" double-talk nature of both are the exact same.)

    And that "social contract" site makes COMMUNISM look good. Gracious they seem to think you can sprinkle faerie dust on humans and trees and we'll have a happy utopia! (Didn't read too much; not good for the soul.)

    Frank may have well written that social contract article. Who knows; there's no Frankisms (encyclicals) out there to compare. But if it sounds like "retarded Wojtyla", I pretty much think, "Yeah, that's Frank talking." So I think that's Frank writing that "social contract" article. Frank must have a double life; an alias. (And I'm not shocked. In fact... eh, nevermind.)

    This ...isht. —I didn't think the curse word; I said "Isht" in my mind  :smoke-pot:

    "Isht" is what I'm going to call V2 Modernist-speak from now on. It's non-sensical, has double-meanings, is "almost cursing"... ISHT = modernist-speak=Bergoglio.

    I think the ball's in Heaven's court now. We pray with Heaven and watch our backs.
    Legem credendi, lex statuit supplicandi

    +JMJ


    Offline SoldierOfChrist

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #2 on: November 05, 2013, 10:36:06 PM »
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  • This is a full transcription of the survey:

    Quote

    1. Please indicate your Diocese (if known) or Ordinariate from the drop-down list
    Please indicate your Diocese (if known) or Ordinariate from the drop-down list
    2. Please enter your town or city or the name and location of your parish:
    Please enter your town or city or the name and location of your parish:
    3. In what capacity are you making this response? Please tick all that apply
    In what capacity are you making this response? Please tick all that apply   Priest
       
    Lay person
       
    Parent
       
    Deacon
       
    Professed Religious
       
    Teacher
       
    Pastoral Assistant
       
    Catechist
       
    Seminarian
       
    Hospital Chaplain
       
    Prison Chaplain
       
    Military Chaplain
       
    Member of a Lay Association or Movement (please give details below)
       
    Other (please give details below)
    Further details:
    4. What is your marital status?
    What is your marital status?
    Other (please specify)
    5. How old are you?

    Q1. The Diffusion of the Teachings on the Family in Sacred Scripture and the Church’s Magisterium
        
    1. Question 1a: Describe how the Catholic Church's teachings on the value of the family contained in the Bible, Gaudium et Spes, Familiaris Consortio and other docuмents of the post-conciliar Magisterium is understood by people today? What formation is given to our people on the Church's teaching on family life?
    Question 1a: Describe how the Catholic Church's teachings on the value of the family contained in the Bible, Gaudium et Spes, Familiaris Consortio and other docuмents of the post-conciliar Magisterium is understood by people today? What formation is given to our people on the Church's teaching on family life?
    2. Question 1b: In those cases where the Church's teaching is known, is it accepted fully or are there difficulties in putting it into practice? If so, what are they?
    Question 1b: In those cases where the Church's teaching is known, is it accepted fully or are there difficulties in putting it into practice? If so, what are they?
    3. Question 1c: How widespread is the Church's teaching in pastoral programmes at the national, diocesan and parish levels? What catechesis is done on the family?
    Question 1c: How widespread is the Church's teaching in pastoral programmes at the national, diocesan and parish levels? What catechesis is done on the family?
    4. Question 1d: To what extent — and what aspects in particular — is this teaching actually known, accepted, rejected and/or criticized in areas outside the Church? What are the cultural factors which hinder the full reception of the Church’s teaching on the family?

    Q2. Marriage according to the Natural Law
        
    1. Question 2a: What place does the idea of the natural law have in the cultural areas of society: in institutions, education, academic circles and among the people at large? What anthropological ideas underlie the discussion on the natural basis of the family?
    Question 2a: What place does the idea of the natural law have in the cultural areas of society: in institutions, education, academic circles and among the people at large? What anthropological ideas underlie the discussion on the natural basis of the family?
    2. Question 2b: Is the idea of the natural law in the union between a man and a woman commonly accepted as such by the baptized in general?
    Question 2b: Is the idea of the natural law in the union between a man and a woman commonly accepted as such by the baptized in general?
    3. Question 2c: How is the theory and practice of natural law in the union between man and woman challenged in light of the formation of a family? How is it proposed and developed in civil and Church institutions?
    Question 2c: How is the theory and practice of natural law in the union between man and woman challenged in light of the formation of a family? How is it proposed and developed in civil and Church institutions?
    4. Question 2d: In cases where non-practising Catholics or declared non-believers request the celebration of marriage, describe how this pastoral challenge is dealt with?

    Q3. The Pastoral Care of the Family in Evangelization
        
    1. Question 3a: What experiences have emerged in recent decades regarding marriage preparation? What efforts are there to stimulate the task of evangelization of the couple and of the family? How can an awareness of the family as the "domestic Church" be promoted?
    Question 3a: What experiences have emerged in recent decades regarding marriage preparation? What efforts are there to stimulate the task of evangelization of the couple and of the family? How can an awareness of the family as the "domestic Church" be promoted?
    2. Question 3b: How successful have you been in proposing a manner of praying within the family which can withstand life’s complexities and today’s culture?
    Question 3b: How successful have you been in proposing a manner of praying within the family which can withstand life’s complexities and today’s culture?
    3. Question 3c: In the current generational crisis, how have Christian families been able to fulfil their vocation of transmitting the faith?
    Question 3c: In the current generational crisis, how have Christian families been able to fulfil their vocation of transmitting the faith?
    4. Question 3d: In what way have the local Churches and movements on family spirituality been able to create ways of acting which are exemplary?
    Question 3d: In what way have the local Churches and movements on family spirituality been able to create ways of acting which are exemplary?
    5. Question 3e: What specific contribution can couples and families make to spreading a credible and holistic idea of the couple and the Christian family today?
    Question 3e: What specific contribution can couples and families make to spreading a credible and holistic idea of the couple and the Christian family today?
    6. Question 3f: What pastoral care has the Church provided in supporting couples in formation and couples in crisis situations?

    Q4. Pastoral Care in Certain Difficult Marital Situations
         
    1. Question 4a: Is cohabitation ad experimentum a pastoral reality in your particular Church? Can you approximate a percentage?
    Question 4a: Is cohabitation ad experimentum a pastoral reality in your particular Church? Can you approximate a percentage?
    2. Question 4b: Do unions which are not recognized either religiously or civilly exist? Are reliable statistics available?
    Question 4b: Do unions which are not recognized either religiously or civilly exist? Are reliable statistics available?
    3. Question 4c: Are separated couples and those divorced and remarried a pastoral reality in your particular Church? Can you approximate a percentage? How do you deal with this situation in appropriate pastoral programmes?
    Question 4c: Are separated couples and those divorced and remarried a pastoral reality in your particular Church? Can you approximate a percentage? How do you deal with this situation in appropriate pastoral programmes?
    4. Question 4d: In all the above cases, how do the baptized live in this irregular situation? Are they aware of it? Are they simply indifferent? Do they feel marginalized or suffer from the impossibility of receiving the sacraments?
    Question 4d: In all the above cases, how do the baptized live in this irregular situation? Are they aware of it? Are they simply indifferent? Do they feel marginalized or suffer from the impossibility of receiving the sacraments?
    5. Question 4e: What questions do divorced and remarried people pose to the Church concerning the Sacraments of the Eucharist and of Reconciliation? Among those persons who find themselves in these situations, how many ask for these sacraments?
    Question 4e: What questions do divorced and remarried people pose to the Church concerning the Sacraments of the Eucharist and of Reconciliation? Among those persons who find themselves in these situations, how many ask for these sacraments?
    6. Question 4f: Could a simplification of canonical practice in recognizing a declaration of nullity of the marriage bond provide a positive contribution to solving the problems of the persons involved? If yes, what form would it take?
    Question 4f: Could a simplification of canonical practice in recognizing a declaration of nullity of the marriage bond provide a positive contribution to solving the problems of the persons involved? If yes, what form would it take?
    7. Question 4g: Does a ministry exist to attend to these cases? Describe this pastoral ministry? Do such programmes exist on the national and diocesan levels? How is God’s mercy proclaimed to separated couples and those divorced and remarried and how does the Church put into practice her support for them in their journey of faith?

    Q5. On Unions of Persons of the Same Sex
         
    1. Question 5a: Is there a law in your country recognizing civil unions for people of the same-sex and equating it in some way to marriage?
    Question 5a: Is there a law in your country recognizing civil unions for people of the same-sex and equating it in some way to marriage?
    2. Question 5b: What is the attitude of the local and particular Churches towards both the State as the promoter of civil unions between persons of the same sex and the people involved in this type of union?
    Question 5b: What is the attitude of the local and particular Churches towards both the State as the promoter of civil unions between persons of the same sex and the people involved in this type of union?
    3. Question 5c: What pastoral attention can be given to people who have chosen to live in these types of union?
    Question 5c: What pastoral attention can be given to people who have chosen to live in these types of union?
    4. Question 5d: In the case of unions of persons of the same sex who have adopted children, what can be done pastorally in light of transmitting the faith?

    Q6. The Education of Children in Irregular Marriages
         
    1. Question 6a: What is the estimated proportion of children and adolescents in these cases, as regards children who are born and raised in regularly constituted families?
    Question 6a: What is the estimated proportion of children and adolescents in these cases, as regards children who are born and raised in regularly constituted families?
    2. Question 6b: How do parents in these situations approach the Church? What do they ask? Do they request the sacraments only or do they also want catechesis and the general teaching of religion?
    Question 6b: How do parents in these situations approach the Church? What do they ask? Do they request the sacraments only or do they also want catechesis and the general teaching of religion?
    3. Question 6c: How do the particular Churches attempt to meet the needs of the parents of these children to provide them with a Christian education?
    Question 6c: How do the particular Churches attempt to meet the needs of the parents of these children to provide them with a Christian education?
    4. Question 6d: What is the sacramental practice in these cases: preparation, administration of the sacrament and the accompaniment?

    Q7. The Openness of the Married Couple to Life
         
    1. Question 7a: What knowledge do Christians have today of the teachings of Humanae vitae on responsible parenthood? Are they aware of how morally to evaluate the different methods of family planning? Could any insights be suggested in this regard pastorally?
    Question 7a: What knowledge do Christians have today of the teachings of Humanae vitae on responsible parenthood? Are they aware of how morally to evaluate the different methods of family planning? Could any insights be suggested in this regard pastorally?
    2. Question 7b: Is this moral teaching accepted? What aspects pose the most difficulties in a large majority of couple’s accepting this teaching?
    Question 7b: Is this moral teaching accepted? What aspects pose the most difficulties in a large majority of couple’s accepting this teaching?
    3. Question 7c: What natural methods are promoted by the particular Churches to help spouses put into practice the teachings of Humanae vitae?
    Question 7c: What natural methods are promoted by the particular Churches to help spouses put into practice the teachings of Humanae vitae?
    4. Question 7d: What is your experience on this subject in the practice of the Sacrament of Penance and participation at the Eucharist?
    Question 7d: What is your experience on this subject in the practice of the Sacrament of Penance and participation at the Eucharist?
    5. Question 7e: What differences are seen in this regard between the Church’s teaching and civic education?
    Question 7e: What differences are seen in this regard between the Church’s teaching and civic education?
    6. Question 7f: How can a more open attitude towards having children be fostered? How can an increase in births be promoted?

    Q8. The Relationship Between the Family and the Person
     
    1. Question 8a: Jesus Christ reveals the mystery and vocation of the human person. How can the family be a privileged place for this to happen?
    Question 8a: Jesus Christ reveals the mystery and vocation of the human person. How can the family be a privileged place for this to happen?
    2. Question 8b: What critical situations in the family today can obstruct a person’s encounter with Christ?
    Question 8b: What critical situations in the family today can obstruct a person’s encounter with Christ?
    3. Question 8c: To what extent do the many crises of faith which people can experience affect family life?

    Q9. Other Challenges and Proposals
        
    1. Question 9: What other challenges or proposals related to the topics in the above questions do you consider urgent and useful to treat?
    Question 9: What other challenges or proposals related to the topics in the above questions do you consider urgent and useful to treat?
    2. if you have any further comments to make about this consultation please do so here
    if you have any further comments to make about this consultation please do so here
    3. If you would like, please leave your name and contact email here, so that you can be contacted, if necessary, to clarify your responses.
    If you would like, please leave your name and contact email here, so that you can be contacted, if necessary, to clarify your responses.   Name:   
    Email Address:   

    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #3 on: November 05, 2013, 11:25:21 PM »
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  • I haven't seen neuro-toxic neologisms like that since I had to drink my way through a semester of sociology at a Jesuit college in the 60s.

    These loons still use those idiotic terms and that awful grammar?

    Anyone filling that crap out will lose 25 IQ points by the time they're finished - guaranteed!

     :alcohol:

    Offline ggreg

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 02:50:48 AM »
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  • There will be huge bias in the results because it will fail to take into account anyone who is even semi busy.  Who has time to answer those questions and how do you even interpret what some of them mean?


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 07:44:20 AM »
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  • How much did the pay the firm to come up with this?  
    In the Camden diocese , nj.  The no spent over $20,000 to a California secular firm to learn that most Catholics in the area don't know the Catholic faith.
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline JPaul

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 07:47:38 AM »
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  • Please!   Tell us what sins actively prevail in your neck of the woods and we will see if we can make some pastoral(doctrinal) adjustments.


    Offline Charlemagne

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 11:29:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: Anthony Benedict
    I haven't seen neuro-toxic neologisms like that since I had to drink my way through a semester of sociology at a Jesuit college in the 60s.

    These loons still use those idiotic terms and that awful grammar?

    Anyone filling that crap out will lose 25 IQ points by the time they're finished - guaranteed!

     :alcohol:


    I agree. I've been a technical editor for many years, and the grammar and sentence structure in that docuмent is atrocious. Maybe the "bishops" should stick to dancing.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline magdalena

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 02:15:37 PM »
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  • The conciliar "Church" is really forcing us to stretch the limits of credulity in accepting Francis as Pope.  
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 04:21:11 PM »
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  • If you don't like these questions, wait until you see the end results...  

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 06:23:57 PM »
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  • He needs to add to the survey the question of whether or not we believe him to be a heretic.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 06:58:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    He needs to add to the survey the question of whether or not we believe him to be a heretic.





      "Ooops... forgot that one!"
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline magdalena

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #12 on: November 06, 2013, 09:27:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    He needs to add to the survey the question of whether or not we believe him to be a heretic.





      "Ooops... forgot that one!"


    "If it looks like a duck...."
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline copticruiser

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #13 on: November 06, 2013, 10:30:59 PM »
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  • Wait and see maybe the pope is just fishing. Who knows where  this will end.

    Your friendly canadian :farmer:

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Francis Isnt Done Yet:
    « Reply #14 on: November 09, 2013, 12:45:05 AM »
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  • .

    How do you suggest dealing with a headache when drugs don't work
    anymore?  

    I didn't even get halfway through that pile of garbage and already
    I've got a real doozie.

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.