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Author Topic: Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!  (Read 3409 times)

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Offline stevusmagnus

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Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
« on: July 18, 2012, 11:09:03 PM »
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  • http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/07/of-anger-management-benedict-xvi-and-the-sspx-wherein-fr-z-imagines-dire-things/

    Of Anger Management, Benedict XVI and the SSPX. Wherein Fr. Z imagines dire things.

    Posted on 18 July 2012 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

    Do the SSPXers think that Pope Benedict is so patient and kindly that he would never withdraw his outstretched hand?

    Perhaps that is it.  Maybe that is why they dawdle and find excuses not to accept what the Holy See has offered and have a canonical structure of their own.

    It would be a mistake to think Benedict’s patience is endless.

    My old mentor, the late Msgr. Schuler, was calm guy, unruffled by most things. Even in the face of drastic challenges, he was cool. I only saw him angry twice. His face changed. It was scary.  Happily, he wasn’t angry at me!

    My old mentor, the late Card. Mayer, was a calm guy. He was a monk, and old. He was battle-hardened. He had seen it all. He was the holiest man I have ever known.  I only saw him angry once. He didn’t raise his voice. It left a deep impression on me, to be sure.  Happily, he wasn’t angry at me!

    I used to talk with Card. Ratzinger pretty frequently, years back. I’d pick his brains. I’d talk to him about horrible things written about him. I would challenge and disagree and demure. I never saw him angry.  I haven’t really heard of him showing strong anger either.  I know people who knowPapa Ratzinger better than I.  Everyone who knows him affirms that His Holiness is kind, and calm, and patient and sweet-tempered guy. He has the level-head and level-spirit that allows the workings of the theological virtues and the fruits of the Holy Ghost.

    I can imagine, however, that if he got to the point where he was actually angry at someone or about something, there could be instant and sharp consequences.

    The fact is, even level-headed and holy men get angry.

    Let us turn our thoughts now to the followers of Lefebvre.

    The Holy Father has offered the SSPX, through the CDF, point after point and chance after chance.  He has offered them pretty much everything they need.

    Some will say, “But Father! But Father! The Second Vatican Council….”

    NO!  He has.  He really has.  There are ways to work through the problematic issues raised by Vatican II within the Church and those avenues would be open to the SSPX.

    I think that what the SSPX has done in regard to the “Doctrinal Preamble” and the Pope’s overtures could be quite … vexing.  Their maneuvers might vex a saint.

    The Holy Father is about the last man on earth who would need anger management.  I fear, nevertheless, that the SSPX will manage to make him angry.

    I read statements from the SSPX leadership and watch the temporizing and listen to their musings about “Eternal Rome”, as if they were the lone true ones, being truer to a truthier Church than Pope Benedict could ever fathom, and I can well imagine Pope Benedict getting more and more annoyed.

    And we know how Benedict works.  He thinks through a problem patiently and then – BAM! – he moves.  That’s what happened with two of the big things in his pontificate: Summorum Pontificuм and the Anglican Ordinariates.  There was lots of opposition, but he wanted them.  He consulted, bided his time and – BAM! - they happened.  In the first year of his pontificate he simply slashed several days off the schedule of the meeting of that sacred cow of collegiality, the Synod of Bishops.  He just did it.  In one year’s time Benedict has moved 4 bishops from their sees.

    I resonate with a great deal of what the SSPX stands for and wants.  I believe the priests of the Society to be zealous for the salvation of souls. They have so much to contribute!  But as much as I have sympathy for most of their concerns, sometimes they remind me of a bunch of brooding Batman villains.  I long to say to them, “If you vex Benedict enough - BAM!  You guys are going to learn what it means to be on the business end of schism.”

    I hope they don’t slap Benedict’s outstretched hand away.  The other hand won’t be so nice.

    Please, Society, please.  Don’t blow this.

    In ancient times Opportunity was personified as a beautiful woman with very long hair in front but with a bald head in back.  The idea was that we must catch hold of Opportunity when she approaches, because when she has passed there is nothing to hold her by.

    Seize your opportunity with both hands, men.

    Submit to the Vicar of Christ.

    Benedict XVI is the Pope of Christian Unity.


    Offline AntiFellayism

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 12:16:05 AM »
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  • Don't take it personally but should we really even acknowledge someone so pathetic as "Fr. Z"???

    I mean don't we have enough neo-conservartives infiltrated within the neo-sspx to deal with?!

    Let "Fr. Z, Rorate, EWTN, Le Croix, etc." be concerned about our "schism" while the head of the doctrine and faith deny dogmas of our holy Catholic Faith; and let's remember the person who appointed is worse than the appointee.

    "Grab on my stretched out hand otherwise the other hand might punish you, dear SSPX!"

    But it is funny how the focolare, charismatics, neo-cathecuмenal way, liberation's theology, the anglicans, etc., have yet not seen the Pope's punish hand, isn't it "Fr. Z" ???


    How pathetic...



    Non Habemus Papam


    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #2 on: July 19, 2012, 12:46:38 AM »
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  • This unsurprising excursion into editorial piffelry only demonstrates why, in those days, that it came to pass that one moderator of a traditional Catholic forum was wont to rise up and command that, henceforth and forevermore, no more posts by or about "ZLEEP!" would be tolerated.  Anathema sit!

    Anyway, the priest who writes this gobbledygook really ought to be on FOODTV.

    He at least knows Italian food and wine.  Which is more than can be said for his knowledge of metaphysics, modernism or the garden variety nicompoopery being passed around as "church teaching" these days.

    Offline Roland Deschain

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #3 on: July 19, 2012, 06:43:27 AM »
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  • Father Z is an enemy of Holy Mother Church, in other words: a neo-catholic modernist.

    I'm sometimes amazed how ex-protestants can go from one extreme to the other: hyper-papism.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #4 on: July 19, 2012, 07:23:34 AM »
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  • To the three folks who thumbed down the original post:

    By hitting thumbs down, you are not thumbing down the article (which I agree is completely absurd - hence my sarcastic title of the thread), you are thumbing down ME PERSONALLY.

    If you thumbs down something I myself posted, my own thoughts, be my guest. But I'm just the messenger here. I think Fr. Z's post is ludicrous and posted it to display his ludicrosity for the entire board to see. It is Neo-Cath argument from authority/ Neo-Ultramontanism at its finest!


    Offline zviadist

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #5 on: July 19, 2012, 08:59:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/07/of-anger-management-benedict-xvi-and-the-sspx-wherein-fr-z-imagines-dire-things/


    Benedict XVI is the Pope of Christian Unity.


    Hmmm, I thought he was supposed to be the Pope of the Holy Catholic Church.


    Offline bernadette

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 09:47:45 AM »
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  • Brilliantly written piece by Fr. Z isn't it?  He uses such lofty terms, such elegant and intelligent words!  See:

    <<<My old mentor, the late Msgr. Schuler, was calm guy, unruffled by most things. Even in the face of drastic challenges, he was cool.>>>

    A calm "guy"?  He was "cool"?  Is he writing to appeal to teenagers?

    <<<Everyone who knows him affirms that His Holiness is kind, and calm, and patient and sweet-tempered guy.>>>

    The pope is a sweet tempered "guy"....oh, lord have mercy....

    <<<And we know how Benedict works.  He thinks through a problem patiently and then – BAM! – he moves.>>>

    Yes, extraordinarily brilliant writing!  Let me look up "BAM" in the dictionary...

     <<<They have so much to contribute!  But as much as I have sympathy for most of their concerns, sometimes they remind me of a bunch of brooding Batman villains.  I long to say to them, “If you vex Benedict enough - BAM!  You guys are going to learn what it means to be on the business end of schism.” >>>

    An eloquent paragraph reflecting the elevated state of humankind in the modern era!  Honestly...the best comparison he could give was "Batman villians"?  Clearly Fr. Z is greatly influenced by television!  Can anyone really take him seriously?

    <<<Please, Society, please.  Don’t blow this.>>>

    Thank you for the sound advice, I am sure it won't be wasted on the ignorant.

     

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 10:12:14 AM »
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  • Why is Fr. Z. pushing so hard for a deal?  

    What is the motivation for New Rome?  

    On another point, what would become of the SSPX if they made a deal and Card. Mueller (new head of CDF) becomes the next pope?  The college of cardinals is 70 men and it may only take 15-19 votes to capture the papacy.  I apologize for being so brisk about the election but with the last 5 popes, we do have to face the hard facts.  

    And the hardest fact of all is that Card. Mueller could very well be the next pope if he's an amiable guy who is well liked by his fellow cardinals and he would only require 15-19 votes to hold th majority because Card Z could vote for Card A while Card A votes for Card B and when the dust settles....

    ....it's the new pope, Card. Mueller who would probably be John Paul III or maybe even John XXIV - just musing on my part.

    Then, with pope mueller - what would become of the SSPX then?

    So, back to my very first question....   Why is this so important to Fr. Z????


    Offline Emerentiana

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #8 on: July 19, 2012, 10:22:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    To the three folks who thumbed down the original post:

    By hitting thumbs down, you are not thumbing down the article (which I agree is completely absurd - hence my sarcastic title of the thread), you are thumbing down ME PERSONALLY.

    If you thumbs down something I myself posted, my own thoughts, be my guest. But I'm just the messenger here. I think Fr. Z's post is ludicrous and posted it to display his ludicrosity for the entire board to see. It is Neo-Cath argument from authority/ Neo-Ultramontanism at its finest!


    Stevus,
    If you dont want to be thumbed down, than stop posting articles about priests and events of the Novus Ordo Church.  This is a traditional Catholic forum, and most of us do not care what goes on in the Novus Church.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #9 on: July 19, 2012, 10:45:46 AM »
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  • Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: stevusmagnus
    To the three folks who thumbed down the original post:

    By hitting thumbs down, you are not thumbing down the article (which I agree is completely absurd - hence my sarcastic title of the thread), you are thumbing down ME PERSONALLY.

    If you thumbs down something I myself posted, my own thoughts, be my guest. But I'm just the messenger here. I think Fr. Z's post is ludicrous and posted it to display his ludicrosity for the entire board to see. It is Neo-Cath argument from authority/ Neo-Ultramontanism at its finest!


    Stevus,
    If you dont want to be thumbed down, than stop posting articles about priests and events of the Novus Ordo Church.  This is a traditional Catholic forum, and most of us do not care what goes on in the Novus Church.


    But it does make for some interesting ready.   :cool:


    Offline Roland Deschain

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #10 on: July 19, 2012, 11:32:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: bernadette
    Brilliantly written piece by Fr. Z isn't it?  He uses such lofty terms, such elegant and intelligent words!  See:

    <<<My old mentor, the late Msgr. Schuler, was calm guy, unruffled by most things. Even in the face of drastic challenges, he was cool.>>>

    A calm "guy"?  He was "cool"?  Is he writing to appeal to teenagers?



     


    Have you ever read the comments section of his articles? I'd say he knows his audience.


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #11 on: July 19, 2012, 11:35:48 AM »
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  • Why is Fr. Z pushing so hard for the SSPX to join the novus ordo?

    Offline Ferdinand

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #12 on: July 19, 2012, 12:15:00 PM »
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  • "Fr. Z" (likely Mr. Z due to his dubious ordination) has a guilty conscience, plain and simple.  

    If we join him in the V2 brothel his pangs of conscience might be somewhat subdued.

    Offline finegan

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #13 on: July 19, 2012, 01:20:48 PM »
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  • So "Father Z" demands that the SSPX submit to the Vicar of Christ? Well, we should go him one better and demand that the current Vicar of Christ submit to CHRIST by dropping all of this modernist nonsense and returning to the true Catholic faith. I'm sure that is not what Father Z has in mind. He needs to stick to the recipes and Roman name-dropping he's so good at.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Fr. Z Demands the Society Submit to the Vicar of Christ!
    « Reply #14 on: July 19, 2012, 02:47:56 PM »
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  • Are we supposed to be impressed with Msgr. Schuler, Card. Mayer, Card. Ratzinger?

    What good is worrying about how mere men behave when they get upset about
    something: His face changed. It was scary.  He didn’t raise his voice. It left a deep
    impression on me, to be sure.  There could be instant and sharp consequences, holy
    men get angry, and then – BAM! – he moves.  He simply slashed several days off the
    schedule.

    Has Fr. Z thought much about how God is going to act when it's judgment day, and
    Msgr. Schuler, Card. Mayer and Card. Ratzinger have to answer for their suppression
    of the Canonized Latin Rite Mass and Apostolic Tradition?

    ... Or, for Fr. Z's complicity in their dereliction?

    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.