Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Matthew on February 26, 2016, 10:41:52 PM
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Preamble: I am taking the time to evaluate a life of three years in Boston, Ky in order to expose the dangers that lurk in that compound. All that I write can be verified by seminarians who departed ways with Fr. Pfeiffer. This exposition is meant to correct and help perfect what is going on in that site. A saintly priest and confessor of mine, Fr. Thomas D' Amato used to repeat: "Father, there is no perfection without correction." Fraternal Correction is an act of charity and so I will write. There are five parts to this exposition: 1) Order vs. Disorder; 2) Self-centeredness vs. Christ-centeredness; 3) Heart's expression in Criticism of others but not of self; 4) Illegitimate effort vs. true resistance; 5) Heresy, lay investiture, Protestantism in effect. On to the first topic.
1. Order vs Disorder
Order is the first sign of a celestial imitation. In heaven we will find perfect order and so in a seminary the entire effort must be to place such an order in the work that the seminarian can focus upon the work and word of God. Without any backing, without any novena of prayer and without a bishop to sanction the project, Father opened a seminary (?) with a would be cook, a musician, a recent high school graduate and an elderly gentleman. From the beginning there was a lack of professors so the high school graduate became the Latin professor though he possessed possibly 4 years of study himself. The two fathers would go out each weekend and sometimes be missing for a week at a time in Asia and around the world. When one returned then classes took place. In the meantime, mass could be missed; prayer life suffered; but the men carried on in spite of the disorder.
One seminarian took sick and could not seem to get better. Age, sickness and other circuмstances argued that the man had no vocation to the priesthood so Father decided he should be a brother. Next disorder: hold onto the numbers and follow the pattern of preparation that exists in Winona. It seemed that the structure was modeled on SSPX for the reception of the cassock, the outings, and the scheduling but it was a very loose match. Fr. Hewko arranged hikes but this was not a good group for that type of outing only one had the stamina necessary so Father took a supplement of Father Pfeiffer's nephews.
My point: Father Pfeiffer bit off more than he could chew and kept wanting more and more. Instead of a prudent evaluation of the place, the personnel, and the lack of legitimacy he plowed on getting deeper and deeper in the mud of activity. The more he was out; the more difficult the program became. I could only think and express my view when I visited during weekends or during school breaks. I cannot remember Father calling even one meeting to iron out problems or to coordinate with Fr. Hewko.
In fact Fr. Hewko never really knew when he would be teaching or where he would be going for the next weekend. I could not believe my eyes at what went on there for the preparation of seminarians in that first year.
When the second year came around, the manner in which you begin determines the way you will end. Again I pleaded for a meeting to organize. Fr. Hewko agreed that much had to be changed. We now had a good number of men entering the seminary and they had promise. The problems were never ironed out and the seminary went on. Conflicts began to take place with Bishop Williamson because Fr. Pfeiffer always knew better. This conflict could have been resolved with an increase of humility but with all his important travels and his desire to open more and more mass sites power began to go to this priest's head. Power corrupts and with no leader but himself, Fr. Pfeiffer could do whatever came into his head.
Seminarians should work all night in preparation for whatever great event was on hand. No matter if they could not get up the next morning for meditation and mass. Priority number one is to please Fr. Pfeiffer. These young men did their best but most were incompetent workers. The fact is that whim determined everything that happened in their seminary life and in the end the disorder and the conflict with the "boss" caused each one to speak with Father and then to depart from him.
Correction of the situation: First, there should be no seminary unless it has a bishop who erects it and directs it through a seminary director who should remain at the site. Second, the schedule of the seminary needs to be worked out clearly so that the courses are consistent and the prayer life regular. Third, no layman should be placed in charge of the seminarians only a priest.
2. Boston, Kentucky evaluation: Christ centered vs. Self centered.
Fr. Libietis made an astute observation concerning the project that Fr. Pfeiffer began when he stated that all those in the Church who resisted the world's call went into seclusion and prayed for the guidance of the Holy Ghost. These men were truly Christ centered and their missions flourished because they dealt with their personal sanctity first before they sought to help their fellowman.
Boston, Ky did not have the same beginning. When I arrived in Boston, Ky I was alone and I worked daily with Mr. Jack Pfeiffer to clean up and repair one thing at a time. It was months before Fr. Pfeiffer came and then Fr. Hewko followed later. The priests' house was painted, floor repaired, new refrigerator installed. All was put in order and closets were cleaned of dead priests possessions. When the other fathers arrived they had places for their lodging. Work proceeded but the talk of a seminary was only in the mind of Fr. Pfeiffer but no novena took place, no discernment of the spirit came into discussion. In fact, the whim was the philosophy of the leader. "If it's worth doing; it is worth doing badly." This quote of Fr. Pfeiffer is the foundation stone of all that took place.
Reality began to set in when I saw that Fr. Pfeiffer would easily excuse himself from the prescribed times for prayer. His hectic schedule, his constant concern for phone calls, and his personal life style were things that I had never seen before in my religious life. Unless he takes the time to put prayer and meditation as priority number one he will continue in his self-centered approach to everything. The order is backward. As Christians we must focus our efforts upon the glory of God and the salvation of souls. His focus has been on showing off his intelligence and his ability to critique.
Consider that every evening there is the grand silence which ought to exist in every seminary. In Boston I lived above Father's living room and had to invest in some ear plugs due to talking that went on to all hours of the night. When I woke in the morning to head to the chapel I would find Father lying on the couch dressed in the same white cassock he had been wearing for days. I couldn't help but think that if he would go to his private room and put some order into his living schedule he would be better off and would serve others in a more orderly and Christ-like manner.
In a truly Catholic seminary the priority must focus on the knowledge and love of the Most Holy Eucharist as noted in The Soul of the Apostolate. Since the superior informs the inferior our seminary leader (Fr. Pfeiffer) must learn to be the example at prayer and limit himself to formation of these young men rather than travel throughout the states seeking to do as many centers as possible.
3. The Critical Tongue vs. the Tongue of an Advocate.
At the center of the life in Kentucky was the daily criticism of any and all priests or bishops that did not listen to the wisdom of the "soul" of the resistance (Fr. Pfeiffer). Pride goes before every fall and pride manifests itself in the speech of the person. How often I have found this truth born out: "Small minds speak of people, mediocre minds of things and events, but great minds speak of ideals."
The focus was upon Bishop Fellay, at first, and no doubt his 180 degree turn from the principles of the good Archbishop was a singular sore spot for all of us. Our desire was to preserve the tradition of the Archbishop and to reinforce this love among those who would come to and embrace the resistance to this betrayal.
When a new member (pablo the M_exican) came into Boston, this focus began to change little by little. Criticism of the Traditional "sissies" became a daily affair. Neither Father Pfeiffer or Hewko would correct this divisive talk from Pablo. When this person entered into a full time occupation of the priests' home, I complained to Fr. Pfeiffer but my point that the priests' house is for priests and that this layman was out of place there. It was useless to waste my breath. I would come to learn that Pablo could do no wrong.
Now the poison of this man's tongue has set Fr. Pfeiffer against priests and bishops and effectively has driven a wedge in the resistance community. In fact, the words of Quo Primum have been wiped out recently by Fr. Pfeiffer who believes that every resistant parish or place of worship is his private domain and only he can determine who can offer the mass there for the souls. This in turn means that a chapel may have the holy mass once every two or three months. This is contrary to the very notion of Catholic. There are other good priests who are working to preserve the faith but in Fr. Pfeiffer's world they must pass his test of their "doctrine'”. Who ever heard of such a thing?
Besides that the good Bishop Williamson is critiqued on everything without a semblance of Christian charity which urges us to "say only the good things men need to hear and all else is from the evil one." Boston does not want to expose its dirty laundry to the world but it can critique the every speck of dust in the other man's eye while the log in their own eye is neglected. Its desired transparency is a ruse. Its openness to others was short lived and now the cult of the leader begins to be felt by the world of the resistance. If only humility could reign in the "boss", then most of the problems would be solved by simply communicating with the bishops and following their advice.
This has not happened and so Bishop Williamson is correct desiring a leaderless resistance. Authority which ought to come from God to the Pope then to the bishops does not exist any longer. We all must adapt in a manner which seeks sacrificial love as its criterion for work and word. Hence it behooves us to cooperate with the bishops and thank God for their presence. We welcome our newly consecrated Bishop Don Thomas Aquinas and submit to his guidance. We should shut down all rude and de-moralizing sites which only destroy the faith. Only in this way can we continue to trust each other to do the Will of God in these confusing times.
4. Is the Layman the "boss"?
The superior informs the inferiors as the good Archbishop taught but few understand and practice this principle. Seminarians need a holy priest to keep the goal of their lives before them. They do not need a layman who abuses, complains about them, ridicules and berates them. They do not need a non-practicing baptized Catholic generating hatred in the atmosphere of the seminary.
As Jack Pfeiffer said to me: "My son and Pablo are joined at the hip. If I send Pablo away I am sure that I will lose my son." Well, the reality is that Mr. Pfeiffer has already lost his son to the "boss". Lay investiture is something that is an error but in the case of Pablo it is a sickness in the "boss". He will not and can not correct the abusive nature of the layman.
It is due to the machinations of this layman that I personally had to leave the Boston, Ky site because hatred and sin not checked by the superior do not make for an healthy environment. I have already shared an open letter
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Open-Letter-from-Fr-Voigt-about-Boston-KY-mess
describing how I was asked to work with the seminarians while the two Fathers went to the Philippines. The insulting behavior of the layman and his acts to undermine my priestly authority were neither corrected by Father Pfeiffer nor was there any apology for his conduct.
Daily the layman takes over more and more territory. He has brought into the mix a family without the father. The father of this family wants his children and wife back but Pablo continues to mock him, denigrate him before his children and glorifies the independence of the wife. All of this under the careful eye of the "boss".
It is this layman that has given Father a black eye for Father cannot see well enough to release this man from his position and trust that God will accomplish the work if it is necessary for souls' salvation. There is much that I could relate concerning the manner in which this man operates but it would take a book. I can say that what I have written is only the tip of the iceberg and that I receive emails from souls of Catholics who have experienced his "strong-tongued" tactics in their own regards. He has no qualm of conscience to threaten and to detract if it works for his good.
5. Pastor to the World on whose authority?
Is it possible for one priest to serve the world? It is a silly question but it also silly for a priest to bite off more than he can chew. It was funny to watch the operations of this priest with a phone here and a phone there. Every device was operative so that he could take on the problems everywhere. Fr. Chazal was incompetent in Asia and so our hero had to visit there at least twice a year to put things back in order. The multiplication of mass sites went up on a map of the United States in order to see how he might make as many sites in a weekend as possible.
In the end flight schedules were a nightmare because we had to do two or more sites in one day. Many places received the priest and mass was offered and then down to the airport to go to another place for evening mass. It was crazy. But if something is worth doing it is worth doing badly.
Our question is: who determined that one priest should take on the world apostolate? Was there some kind of commission offered to him that no bishop recognized? Did he take this on himself? Just as there is no legitimacy to the work of a seminary; so too there is no legitimacy to his trips around the world. Who pays? On any whim again he will take off in the shiny new world airlines and arrive to solve the problem of even one family who calls upon him to baptize their child.
In the end he becomes his own enemy and priest after priest become sick of the manner in which he operates. No other priest has come to his aid. He will allow bishops to be slighted; priests to be maligned; and lay leaders to be mocked, spat upon and whipped with vicious words from a man whom he cannot control.
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What is surprising is that almost nobody seems to have heard anything negative about him concerning his time in the SSPX. I did, despite being in India.
First, Frs Chazal/Pfeiffer and then Frs T. and J.Pfeiffer were entrusted with the newly created SSPX Mumbai Priory at Vasai. And where did it go within less than two years?
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I must commend Father's expose. It is charitable.
But shouldn't we stand back, look at the litany of complaints and understand the demonic nature of it all?
The "Pablo/pfeiffer" entity is not normal.
There have been a multitude of warning signs for those with eyes to see.
Pablo/pfeiffer represents a Rasputinesque infiltration of a well established traditional Catholic site.
The Pablo/pfeiffer aura, has confused, paralyzed and dispersed chapel family and friends in a most unnatural way.
The practical effect of the Pablo/pfieffer phenomenon has been to create chaos, disorder and despair within the natural Catholic "resistance" movement.
The unlikely Pablo/pfeiffer team defies all logic, and this proves it's of dark, supernatural design.
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The resistance was meant to be a loose association. If you do not like the style of one priest or one outfit, you find another. Fr. Voigt is free to form his own; he originally bought into the Boston apostolate based on certain criteria and decided it was not for him. Priests have been weighing up the pros and cons of associating with other traditional entities for decades. They come and they go. Leaving is invariably done with a bad taste in the mouth and a list of grievances as long as your arm. The best working structure is self-employment unless one easily falls out with oneself!
No, it's not that simple. It's not as simple as "it wasn't a good fit for me; I'll just move on with my life." Nice of you to place yourself above Fr. Voigt as his judge, though. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic)
If you left or got fired from a place, but you learned as an employee that they had actual slaves from third world countries in the basement doing various work, wouldn't it be your duty to expose and eliminate this evil?
Yes, in the world of employment there are many fish in the sea, and most of the time you "move on" after terminating one job (whether you quit or got fired), even if your boss was totally in the wrong and/or a total jerk. Some people aren't meant to get along with each other. Even if you were forced out of your job, given only 2 or 3 hours to work each week, etc. there's usually not much you can do about it. Just give up and move on.
But the Boston, KY situation goes far beyond that. Scroll up one or two and read Incredulous' post. He hit the nail on the head.
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Fr. Voigt was telling the absolute truth when he said this was the "tip of the iceberg". He wasn't bluffing or exaggerating there.
For example, he didn't talk much on the important and grave issue that Fr. Pfeiffer considers himself not just the head of the Resistance, but the ENTIRE Resistance itself. He does consider himself a de-facto pope -- what else would you call the supreme arbiter of every priest's doctrine on a universal scale?
Also, Fr. Voigt was going to add another section on the Ambrose Moran affair, during which MANY RED LINES were crossed from a perspective of Catholic doctrine. Fr. Pfeiffer wants to talk about priests with doctrinal issues? He has a beam in his eye the size of a telephone pole.
But looking at the situation objectively, you can see that Fr. Pfeiffer only approves of "his" priests as an option for Mass. His list of "true priests" is laughably short, and excludes way more priests than it should. Anyone not in union with Rome Boston, KY doesn't make the cut.
He poisons people against Fr. Voigt all over the United States. I've seen it personally, and Fr. Voigt has listed many other locations where Fr. Pfeiffer has told the people that Fr. Voigt is a "danger to the Faith" and commanded them to avoid Fr. Voigt's Masses. So these people obediently stay home on Sunday, where they could go to Fr. Voigt's Mass on many of those "off Sundays". They get Mass every 8 or 10 weeks from Fr. Pfeiffer/Hewko instead.
That, my friends, is an evil. Right out of the depths of Hell. Taking away the Holy Sacrifice from Catholics. Kind of like what Vatican II did in a permanent fashion! Or to put it another way: For these particular devout Catholics, Fr. Pfeiffer has done what Vatican II couldn't do: take away the true Mass from their life.
To judge the level of evil of this sectarian, politically-motivated home-aloneism, just meditate on the sublimity of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Think about what the Mass is, and how infinite its graces are. Think about how the Church knows weak human nature, and that we need the graces of the Mass on a WEEKLY basis. Therefore the Church makes it part of Her law (the Sunday obligation).
Think about what Our Lord thinks of us attending Mass every Sunday, and receiving Him in Holy Communion, especially the young and innocent. There is a booklet called "I Wait For You" which deals with this particular element of Our Lord's will. He ardently desires that we receive Him in Holy Communion. He ardently waits for us to spend time before the Blessed Sacrament, to speak with Him, and of course to receive Him as often as possible in Holy Communion.
What do you think Our Lord would think of a priest who conspires to get hundreds of Catholics to skip tens of thousands of Communions at perfectly good Masses? Do you think He will find this priest blameless? I think not.
Notice I said "priest". Pablo might have been the "origin" of the evil, but that evil has spread now to a priest in Holy Orders. That is also quite grave. The devil tempted Judas to betray Our Lord, but that didn't totally erase Judas' guilt for giving in to that temptation and making the evil his own. Judas is guilty of what he did; he can't just point his finger to the devil and blame him 100% for what happened. Nor can Fr. Pfeiffer blame Pablo for influencing him to become more militant and aggressive towards his fellow Resistant priests and bishops.
Pablo has convinced and manipulated Fr. Pfeiffer into turning the Resistance into a live action version of Axis and Allies (a game similar to Risk) -- a game which Fr. Pfeiffer is actually quite fond of. Now Fr. P literally has a map on his wall complete with push-pins indicating his Mass centers. He fancies himself a general of some kind. Every hotel Mass he says somewhere is like a battle won. Every new place he says Mass is like conquering some new territory. If he stops going to a given place, he has "lost territory" and has to remove the push pin. But he's one of those brave generals who would rather die than surrender.
See how insane this is? He's lost touch with reality and embraced full-fledged megalomania.
To continue the analogy, when Fr. P spends $500 to go to one of his "lost locations" to say Mass for 1 to 3 families who won't attend Fr. Voigt's or Fr. Zendejas's Masses, receiving maybe 1/3 or 1/2 of his investment back, he's like that soldier that drags himself wounded across the battlefield, and throws a grenade at the other side and kills a couple more enemy soldiers. In other words, he sees the financially insane moves like "spend $500 on plane ticket, get $150 in the collection" as a form of HEROISM on the battlefield. Nevermind that those few people aren't truly in need of the Sacraments; many of them have weekly Mass available from another Resistance priest. These people should be told the truth: that there is nothing wrong with the Masses of Fr. Zendejas and others, and then Fr. P could use that $500 where it was *truly* needed (such as one of the ten thousand places where NO Resistance priest is saying Mass), rather than wasting it on a stubborn kamikaze mission.
OR, maybe in some cases he's getting more than $500 from those 2 or 3 families, because they've been told to stay home from Mass when Fr. P isn't around, which conveniently allows them to save up their tithes over the 8 weeks between Masses. So maybe those 3 families provide $750 or $1000 every 8 weeks, so he does manage to make some money to pour into his pet "seminary" hobby. This is actually more likely than the first scenario.
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Matthew's excerpt quote:
"Also, Fr. Voigt was going to add another section on the Ambrose Moran affair, during which MANY RED LINES were crossed from a perspective of Catholic doctrine. Fr. Pfeiffer wants to talk about priests with doctrinal issues? He has a beam in his eye the size of a telephone pole".
"PED" for short.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQUOZhanhxdXuOFuCw60AiZCodWhkpjeVRcFj6V9Pgom54NCJDvoQ)
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Matthew's excerpt quote:
"Also, Fr. Voigt was going to add another section on the Ambrose Moran affair, during which MANY RED LINES were crossed from a perspective of Catholic doctrine. Fr. Pfeiffer wants to talk about priests with doctrinal issues? He has a beam in his eye the size of a telephone pole".
What am I missing such that the un-renounced Ambrose relationship does not place Frs. Pfeiffer & Hewko in schism? Is that idea completely invalid? If so, why?
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Matthew's excerpt quote:
"Also, Fr. Voigt was going to add another section on the Ambrose Moran affair, during which MANY RED LINES were crossed from a perspective of Catholic doctrine. Fr. Pfeiffer wants to talk about priests with doctrinal issues? He has a beam in his eye the size of a telephone pole".
What am I missing such that the un-renounced Ambrose relationship does not place Frs. Pfeiffer & Hewko in schism? Is that idea completely invalid? If so, why?
You're right on it.
Pablo/pfeiffer tried to launch the cause for "Bp. Ambrose Morrano" but the little piggy won't fly.
(http://www.elevatedself.me/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/pig-trying-to-fly.jpg)
Unsuccessful, Pablo/pfeiffer "shucks and jives" different versions of their Morrano story, hoping the faithful doesn't ask too many questions.
To advance his own agenda, Fr, Pfeiffer needs a bishop, but by providence, his Morrano bishop is grounded.
Deo Gratias!
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I have no knowledge of what they plan to "fly" next but given the reaction against Moran I suspect they will go for either an SV bishop with ties to the SSPX or a retired NO bishop who they can pass off as "liking tradition" or something like that. Their standards are really low so they won't be picky about who it is. And benefactors are on standby waiting to have their life savings strip mined by that operation.
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The resistance was meant to be a loose association. If you do not like the style of one priest or one outfit, you find another. Fr. Voigt is free to form his own; he originally bought into the Boston apostolate based on certain criteria and decided it was not for him. Priests have been weighing up the pros and cons of associating with other traditional entities for decades. They come and they go. Leaving is invariably done with a bad taste in the mouth and a list of grievances as long as your arm. The best working structure is self-employment unless one easily falls out with oneself!
No, it's not that simple. It's not as simple as "it wasn't a good fit for me; I'll just move on with my life." Nice of you to place yourself above Fr. Voigt as his judge, though. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic)
No doubt Fr. Voigt feels justified in indicting Boston so heavily but he immersed himself in the project and came unstuck. A bad investment; there are no refunds; join the club. He should have heeded the warning about coming away with less than he put in! We can all say how the SSPX and others have betrayed us and stolen our money from the early days and the Internet is awash with its priests having to flee in the night for one reason or another! And where money and property is involved, they do seem to excel in corruption and larceny.
Attaching oneself to the trad cause was never going to be easy; there were predators in waiting for the unwary. And obviously liars in abundance. Financially, there were widows' funds to collect and ambitious priests pursuing their own wild dreams. I could never understand why as single men living humble lives they wanted so much money! We are really reaching the point when the absence of bishops and priests leeching off us is no bad thing. I petition the Almighty to do away with this parasitic class!
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Here, here!
I second that petition
My we be saved from the enemies of Jesus Christ who are the parasitic overlords of this world.
(https://firstlightforum.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/ziosite_parasite_360x.jpg?w=590)
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Matthew's excerpt quote:
"Also, Fr. Voigt was going to add another section on the Ambrose Moran affair, during which MANY RED LINES were crossed from a perspective of Catholic doctrine. Fr. Pfeiffer wants to talk about priests with doctrinal issues? He has a beam in his eye the size of a telephone pole".
"PED" for short.
Holy cow, Incred--- please never use that acronym again when speaking of resistance priests. That's sure to open up a whole different can of worms. But then, we've always known you to have your trusty can-opener at hand...
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Wessex:
We can all say how the SSPX and others have betrayed us and stolen our money from the early days and the Internet is awash with its priests having to flee in the night for one reason or another! And where money and property is involved, they do seem to excel in corruption and larceny.
Wessex, you write that "(we) can all say how the SSPX and others have betrayed us and stolen our money." Oh really? We came into the SSPX in about 2002, and left in 2012, more or less. I myself was not aware of any "larceny" on a grand scale during that period of time. No, in fact I was not really conscious of any alleged thievery on the part SSPX priests, until the Pfeiffer/Voigt affair arose. But you seem to be implying that the organization and its priests may have been stealing "our money" from the "early days," that it was an endemic pattern of behavior.
Reading between the lines, you seem to indicate that Fr. Pfeiffer's alleged larceny is nothing new or unique, that, as I say above, it has always been the kind of behavior exhibited within the priestly ranks of the SSPX, If I read you correctly. Since you've opened this Pandora's Box, don't you think you should provide at least a few solid examples of other SSPX priests, (or bishops, or superiors), who have committed acts similar to those of which Fr. Pfeiffer is now presently accused? Otherwise, we are led to believe that Fr. Pfeiffer may merely have behaved under the influence of the environment from which he sprang. I doubt this seriously. You need to explain.
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The resistance was meant to be a loose association. If you do not like the style of one priest or one outfit, you find another. Fr. Voigt is free to form his own; he originally bought into the Boston apostolate based on certain criteria and decided it was not for him. Priests have been weighing up the pros and cons of associating with other traditional entities for decades. They come and they go. Leaving is invariably done with a bad taste in the mouth and a list of grievances as long as your arm. The best working structure is self-employment unless one easily falls out with oneself!
No, it's not that simple. It's not as simple as "it wasn't a good fit for me; I'll just move on with my life." Nice of you to place yourself above Fr. Voigt as his judge, though. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic)
No doubt Fr. Voigt feels justified in indicting Boston so heavily but he immersed himself in the project and came unstuck. A bad investment; there are no refunds; join the club. He should have heeded the warning about coming away with less than he put in! We can all say how the SSPX and others have betrayed us and stolen our money from the early days and the Internet is awash with its priests having to flee in the night for one reason or another! And where money and property is involved, they do seem to excel in corruption and larceny.
Attaching oneself to the trad cause was never going to be easy; there were predators in waiting for the unwary. And obviously liars in abundance. Financially, there were widows' funds to collect and ambitious priests pursuing their own wild dreams. I could never understand why as single men living humble lives they wanted so much money! We are really reaching the point when the absence of bishops and priests leeching off us is no bad thing. I petition the Almighty to do away with this parasitic class!
Well, Mr. Wessex, He evidently is doing away with this parasitic class that you yearn to see gone. Therefore, careful what we wish for! As the last of the seriously trained Catholic clergy go off into that good sunset to be replaced by the Clowns' Brigades and Circus Freak Shows Unlimited, aka an Anabaptist Pentecostalist clergy absurdly feigning something presuming Roman Catholicism, what next? What next indeed. As is said: Quo Vadis? Perhaps those who wish to remain Roman Catholics ought to address the obvious, i.e., that the question to be addressed is not minor juridical adjustment here or there but rather how to resurrect something integrally Catholic. Hence what is needed is precisely the "parasitic class" you loath, but "on steroids". More, not less! What would a real Roman Catholic bishop look like nowadays in the Age of the Donald and Madame Le Pen, with the ancient rabies again epidemic among the Germans and renascent Uber-Fascism, et. al.?
One might even attempt the sobriety to note that the petty bourgeoisie is storming the barricades, something that has not been occurring for many a generation past? That the price of oil is murdering capitalism with an efficiency of which the late unlamented Mr. Marx could only dream about in his many ravings? That our various enemies are in much worse shape than we Catholics are? Jєωry is shattered and it is springtime in Christendom again, my friend.
And since any functional Roman clergy is disappearing with all the rapidity the most rabid anti-clerical could desire, what indeed is to be done? Might this lowly writer make the modest proposal that what is urgently required is many many fighting Roman bishops, and anything but no bishops. Catholics would benefit from bishops the more militant the better in place of absurdly milk toast careerists quivering with fear in the face of unprecedented opportunities that dangerously threaten their shamelessly comatose comforts.
Our bishops need but perform their various historic duties and the world would soon be at the feet of the Roman Catholic remnant. But that men were found with testosterone levels sufficient to the task, alas. In any case, it is not our opportunities or the means that are lacking. As is said, the fault lies all too entirely only in ourselves. We are in the Lent to End All Lents and the Transfiguration of the Romans is straight ahead of us as inescapably and inexorably as the dawn.
What is to be done? Simple. Rather than mope about, Catholic men ought to abandon the escapism of endlessly hiding behind meaningless juridical hair-splittings regarding the precise status of the usurpers in the Vatican or the subtle existential meanings of the good Bishop Williamson’s latest vapours apropos the everchanging numbers of angels on the heads of unspecified pins and proceed to do something entirely different:
Namely, to pick up their Crosses (i.e., their swords), boldly march forth and conquer. It has been done before and it is already being done again. The proverbial ship has come in and the Catholic men who do not wish to miss theirs had best scamble aboard before the limited reservations are full up.
To quote the Bard:
“There is a tide in the affairs of men.

Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;

Omitted, all the voyage of their life

Is bound in shallows and in miseries.

On such a full sea are we now afloat,

And we must take the current when it serves,

Or lose our ventures.”
And, dear Catholic ladies, please be sure to give the Catholic gentlemen a good hard kick in our lazy behinds now and then. These days we are often sorely in need of some such prompt assistance from you.
-
Maybe my iced tea hasn't kicked in yet (or maybe I'd need to make use of a different kind of "tea" -- the kind that is only legal in certain states today), but I can't make heads or tails of what Franciscan Solitary is getting at.
Maybe he's cryptic on purpose, as an exercise, to get us all debating and talking for hours about what he means. Maybe that's his real goal.
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Franciscan Solitary, nice quote from the Bard, but please dumb down your message for us.
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Naw, he just wants us to literally get out there and fight.
The fight is now and we Catholics won't have this chance again.
(http://www.aeroartinc.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/3/6348_5-4.jpg)
To kick it all off, can someone convince +W to consecrate an ex military, fighting bishop?
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Maybe my iced tea hasn't kicked in yet (or maybe I'd need to make use of a different kind of "tea" -- the kind that is only legal in certain states today), but I can't make heads or tails of what Franciscan Solitary is getting at.
Maybe he's cryptic on purpose, as an exercise, to get us all debating and talking for hours about what he means. Maybe that's his real goal.
I have an automatic 'filter' when I scroll through threads, and mine learned to automatically skip over FS's posts a while back, when one reaction to his post was, "I'll have what he's having. (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=38353&min=92&num=1)" And another said, "Up the dosage (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=38353&min=104&num=1)."
[No offense, FS. :smirk:]
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Naw, he just wants us to literally get out there and fight.
The fight is now and we Catholics won't have this chance again.
(http://www.aeroartinc.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/3/6348_5-4.jpg)
To kick it all off, can someone convince +W to consecrate an ex military, fighting bishop?
Unfortunately, there are not many Traditional priests living outside of Boston that desire to be consecrated.
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What is to be done? Simple. Rather than mope about, Catholic men ought to abandon the escapism of endlessly hiding behind meaningless juridical hair-splittings regarding the precise status of the usurpers in the Vatican or the subtle existential meanings of the good Bishop Williamson’s latest vapours apropos the everchanging numbers of angels on the heads of unspecified pins and proceed to do something entirely different:
Namely, to pick up their Crosses (i.e., their swords), boldly march forth and conquer. It has been done before and it is already being done again. The proverbial ship has come in and the Catholic men who do not wish to miss theirs had best scamble aboard before the limited reservations are full up.
:applause:
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Now the poison of this man's tongue has set Fr. Pfeiffer against priests and bishops and effectively has driven a wedge in the resistance community.
Pablo = Grima Wormtongue?
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What is to be done? Simple. Rather than mope about, Catholic men ought to abandon the escapism of endlessly hiding behind meaningless juridical hair-splittings regarding the precise status of the usurpers in the Vatican or the subtle existential meanings of the good Bishop Williamson’s latest vapours apropos the everchanging numbers of angels on the heads of unspecified pins and proceed to do something entirely different:
Namely, to pick up their Crosses (i.e., their swords), boldly march forth and conquer. It has been done before and it is already being done again. The proverbial ship has come in and the Catholic men who do not wish to miss theirs had best scamble aboard before the limited reservations are full up.
:applause:
Thank you very kindly, my Lady. Thank you indeed.
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Odd that this has never really been resolved. Business as usual in Boston, KY.
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Odd that this has never really been resolved. Business as usual in Boston, KY.
Hasn't ManuelChavez whipped them into shape yet?
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Matthew noted how Fr Pfeiffer mistook being busy, even hectic for actually doing things. An unwillingness to to devolve what likely were several good jobs to other priests or seminarians of a few years standing, is a big character flaw. Men don't get trained on essential tasks. Moreover, a leader's most important task is strategy. He may feel he can work the phones, or some other task, better than anyone, but if he cannot let go a bit, all momentum is lost.
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Odd that this has never really been resolved. Business as usual in Boston, KY.
Hasn't ManuelChavez whipped them into shape yet?
I once found a horse.
I named it Fred.
I took it some water,
but it was quite dead.
And since I was angry,
I beat it instead.
I buried the horse,
And then went to bed.
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Odd that this has never really been resolved. Business as usual in Boston, KY.
Hasn't ManuelChavez whipped them into shape yet?
I once found a horse.
I named it Fred.
I took it some water,
but it was quite dead.
And since I was angry,
I beat it instead.
I buried the horse,
And then went to bed.
I am pleased to hear that you are no longer spinning your wheels with Pfeifferville. I, too, initially had high hopes for the cause.
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And since any functional Roman clergy is disappearing with all the rapidity the most rabid anti-clerical could desire, what indeed is to be done? Might this lowly writer make the modest proposal that what is urgently required is many many fighting Roman bishops, and anything but no bishops. Catholics would benefit from bishops the more militant the better in place of absurdly milk toast careerists quivering with fear in the face of unprecedented opportunities that dangerously threaten their shamelessly comatose comforts.
Our bishops need but perform their various historic duties and the world would soon be at the feet of the Roman Catholic remnant. But that men were found with testosterone levels sufficient to the task, alas. In any case, it is not our opportunities or the means that are lacking. As is said, the fault lies all too entirely only in ourselves. We are in the Lent to End All Lents and the Transfiguration of the Romans is straight ahead of us as inescapably and inexorably as the dawn.
What is to be done? Simple. Rather than mope about, Catholic men ought to abandon the escapism of endlessly hiding behind meaningless juridical hair-splittings regarding the precise status of the usurpers in the Vatican or the subtle existential meanings of the good Bishop Williamson’s latest vapours apropos the everchanging numbers of angels on the heads of unspecified pins and proceed to do something entirely different:
Namely, to pick up their Crosses (i.e., their swords), boldly march forth and conquer. It has been done before and it is already being done again. The proverbial ship has come in and the Catholic men who do not wish to miss theirs had best scamble aboard before the limited reservations are full up.
To quote the Bard:
“There is a tide in the affairs of men.?
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;?
Omitted, all the voyage of their life?
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.?
On such a full sea are we now afloat,?
And we must take the current when it serves,?
Or lose our ventures.”
And, dear Catholic ladies, please be sure to give the Catholic gentlemen a good hard kick in our lazy behinds now and then. These days we are often sorely in need of some such prompt assistance from you.
Just this.
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Naw, he just wants us to literally get out there and fight.
The fight is now and we Catholics won't have this chance again.
(http://www.aeroartinc.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/3/6348_5-4.jpg)
To kick it all off, can someone convince +W to consecrate an ex military, fighting bishop?
Unfortunately, there are not many Traditional priests living outside of Boston that desire to be consecrated.
"We Catholics" will have our chances many many times again. It's the individual Catholic men of the current generation who are in need of some timely and urgent sense of duty. So to speak, their ship has come into port. Catholic Nationalism has not enjoyed such bright prospects since long ago in the 1920s. In truth the present time has many striking similarities with the 1920s, except that our enemies (broadly speaking, Jєωry and their Judas priests, usurers and politicians) have not been so shattered and weak in recorded human history so far: That our leading enemies are Obama and Netanyahu speaks incredibly well for our prospects. Hence the usual excuses of our Catholic men for their habitual cowardice are running extremely thin. The prevailing defeatism of our men is shameful beyond words and hierarchic episcopal and monarchic Roman discipline is exactly what is required.
The ordination and consecration of some ex-Marines and the like might be very much in order, perhaps at the behest of Presidents Trump and Le Pen. Perhaps some scholarly and erudite bishop such as Bishop Williamson may be induced to do this. Most of the early Christian saints were Roman soldiers and that might set the best example for our male Catholic contemporaries. The Emperor Constantine was also a great Catholic warrior saint!
In any case those with eyes to see and ears to hear will notice that something very like an historic Category Five hurricane is currently arising on every human horizon. Catholic laymen who stupidly persist in spitting against it are likely to be in for quite an unpleasant shock.
This is not the time for hypocritical Catholic defeatism.
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Well said, Fransiscan Solitary
:applause:
I can see that you still believe.
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Authority which ought to come from God to the Pope then to the bishops does not exist any longer.
It is good that Fr. Voigt publicly admits that the Pope no longer has the authority that God has previously supplied to the papacy. One need not obey another who lacks authority, regardless of his lack of faith.
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Authority which ought to come from God to the Pope then to the bishops does not exist any longer.
It is good that Fr. Voigt publicly admits that the Pope no longer has the authority that God has previously supplied to the papacy. One need not obey another who lacks authority, regardless of his lack of faith.
The above is the core religious challenge Catholics now face expressed concisely as if in a nutshell. The Good God has been kind enough to His Catholic children to have given us fair warning when the Holy Roman Emperorship fully lapsed in 1918 while the Imperial Family of the Austrian Hapsburgs was exiled and the Emperor soon suffered a martyr's death in the Portuguese Azores. Then the Jєωs were restored to the Holy Land not long after Europe, the Heart of Christendom, had been burned and blasted to smithereens. By 1950 the saintly Pope Pius XII was teaching very clearly from the Papal Chair that the End was Nigh. The proclamation of the Dogma of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin during the Holy Year in 1950 had everything to do with this.
So we should not claim that we were not warned ahead of time. Our Lord is kind but He is not wasteful with His mercies. Now the Papacy is as dead as the Emperorship became after 1918. An horrendously and horrifically hard truth, but there it is: The Apocalypse at the End of Time is upon us.
Then apostates like Bishop Fellay pretend that nothing much has really happened and a little minor tinkering with canon lawyers in Apostate Rome will take care of things for everyone. Clear evidence that hypocrisy can not change its spots. The Pharisees remain as they have always been and claim that vigilance is only a foolish extravagance for "Pelagians" or whatever bad names Pope Bergoglio is slandering the Catholics with this week.
Catholic history is an apocalyptic progress that goes one-way straight into the Second Coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ. This is a dogma of the Faith. The divinity of Christ is an empty pretence without this crucial dogma that alone completes our Roman Catholic Christology and the denial of any real historic Apocalypse by the Photian heretics in the Greek and Slavic East is proof of this. Hence Russia and her many errors.
To recognise current events requires some moral purity and baptismal innocence. That is why so few of our contemporaries are able to see what is so clearly right in front of them. Those whom the Gods would destroy they first drive mad! Evidently Our Lord therefore intends to destroy very many indeed, or to allow this to be done. We few, the long foretold Remnant of the Last Days, had best protect our families "indoors" and light our candles against the Days of Darkness that are upon us and everyone else. We must red-light the apostate liturgies and keep our women and children safe within the walls of our Catholics homes -- until the sun rises again and daylight returns to our horrendously devastated and tortured planet.
Meanwhile our Catholic men have no such excuses. We are not called to quiver at home trembling timidly behind the skirts of our womenfolk. We are called to go aggressively into the Outer Darkness and slay the many monsters of nightmare that presently lurk and slither there. In this 21st Century the Catholic men are become Dragonslayers, holy werewolves and somewhat literally the Wrath of God in the flesh.
For us nothing could be better.
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Meanwhile our Catholic men have no such excuses. We are not called to quiver at home trembling timidly behind the skirts of our womenfolk. We are called to go aggressively into the Outer Darkness and slay the many monsters of nightmare that presently lurk and slither there. In this 21st Century the Catholic men are become Dragonslayers, holy werewolves and somewhat literally the Wrath of God in the flesh.
What florid prose!
But as I've said before to agent provocateurs and activists, I want you to be specific, as well as honest/candid/open with what you are advocating.
If you mean terrorism, say terrorism. If you mean armed rebellion against the current government, then please own up to it. Be a man and admit it! Don't hide behind the skirts of your womenfolk -- or your flowery prose. :wink:
Seriously, I'm getting tired of all the "calls to action" aimed at men who are already doing all they can. What is your criticism? That we don't have the desired results yet? I would retort that it's not for us to solve the Crisis in the Church, which is bigger than all of us and obviously a supernatural problem. Only God can untangle this mess. In the meantime, we have to do ALL WE CAN to hold the forts against the encroaching modernism, liberalism, feminism, Judaism, political correctness, atheism, and the other modern errors.
Are Traditional Catholics called on to keep the Faith? YES.
Are Traditional Catholics called on to save their souls? YES.
Are Traditional Catholics called on to solve this Crisis in the Church. NO.
When you're outnumbered 10,000 or even 100,000 to one, anything more than a defensive posture is madness. Unless you're talking about asymmetrical warfare (a.k.a. "terrorism")
All we can do, even priests and bishops, is promote the reign of Christ the King to our utmost. Sanctify souls one at a time, helping each other to keep the Faith (both priests and laity) and live the Faith in our daily lives. Promote the Fatima message, which includes prayer, sacrifice, and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Get people to consecrate themselves to her Immaculate Heart (True Devotion to Mary).
There is no way to peace besides that Peace Plan outlined by heaven: the consecration of Russia to the I.H.M.
Any other path I consider a dead end, a temptation, and the path of a false prophet trying to lead us all astray.
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There is no way to peace besides that Peace Plan outlined by heaven: the consecration of Russia to the I.H.M.
Any other path I consider a dead end, a temptation, and the path of a false prophet trying to lead us all astray.
THIS
The window of opportunity for Catholic Action has closed. Only she can help us now.
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Meanwhile our Catholic men have no such excuses. We are not called to quiver at home trembling timidly behind the skirts of our womenfolk. We are called to go aggressively into the Outer Darkness and slay the many monsters of nightmare that presently lurk and slither there. In this 21st Century the Catholic men are become Dragonslayers, holy werewolves and somewhat literally the Wrath of God in the flesh.
What florid prose!
But as I've said before to agent provocateurs and activists, I want you to be specific, as well as honest/candid/open with what you are advocating.
If you mean terrorism, say terrorism. If you mean armed rebellion against the current government, then please own up to it. Be a man and admit it! Don't hide behind the skirts of your womenfolk -- or your flowery prose. :wink:
Seriously, I'm getting tired of all the "calls to action" aimed at men who are already doing all they can. What is your criticism? That we don't have the desired results yet? I would retort that it's not for us to solve the Crisis in the Church, which is bigger than all of us and obviously a supernatural problem. Only God can untangle this mess. In the meantime, we have to do ALL WE CAN to hold the forts against the encroaching modernism, liberalism, feminism, Judaism, political correctness, atheism, and the other modern errors.
Are Traditional Catholics called on to keep the Faith? YES.
Are Traditional Catholics called on to save their souls? YES.
Are Traditional Catholics called on to solve this Crisis in the Church. NO.
When you're outnumbered 10,000 or even 100,000 to one, anything more than a defensive posture is madness. Unless you're talking about asymmetrical warfare (a.k.a. "terrorism")
All we can do, even priests and bishops, is promote the reign of Christ the King to our utmost. Sanctify souls one at a time, helping each other to keep the Faith (both priests and laity) and live the Faith in our daily lives. Promote the Fatima message, which includes prayer, sacrifice, and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Get people to consecrate themselves to her Immaculate Heart (True Devotion to Mary).
There is no way to peace besides that Peace Plan outlined by heaven: the consecration of Russia to the I.H.M.
Any other path I consider a dead end, a temptation, and the path of a false prophet trying to lead us all astray.
The above large question requires a large answer. A blog may not be the best place for this, but so be it.
The up-to-date contemporary style emphasises harmony, so “florid prose” may be more effective these days than the usual emaciated minimalism of journalists and bloggers. Perhaps some more Baroque and Victorian style with some flesh and muscle to it is what the 21st Century will hear most clearly.
Catholics must keep the Faith; God will save our souls; the Apocalyptic Crisis of the Church will be overcome by God making use of Catholic men and women from within the Church Militant. Our Lord helps us and often covers our backs, but He does not do our duties or live our lives for us. That may be good enough for Pagans and Asiatics, but it is not the Roman Way. Our men are free men and Roman citizens, our men are fighters. If our men are outnumbered 100,000 or 1,000,000 to one it matters little or nothing. Because when God is for us, who can be against us? We have beaten worse odds than those before and we shall do so again. Please understand that our enemies don’t doubt this, nor should we.
The duty of Catholic laymen is to provide for their own, protect their own and do their military duty. Normally “prayer, sacrifice and devotion” while convincing others to consecrate themselves to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is, after all, women’s work. We men are made of sterner stuff. (The Catholic ladies are the champions of the Christian home and civilisation; Roman Catholic women are Western civilisation.)
Catholicism doesn’t often “save souls one at a time”. We are highly civilised people and operate with Roman discipline, not with the casual methods of anti-social libertarian anarchism. That would be the false way of the Masonic Lodges. What we lack is militant men, which is to say MILITANT LEADERSHIP.
What we need most are MILITANT BISHOPS. This is not a proposal for Keystone Cops playing with weapons. Here is the plan: Militant Catholic laymen — Militant Catholic bishops — Militant Catholic education — Militant Catholic liturgy — Salvation. In brief, a Roman Church Militant.
This vision is not Restoration. It is at the furthest remove from any conceivable Restoration. This is precisely the hearing and carrying through of the Peace Plan of Heaven, namely the Book of Revelation. Fatima is the declaration of Heaven that the Apocalypse had begun. The Russian Bolshevik Revolution was the Satanic spark that lit the Apocalypse and finally destroyed the entire world. We are now the small Remnant barely surviving amid the ghastly smoking ruins left behind. Truly in this our time the living have envied the dead.
God saves us when we read and hear what the Book of Revelation and our Catholic Popes, Emperors and poets have been repeatedly telling us for these past two thousand years. Catholic history is apocalyptic; Catholic religion is apocalyptic. The Divinity of Christ is confirmed by the Second Coming of Our Lord with blinding bolts of lightning, deafening claps of thunder and blazing swirling clouds of bright golden glory streaming in His wake. That is not any Restoration of Christendom by the hands of weak and cowardly mortal men.
When Catholic laymen do their mandatory military duty they are, in somewhat poetic language, Dragon slayers, werewolves and, so to speak, the Wrath of God. So it has always been and shall forever be. Nothing is to be gained for us by speaking timidly or stuttering the Catholic truth. We are not faced with the need to convince our contemporaries. What our religion and tradition command us to do is to show from within us the Death of Christ, go forth and conquer our contemporaries. Not to convince the Marxist multitudes, but to conquer them. That is the clear message of God to us in the Book of Revelation and Fatima.
This is the time for Catholic men to carry through the Message of Fatima, not to do the normally women’s work of prayers wtih feminine virtues and devotions. Because Catholic men are not women!!! (Nor Catholic women men, needless to say.)
The activity this suggests is not terrorism, but Catholic education. REAL historic Catholic education brought up to the present horrendously Apocalyptic time. Our women must learn to undertake their more gentle civilising duties and our men must learn to do their own more strenuous and primarily military ones.
We do not hear God’s will from within the centers of ourselves. We learn God’s will from outside ourselves, from God Alone. If we can stop listening for God from inside ourselves and meet Him, so to speak, in the clouds above where He is, then we will understand that He wants us to actively fight against evil wherever we find it and not passively refuse to resist evil while complacently presuming God’s favors like the hypocrites and Pharisees do. What God wants from us is works, works and more works, to paraphrase the great Saint Theresa of Avila.
May the Catholic Remnant be the Church Militant that God intends and bravely follow Our Lord into the long promised Millennial Kingdom of God on earth that already awaits us.
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The duty of Catholic laymen is to provide for their own, protect their own and do their military duty. Normally “prayer, sacrifice and devotion” while convincing others to consecrate themselves to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is, after all, women’s work. We men are made of sterner stuff.
How very sad and terrifying that you think so.
We do not hear God’s will from within the centers of ourselves. We learn God’s will from outside ourselves, from God Alone. If we can stop listening for God from inside ourselves and meet Him, so to speak, in the clouds above where He is, then we will understand that He wants us to actively fight against evil wherever we find it and not passively refuse to resist evil while complacently presuming God’s favors like the hypocrites and Pharisees do. What God wants from us is works, works and more works, to paraphrase the great Saint Theresa of Avila.
Sounds completely opposite from what is told to us by our Faith and the Saints, that God is heard in the peace and tranquility of our souls.
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The duty of Catholic laymen is to provide for their own, protect their own and do their military duty. Normally “prayer, sacrifice and devotion” while convincing others to consecrate themselves to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is, after all, women’s work. We men are made of sterner stuff.
How very sad and terrifying that you think so.
We do not hear God’s will from within the centers of ourselves. We learn God’s will from outside ourselves, from God Alone. If we can stop listening for God from inside ourselves and meet Him, so to speak, in the clouds above where He is, then we will understand that He wants us to actively fight against evil wherever we find it and not passively refuse to resist evil while complacently presuming God’s favors like the hypocrites and Pharisees do. What God wants from us is works, works and more works, to paraphrase the great Saint Theresa of Avila.
Sounds completely opposite from what is told to us by our Faith and the Saints, that God is heard in the peace and tranquility of our souls.
Dear Lady Wallflower:
Then why do we have women and clergy at all? Since the laymen can take care of everything, aren't the Catholic women and clergy rendered terribly redundant? By and large the Catholic laymen are out working and struggling hard against what and who opposes them. Roman Catholic manhood isn't easy and isn't expected to be. Yes, that would be something terrifying -- to sensible women. Women are very wise not to want to be men.
To your second point above, no, the doctrine of the Holy Trinity teaches us that creatures and God are truly and really distinct. We Catholics staunchly reject the pantheist notion that God and Creation are merged into one and that individuality doesn't truly and really exist. That's another of the many many glories of the Blessed Trinity. Although the Holy Ghost is within us, He is not of us. Within and above us, but not literally of us in any absolute or too literal sense. That would be Pantheism.
Sts. Paul and Francis of Assisi are the classic examples of Catholic men who do not hear God "in the peace and tranquillity of our souls", at least not usually or so often. Of course sometimes such men do hear the Good God in that more feminine way, but they also enjoy the more stormy joys of Roman Catholic manhood as well. Catholic manhood is usually more joyful and adventurous than peaceful and tranquil. Hence the great need among us for Catholic women in particular. The peace and tranquility is by and large located in your own more pleasant and civilised department. But for we men hearing God amid the lightning and thunder can also be tremendously empowering and rewarding at times.
While Catholic men and women share the same identical religion, humanity and adulthood, it’s also true that, as my lady French teacher used to say: “Vive la différance!”
God bless.
-
Dear Lady Wallflower:
Then why do we have women and clergy at all? Since the laymen can take care of everything, aren't the Catholic women and clergy rendered terribly redundant? By and large the Catholic laymen are out working and struggling hard against what and who opposes them. Roman Catholic manhood isn't easy and isn't expected to be. Yes, that would be something terrifying -- to sensible women. Women are very wise not to want to be men.
To your second point above, no, the doctrine of the Holy Trinity teaches us that creatures and God are truly and really distinct. We Catholics staunchly reject the pantheist notion that God and Creation are merged into one and that individuality doesn't truly and really exist. That's another of the many many glories of the Blessed Trinity. Although the Holy Ghost is within us, He is not of us. Within and above us, but not literally of us in any absolute or too literal sense. That would be Pantheism.
Sts. Paul and Francis of Assisi are the classic examples of Catholic men who do not hear God "in the peace and tranquillity of our souls", at least not usually or so often. Of course sometimes such men do hear the Good God in that more feminine way, but they also enjoy the more stormy joys of Roman Catholic manhood as well. Catholic manhood is usually more joyful and adventurous than peaceful and tranquil. Hence the great need among us for Catholic women in particular. The peace and tranquility is by and large located in your own more pleasant and civilised department. But for we men hearing God amid the lightning and thunder can also be tremendously empowering and rewarding at times.
While Catholic men and women share the same identical religion, humanity and adulthood, it’s also true that, as my lady French teacher used to say: “Vive la différance!”
God bless.
You are either a priest or a soldier. Which one? Because I KNOW you aren't yet another armchair quarterback.
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The duty of Catholic laymen is to provide for their own, protect their own and do their military duty. Normally “prayer, sacrifice and devotion” while convincing others to consecrate themselves to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is, after all, women’s work. We men are made of sterner stuff.
How very sad and terrifying that you think so.
We do not hear God’s will from within the centers of ourselves. We learn God’s will from outside ourselves, from God Alone. If we can stop listening for God from inside ourselves and meet Him, so to speak, in the clouds above where He is, then we will understand that He wants us to actively fight against evil wherever we find it and not passively refuse to resist evil while complacently presuming God’s favors like the hypocrites and Pharisees do. What God wants from us is works, works and more works, to paraphrase the great Saint Theresa of Avila.
Sounds completely opposite from what is told to us by our Faith and the Saints, that God is heard in the peace and tranquility of our souls.
Dear Lady Wallflower:
Then why do we have women and clergy at all? Since the laymen can take care of everything, aren't the Catholic women and clergy rendered terribly redundant? By and large the Catholic laymen are out working and struggling hard against what and who opposes them. Roman Catholic manhood isn't easy and isn't expected to be. Yes, that would be something terrifying -- to sensible women. Women are very wise not to want to be men.
To your second point above, no, the doctrine of the Holy Trinity teaches us that creatures and God are truly and really distinct. We Catholics staunchly reject the pantheist notion that God and Creation are merged into one and that individuality doesn't truly and really exist. That's another of the many many glories of the Blessed Trinity. Although the Holy Ghost is within us, He is not of us. Within and above us, but not literally of us in any absolute or too literal sense. That would be Pantheism.
Sts. Paul and Francis of Assisi are the classic examples of Catholic men who do not hear God "in the peace and tranquillity of our souls", at least not usually or so often. Of course sometimes such men do hear the Good God in that more feminine way, but they also enjoy the more stormy joys of Roman Catholic manhood as well. Catholic manhood is usually more joyful and adventurous than peaceful and tranquil. Hence the great need among us for Catholic women in particular. The peace and tranquility is by and large located in your own more pleasant and civilised department. But for we men hearing God amid the lightning and thunder can also be tremendously empowering and rewarding at times.
While Catholic men and women share the same identical religion, humanity and adulthood, it’s also true that, as my lady French teacher used to say: “Vive la différance!”
God bless.
I am sorry, I don't know that I fully understand the response. If you mean that women have a natural tendency to piety and that men and women pray and sacrifice differently, then yes I agree and I misunderstood your first post.
If you literally mean that prayer and sacrifice is for women (and clergy), then I stand by my first reaction. No one is redundant if each gives glory to God, whether directly through the salvation of their own souls or indirectly by the salvation of those in their care.
We are supposed to be striving for sanctity no matter our sex and no matter our active or contemplative callings, whether in the foreground or the background. Though the expression of virtue may be different depending on the difference in sex and states in life, I don't know how anyone is capable of reaching that common goal of perfection without constant prayer and sacrifice.
As natural a tendency as piety is in women they still have hurdles to jump in practicing the supernatural virtue. They tend to be sentimental and overly human in their devotions. I'd wager that the supernatural virtue of piety in a man would be of 10 times more value than 10 women with natural piety. Now, the supernatural virtue in a woman is powerful too but even then, because so much of it comes so naturally, it doesn't make the impression that it does in men. I have only ever heard men be exhorted from the pulpit to be examples of prayer and sacrifice for their children since no such example is as powerful, even that of their mother. If it's just a "mom thing", then our sons, our future leaders tend lose the connection to the Holy Ghost and the practice of our Faith. From there it's just a short jump to losing the Faith itself and there goes society. The exact impression we are trying to avoid like the plague is that prayer and sacrifice are for women (and clergy).
Again, if you simply mean that men are generally more active, gallant, adventurous, militant in their lives of prayer and sacrifice, then I am simply misunderstanding and I apologize. That that is true is immediately apparent to anyone raising boys and looking to inspire them in their Faith.
As to the other point, I have no Pantheist leanings. I realize God is distinct from us. But His voice, the whisper of the Holy Ghost, is heard most in silence. If He decides to come to us in thunder and lightning (a la St Paul) then that is His choice and He will make Himself heard above the noise. He will BE the noise. But from what I have always understood, we would be presumptuous to voluntarily raise a ruckus and surround ourselves with drama and constant action, then expect Him to compete with it in order to be heard. No matter what action this world brings to us, we must still maintain a level of peace within our souls.
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The duty of Catholic laymen is to provide for their own, protect their own and do their military duty. Normally “prayer, sacrifice and devotion” while convincing others to consecrate themselves to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is, after all, women’s work. We men are made of sterner stuff.
How very sad and terrifying that you think so.
We do not hear God’s will from within the centers of ourselves. We learn God’s will from outside ourselves, from God Alone. If we can stop listening for God from inside ourselves and meet Him, so to speak, in the clouds above where He is, then we will understand that He wants us to actively fight against evil wherever we find it and not passively refuse to resist evil while complacently presuming God’s favors like the hypocrites and Pharisees do. What God wants from us is works, works and more works, to paraphrase the great Saint Theresa of Avila.
Sounds completely opposite from what is told to us by our Faith and the Saints, that God is heard in the peace and tranquility of our souls.
Dear Lady Wallflower:
Then why do we have women and clergy at all? Since the laymen can take care of everything, aren't the Catholic women and clergy rendered terribly redundant? By and large the Catholic laymen are out working and struggling hard against what and who opposes them. Roman Catholic manhood isn't easy and isn't expected to be. Yes, that would be something terrifying -- to sensible women. Women are very wise not to want to be men.
To your second point above, no, the doctrine of the Holy Trinity teaches us that creatures and God are truly and really distinct. We Catholics staunchly reject the pantheist notion that God and Creation are merged into one and that individuality doesn't truly and really exist. That's another of the many many glories of the Blessed Trinity. Although the Holy Ghost is within us, He is not of us. Within and above us, but not literally of us in any absolute or too literal sense. That would be Pantheism.
Sts. Paul and Francis of Assisi are the classic examples of Catholic men who do not hear God "in the peace and tranquillity of our souls", at least not usually or so often. Of course sometimes such men do hear the Good God in that more feminine way, but they also enjoy the more stormy joys of Roman Catholic manhood as well. Catholic manhood is usually more joyful and adventurous than peaceful and tranquil. Hence the great need among us for Catholic women in particular. The peace and tranquility is by and large located in your own more pleasant and civilised department. But for we men hearing God amid the lightning and thunder can also be tremendously empowering and rewarding at times.
While Catholic men and women share the same identical religion, humanity and adulthood, it’s also true that, as my lady French teacher used to say: “Vive la différance!”
God bless.
I am sorry, I don't know that I fully understand the response. If you mean that women have a natural tendency to piety and that men and women pray and sacrifice differently, then yes I agree and I misunderstood your first post.
If you literally mean that prayer and sacrifice is for women (and clergy), then I stand by my first reaction. No one is redundant if each gives glory to God, whether directly through the salvation of their own souls or indirectly by the salvation of those in their care.
We are supposed to be striving for sanctity no matter our sex and no matter our active or contemplative callings, whether in the foreground or the background. Though the expression of virtue may be different depending on the difference in sex and states in life, I don't know how anyone is capable of reaching that common goal of perfection without constant prayer and sacrifice.
As natural a tendency as piety is in women they still have hurdles to jump in practicing the supernatural virtue. They tend to be sentimental and overly human in their devotions. I'd wager that the supernatural virtue of piety in a man would be of 10 times more value than 10 women with natural piety. Now, the supernatural virtue in a woman is powerful too but even then, because so much of it comes so naturally, it doesn't make the impression that it does in men. I have only ever heard men be exhorted from the pulpit to be examples of prayer and sacrifice for their children since no such example is as powerful, even that of their mother. If it's just a "mom thing", then our sons, our future leaders tend lose the connection to the Holy Ghost and the practice of our Faith. From there it's just a short jump to losing the Faith itself and there goes society. The exact impression we are trying to avoid like the plague is that prayer and sacrifice are for women (and clergy).
Again, if you simply mean that men are generally more active, gallant, adventurous, militant in their lives of prayer and sacrifice, then I am simply misunderstanding and I apologize. That that is true is immediately apparent to anyone raising boys and looking to inspire them in their Faith.
As to the other point, I have no Pantheist leanings. I realize God is distinct from us. But His voice, the whisper of the Holy Ghost, is heard most in silence. If He decides to come to us in thunder and lightning (a la St Paul) then that is His choice and He will make Himself heard above the noise. He will BE the noise. But from what I have always understood, we would be presumptuous to voluntarily raise a ruckus and surround ourselves with drama and constant action, then expect Him to compete with it in order to be heard. No matter what action this world brings to us, we must still maintain a level of peace within our souls.
Dear Lady,
Thank you for your polite consideration. Of course women have a natural tendency to piety and men must make much greater efforts in order to fulfil their duties of prayer and sacrifice. Most assuredly none can reach our common goal of perfection without constant prayer and sacrifice. But for men this is often more complicated and gradates off into more hard work in studies and the more public sacrifices of work and combat. Your estimate of 10:1 for the relative values of piety between the sexes makes perfect sense. That is about the standard ratio that has been reached by the general consensus on that topic. (Although the much greater perseverence of feminine piety and devotion goes far to balance the scales.) What this writer was trying to refer to was essentially the tendency of hypocritical men to use what are often called “mincing devotions” and “oily unction” as plagiaries of genuine devotions and real piety among Catholic men. There are always all too many Tartuffes among us and that obnoxious male character is never far to seek, most notably at present nearby in Boston, Kentucky.
Prayer and sacrifice are different for laymen, laywomen, women religious and clergymen. Of course prayer and sacrifice are crucial for every Catholic, but we are extremely unequal in our talents and duties. Prayer is most important for the clergy while women are called much the most to self-sacrifice and men are called to greatly emphasise the masculine virtue of magnanimity. Laymen would usually be more bold and militant in the performance of their religious duties but also focus much more on their military duty and their obligation to earn a living while laywomen should be morally much freer to pursue and enjoy the many benefits of Christian civilisation, including the fulfillment of their duties of religion in more beautiful and civilised ways than would be proper for the men.
In general Catholic fathers should be examples of dutifulness and heroism to their sons and the boys’ connection to the Holy Ghost and practice of the Faith would be best maintained through the men’s hard struggle to provide for their families and the willingness to shed their own blood in the fulfillment of military duty. Catholic laymen have always excelled in their military prayers, such as in the chanting of the Psalms when going off to battle. That is the way laymen might best connect with the Holy Ghost in their prayers and maintain the Faith. Military song and epic should always be integral to the prayer life of Cathollc boys and laymen; the men should pray and perform devotions, but not in the manner that the women should do them. For example, the rosaries of men and boys should have dignified black beads, not lovely pastel ones.
The standard religious practice of our contemporary Marxist world is to listen to the God within one’s own Self (in other words, to Oneself) and never to the Just God of the Roman Catholics. Whereas the Catholic approach has always been to have the Roman discipline to take a part in the Christian Drama and discover what we can do to increase the external Glory of God. Catholic men are meant to be magnanimous and when no ruckus is raised around them, then Catholic men should worry what is wrong with them. How does a lightning rod not attract lightning or the war songs of Catholic warriors not echo loudly?
Catholic laymen are born to be heroes. Heroes don’t surround themselves with drama and constant action; such drama and action is simply the air they breathe, the inevitable effect of their existence; Christ is invariably soon heard and seen loud and clear. How would He not be?
As for the absolutely essential level of peace within our souls that you mention, for we men that is usually first and foremost the Mother of God in our lives. And then that level is in accord with how well the Catholic women in our lives faithfully reflect her. She and they are our main personal connection with the Holy Ghost.
It is you, dear lady, who have brought the Holy Spirit of Christ into our humble discussion. We men contribute the glorious sound and fury, but it is for you Catholic women to maintain that level of peace you gently mention, whether inside or outside our souls.
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Normally “prayer, sacrifice and devotion” while convincing others to consecrate themselves to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is, after all, women’s work. We men are made of sterner stuff.
I suppose this sort of idea is the reason Russia hasn't been consecrated yet.
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There is no way to peace besides that Peace Plan outlined by heaven: the consecration of Russia to the I.H.M.
Any other path I consider a dead end, a temptation, and the path of a false prophet trying to lead us all astray.
This is where sedevacantists take their leave. They believe there is no pope, so the Collegial Consecration they say, is "impossible." It's a kind of despair, actually.
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Dear Lady,
Thank you for your polite consideration. Of course women have a natural tendency to piety and men must make much greater efforts in order to fulfil their duties of prayer and sacrifice. Most assuredly none can reach our common goal of perfection without constant prayer and sacrifice. But for men this is often more complicated and gradates off into more hard work in studies and the more public sacrifices of work and combat. Your estimate of 10:1 for the relative values of piety between the sexes makes perfect sense. That is about the standard ratio that has been reached by the general consensus on that topic. (Although the much greater perseverence of feminine piety and devotion goes far to balance the scales.) What this writer was trying to refer to was essentially the tendency of hypocritical men to use what are often called “mincing devotions” and “oily unction” as plagiaries of genuine devotions and real piety among Catholic men. There are always all too many Tartuffes among us and that obnoxious male character is never far to seek, most notably at present nearby in Boston, Kentucky.
Prayer and sacrifice are different for laymen, laywomen, women religious and clergymen. Of course prayer and sacrifice are crucial for every Catholic, but we are extremely unequal in our talents and duties. Prayer is most important for the clergy while women are called much the most to self-sacrifice and men are called to greatly emphasise the masculine virtue of magnanimity. Laymen would usually be more bold and militant in the performance of their religious duties but also focus much more on their military duty and their obligation to earn a living while laywomen should be morally much freer to pursue and enjoy the many benefits of Christian civilisation, including the fulfillment of their duties of religion in more beautiful and civilised ways than would be proper for the men.
In general Catholic fathers should be examples of dutifulness and heroism to their sons and the boys’ connection to the Holy Ghost and practice of the Faith would be best maintained through the men’s hard struggle to provide for their families and the willingness to shed their own blood in the fulfillment of military duty. Catholic laymen have always excelled in their military prayers, such as in the chanting of the Psalms when going off to battle. That is the way laymen might best connect with the Holy Ghost in their prayers and maintain the Faith. Military song and epic should always be integral to the prayer life of Cathollc boys and laymen; the men should pray and perform devotions, but not in the manner that the women should do them. For example, the rosaries of men and boys should have dignified black beads, not lovely pastel ones.
The standard religious practice of our contemporary Marxist world is to listen to the God within one’s own Self (in other words, to Oneself) and never to the Just God of the Roman Catholics. Whereas the Catholic approach has always been to have the Roman discipline to take a part in the Christian Drama and discover what we can do to increase the external Glory of God. Catholic men are meant to be magnanimous and when no ruckus is raised around them, then Catholic men should worry what is wrong with them. How does a lightning rod not attract lightning or the war songs of Catholic warriors not echo loudly?
Catholic laymen are born to be heroes. Heroes don’t surround themselves with drama and constant action; such drama and action is simply the air they breathe, the inevitable effect of their existence; Christ is invariably soon heard and seen loud and clear. How would He not be?
As for the absolutely essential level of peace within our souls that you mention, for we men that is usually first and foremost the Mother of God in our lives. And then that level is in accord with how well the Catholic women in our lives faithfully reflect her. She and they are our main personal connection with the Holy Ghost.
It is you, dear lady, who have brought the Holy Spirit of Christ into our humble discussion. We men contribute the glorious sound and fury, but it is for you Catholic women to maintain that level of peace you gently mention, whether inside or outside our souls.
Thank you for clarifying. Though I seriously question the wisdom or objective truth in the assertion that all Catholic men have a literal military duty (especially today as opposed to a thousand years ago), I do agree that we need our men to be magnanimous and heroic in the performance of their daily duties, which includes dealing with the outside world.
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Franciscan, we can not raise soldiers from a culture which has lost the spirit of militancy for God.
Saint Marco D'Aviano pray for us
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Franciscan, we can not raise soldiers from a culture which has lost the spirit of militancy for God.
Saint Marco D'Aviano pray for us
Only the Muslims do that these days. Religion for Westerners is only an adjunct to their personal lives, if that, which is more disposed to elevating celebrities, sportsmen, and those that promise to maintain their incomes and asset values. Do their comfort zones need religion, let alone a militancy that attacks the status quo? Come a hundred years, residual religion may well disappear apart from it appearing somewhere in psychological books and included in themes holiday breaks.
We can of course rely heavily (and exclusively) on prophesies but that is passive religion. The return of militancy can only occur on the backs of a broad ιnѕυrrєcтισn or crisis which would so disrupt society, causing minds to revisit traditional values for solutions.
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Franciscan, we can not raise soldiers from a culture which has lost the spirit of militancy for God.
Saint Marco D'Aviano pray for us
Only the Muslims do that these days. Religion for Westerners is only an adjunct to their personal lives, if that, which is more disposed to elevating celebrities, sportsmen, and those that promise to maintain their incomes and asset values. Do their comfort zones need religion, let alone a militancy that attacks the status quo? Come a hundred years, residual religion may well disappear apart from it appearing somewhere in psychological books and included in themes holiday breaks.
We can of course rely heavily (and exclusively) on prophesies but that is passive religion. The return of militancy can only occur on the backs of a broad ιnѕυrrєcтισn or crisis which would so disrupt society, causing minds to revisit traditional values for solutions.
“And Jesus said to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there was a great calm.” (Matthew 8:26)
It is very good that there is so much faith among us at CathInfo. The defence of “smells and bells” is utterly legitimate and the aesthetic love of our holy religion is entirely laudable. Still, even more and greater faith can be hoped for, at least from the men.
Why this somewhat timid view of our own people and history among Catholic men? What do we imagine we have to lose and why the blindness to what we have to gain from a more ambitious eagerness to increase Our Lord’s external glory here on earth?
There is no generic egailtarian one-size-fits-all “Westerner” who somehow bridges the gap between Catholic and Marxist. Either we’re Catholics or we’re Reds and never the twain shall meet. Nowadays most Western men are Reds and in consequence they are rapidly dying out as one would expect. Such are the wagtes of their Great Apostasy. But this has little to do with the Roman Catholics. We are on the other side of the Great Divide in comtemporary Western society. And more specifically on the winning side!
Actually the Musliim terrorists are pretty pathetic mercenaries organized and paid by N.A.T.O. through Saudi Arabia and the Arab Gulf states with Israel playing the role of Puppet Master behind stage. They simply embody the Great Apostasy among the Muslims and are no more loyal to Islam than the N.A.T.O. military forces are to Christianity. Neo-Liberal Reds and apostates all.
Resurrection comes from above, not from below. It is noble and aristocratic, not plebian or democratic. Death is democratic, but resurrection is kingly and monarchic through and through and although the Kingship of Christ can be expressed through an aristocratic republic or Catholic dictatorship, the normative form of our Western civilisation is and always must be hereditary Roman Catholic monarchy. Of course!
The crisis is already here. We needn’t wait for it to arrive in future. It will continue to intensify, but the crisis is in full swing already. Even the coalescing of what is often referred to as a “revolutionary situation” is being generally recognised at present by those capable of seeing such an historical opportunity. In 2017 it will be Catholics who will be somewhat imitaing the Vladimir Lenin of a century ago and, so to speak, arriving in Petersburg at the Finland Station.
Therefore it behooves us to be preparing some speeches and readying ourselves to address the mobs and overthorw various regimes as Revolution (or Counter-Revolution) unfolds. As it undoubtedly will directly in the immediately proximate years. Very many Western minds are revisiting the Traditional values as we type and perhaps too much patience is not always the most timely virtue. Perhaps at present decisiveness is the more appropriate attitude, with some healthy aristocratic fury mixed in as well.
All in all, a time for Roman Catholic wrath, not Roman Catholic pusillanimity.
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Franciscan Solitary,
First of all, I want to point out that you STILL haven't clearly denied that you're calling for ѕυιcιdє vests, snipers, and IEDs emblazoned with Catholic logos instead of Muslim ones. In other words, you haven't denied that you are advocating terrorism and armed revolt against the government.
Until you do so, you're going to be suspect of being an agent provocateur on this forum.
Quotes like "with some healthy aristocratic fury mixed in as well." and "All in all, a time for Roman Catholic wrath, not Roman Catholic pusillanimity." isn't helping your case any.
You're way off base calling for mandatory military service for all men. Some men just aren't called to be soldiers. That doesn't make them worthless, lesser, or somehow "non-men".
I seriously doubt that you are a soldier yourself. I would go further and say I doubt you have what it takes to be a soldier, even if you WEREN'T clinging to "I'm a pray-er. I'm exempt."
The "male laity" is not synonymous with "fighters". There are male roles in civilized society other than soldier.
Did Thomas A. Nelson waste his life because he became neither a soldier or a priest? He was stout hearted enough, he opposed the bad guys and built up a huge Catholic publishing enterprise, providing millions of good traditional Catholic books to laity and clergy alike. And he took on the challenge of doing all that while burdened with Catholic morality (taking care of his employees, paying a living wage, not laying people off when times got tough, giving Holy Days off work, etc.)
Does his vocation meet with your approval, your highness?
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I believe, rather, that if it takes recruiting every violin player, storekeeper, engineer, etc. to be soldiers, then I guess it's going to take God's active help to end this Crisis.
Some men are just not called to be soldiers.
And here is the real problem: we don't have a king or legitimate army that we can be drafted into. So even if we were all convinced by your speech, Franciscan Solitary, and we all decided "Heck yeah, let's fight!" and went for our pitchforks and guns, then what?
Are we going to volunteer for the US Military? Fat chance. Oh yeah, let's become cannon fodder for the NWO. That wouldn't get us anywhere!
So you're talking about popular armed revolt.
That's called an ιnѕυrrєcтισn or a riot, not a war. Wars are held between 2 or more countries with legitimate leadership (kings, presidents) on each side.
If we just start a civil ιnѕυrrєcтισn/riot, then we'd get murdered by the US Military (BATF, FEMA, etc.) because they are just waiting for those riots to break out. They are completely prepared (1 billion rounds of armor-piercing ammo, etc.)
Sorry, I don't care what it means for the world, I can't allow people to call for such armed rebellion here on CathInfo. Call me yellow, call me lily-livered, call me a sellout, call me controlled opposition, or whatever you must. But I'm not gonna go there.
Got it?
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If Mr. Franciscan Solitary Confinement wants to startup a revolt, there's an opening for the GCM if he's interested! First, I'm gonna have to insist he tells us the WHOLE story.
:popcorn:
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And for those of you comparing today to 1775, think again!
There was MUCH more support among the colonists for a revolt against England than there are "fervent Traditional Catholics" today.
Even if 100% of Latin Mass attendees could be united, educated, and turned into fervent, 7-day-a-week Catholics understanding the Faith and the Church's social doctrine, and could each somehow be infused with a ton of bravery...
...we'd still be slaughtered. Do you have any idea how outnumbered Latin Mass-attending Catholics are, compared with the rest of the population?
Back in 1775, people still knew how to write, how to read, how to think. Today our minds are enslaved to electronics. We can't even remember things when the Internet is down, because we can't access Google! (How are we supposed to know how many ounces are in a cup or how many feet in a mile when we can't ask Google!)
In 1800 people didn't vote for a presidential candidate because he was better looking. But that's precisely what happened in 1992 -- countless women admitted on national TV that they voted for Clinton because he was better looking than George Bush.
The world is a different place today.
As I've said before, when you're outnumbered 100,000 to 1 (which we are) there is no hope of a human, military victory. Even if you resorted to "asymmetrical warfare" or terrorism, I'd still bet against you winning.
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If Franciscan Solitary had been alive in 33 AD, he would have been one of those ignorant disciples waiting for Our Lord to overthrow the Roman government and restore the Kingdom of Israel politically.
Obviously God's ways are not our ways.
And some things never change. Throughout history, you have men whose thoughts, ideas, and goals scarcely rise above this World.
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Miracles will most certainly be required. The normal kind of credentials won't cut it. Hopefully, we'll be trained enough to be able to discern a nutty cult group from a legitimate Catholic counterstrike along the lines of the Cristeros or something. There will always be some who go for the bait though.
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Miracles will most certainly be required. The normal kind of credentials won't cut it. Hopefully, we'll be trained enough to be able to discern a nutty cult group from a legitimate Catholic counterstrike along the lines of the Cristeros or something. There will always be some who go for the bait though.
Indeed, some go for the bait. Like the followers of these guys:
[34] But one in the council rising up, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while. [35] And he said to them: Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what you intend to do, as touching these men.
[36] For before these days rose up Theodas, affirming himself to be somebody, to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all that believed him were scattered, and brought to nothing. [37] After this man, rose up Judas of Galilee, in the days of the enrolling, and drew away the people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as consented to him, were dispersed.
During the earthly life of Jesus of Nazareth, there were several men like Theodas and Judas of Galilee.
For every Dr. Pepper, you have your cheap imitations (Mr. Pibb, Dr. B, Dr. Thunder, etc.)
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Franciscan Solitary,
First of all, I want to point out that you STILL haven't clearly denied that you're calling for ѕυιcιdє vests, snipers, and IEDs emblazoned with Catholic logos instead of Muslim ones.
I understand what FS is getting at, or at least his words resonate with me even if I can't be certain that they mean for me exactly what FS intended. If you cannot understand, perhaps it is because you are putting the cart before the horse. You wish to have tactics and strategy spelled out before assenting to the goal. Is the goal of restoration worthy of great sacrifice and effort?
Most Catholic men today would say no if they were truly being honest because deep down they see themselves, collectively, as consummate losers. That opinion is false. However, if it was true I would have to agree because no amount of effort by consummate losers could result in the victory of restoration. Another impediment is a kind of loser theology which holds that men daring to fight for restoration would be sinfully guilty of hubris. We are supposed to wait in prayer for God to deliver the victory, or whatever He intends, on a silver platter. The duties of men in this scenario are no different from those of women.
More than the malfactions of liberals, muslims, or Jєωs, I think the greatest reason for the defeat of the Social Kingdom of Christ has been an illogical and almost suicidal loser mentality that has gradually taken over the minds of Catholic men. It is like a tiny mind virus or parasite started in our minds maybe 500 years ago and after each generation grew larger and more voracious in consuming the energy of its host. Banish that loser mentality, and the vistas of possibility open up again.
Let's say I have done that and have committed myself as a soldier in the fight for restoration. What then?
o Train as a soldier within the bounds of my current state. Improve diet, lift weights a couple times per week, and go to the range several times per year.
o Form or join an organization made exclusively of like-minded men. A man cannot serve as a soldier without fellows.
o Develop strategy and tactics suitable to the terrain of the present battlefield. For an organization, this would certainly involve developing a network of successful corporations.
A soldier is deadly serious about accomplishing his mission. He will not waste time on fantasy scenarios or waste his life to "go out in a blaze of glory." Finally, as a soldier he recognizes the superiority of the sword over the pen, or more specifically, of action over yakking.
Humans are not very rational beings and so are mostly impervious to logical argument but they often at least recognize success when they see it. "Many are called but few are chosen." It is probably true that most Catholic men are unwilling or unsuitable for action. If one is suitable or wishes to become so, he should proceed without waiting for others to tag along.
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Some men are just not called to be soldiers.
I think that every Catholic is man is called to fight for the restoration as best he can. However, I recognize it is not realistic to imagine all Catholic men will see things this way.
And here is the real problem: we don't have a king or legitimate army that we can be drafted into.
It would be nice if we had a king, but remember that every kingdom was born in a time of turmoil when there were no such clear lines of demarcation. We need to think outside the box.
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Too many men out there want the restoration..... handed to them...
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It's sad how many people are deluded and willfully ignore every piece of evidence.