CathInfo.com

AI translation.:

Streamed live today in French.



Here we go.

Right, perhaps we'll just say a little prayer to begin our meeting.

We are going to invoke the Holy Spirit, and also for good weather, so that it doesn't rain during the year.

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, amen.

Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of the faithful, and kindle in them the fire of Your love.

Send forth Your spirit, Lord, and [create] a new creation.

Let us pray; O God, who has instructed the hearts of the faithful, grant us by this same Spirit to understand and love what is good, and to enjoy His divine consolation through Jesus Christ, our Lord.

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, amen.

Right, hello everyone, I hope you can see me, that the screen...

It's going to alternate.

I am in Belgium, so we are going to alternate between sun, rain, hail, clouds, and good weather.

There.

You see, there it is, now I am dazzled by your presence.

And so, right, happy to meet you here again, on this April 19th.

And here, it is true that the adage, "In April, don't remove a thread [of clothing]."

It is true that I should have left my little jacket on my back.

So, I am going to talk to you about things that will surely interest you, current events a little bit, of course.

But also about what Catholics experienced, those who were called refractory Catholics, those who refused the revolution and revolutionary principles, how they lived, in fact, ultimately, in hiding.

So, you have the church in China, currently.

You have the Catholics of the underground church, who are really also particularly persecuted.

We don't talk about it much.

And they also speak via Chinese communism, 2.0.

And so, voilà, I am going to talk to you about that.

So, that will give us some ideas to know how to resist.

So, before getting there, I will give what I told you this morning.

I will speak to you about the principles of resistance.

Now, why is it so important?

Because this morning, I spoke to you precisely about the principles of resistance.

To understand how, in the current context, we are living in a context that is revolutionary.

With the wind, it’s not going to be easy.

And so, it is important to understand the principles of resistance well.

Because we have a false resistance.

Now, what is false resistance?

Well, it's very simple.

We, we carry out a resistance that is Catholic.

Essentially, why?

The revolution, at its base, the greatest revolutionary, is who?

It's Satan.

So, our combat, as Saint Paul says, it is not against the men down here, it is not against visible powers.

Saint Paul says that it is against invisible powers.

It is they who weave, in fact, the entire revolution.

And that is what many whom we call resistors do not understand.

They confine themselves solely to a political resistance, economic, what else is there?

Agricultural, health.

So, these people, they confine themselves to a particular form of resistance.

Now, it's not bad in itself, but the problem is that they don't see what we call the overall plan of the revolution.

Because Lucifer, actually, in his plan, it's a Luciferian plan, it's a general plan, he isn't going to confine himself solely to ruining our health, to sending us chemtrails.

In our faces.

Because there are people, they specialize in that, they will do all that.

So, they are going to be passionate, they will explain that yes, indeed, today, we agree that indeed, they are throwing chemistry at us via whatever.

Then, there are others, it's meat.

They will say, you understand, today, the meat, all that, is contaminated.

Okay, we agree.

It's true, it's true.

Health, one must avoid getting vaccinated.

We agree.

But, well, that is a form of, I would say, what we call naturalism.

Good, I'll take an example a little, I am obliged to cite these resistors anyway.

You have, for example, in Russia, what's his name Mr. Moreau, Xavier Moreau, who seems very interesting to me on the geostrategic level.

Good, he denounces effectively, well, he has even, which is a good sign, is that he has nevertheless been banned from banking, he is blocked on financial accounts.

So, we can say that he is nevertheless someone who is in the resistance.

Right.

But when we approach, for example, the question of Russia, saying, but Russia is part of the system and Russia is a component of the revolution, there, he doesn't see it anymore.

So, the example is, for example, the introduction of the digital ruble.

Know that, now, this year, in 2026, that's it, they are going to introduce the digital ruble.

Now, when we talk about it to Xavier Moreau, he will tell you, no problem, it's great, it's technology, it's very good.

Wait, Mr. Moreau, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

We know very well that the digital system is a system designed clearly to enslave us, control us.

So, they will say, yes, but at the start, it's half and half, it will be half.

We will pay you in digital rubles, first part of the salary, second part, it will be normal rubles.

At the start, they are going to do it like that, that's what they will surely do in Europe.

And then, afterwards, they will tell you, yeah, but well, now, after, it's going to be mandatory.

It will be only the digital ruble, you see.

There, so, the problem is that, voilà, there are people who do not see certain dangers.

So, that's what we call naturalism, or others, for example, who are going to confine themselves solely to the agricultural question, agricultural autonomy.

That's it, yes, it's... It's the well-visited watched one.

We are watched, anyway, we already are, because there's no need for them to go put...

I am already live.

So, voilà.

And...

It's very good, precisely, to fight against, and that, I have done it, and we have... We have the...

People, like in France, in particular, precisely, who fight against the vaccination of animals.

And there, you must, the same, as we did also for the vaccination of men.

We had... We had to resist.

We agree.

But you see, after, there are some who stay in that.

They cannot manage to see that there are other plans.

So, therefore, what is essentially Lucifer's goal?

Good, what is the general plan?

The general plan is to attack the glory of Christ.

Destroy the reign of Christ on earth.

The reign, the charity of Christ is that men live simply as... if you will, hell on earth, already, in a certain way.

There.

Live in sin and then go to hell for eternity.

That's all, huh.

It's the plan... if we summarize Lucifer's plan, it's that.

So, the revolution is only a... down here, is only a component of this general plan.

So that is important to see well.

Therefore, for us, the most important thing is to fight, and that's what I was saying, first on the spiritual level.

Seek first the kingdom of heaven and the rest will be given to you in addition.

So, we must understand that the main revolution sits primarily at the level of the Church.

Yes, a question?

Someone asks you, tells you, come back to the fraternity, with an exclamation point.

Precisely not.

Right.

Coming back to the fraternity means coming back...

That is to say accepting part of the revolution.

Some... Now, there are for example people in the fraternity SSPX who have understood certain aspects of the revolution, but when we tell them your superiors are betraying you, there, they have a blindfold.

Good, I would say, well, it's... They don't see, they don't understand, they tell you, that's it, we are going to have bishops.

No, that's not the problem.

The deeper problem.

So, I told you this morning, Bishop Williamson, in his Eleison Commentary, which you can reread, it's volume... well, I don't know, it's number 348, if it interests you.

Principle of resistance.

Here, he gives the principles.

So, I gave you the principles this morning.

First principle, keep the faith.

The permanent principle, is that without faith it is impossible to please God.

And second principle, do you remember the second principle?

I hope you listened this morning.

Yes.

The second principle, is that... The provisional principle, is that today, the shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered.

First principle, we must keep the faith.

Second principle which is rather circuмstantial.

The shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered.

And so, voilà, so we are dealing currently with a revolution that sits at the level of the summit of the Church.

And precisely, this gentleman tells us but come back to the fraternity, that works out very well.

The Bishop did a second issue this morning, I didn't read it to you.

It's called Principle of Resistance number 2, number 354, right.

So the general title is "The world today feels that it is nice, but in the eyes of God, one only deludes oneself."

Right.

So the problem, what is happening today in the fraternity, voilà, so he recalls the principle "Faith is preserved despite the pastor being struck."

Here, the two general principles.

And there, he tells us that there is a man who was given to us by God to show us how we must keep the faith in these times of confusion through the preservation of the true sacrifice, the true priesthood.

This and this man was Archbishop Lefebvre who died in 1991.

And given that the disaster caused in the Church by the conciliar pastors has not substantially changed since his time, so I gave you an example, for example this morning, we see Pope Leo XIV [sic - likely referring to Francis] who goes to Algeria and says to the Algerians "Here, our Muslims, we have the same Father."

Good.

No, we don't have the same Father.

You, you have as Father Satan, we have our Father in Heaven who is Jesus Christ, the Holy Trinity.

We don't have the same Father.

It must be said.

Good, afterwards, one can be polite, but in any case, we don't have the same Father.

So voilà, and that applies only today, so the situation of the crisis of the 70s applies exactly to the letter today.

However, the disaster has increased in such proportions since his death, I think you agree, you cannot say that things have improved since '91.

Good, voilà.

That any movement whatsoever, of any resistance today, would do well to learn the lessons that can be drawn from the impressive fall of this Society of St. Pius X.

Why was there resistance?

It's precisely because there was a fall of the Society of St. Pius X.

Yes?

Someone summarized.

It seems to me that returning to the Fraternity would mean ending a certain freedom of tone on certain subjects in the name of a party policy.

That's it, it's more, it's a loss of judgment.

Archbishop Lefebvre says it, it's a freedom to judge clearly on the situation of the crisis, actually.

Not putting blinders on oneself, not deluding oneself.

So, he talks about it, you see, because voilà.

He says, after the death of Archbishop Lefebvre in '91, during the general chapters of '94 and 2006, the superiors, the chiefs of the Society of St. Pius X never took the full measure of the conciliar disaster.

They don't understand the gravity.

When, for example, Francis said that vaccination was an act of love, it's atrocious, it means he may have caused millions of deaths because of that.

And on the other side, there was no reaction.

They even said, yes, the vaccine, you can take it in certain circuмstances.

But wait, he is sending people to the slaughterhouse.

Moreover, they even say that the people and the Pontiacal Oafs [sic - likely Swiss Guards], not the pontifical oafs, were obliged to be vaccinated.

Finally, the Oafs, we still called it that.

The Swiss Guards.

The Swiss Guards, for example, I call them pontifical oafs.

The Swiss Guards were obliged to be vaccinated under penalty of being sent away.

So, he sent millions of Catholics who got vaccinated to the slaughterhouse.

And the Fraternity, no.

So, for the good reason, then why didn't they take the measure of the gravity of the situation?

He gives the reason for that.

Because they were the children of the decadent years, the 1950s.

In fact, we reason, the Catholics of tradition, many reason like in the 50s, just before the Council.

Or the revolutionary years 1960s, or even later still.

You know, in the traditionalist world, there are people who don't want to go back to counter-revolutionary principles, who remain stuck on the 50s.

Having drunk from the river of the revolution, at the same time as their mother's milk, they never understood to what extent they are mistaken when they find themselves facing churchmen whom they take for Catholics.

You see?

We reason as if they were people who were genuinely Catholic.

No.

Of course, they have a title, we cannot take away the title of pope, of bishop, but you don't discuss with these people like with people...

When you speak with a bishop, monsignor so-and-so, all that, and then afterwards, you go discuss with the bishop of the diocese or the...

You have two different worlds.

It's two worlds.

Anyway, these chiefs, either never studied modernism, so they studied it in theory a little bit in seminary, or never understood what they studied.

And I think that, for example, not to name him, Bishop Fellay, was never confronted with a modernist bishop.

He never fought...

Whereas Bishop Williamson was a convert, he converted from Anglicanism, he fought against... He knew modernists, he fought.

And I think that today, we must give responsibilities to Catholics to the extent that they have fought against modernism and liberalism.

Never should we give to consecrate a bishop who has not proven himself in combat.

For me, it's obvious.

Otherwise, you will make a bishop who will rally sooner or later, or is even already rallied.

So, they were too pious or supernatural.

We will tell you, they are very pious at the chapel, they do prayers for hours.

Piety is useful for everything, says Saint Thomas, says Saint Paul, but piety is not enough.

Pietas cuм doctrina [Piety with doctrine].

You need both.

To think, you see, they were too pious or supernatural to think that this could apply to the men of the official Church whom they had in front of them.

In front of us, we are dealing with madmen.

We are dealing with people who are completely mad.

We are convinced for the people who govern the State, the structures of the State, but we are not convinced enough that we have madmen in front of us governing the Catholic Church.

Madmen, traitors, cowards.

So, of course, they have things that sometimes have a Catholic discourse, they have things like that, but they are completely... You cannot collaborate with these people, it's impossible.

You are in another world.

And that, I think they didn't understand.

It's the problem of certain Catholics.

And so there, that's what Archbishop Lefebvre had understood when he said that this Church, he called it the Conciliar Church, and that is the big problem of the Society of St. Pius X, it never speaks of the Conciliar Church anymore.

It no longer has the notes of the Catholic Church which is one, holy, Catholic, apostolic.

It was not Catholic.

Right.

And that's why they go precisely, please Holy Father, "Would you be willing to give us bishops?"

But...

Do you want to give us Catholic bishops, you who are heretics and who say that the Blessed Virgin is not co-redemptrix?

Because the first thing to do when going to see Father, what's his name, the cardinal who did his heresy, Cardinal Fernandez, is first, you don't have to ask him for a bishop, it is to say "Do you maintain before the whole face of the earth that the Virgin Mary is not co-redemptrix?"

And if you say "Yes," you don't discuss with this guy.

It's not possible.

And afterwards, you say "Yes, but maybe he will say 'Yes' by giving us a Catholic bishop, bishops. But guys, you are completely... But... But it's not possible.

You cannot discuss with these people.

Go discuss with the pope who is telling you that Algerians, Muslims, have the same father as us.

And he is going to give us a bishop.

Yes, of course.

It is natural that where Archbishop Lefebvre maintained the Society of St. Pius X at a safe distance from the conciliar Church, now of distances, it's not a physical distance, because that's easy, it's a spiritual distance.

That is to say, these people, anathema sit [let him be anathema].

We have nothing to do with these people.

As long as they haven't converted.

Because there, they say, ah yes, but it's not a question of saying no, we no longer have contact with them.

No, no, no, no.

You are, you want to maintain contacts with these people.

So voilà.

And neither Bishop Fellay, let's say today Father Pagliarani, will feel Catholic as long as they haven't reached this goal.

This goal is to integrate the Society of St. Pius X progressively or to have it admitted into the bosom of this official Church.

For them, there is no conciliar church.

That doesn't exist.

So, Bishop Williamson says this, faith resides primarily in the intelligence and not in feelings.

You see?

It is certain that one must not have feelings with these people.

We don't do feelings.

We can have feelings with our dog.

You see?

He is digging holes, there.

He is pushing up the garden.

Good.

And we can have feelings and even then with our dog, but not with modernists.

It follows that anyone who has for any reason whatsoever started to recognize that the current direction of the Society of St. Pius X is on the wrong path, needs to continue to study the total problem of the revolution.

You shouldn't tell yourself "Yeah, but I'm trying to say..." No, you must look at things as a whole.

It's very what Bishop Williamson used to do.

He didn't stop simply at this crisis.

He wanted Catholics to study.

Yes, study, very good.

The whole revolution.

You see, it's very important.

And he says because one can have a bookish knowledge of what the revolution is.

Ah, Ecône, right, they read little things on the revolution.

And yet not recognize it when you cross it right under your nose.

Yeah, we don't see.

I feel so good when I feel that everyone is nice, that's Bishop Williamson speaking, that I lose sight of the objective falsity of the great number among us.

But they are nice.

Oh, Rome, they made petits fours and all that.

They welcomed us.

They put out the red carpet and everything.

Oh, but really, how can you talk about [Pope Leo XIV/Francis]?

He is nice, there.

He has a good face.

And in fact, we must see things as God sees them and not us as we feel them, things.

I don't know, there is feminine intuition, that plays a role.

But it's not always, it's not enough.

One must rationally say that these people are madmen, are heretics, are people who are...

Read the encyclical of Saint Pius X on what a modernist is, Pascendi.

He describes the psychology of the modernist.

It's a proud person, a hypocrite, a liar, ambitious.

Here.

He paints you a portrait.

Afterwards, you are there, yes, but still, couldn't we...

No. No. No.

Can we not apply the definition of false resistance to the fraternity by saying that they only attach themselves to the mass and the sacraments?

They only attach themselves to one aspect...

Right, exactly.

I spoke to you about false resistance.

There are the naturalists, and we could say that there are the supernaturalists, those who tell themselves that we saved the mass, the mass, that's all, and that's enough.

No, no, no, no.

You see?

The revolution, it is much vaster than that.

The revolution, yes, exactly.

Regarding consecrations, do they only ask for sacraments?

Yes, for consecrations, for example, they only ask for sacraments.

Could we therefore say that it takes a special grace from God to see this falsity as God sees it himself without losing compassion for all that?

Because it is true that one could be harsh afterwards.

You say, yeah, but still, these people...

It is true that it is annoying.

I agree.

It's annoying.

We tell ourselves still, the guys, they should see anyway that it's nonsense, that we cannot discuss with these people.

Yeah, well, what do you want?

One has to be a little bit... One must have compassion and say, well, they are going to hit a wall sooner or later.

But meanwhile, it's certain that, I would say, they deceive people.

All the... A large part of traditionalists follow this movement.

But, well, he says, watch out, a soul will obtain this grace if it seeks God seriously, especially in prayer and the rosary.

Someone who recites the rosary well, who says their prayers well, who truly seeks the good God in all truth, I cannot believe that at one moment or another, He doesn't put the truth a little bit before their eyes.

Right.

So that, you see, it's very beautiful what Bishop Williamson says.

It completes what I told you this morning on the question of principles of resistance.

And there, he goes a bit, he goes a little further.

He says, why finally do people cling to the fraternity and its current chiefs?

So, he says this, Sunday, an elderly lady gave me a summary.

According to her husband and herself, they struggled bravely in the 70s and 80s and the fruit of their effort, is the chapel itself.

We have the mass with everything that surrounds it, the property, the buildings, the benches, the statues, the ornaments, the schools.

We paid for everything.

And guys, we must buy back again now, we must start over and buy something else.

Well yes.

Right, which threatens the sole existence of resistance.

During all that time, they struggled to restore by themselves the Catholicism of their youth.

For them, it's not about doctrine at all.

Here.

The lady is a member of the third order, but she believes that questions of doctrine belong to priests and bishops.

Yeah, no, that's a question of resistance, that, it's not for us.

We, we are little faithful, we attend mass and then voilà, that's all.

You struggle over stuff, right.

For example, studying the encyclicals of popes is occupying oneself with things reserved by God and the hierarchy.

I asked her if one shouldn't understand one's faith, you see, what Saint Thomas says, pardon, Saint Peter, one must be able to argue for one's faith.

Why does your faith tell you to do that?

Ah, one must be able to explain.

Because I feel it.

You aren't going to be able to... The answer...

So there, if each soul won't have to answer for its knowledge of its faith, the answer seemed to me as sincere as it was astonishing.

They said no, the responsibility of the Catholic is to obey his superiors.

Right.

So we always come back.

And if these are mistaken, obey anyway.

Okay, I am going to obey anyway.

I am going, on July 1st, I am going to Ecône because they told me, the superior told me that I had to go to Ecône for the consecration of bishops.

Anything else is rebellion.

You are rebels and then you create bad spirit.

Just questioning superiors on matters of doctrine on the part of a Catholic, is a sign of rebellion.

Right, you rebels.

Because that does not concern.

If the superior is in error, it is God who will judge.

One will never be mistaken in obeying priests.

But we... And here, resistors are rebels who disobey and lack respect.

You break unity.

Come back to the fraternity.

How dare they question their superiors?

What presumption to study doctrine, to question these superiors on that?

Are resistors wicked because their doctrine is false?

No.

Right.

But because their words and actions threaten the Catholicism of the 50s.

We threaten fifty-ism.

But I say, blind obedience is ridiculous.

What must we do, we other sheep, when the shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered?

We reassure ourselves that everything is fine and we let ourselves be devoured by wolves in the name of obedience?

What to say to such people?

Right.

And... Right.

So it's... It's really... One could say the...

Right.

It will suffice to submit the chapels of the Society of St. Pius X to the control of the local bishop through a Vatican II agreement or by a de facto cooperation with the priests of the Novus Ordo.

Something we observed here.

Right.

So that's what will happen... That's what is already happening actually progressively.

Right.

Are there questions?

No, it's okay?

No questions?

Someone says that you got thrashed by Abosite and that we asked...

Me?

Abosite?

No, no, I don't know who...

Ah yes, it's the lawyer.

The lawyer who... Got thrashed when?

Well, I don't know.

I don't know.

I'm not aware.

So there.

So... Uh... No, that's... Notre Dame de Saint-Gaulle, I had already talked about that... Notre-Dame de Paris, I had already talked about that.

Right.

So I arrive at something that will really interest you.

It is to see how... There, I gave you the theory a bit, if you will.

And now, we are going to arrive at practice.

Whoa!

Really?

Very good.

Okay.

Happy to know.

So... Uh... So the... The Catholics...

Our current situation is not new, so to speak.

Well, it is amplified, but it is not new.

Huh?

What is amplified is that today, the entirety of the high clergy is corrupt.

During the French Revolution, there were still priests, there were still bishops, and so it was still easier for laypeople to go underground, because they still had the support of refractory bishops, refractory priests.

And so, you have a work, it's called "Clandestine Masses During the Revolution" by Marie-Paul Biron.

So, she drew a lot of inspiration from authors, so in the sources, you have a lot of Vigris, well authors, historians, there are many references.

Right.

What interested me, so is the practice.

It's a bit how, so you are aware, the clergy, the juring one, could officially keep titles, so they could remain curé, titular bishop, and all that, they remained in place.

And those who did not adhere to the civil constitution of the clergy, which had been condemned by the pope, actually, it was to make a state clergy, in fact.

The Revolution simply wanted to get its hands on the clergy and make it a state clergy, a revolutionary clergy.

Right.

Like in China, actually, it's the same thing.

So suddenly, the pope condemned, it's Pius VI, I believe, I had condemned the civil constitution, and so it was easy, you had the support of authority, so it was much easier.

Afterwards, one had to concretely leave one's parish, leave one's... Everything, religious practice, so Catholics were in a state of disorganization.

So there, he describes, the author describes the mass and the underground.

So he says, for example, there was great difficulty therefore already getting to clandestine masses.

So it's you, some tell me, yeah, but here, mass, resistance, in Belgium, there aren't many, it's true that there aren't many.

In France, there aren't many either.

We are obliged to travel.

But rest assured, at the time, they didn't have cars.

They had to go on foot, they didn't have...

Right.

So, the problem that arose at the time, and it's a little bit our problem too, is that there was nevertheless a certain rigidity of liturgical rules.

You need an altar, you need things like that.

Roman Catholics have rites, right.

And in fact, so that worship remained somewhat dignified anyway, the bishops nevertheless gave dispensations.

You see?

For example, in 1791, the bishop of Luçon had nevertheless given some directives.

One needed a portable altar, a simple chasuble, vessels of pewter.

So, you see, golden vessels were no longer even necessary.

Will suffice in a case of necessity to celebrate the holy mysteries.

Right.

You see, we tell ourselves, oh good, it's reassuring finally, we didn't need to... Because we try a bit today, to hold Catholics by saying, yeah, but if we don't have a church, if we don't have a thingamajig, what will become of us?

You see, good, right.

Afterwards, anyway, the bishops gave, says, voilà, Bishop de Rohan accepted that chalices of common materials, but he wanted them to be kept in the greatest cleanliness.

He reminded priests of the necessity to remain in their parish, to officiate there clandestinely, clandestinely if necessary, sheltered from persecutions.

Right, so, the ordinance of a bishop of Oise.

Sir curés and vicars of the department who were not in the former diocese of Beauvais have already been warned that they intended to change nothing until further orders in their usages.

Right.

So, in fact, a certain flexibility in objects of worship.

That, I pass over.

It's that there, it was bishops who gave permission.

Right.

So that's why Archbishop, for example, Lefebvre, had given a lot in practical directives precisely to simplify the mass.

For example, one can say mass, if we say mass outside or in [consens? - unclear word], we are not obliged to have candles lit.

You see?

Or little things like that, simple things.

Afterwards, there is the question of the sacred species.

You know that, good, normally, one cannot do just anything with the Blessed Sacrament.

Right.

Catholics remain very vigilant in the face of threats always of persecution.

Well, it's true that we, during the lockdown, for example, we were a bit scared anyway that the police would arrive suddenly and interrupt the worship.

That might have been the case.

So,

if for example, one could open, if the police arrived and discovered objects of worship, it became evidence to imprison the inhabitants of the house.

A practice common enough to be reported consisted of burying objects of worship as quickly as possible once mass was finished.

For example, in Finistère, in a barrel buried in the ground, they had vestments, an altar stone, two registers with baptisms, marriages, a bad cassock and a bayonet fitted onto a stick.

So, that is to say, voilà, he... Yes.

Right.

And then, for example, in another village, mass finished, vestments and sacred vessels were brought back into a field covered with gorse in the middle of which they had made a hiding place.

So, imagine the field of gorse in Brittany, then in the middle, there was a hiding place with the vestments.

Right.

Etc.

Mustn't the bishop have jurisdiction to make this kind of decision?

In fact, he kept, he considered that, even being a juror [sic - meant non-juror/refractory], he kept his... refractory, he kept jurisdiction over priests.

The priests did not recognize... Refractory priests, refractory priests did not recognize the jurisdiction of bishops who had... Jurors, we called them jurors, juring bishops.

Even by... I believe that certain Chouans have... For example, there is also the announcement of offices.

They told me, I said, that on the Internet, on Telegram, there was a problem because people were scattered.

How did they manage to announce offices?

That might happen to us.

It took the ingenuity of clerics and especially laypeople to make secret an exterior worship with church and bells and give the mass a minimum of impact for a manifestation of worship essentially public.

Because the mass, it is not a private act, it is a public act.

So, one cannot always ring the bells, one couldn't dance.

The masses, therefore, said in hiding, had the goal of gathering if not a parochial community, so the old parish, at least a few scattered faithful whom one had to notify of the place and time.

So, ringing bells, that was forbidden, outlawed by the revolutionaries, it was even sometimes demolished, the bells had been removed.

So, masses celebrated at night were announced during the day, most often by word of mouth, from one hedge to another, from woods to broom field, right, and we will say mass tonight at such place.

Arab telephone [game of telephone].

There will be mass at such hour, such night at Cargouette.

Right, there were also agreed signs, material signs first of all, such as an overturned stone, a broken tree branch placed at the edge of the path, a candle lit inside a window or any other convention that indicated the meeting place.

Right.

The problem, is distance.

So, the problem today, is distance, effectively.

But you see, there were sonic signs, farmer's wives pretending to call hens and chickens in certain parishes of the Midi.

Women traversed streets and shook small bells along the way.

In other regions, still, they hung a small bell on a dog.

Yes, it will be necessary to serve.

In the streets of Poitiers, calls of "minettes" [kitty/pussycat].

"Minettes" served sometimes as a signal for mass.

A shepherd sounded calls on horns that initiates counted.

Also, they knew where to meet and at what time.

So, right.

Above the door of Madame Bergeron's hardware store, she hung near the sign of the fleet of England a bouquet of flowers in order to warn initiates that a mass was going to be celebrated and that the Blessed Sacrament would be exposed.

At the entrance, we will say "Oh, there, that means..." Right.

Right, so there are all sorts.

So after, there was the question of the choir.

Should one sing or not at clandestine masses?

So, certain priests, there were the hymns of Blessed de Montfort that had spread in the countryside.

People sang by heart.

Good.

And so, in fact, what happened, is that before the Revolution, choir offices it was more priests and clerics, the clergy who sang, in fact.

So, secrecy is going to in fact make the faithful participate in the choir.

Yes, that's what we see today.

That's what you do, finally.

On one hand, it limited its importance by avoiding all exterior brilliance, all useless pomp.

Songs were strictly... We went to the essential.

Bishop de Marbeuf specifies even that his rules in the exercise of Holy Ministry, he says this.

"We forbid all singing in the assembly of the faithful which will not be done in a church and we mean in the church itself reconciled, occupied by missionaries recognized as such, by appropriate authority, any singing whatsoever take place only after express permission of our vicars general."

So, even in a church, you see, it was still... So, it was to prove to what extent liturgy was very regulated by bishops.

So, suddenly, what is going to happen?

Secrecy will provoke the opposite phenomenon and faithful will pour out their joy through the gushing forth of song.

So, it's going to in fact have an effect on the participation of a certain way more active of faithful in mass.

And then, Father Coudrin, I don't know if you know, was a priest likewise who was... I believe he died saintly, this father.

He offered himself the malicious pleasure of playing a good trick on Jacobins and beating them by with their own weapons and singing even louder.

So, he sang.

Right, he amused himself, he liked that, he provoked a little bit.

He made people sing and he sang.

Right, then, there was another subject obviously that posed problems, it's the question of the real presence.

The real presence, the Blessed Sacrament, how can one keep the Blessed Sacrament?

There is no church and it's a bit new as a context.

So, secrecy, is symbol of precariousness and so necessarily, how to conserve the real presence?

Also, worship having become itinerant did not fail to raise difficulties because in addition, it was never the same place.

A chapel, a house, then a high [place? - unclear word, maybe 'hut'?], a barn, etc.

And knowing that one could say that Catholics of that time, that's what Mr. de Vigré explains, had nevertheless a great devotion to the Blessed Sacrament.

Today, one would say that people do a bit of anything and everything with the sacrament.

We have the impression that we can put it anywhere, anyhow.

At the time, it was still... No, it was still...

So, the Church is going to... They are going to accentuate in fact devotion to the Blessed Sacrament.

Mass will be said, Benedictions and Benedictions also, a lot.

And faithful are going to receive the signal honor of keeping the Blessed Sacrament and having mass celebrated regularly at their homes.

Their dwelling becomes an oratory, in a way.

So, people come.

In Bordeaux, at Mr. Arnauzan's, in his house, an oratory well established and even richly decorated.

So there, there was a description by an historian.

In order to have mass said there both for himself and for other other persons who gathered with him and then keep the very blessed sacrament.

Right, so they magnificently decorated these private places.

By contrast, the oratory in Poitiers, so it's a simple woman called la Guste, "The Blessed Sacrament is kept in a recess of the wall, too poor to buy candlesticks. She puts candles in bottles decorated with paper festoons."

I don't know what that looks like.

It's a little bit...

Good.

Anyway good, we see in all that precisely great devotion to Blessed Sacrament.

So it was nevertheless a certain heartbreak for Catholics, you see, to arrive at this kind of...

to modify things.

So suddenly, what happens?

So that, that interests you a little.

Masses are less frequent and they are less attended.

One must not idealize secrecy either.

There weren't thousands of people who attended.

It was still... Even if effectively it marked Catholic history, history of Revolution.

For example, in Orne, the... Right.

In Orne, they count 400 masses.

In Haute-Loire, 300.

One would say that's still better than today.

In Aveyron, likewise.

A hundred in Sarthe.

So I don't know here, in... Here.

Right.

There are... There are regions where there was no more mass at all.

There are sometimes priests, non-jurors who did not take oath who can maintain themselves in their parish.

Good, it's a bit exceptional, but it can happen.

Do you remember that they are the non-jurors, that?

Yes, yes, yes.

Right.

So Vendeans were particularly... And that's why Vendée I read before bishop of Annecy what he says.

So the first bishop of Annecy by way of recommendation to his priests "Be very prudent, very few masses."

Right.

"Despite threats that weighed on mass, it nonetheless continued to exist even if worship had taken refuge in sanctuary of consciences and in places known to piety of faithful alone."

So that, sounds like Geneva area.

Right.

There are regions where there is no more, for example, in Loire valley, it's very astonishing, there was no more mass at all.

Nothing left.

Absence of worship.

Right.

Father de... Ah yes, that's it, Father de Clorivière.

Yes?

When you speak of mass, is it solely masses with faithful or is it priests' daily masses?

How did they do?

So, there was no daily mass.

Daily mass, it was masses... They said mass when there were faithful.

That's all.

Yes.

Because the priest is not strictly bound to mass, except for great feasts or feasts of obligation.

The faithful too.

So, that's why I think that clandestine masses, it must have been for masses of obligation on Sunday and all that.

During the week, it happens, they did not say mass.

Permission to say mass without faithful, is it recent?

Ah no, no, one cannot.

We do not have the right to say mass without a faithful.

I don't know.

No, there is always a server.

Always.

Always a server.

So, Father de Clorivière said to Mademoiselle de Cissé to incite her to come to Paris, it is in Paris that one will find more means, resources to do good in a more secret and safer manner.

It's not false.

Because in big cities, in fact, you gather more people and you have more ease hiding yourself in a certain way.

Many other priests were doubtless close to thinking like him.

Right.

Monsignor de Marbeuf, now that, was in the... I don't know anymore where it was, in which diocese.

He did this, he said to his missionaries, these priests, to procure for faithful consolation of hearing mass, Sundays of feasts by celebrating them alternatively in parishes of their canton.

Right.

So it was therefore frequency desired in clandestine church.

So he said, you see, there were places where there was mass, almost every Sunday.

So you know of course a saint, who was Father... Noël Pinault.

Well rather, he was not canonized, but he is blessed.

Blessed Noël Pinault.

He was curé in the Mauges, of Louroux-Béconnais.

But it's not far from Saint-Aignan, there.

He is going to leave therefore his parish.

He is going to be... Right.

He is going to celebrate clandestinely for years.

Right.

These priests often extended their ministry over several communes where clandestine relays allowed them to say mass periodically.

Right.

So it wasn't every day, you see.

Right, that's it.

So as clandestine church wished, masses seem to have been more numerous during great liturgical feasts, like Christmas, All Saints and especially Easter.

Faithful really wanted to have Easter mass.

Right.

And mistrust that leads authorities to search more actively for refractory priests and monitor more closely still clandestine worship, numerous denunciations of illicit gatherings would be proof.

Right.

You see, they had to put pressure at moment of... That's what they did with Covid.

I don't know if you noticed, they started just before Easter, coincidently.

It wasn't time that they get wet again [idiom?].

No.

No, no, and there, it was a... Right.

So, you have nevertheless priests who managed to drain a lot of people in Vendée, there again, in place of Chanzeau, Abbé Blondel de Rie.

Rie, was native village of Saint John Eudes.

He was born in Rie.

He said every Sunday mass for neighboring communes.

Whole population of surroundings gathered in an immense multitude come from very far to hear it and it is 8 or 10,000 people who pressed around a mass to attend mass.

So, we count them, people came from far.

Then there, they didn't have just an hour's walk.

They must walk several hours, even more a whole day.

For example, in night of September 23 to 24, 1792, Father Antoine Sylvestre will celebrate mass in front of 2,000 people.

He preached and celebrated mass in lodge that served for cattle.

So there, for example, there are also oratories that are obviously... he describes oratories that are completely unusual.

Sanctuaries would not always make communities.

Several priests, bishops in exile lament present situation of Church of France, obviously.

So voilà, oratory, we are in Bordeaux, said it was a small room, a small piece.

Right, I was able... Wait, where was it?

Right.

Castle chapel.

Yes, we find again a bit what we did, us, huh.

Chapels of confraternities, hospices, congregations, churches of remote villages, oratories at crossroads, pilgrimage chapels, right, so many places that were fairly infrequent, well, where there was no mass formerly.

And then, huh?

Attic, yes, yes.

Clandestine masses are said as well in private mansions of former nobility as in bourgeois dwellings, back shops or more modest lodgings still.

One must imagine houses of this end of 18th, awkward, with cut ceilings, thick walls, with deep embrasures, cramped alcoves.

So, one imagines people who were in stairs or I don't know how, well, a bit in all directions.

Yeah.

So, there is Abbé Chaminade who is known too.

He, was clever.

There are houses with nooks to hide.

He must have been owner therefore of a house in Bordeaux where various hiding places were arranged in interior.

One of them was a subterranean chamber accessible by a trapdoor that opened in fruit cellar. Abbé Chaminade, he said mass.

He took refuge also in case of alert.

Trapdoor closed then over him and dissimulated itself under a layer of straw.

There were reviewed priests.

So, there are priests with everything.

Yes, that's it, wood paneling or furniture that conceals a hiding place.

Father Coudrin says mass in almost all houses of faubourg of Poitiers provided that they have several stories.

Right.

Monsieur de Coursac cites one that had 18.

So there, it's okay.

We are tranquil.

So, in fact, most priests went into cities to find there a certain refuge, in fact, paradoxically, and do a clandestine ministry.

Many preferred isolation of countryside.

Farms became chosen places.

For example, Abbé Blanier, there, I don't know in which diocese, believing himself intruder as in commune of Pomarède, to which he had been appointed by last electoral assembly, he slipped away from this parish and goes to Saint-Vincent by preference to widow Grézel because she had an isolated house.

Right.

Abbé Pinot, whom I spoke to you about just before, he chose, him, farm of Fourcheries to celebrate a first communion.

They were twelve. Monsieur Pinot not having been able to exceed this number so as not to arouse too many suspicions, and it is in barn that ceremony took place.

Right.

And so, how was it decorated?

Children remembered, imagine children coming to these clandestine masses.

Barn had been ordered as one had been able with foliage, garlands of ivy, a few chairs, benches had been brought for old people, women and heads of family.

Bundles of straw served as seat for young people and children.

That's it, in fact, it's that.

Curé d'Ars, he explains that, aged 13, he was 13, but they speak of it just, he had communed with 16 young people with him.

They were led separately in their ordinary costume into a large room whose shutters were closed because children would each have a modest candle and it was not necessary that from outside one saw glimmer.

Candle of... For height of precaution, in front of windows, one had loaded carts of hay and during ceremony, to better give wrong scent, men worked at unloading them.

Right.

So, it was... Right.

It was easy for them.

So, then, so, what is interesting, so I am going to pass a little bit all that, aspects a little bit factual.

So, offices were obviously threatened.

Right, for example, precisely, we see well even that republicans did not hesitate to interrupt offices.

Police finally seized Blessed Noël Pinault and priest could not always flee.

Thus, was surprised Noël Pinault, dissimulated in a kneading trough and Monsieur de Raymond Lalande who, losing his head, had thrown himself flat, on belly, under a bed.

Right.

So, it is certain that there, they don't have touch.

Right.

They could well be clandestine, there are moments where they got caught.

So, clandestine mass, in fact, was a benefit for Catholics.

It was a benefit regarding spiritual life of Catholics.

Monsignor de Bernis, bishop of Albi, exclaimed some years before events "I would indeed like to end my life without being witness to revolution that threatens clergy and religion."

So, everyone felt that there was going to be, one could say, it was pre-council.

It was people who felt that there was a revolution brewing, but not this time, in Church, but in civil society with Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ.

"Pray, says Monsignor Grégoire Lambelot, my brethren, for we are going to be sifted as one sifts wheat. Straw flies away and there remains only good grain."

So, Father de Clorivière, you know a Picot de Clorivière, it's likewise, a great counter-revolutionary, he had sensed nefarious consequences of philosophical principles, Diderot, Voltaire and all that.

He had sensed necessity to fortify souls in a sermon that he addresses parish of Paramé.

Paramé, is right next to Rennes.

"Ten years before revolution." Listen well.

"The second species of idolatry is that of philosophers.

I do not speak of ancients, but of moderns.

Yes, I speak of those men whose number is already great, whose heart is so perverted that they work to annihilate Christianity, worship of true God." We cannot say that French Revolution is only people and illuminati who suddenly appear.

One could say that philosophy of Enlightenment prepared this combat to death.

"Father de Beauregard, at Notre-Dame de Paris, if ever by a just punishment of our lukewarmness, God allowed that this philosophy prevail, that faith of Jesus Christ be exiled, torch of religion almost extinguished, then you would see darkness of paganism cover again earth, these temples destroyed or changed into temples of idols, vice reign openly, blood of faithful flow again and Bloody altars." Interesting, huh?

"Pray, my brethren, it's always Father de Clorivière, fear, watch over yourselves, instruct yourselves in your religion." So it's really interesting to see that there had already been a warning.

So, I finish, wait, it's not that.

So after, concretely, since they realize that it's going to be difficult to sanctify themselves in a normal framework, they are going to especially insist on family worship.

That, is very interesting.

I read to you for example a writing of Father Demaris, which is very interesting.

He says this, "Warning addressed to Roman Catholics in 83 departments.

One is not bound to attend mass, precept established by Church.

This precept obliges, but one is not bound to observe it when a precept, superior and narrower obligation, forbids it.

Then, it suffices to do at home what one cannot do in our temples.

it is an incontestable principle.

Like for example, defense of entry to schismatic churches, danger of scandal.

That is what can reassure scrupulous souls and incite faithful to adopt other forms of piety to sanctify Sunday." Yes, because people are used to Sunday worship.

They are told, "No, no problem.

You have bishop, bishop now who was appointed by State, priest who is in parish, who says mass Saint Picin [sic - likely Saint-Sulpice or similar, maybe just a placeholder name], no problem.

You can attend it." And so there, no, he says no.

"If it is impossible to hear mass Sunday and feasts, one must not for all that dispense oneself from sanctifying it.

On contrary, one must be carried by new motive, new fervor and more ardent zeal.

One must specially in these holy days recall example of prophet Daniel who, captive in a foreign land, opened his windows towards holy city and three times a day, bent knee adored his God and offered sacrifice of praise." So, you see, he recalls a bit necessity to sanctify oneself.

And obviously, faithful are worried.

"Absence of worship worries faithful who fear seeing faith gradually extinguish among them.

Dogmatic catechism reassures them.

Let us not fear losing faith while we put everything to work to conserve it." You see, if you resist those who want to destroy faith, you aren't going to lose faith.

"God will not abandon us if we remain firmly attached to God.

He will supply interiorly by his grace exterior help of which we will be deprived." One must trust God.

It's a bit an abandonment to divine will which sometimes can even wean us from sensible exterior means.

And Monsignor de Marbeuf, I don't know of which diocese he was bishop.

"If misfortunes of time deprive you of attending holy sacrifice of mass and participating as often as you desire in holy mystery, fear not and do not become discouraged for that.

You will lose nothing thereby.

God himself will take place of pastor, guide, support.

He will pour out on your souls abundant measure of grace,

of strength, of constancy to put you in state to resist all temptations of enemy and in time of greatest scarcity of exterior help of their religion.

He will make you gather interiorly treasures of blessing." Right, so he explains all that in a...

Right, and so Father de Clorivière goes further still.

Blessed, he is blessed, I believe.

He envisages not only consolations from which faithful can benefit in time of persecution, but still, he explains how to realize without material support continual sacrifice that privation of mass necessitates for faithful.

He envisages finally spiritual communion or how one can find Eucharist in its privation itself.

Right, that works... He doesn't explain.

Very good.

So, there there is still another author, a sermon of Father Yves-Michel Marchais in 1797 who says this "Let us never forget that if God in his indignation confounds sooner or later profaners of his temples" Good, I pass remainder "He loves also, he protects, he sanctifies, he saves all those who know how to honor themselves and serve themselves by adoring him, serving him with fidelity." Right, so he gives principles, you see, clergy is going to give guiding principles so that people, good Catholics continue to sanctify themselves in this moment of spiritual scarcity, you see, apparent scarcity.

So, they insist also a lot on union of prayer.

Right, union of prayer.

Right, pope, so, it's in Ecclesiastical News or memoir to serve constitution.

That, is in references, I don't know too much where.

Pope granted indulgences not only to priests who will say mass for peace of France and Church, but also for faithful who will recite prayers for half an hour before noon uniting themselves with attention with him.

for example, there were priests who were prisoners who could not say mass.

They were in Carmelites, they found themselves in same situation, they were deprived of mass.

So, he united himself, lack of being able to celebrate, in thought to that of pope, he knew, so there it is again there in references of Father Barruel, he knew doubtless at what time pope usually says his mass.

Right, he united himself to this mass.

Ah, right.

Abbé Nicolas Musard, curé of parishes of Somme, at Chalon-sur-Mannes, guillotined in 1696 [sic - likely 1796].

He had withdrawn into a room with two confreres and another person in order to unite himself in spirit to holy sacrifice that was being offered for him in city.

It's reported by Abbé Caron.

Right.

So, it's a practice.

So, they called that, in fact, also white masses.

I don't know if you know this history of white masses.

They are meetings, in fact, where a parishioner took initiative to gather a few faithful in absence of priests in a village church or house of private individual.

So, there were denunciations, obviously, and it's how we are aware of this practice.

But it was, so it was organized by clergy.

So, I don't know anymore if I find again this reference.

So, so, where do I find again?

Passage where we have bishops, because bishops did not want anyway too much that laypeople interfere a bit in affairs that concern only clergy, so question of mass.

So, they are going to codify a bit, right, they are going to codify a little bit exercise of these white masses.

Did he go up to altar?

Did he remain at lectern?

Is he well... One must admit that most of time, there was nothing but very innocent and very praiseworthy, at least in intention of proven practices of dancers [sic - likely transcription error for something else, perhaps 'devotees'?].

No, no, no, no, it was...

But that doesn't call itself a mass, then?

No, but they called that white masses, in fact.

They united themselves to a mass.

It's a bit like here if one sanctifies, but after having your agreement or agreement of a...

It's a bit that, right, it's that.

I found again passage where bishop gives a bit practical directives to say how one must do.

It's a bit what are moderations, agapes that we don't have enough priests.

That's it, right.

Yes, there is no reason.

No, there, there is no reason, effectively.

There are no cars, me.

Yes.

White mass was a form of resistance that was born from initiative of laypeople, hence, right, it's true that clergy was a little bit, at start, a bit...

Right.

For them, worship, you see, it's of these mass, it's clergy.

So, there is another devotion that appeared equally, it is reparative devotion.

I spoke to you, so of that famous congregation that appeared after Revolution called "Sisters Reparers of Divine Justice".

Because Revolution, Catholics saw so many horrors, you see, practiced against religion, blasphemies, sacrileges, frightful things, that during Revolution itself, there are many Catholics who wanted to repair everything that was being done, everything they saw under their eyes.

"Suffering of persecution stirred up devotion to Sacred Heart, devotion that was going to reverberate on ecclesial piety".

And one can say that, you see, all this spirit of reparation that we have