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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Machabees on November 24, 2013, 10:56:15 PM

Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on November 24, 2013, 10:56:15 PM
I have just learned that Fr. Rostand is giving a public conference in Post Falls Idaho on Friday Dec. 6, 2013 @ 6:30 pm about “the current situation of the Church”.

I do not know if he is speaking of the Catholic Church or the “Church of Fellay” (sspx)?  However, for those who attend Post Falls, please let us know with an update, any good news, or direction of this first new conference since the “rebranding” happened.

Will it be a conversion, more of the same, or a continued progression of “political crumbs” from Bishop Fellay that Pope Francis is a “modernist”…we will see.

I only hope that he will remember his oath as a Priest of Jesus Christ, stop the antics, and feed His sheep the true purity of Doctrine…without maintaining the false obedience to the superior.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 24, 2013, 11:29:09 PM
.

Well this is great news.  

The Faithful of Idaho have something wonderful to look forward to,
just before the arrival of the Second Sunday of Advent.  Kind of a
sort of triple anticipation, if you will.  

What will the District Superior bring besides his compromised
pronunciation of English?  

Will he have any hit-men in the crowd to attempt to overwhelm old
ladies like his boss did in Ireland?  (Ask John Grace about that.)

You know, Irish ladies are a tough breed.  But I must say, I've
known not a few who've made it to the West Coast of America
whose mettle is a bit more than one might expect capable for the
gentler sex.  We have some Irish women who are tough as nails
out here.  

I wonder how many are in Post Falls?  

And it's when a good man has such a woman to come home to
that he may think twice about whether he's going to be a brave
soldier in the front lines.

This little event might be worth making the trip for, even if it's a few
hundred miles, or a thousand or three.  


.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on November 25, 2013, 01:04:46 PM
We're going to try to gain entry.  It may be a problem, however, since I'm known to the ICC faithful and to Fr. Rostand.  I may not get beyond the door.  I think maybe that "public meeting" will have a definite Menzingen spin put on it.  In any case, if the Dec. 6 meeting is anything like the previous Rostand fiasco there, no more than 15% of the congregation will attend anyway.  
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: JPaul on November 27, 2013, 06:50:57 PM
Quote from: hollingsworth
We're going to try to gain entry.  It may be a problem, however, since I'm known to the ICC faithful and to Fr. Rostand.  I may not get beyond the door.  I think maybe that "public meeting" will have a definite Menzingen spin put on it.  In any case, if the Dec. 6 meeting is anything like the previous Rostand fiasco there, no more than 15% of the congregation will attend anyway.  


Well, you can be the canary in the mine to see if the air is still poisoned....... :furtive:
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: TheRecusant on November 28, 2013, 02:10:36 AM
It will be to imitate his master, and show off his new found Traditionalist credentials. Bishop Fellay broke the 6-month silence on Francis, so now we can expect all his understudies to do the same. Only perhaps not quite as articulately nor as convincingly. Fr. Rostand is a "poor man's Fellay". He does his best, but it's never quite the real thing...
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Wessex on November 28, 2013, 04:56:58 AM
I suppose the tone has to be set for the Bergoglio era. No more regressive tendencies in Rome to encourage Menzingen's liberal ones. The convergence has hit a roadblock. So, what to do? That will depend on any general conservative backlash within the conciliar arena. But I am not holding my breath; 'internal resistance' of the quiet kind seems to be quite congentital. Keeping the flock docile and generous will be Fr. R's main mission. His script will predictably emphasise how well they are being served, the costs of the operation (on doomed projects or otherwise), having trust in the leader and avoiding schism (meaning those nasty independents, excluding himself, of course). Bergoglio bashing, I am not so sure. Father is a bureaucrat, so do not expect much there.      
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on November 28, 2013, 08:50:35 AM
Yes, I believe Fr. Rostand's tone will be on those type of lines as well.

With that said, I thought perhaps we can take the opportunity to draw up some honest questions to ask him.  Even if he keeps up on Cathinfo, I am sure that he does, and reads these honest questions being posed from people within his District, it may also guide his conscience in the right direction to see that there are still viable questions out there, before God, that he needs to [honestly] answer; regardless if he does, tries to avoid them, or if he wants to; they still exist to be answered.

Using a number system, I will begin:

1 -  Is the SSPX still perusing an arraignment for a practical deal with Rome?

2 -  Is there anything in the works at present, in spite of the new Pope's "modernism" that Bishop Fellay mentioned?

3 -  If so, is the outline of the 2012 General Chapter still in effect to facilitate a deal with Rome?

4 -  If not, then does the General Chapter reconvene to make another outline for the SSPX?

5 -  The District Superior from Canada, Father Jürgen Wegner, had mentioned that the SSPX had begun a new image through a branding company from Holland, is that true?  If so, has that been completed yet?  And, what is the new image that Bishop Fellay is looking for?
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on November 28, 2013, 01:09:41 PM
Quote
I suppose the tone has to be set for the Bergoglio era.


Yes, how does Menzingen move closer to Rome in the "Bergoglio era."  This pope, who wears his modernism on his sleeve, makes the going tougher for Fellay.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on December 04, 2013, 11:11:38 AM
Just a reminder for those in the Post Falls area.

Fr. Rostand is giving His conference in two days.  Please prepare your sincere questions for an overall good to happen.

As the Good God always hopes, we must also hope for a responsibility and a conversion to happen; with family, friends, and religious in this crisis and fierce battle with the arch-enemy of Christ and our souls -the devil; who goes about seeking to apostate and devour souls.

Please pray, as every opportunity is a good opportunity.

Viva Christo Rey...
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 06, 2013, 02:31:34 AM
.

Your questions must be voiced with a smile in the tone, and without any semblance of confrontation.  But don't let that approach take you off guard.  Listen to what he says, and quote his words back to him so that he knows he has been heard.  Let his own words be the things that gets him upset, if anything.  Let him show himself to be the cause of his own discomfort.  It shouldn't be too difficult to do, since he says quite a lot to embarrass himself.  

.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: JPaul on December 06, 2013, 07:58:21 AM
It will be a waste of time, good money after bad.
The good Father is not going to be there to have discussions. He will be there to repeat Menzingen's version and justifications for events and to defend the King and the King's authority.
It matters not if he is verbally bested or made to look the fool by his own accord, in the end, nothing will change.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: bowler on December 06, 2013, 09:16:21 AM
Quote from: J.Paul
It will be a waste of time, good money after bad.
The good Father is not going to be there to have discussions. He will be there to repeat Menzingen's version and justifications for events and to defend the King and the King's authority.
It matters not if he is verbally bested or made to look the fool by his own accord, in the end, nothing will change.


I agree that it is a waste of time, however, if it was made easy for me to attend, I would go just to hear first hand all of the beating around the bush. And who knows, maybe a good fight may errupt, or someone could start laughing at what he says.

If it was done on Sunday after mass, and they provided food, I would go. Or maybe not if there was good weather and my son wanted to go fishing.

From another thread I wrote this, and I correct it to apply to hearing Fellay, Rostand, Phlueger  La Rue etc.

Quote
I'd rather stick pins into my eyes than have to go through the TORTURE of reading Kant or any other philosopher listening to any neo-SSPX apologist priest  trying to figure out things as he writes/lives (JPII, BV16, Francis). .... Maybe it is because I'm a man of action, preferring to spend my time outdoors doing physical activities, but now, knowing what I know, I think God had provided me with the gift of abhorring nonsense.

When I came back to the Church, I read more books during my first year than I had read all my previous life. I read them because they were the truth, and I knew it as I read it. Conservative Novus Ordo books like what comes out of The Rock and The Wanderer, I read like a few pages and then dropped, because they were not the same, they were not of the full truth, they were beating around the bush, not a good sign (like Bp. Fellay and any neo-SSPX apologist priest writes now). I didn't finish one of those "conservative" Catholic books.

Bottom line, maybe either you have it or you don't, the protection I had. At the very least I simply do not have the curiosity to go through the TORTURE of reading theory and nonsense. PERIOD!
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: John Anthony on December 06, 2013, 01:18:13 PM
Quote from: Machabees
Yes, I believe Fr. Rostand's tone will be on those type of lines as well.

With that said, I thought perhaps we can take the opportunity to draw up some honest questions to ask him.  Even if he keeps up on Cathinfo, I am sure that he does, and reads these honest questions being posed from people within his District, it may also guide his conscience in the right direction to see that there are still viable questions out there, before God, that he needs to [honestly] answer; regardless if he does, tries to avoid them, or if he wants to; they still exist to be answered.

Using a number system, I will begin:

1 -  Is the SSPX still perusing an arraignment for a practical deal with Rome?

2 -  Is there anything in the works at present, in spite of the new Pope's "modernism" that Bishop Fellay mentioned?

3 -  If so, is the outline of the 2012 General Chapter still in effect to facilitate a deal with Rome?

4 -  If not, then does the General Chapter reconvene to make another outline for the SSPX?

5 -  The District Superior from Canada, Father Jürgen Wegner, had mentioned that the SSPX had begun a new image through a branding company from Holland, is that true?  If so, has that been completed yet?  And, what is the new image that Bishop Fellay is looking for?


Dear Machabees,

Fr. Rostand probably does more work in his average day than you or I in his average week, so let me help save Father's valuable time by giving you the honest answers to your honest questions, following your number system:

1 - No
2 - Assuming that there is some difference between 2 and 1, No
3 - Yes
4 - N/A
5 - You can see the rebranding in the publications of the SSPX in the U.S. and Canada. They all have consistent logos, layouts, typefaces, etc.  There are no plans to roll out the rebranding worldwide.  It involves no "image" issue in the political or marketing sense.

Anything else I can help you with?

Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on December 06, 2013, 01:23:38 PM
I'm going.  Assuming they let me in the door, I'll try to get a summary of the event for everyone.  I have a feeling, however, that it will be just more neo-sspx bs  from the hardworking Fr. R. :rolleyes:
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: John Grace on December 06, 2013, 01:37:58 PM
Quote from: hollingsworth
I'm going.  Assuming they let me in the door, I'll try to get a summary of the event for everyone.  I have a feeling, however, that it will be just more neo-sspx bs  from the hardworking Fr. R. :rolleyes:


There are better ways to spend an evening.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: John Grace on December 06, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
Quote from: TheRecusant
It will be to imitate his master, and show off his new found Traditionalist credentials. Bishop Fellay broke the 6-month silence on Francis, so now we can expect all his understudies to do the same. Only perhaps not quite as articulately nor as convincingly. Fr. Rostand is a "poor man's Fellay". He does his best, but it's never quite the real thing...


Yes, I expect it will be that Bishop Fellay is Traditional again. All is ok.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 06, 2013, 01:43:02 PM
.

The devil has a lot of work that he needs to have done.  I'm sure he appreciates all the help.  Of course, the low-level grunge 'work' like that of John Anthony (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=28564&min=10#p2) might get a footnote in the back pages.  The main goal is ever in mind:  corrupt the Church.  And great strides have been accomplished in that direction.  Oh, and there will be a second collection, for the new 'seminary'.................

Glad to be of service.


.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 06, 2013, 01:54:45 PM
.

Post (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=28564&min=10#p1)
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: J.Paul
It will be a waste of time, good money after bad.
The good Father is not going to be there to have discussions. He will be there to repeat Menzingen's version and justifications for events and to defend the King and the King's authority.
It matters not if he is verbally bested or made to look the fool by his own accord, in the end, nothing will change.


I agree that it's a waste of time, however, ... someone could start laughing at what he says.




........ (I'll save you the inconvenience of waiting) ................... :jester:


.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 06, 2013, 02:11:32 PM
Quote from: John Grace
Quote from: TheRecusant
It will be to imitate his master, and show off his new found Traditionalist credentials. Bishop Fellay broke the 6-month silence on Francis, so now we can expect all his understudies to do the same. Only perhaps not quite as articulately nor as convincingly. Fr. Rostand is a "poor man's Fellay". He does his best, but it's never quite the real thing...


Yes, I expect it will be that Bishop Fellay is Traditional again. All is ok.


How about some posters for the front lawn?  



Bishop Fellay is A-O-K!


EVERYTHING'S BACK
TO NORMAL!!


WHEW!

(That was a close one!)
(+F had me worried --
for a minute or two!)


AT EASE MEN!
THE GREAT ONE IS
TRADITIONAL AGAIN!!  


You can go home now -- you've
already heard Fr. Rostand's speech.



..........And DON'T FORGET:
The Planned Giving Campaign!  
-- applications are in the vestibule!..........





.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on December 06, 2013, 03:27:14 PM
Quote from: John Anthony
Quote from: Machabees
Yes, I believe Fr. Rostand's tone will be on those type of lines as well.

With that said, I thought perhaps we can take the opportunity to draw up some honest questions to ask him.  Even if he keeps up on Cathinfo, I am sure that he does, and reads these honest questions being posed from people within his District, it may also guide his conscience in the right direction to see that there are still viable questions out there, before God, that he needs to [honestly] answer; regardless if he does, tries to avoid them, or if he wants to; they still exist to be answered.

Using a number system, I will begin:

1 -  Is the SSPX still perusing an arraignment for a practical deal with Rome?

2 -  Is there anything in the works at present, in spite of the new Pope's "modernism" that Bishop Fellay mentioned?

3 -  If so, is the outline of the 2012 General Chapter still in effect to facilitate a deal with Rome?

4 -  If not, then does the General Chapter reconvene to make another outline for the SSPX?

5 -  The District Superior from Canada, Father Jürgen Wegner, had mentioned that the SSPX had begun a new image through a branding company from Holland, is that true?  If so, has that been completed yet?  And, what is the new image that Bishop Fellay is looking for?


Dear Machabees,

Fr. Rostand probably does more work in his average day than you or I in his average week, so let me help save Father's valuable time by giving you the honest answers to your honest questions, following your number system:

1 - No
2 - Assuming that there is some difference between 2 and 1, No
3 - Yes
4 - N/A
5 - You can see the rebranding in the publications of the SSPX in the U.S. and Canada. They all have consistent logos, layouts, typefaces, etc.  There are no plans to roll out the rebranding worldwide.  It involves no "image" issue in the political or marketing sense.

Anything else I can help you with?


No thank you John Anthony, I prefer to hear it from the authorities of the SSPX; rather than be side lined from their lay press secretaries.

God bless.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on December 06, 2013, 05:36:28 PM
wessex:
Quote
Keeping the flock docile and generous will be Fr. R's main mission. His script will predictably emphasise how well they are being served, the costs of the operation (on doomed projects or otherwise), having trust in the leader and avoiding schism (meaning those nasty independents, excluding himself, of course). Bergoglio bashing, I am not so sure. Father is a bureaucrat, so do not expect much there.


Yes, I'm sure the event will be carefully scripted.  There will probably be little if any Q & A.  And I would imagine that most questions will have to be submitted in writing beforehand.   That's normally the way potentially unpleasant incidents can be avoided.  They will undoubtedly leave nothing to chance.  The party line will be clearly stated once again in broken Frenchlish,  and any would-be detractors will be dealt with summarily.  I could only wish that neo-sspxism might breed a less cynical attitude.  But unfortunately some of us have been conditioned by the environment which they created.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: JPaul on December 06, 2013, 10:30:29 PM
Quote from: hollingsworth
wessex:
Quote
Keeping the flock docile and generous will be Fr. R's main mission. His script will predictably emphasise how well they are being served, the costs of the operation (on doomed projects or otherwise), having trust in the leader and avoiding schism (meaning those nasty independents, excluding himself, of course). Bergoglio bashing, I am not so sure. Father is a bureaucrat, so do not expect much there.


Yes, I'm sure the event will be carefully scripted.  There will probably be little if any Q & A.  And I would imagine that most questions will have to be submitted in writing beforehand.   That's normally the way potentially unpleasant incidents can be avoided.  They will undoubtedly leave nothing to chance.  The party line will be clearly stated once again in broken Frenchlish,  and any would-be detractors will be dealt with summarily.  I could only wish that neo-sspxism might breed a less cynical attitude.  But unfortunately some of us have been conditioned by the environment which they created.


I wish you well. Wear a disquise to avoid ejection and drink a large espresso shot to avoid dozing.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: SeanJohnson on December 07, 2013, 07:46:39 AM
Quote from: John Anthony
Quote from: Machabees
Yes, I believe Fr. Rostand's tone will be on those type of lines as well.

With that said, I thought perhaps we can take the opportunity to draw up some honest questions to ask him.  Even if he keeps up on Cathinfo, I am sure that he does, and reads these honest questions being posed from people within his District, it may also guide his conscience in the right direction to see that there are still viable questions out there, before God, that he needs to [honestly] answer; regardless if he does, tries to avoid them, or if he wants to; they still exist to be answered.

Using a number system, I will begin:

1 -  Is the SSPX still perusing an arraignment for a practical deal with Rome?

2 -  Is there anything in the works at present, in spite of the new Pope's "modernism" that Bishop Fellay mentioned?

3 -  If so, is the outline of the 2012 General Chapter still in effect to facilitate a deal with Rome?

4 -  If not, then does the General Chapter reconvene to make another outline for the SSPX?

5 -  The District Superior from Canada, Father Jürgen Wegner, had mentioned that the SSPX had begun a new image through a branding company from Holland, is that true?  If so, has that been completed yet?  And, what is the new image that Bishop Fellay is looking for?


Dear Machabees,

Fr. Rostand probably does more work in his average day than you or I in his average week, so let me help save Father's valuable time by giving you the honest answers to your honest questions, following your number system:

1 - No
2 - Assuming that there is some difference between 2 and 1, No
3 - Yes
4 - N/A
5 - You can see the rebranding in the publications of the SSPX in the U.S. and Canada. They all have consistent logos, layouts, typefaces, etc.  There are no plans to roll out the rebranding worldwide.  It involves no "image" issue in the political or marketing sense.

Anything else I can help you with?



John-

That is an amazing understatement and misrepresentation, with regard to the acknowledged scope and intent of the banding campaign, per Fr. Wegner!

It seems your metaphysics are: The SSPX must be defended, and it matters not what we say and do toward that end.

The implication being that the SSPX is indefectible, and cannot fail in its mission.

We have always been at war with Eurasia!
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: brianhope on December 07, 2013, 09:50:56 AM
So last night at in the Q&A, one gentleman asked Fr. R. to explain the inconsistency of Bishop Fellay telling us last month that Francis is a "genuine modernist", and then saying in a recent interview that he only meant that Francis' is a modernist in his actions. Father's reply was not too clear and didn't explain the inconsistency to me, but more or less said that the pope can't be understood to be an actual modernist because that would lead to a sedevacantist position. Father also said that Francis has not used the charism of infallibility to pronounce any heresies. So apparently, to say that this pope is not the pope, he would have to attempt to infallibly proclaim a heresy as dogma.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: ihsv on December 07, 2013, 11:01:39 AM
Quote from: brianhope
So last night at in the Q&A, one gentleman asked Fr. R. to explain the inconsistency of Bishop Fellay telling us last month that Francis is a "genuine modernist", and then saying in a recent interview that he only meant that Francis' is a modernist in his actions. Father's reply was not too clear and didn't explain the inconsistency to me, but more or less said that the pope can't be understood to be an actual modernist because that would lead to a sedevacantist position. Father also said that Francis has not used the charism of infallibility to pronounce any heresies. So apparently, to say that this pope is not the pope, he would have to attempt to infallibly proclaim a heresy as dogma.


Wow.  So we can't say he's a modernist, because the conclusion is scary?    And the criteria for being declared a modernist is that one has to use the charism of infallibility to advance a heretical position?  Why is the criteria for being a modernist different for a pope than it is for everyone else?  

Finally, regarding his last point, does this cover an attempt to infallibly define a heretic to be a saint?  Can't wait to see how they deal with the April canonizations.  

 
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on December 07, 2013, 11:22:23 AM
Quote from: brianhope
So last night at in the Q&A, one gentleman asked Fr. R. to explain the inconsistency of Bishop Fellay telling us last month that Francis is a "genuine modernist", and then saying in a recent interview that he only meant that Francis' is a modernist in his actions. Father's reply was not too clear and didn't explain the inconsistency to me, but more or less said that the pope can't be understood to be an actual modernist because that would lead to a sedevacantist position. Father also said that Francis has not used the charism of infallibility to pronounce any heresies. So apparently, to say that this pope is not the pope, he would have to attempt to infallibly proclaim a heresy as dogma.


Wow is right.

What huge implications...  Fr. Rostand statement to defend his "superior" is worse than the position of Bishop Fellay's erratic behavior of contradiction.  
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Incredulous on December 07, 2013, 11:24:44 AM
Quote from: brianhope
So last night at in the Q&A, one gentleman asked Fr. R. to explain the inconsistency of Bishop Fellay telling us last month that Francis is a "genuine modernist", and then saying in a recent interview that he only meant that Francis' is a modernist in his actions. Father's reply was not too clear and didn't explain the inconsistency to me, but more or less said that the pope can't be understood to be an actual modernist because that would lead to a sedevacantist position. Father also said that Francis has not used the charism of infallibility to pronounce any heresies. So apparently, to say that this pope is not the pope, he would have to attempt to infallibly proclaim a heresy as dogma.



So covering for Francis is what the hierarchy of the nSSPX leadership is concerned about?

This focus shows they are in worse trouble than anyone can imagine.

Menzingen is wandering in the dark after losing the graces and light of Our Lord.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Incredulous on December 07, 2013, 11:27:21 AM
Quote from: hollingsworth
We're going to try to gain entry.  It may be a problem, however, since I'm known to the ICC faithful and to Fr. Rostand.  I may not get beyond the door.  I think maybe that "public meeting" will have a definite Menzingen spin put on it.  In any case, if the Dec. 6 meeting is anything like the previous Rostand fiasco there, no more than 15% of the congregation will attend anyway.  



Holly,

You should have tried a disguise to gain entry.

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJAP8VXrmWB0JFCIrNtHGjTk_-ehw5w2-zzU0Gb0wiT-8m_PwxHA)

The nSSPX probably would have mistaken you for being Jєωιѕн and given you a front row seat.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: JPaul on December 07, 2013, 12:03:59 PM
Quote
The nSSPX probably would have mistaken you for being Jєωιѕн

...or an older brother........
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: JPaul on December 07, 2013, 12:06:37 PM
All f them cowards, men who will not even stand by their own words, men who huddle in fear of the truth that they see.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: John Anthony on December 07, 2013, 12:18:25 PM
Quote from: SeanJohnson
Quote from: John Anthony
Quote from: Machabees
Yes, I believe Fr. Rostand's tone will be on those type of lines as well.

With that said, I thought perhaps we can take the opportunity to draw up some honest questions to ask him.  Even if he keeps up on Cathinfo, I am sure that he does, and reads these honest questions being posed from people within his District, it may also guide his conscience in the right direction to see that there are still viable questions out there, before God, that he needs to [honestly] answer; regardless if he does, tries to avoid them, or if he wants to; they still exist to be answered.

Using a number system, I will begin:

1 -  Is the SSPX still perusing an arraignment for a practical deal with Rome?

2 -  Is there anything in the works at present, in spite of the new Pope's "modernism" that Bishop Fellay mentioned?

3 -  If so, is the outline of the 2012 General Chapter still in effect to facilitate a deal with Rome?

4 -  If not, then does the General Chapter reconvene to make another outline for the SSPX?

5 -  The District Superior from Canada, Father Jürgen Wegner, had mentioned that the SSPX had begun a new image through a branding company from Holland, is that true?  If so, has that been completed yet?  And, what is the new image that Bishop Fellay is looking for?


Dear Machabees,

Fr. Rostand probably does more work in his average day than you or I in his average week, so let me help save Father's valuable time by giving you the honest answers to your honest questions, following your number system:

1 - No
2 - Assuming that there is some difference between 2 and 1, No
3 - Yes
4 - N/A
5 - You can see the rebranding in the publications of the SSPX in the U.S. and Canada. They all have consistent logos, layouts, typefaces, etc.  There are no plans to roll out the rebranding worldwide.  It involves no "image" issue in the political or marketing sense.

Anything else I can help you with?



John-

That is an amazing understatement and misrepresentation, with regard to the acknowledged scope and intent of the banding campaign, per Fr. Wegner!

It seems your metaphysics are: The SSPX must be defended, and it matters not what we say and do toward that end.

The implication being that the SSPX is indefectible, and cannot fail in its mission.

We have always been at war with Eurasia!


I've read Fr. Wegner's remarks.

Am I correct in assuming that you do the Resistance usual: take the consultant's advice about accentuating the positive as having been accepted by Fr. Wegner, and then taking the advice as meaning that the Society needs to sell out?

The Resistance, individually and collectively, needs to reflect on the following remarks of Our Lord:

"The lamp of the body is the eye.  If thy eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light.  But if thy eye is evil, then thy whole body will be full of darkness.  Therefore if the light that is in thee is darkness, how great is the darkness itself."

The eye of the Resistance is darkness.  

Its conclusions are the creations of its suspicions.  No sophism is too clumsy, no fabrication too implausible, no denunciation or mockery too puerile, no mote too small to call a beam, no beam too large to call a mote, if the cause of hating Bishop Fellay be served.

Recall also that the "evil eye" is the eye of envy.  As the paterfamilias says to the laborer, is your eye evil because I am good?

And where in the Resistance might we find that evil eye?

As my mother (RIP) used to say when pointing out the obvious: you look and I'll whistle.



Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Domitilla on December 07, 2013, 12:35:10 PM
Sean Johnson stated:  "It seems your metaphysics are:  The SSPX must be defended, and it matters not what we say and do toward that end."

This is a perfect description of JAM's posts. ( His mind is made up.  Don't confuse him with the facts.)    How long, O Lord, how long before we are again freed from them?

Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: John Grace on December 07, 2013, 12:37:41 PM
John Anthony,

You comrade in arms from Ireland. Brady and yourself would find common ground in defence of the "great one". Each District has a "John Anthony"

http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2013/10/15/sspx-reading-francis-through-catholicism/
Quote
Gerard Brady | October 15, 2013 at 10:43 pm
Bishop Fellay has made it clear on previous occasions what he means by evil. The classic definition of evil is “the deprivation of a good which is due”. He pointed out to Cardinal Hoyos (when Hoyos had stated that both he and Pope Benedict thought that the new rite was lacking in various respects) that it was Cardinal Hoyos and Benedict who were admitting that the new rite was evil according to the classical definition. Cardinal Hoyos was unable to reply and castigated his aides for not coming to his assistance. I do believe that the word evil is an emotive one which makes people react and therefore I prefer defective when describing the new rite (although of course it can be much worse)
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: John Grace on December 07, 2013, 01:00:32 PM
Quote from: Domitilla
Sean Johnson stated:  "It seems your metaphysics are:  The SSPX must be defended, and it matters not what we say and do toward that end."

This is a perfect description of JAM's posts. ( His mind is made up.  Don't confuse him with the facts.)    How long, O Lord, how long before we are again freed from them?



Yes, his mind is made up but is ignoring the facts.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: SeanJohnson on December 07, 2013, 01:46:00 PM
Quote from: John Anthony
Quote from: SeanJohnson
Quote from: John Anthony
Quote from: Machabees
Yes, I believe Fr. Rostand's tone will be on those type of lines as well.

With that said, I thought perhaps we can take the opportunity to draw up some honest questions to ask him.  Even if he keeps up on Cathinfo, I am sure that he does, and reads these honest questions being posed from people within his District, it may also guide his conscience in the right direction to see that there are still viable questions out there, before God, that he needs to [honestly] answer; regardless if he does, tries to avoid them, or if he wants to; they still exist to be answered.

Using a number system, I will begin:

1 -  Is the SSPX still perusing an arraignment for a practical deal with Rome?

2 -  Is there anything in the works at present, in spite of the new Pope's "modernism" that Bishop Fellay mentioned?

3 -  If so, is the outline of the 2012 General Chapter still in effect to facilitate a deal with Rome?

4 -  If not, then does the General Chapter reconvene to make another outline for the SSPX?

5 -  The District Superior from Canada, Father Jürgen Wegner, had mentioned that the SSPX had begun a new image through a branding company from Holland, is that true?  If so, has that been completed yet?  And, what is the new image that Bishop Fellay is looking for?


Dear Machabees,

Fr. Rostand probably does more work in his average day than you or I in his average week, so let me help save Father's valuable time by giving you the honest answers to your honest questions, following your number system:

1 - No
2 - Assuming that there is some difference between 2 and 1, No
3 - Yes
4 - N/A
5 - You can see the rebranding in the publications of the SSPX in the U.S. and Canada. They all have consistent logos, layouts, typefaces, etc.  There are no plans to roll out the rebranding worldwide.  It involves no "image" issue in the political or marketing sense.

Anything else I can help you with?



John-

That is an amazing understatement and misrepresentation, with regard to the acknowledged scope and intent of the banding campaign, per Fr. Wegner!

It seems your metaphysics are: The SSPX must be defended, and it matters not what we say and do toward that end.

The implication being that the SSPX is indefectible, and cannot fail in its mission.

We have always been at war with Eurasia!


I've read Fr. Wegner's remarks.

Am I correct in assuming that you do the Resistance usual: take the consultant's advice about accentuating the positive as having been accepted by Fr. Wegner, and then taking the advice as meaning that the Society needs to sell out?

The Resistance, individually and collectively, needs to reflect on the following remarks of Our Lord:

"The lamp of the body is the eye.  If thy eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light.  But if thy eye is evil, then thy whole body will be full of darkness.  Therefore if the light that is in thee is darkness, how great is the darkness itself."

The eye of the Resistance is darkness.  

Its conclusions are the creations of its suspicions.  No sophism is too clumsy, no fabrication too implausible, no denunciation or mockery too puerile, no mote too small to call a beam, no beam too large to call a mote, if the cause of hating Bishop Fellay be served.

Recall also that the "evil eye" is the eye of envy.  As the paterfamilias says to the laborer, is your eye evil because I am good?

And where in the Resistance might we find that evil eye?

As my mother (RIP) used to say when pointing out the obvious: you look and I'll whistle.






Dear John Anthony-

As usual, I find some bits of truth in your posts, but they are always a bit tainted by your refusal to look at things objectively (which is why I say your starting point in assessing any related questions is not, "what is the truth," but rather, "what must I say to defend the SSPX").

Such mindless loyalty is how good men become the partisans of error, and my loyalty has always been only to the truth.

Insofar as the SSPX was a faithful promulgator of that truth, it had my secondary loyalty (i.e., my real loyalty being to the truth whose custodian they were).

If that were also your framework, then you too would see serious problems on both sides.

If you have followed my posts here, you would know that I harbor some of the same concerns about the resistance that you do, primarily:

1) Pretending the AFD is official SSPX policy;

2) Pretending that therefore, the SSPX and FSSP therefore have the same official policy toward Vatican II (i.e., there are no doctrinal errors, but simply bad interpretations);

3) Pretending therefore, that since we cannot attend FSSP Masses because of this, likewise we cannot attend SSPX Masses;

4) Capitalizing on Bishop Fellay's syntactical errors of speech, and trying to construe his words in such a way as to pretend he believes there are two popes, wants to start a schism to depose Francis, restore BXVI, and do it all so he can get a practical accord.

Yet for all this, these concerns seem to be primarily contained within the Fr. Pfeiffer strain of the resistance.

On the side Menzingen, yes, the threat of a practical accord seems to have been averted for the time being (though the General Chapter declaration and 6 conditions seem to want to hold out hope for one in the future).

More concerning is the branding campaign you so grossly understate, and with amazing facility dismiss simply as taking a positive approach, but by a practice of crimethink, stop short of recalling the same branding campaign calls for a cease fire on attacking Vatican II and Rome...according to the same Fr. Wegner.

You seem to be unable to also look through a wider lens, and recognize that the branding campaign coincides with the new seminary formation (e.g., the one your son received, with all the same books and classes, but with sermons and spiritual conferences of quite another stripe); with GREC; with the "3rd way" or "spiritual approach" of Archbishop Di Noia; the incessant sermons on morals, virtues, and spirituality.....but rarely if ever a sermon from the pulpit explaining why the doctrines of Vatican II are dangerous to the faith.

The goal is to move away from doctrine towards higher spirituality, per the request of Rome.

All these things agree with each other, and facilitate each other, but you see none of it.

How is that?

PS: Have you read Fr. Rioult's "The Impossible Reconciliation?"  He explains how this revolution was agreed upon by Bishop Fellay and Rome many years ago, and how it was agreed to "proceed in stages."  Seems they all read Michael Davies' "Cranmer's Godly Order" and learned from Cranmer that, unlike the Anglican revolt, Vatican II failed to convert all the trads because it was too abrupt a change; the capitulation of traditionalism will have to be much more gradual....it may even require a branding campaign to prepare minds over 10-20 years.

PPS: But if you will still maintain this is all a delusional construct, can you explain why Bishop de Galarreta warned Bishop Fellay at the October, 2011 meeting of superiors in Albano, Italy that pursuing a practical accord with Rome would have precisely the results which have come to pass?
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on December 07, 2013, 02:00:11 PM
For some perspective on this.

For Bishop Fellay, who is a Catholic Bishop and a Superior General of the SSPX, who has around him many theologians, advisers, seminary professors, canonists, ecclesiologists, moralists, etc., has stated in his Oct. 2013 conference that “[Pope] Francis is genuine modernist” is a statement with a lot of weight behind it.

Simply, if that is true for him and his nsspx to say this against the Pope himself, his superior, then [Pope] Francis is for him a pronounced (material) heretic.  In other words, as modernism is a heresy, declaring with the capacity of Bishop Fellay that Francis is a GENUINE modernist, in definition of the usage of genuine, is a confirmed and concluding statement from his backing that the mind and actions of Francis are united in modernist heresy.  Consequences follow from this…into a sedevacantist position.

As the whole world reacted to this, including Rome itself, and now for Bishop Fellay to parse and contradict his weighty statement, is either not genuine in himself, is a person with his position speaking undisciplined off the cuff, does not know what a modernist is from his previous training and forming of other priests, or is a political contradictionist to [please] whatever audience is listening to him regardless of what is said before God, or lack of conscience of God.  Either or, he needs to, as with the other superiors, to consider if he is capable to run the functions as a Superior General with such inept imprudence.

Further, for Bishop Fellay to try to side track with a determined will his previous weighted statement, has now made another error to say that "I didn't mean to say that the Pope is a Modernist in theology, but in action".  This new statement of Bishop Fellay is more than immature for a trained priest to say; for  Bishop Fellay had politically tried to suit his need to separate Francis’s mind from the act; the intention from the execution; the person from his actions; the prime mover from the moved; the artist from his creation.

Never the less, the damage control wing of the nsspx is always on high alert following behind him every time he says something in public; hence Fr. Rostand’s recent conference in Post Falls.  An unfortunate part of this new nsspx crisis in wavering with conciliar Rome, is that they now think and act similarly with contradictions.

“Let your speech be Si, Si…No, No” says our Lord.  When a said “truth” does not represent the real Truth, it is error.

With damage control, in Fr. Rostand’s new coverage to falsify a defense for his superior (remember for them it is now stated that “unity” is over the faith), that Fr. Rostand has gone even deeper into an erroneous theological and ecclesiastical position.

The main one for them is in the fact that Fr. Rostand and Bishop Fellay do acknowledge that Bishop Fellay’s official voice stating what he did, that: “Francis is a genuine modernist”, would put them into a sedevacantist position; which Fr. Rostand admitted to in his conference, and tried to maneuver around.

In addition, with what ihsv had pointed out, for them to say that Francis is a modernist would be for them a scary conclusion.  As also, in trying to make Bishop Fellay’s defense, Fr. Rostand had defined new terms and criteria to imply that declaring one a modernists, one has to use the charism of infallibility to advance a heretical position.  As ihsv said, “Why is the criteria for being a modernist different for a pope than it is for everyone else?”  So true.  More riddles for the nsspx to answer.

In this new move, these two superiors have chosen to act political in its discourse rather than missionary; which follows in their motives, that trickery and treachery of mind is a preferred practice over humility and abnegation.   Whereby, the example of virtue and obedience to the faith is a subjective practice.

These, as with many other repercussions of both Bishop Fellay and Fr. Rostand’s ill-conceived plan to deceive the world, is sickening.

God have Mercy on them…
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: SeanJohnson on December 07, 2013, 02:18:23 PM
It is not true that calling Francis a genuine modernist necessitates assenting to sedevacantism.

No credible theologian asserts that material heretics lose membership in the Church.

Therefore, Bishop Fellay need not have backtracked from his words, contrary to the assertion of Machabees and Fr. Cekada.

Bishop Williamson and the SSPX have rightly been teaching that the V2 and post-V2 popes are modernists for 40 years, and nobody ever thought making such an admission necessitated sedevacantism.

More likely, sedvacantists want to paint this picture, as they have tried to for decades, and to do it, much as they like to refer to the manuals, they conveniently omit the distinction between material and formal heretics, or even between covert material and public material heretics.

Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: John Grace on December 07, 2013, 02:32:51 PM
Quote
God have Mercy on them…


Indeed. I stood outside an SSPX chapel a few weeks ago.A farewell. I was passing and paused to pray outside. Continue to pray for those who assist at the SSPX.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: John Grace on December 07, 2013, 04:04:42 PM
From earlier this year.

A Letter of Entreaty
to
Fr. Morgan and the Clergy of the British District

Quote
The leadership of the SSPX are wilfully pursuing a new direction and a new agenda, remaking the Society in their own image with reckless disregard for the souls which Divine Providence has placed in their care. Every month, sometimes it seems every week, some new, fresh piece of evidence emerges of the liberalism at the top which is being forced downwards upon the lower members and faithful of the Society. We have heard not one single convincing explanation, nothing to put our minds at rest, although it is not uncommon for Menzingen or DICI to issue “clarifications” or for Bishop Fellay to claim that his words have been misrepresented in some way.

What concerns us especially is that we see what amounts to a new direction officially enshrined in the SSPX.


An extract but very clear the SSPX has changed.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: John Grace on December 07, 2013, 04:09:51 PM
The SSPX are playing with the faith. This is very serious.


http://www.therecusant.com/dont-play-with-the-faith
“ONE DOES NOT PLAY WITH THE FAITH!”
- Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre


Bishop Williamson: "Fellay is starting to weasel around"
http://youtu.be/ZT03TZeqkiY
Quote
Bishop Richard Williamson accuses the SSPX Superior General of "weaselling around" on religious liberty. From a June address to English supporters in anticipation of 2012's General Chapter.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on December 07, 2013, 04:24:15 PM
Quote from: SeanJohnson
It is not true that calling Francis a genuine modernist necessitates assenting to sedevacantism.

No credible theologian asserts that material heretics lose membership in the Church.

Therefore, Bishop Fellay need not have backtracked from his words, contrary to the assertion of Machabees and Fr. Cekada.

Bishop Williamson and the SSPX have rightly been teaching that the V2 and post-V2 popes are modernists for 40 years, and nobody ever thought making such an admission necessitated sedevacantism.

More likely, sedvacantists want to paint this picture, as they have tried to for decades, and to do it, much as they like to refer to the manuals, they conveniently omit the distinction between material and formal heretics, or even between covert material and public material heretics.


SeanJohnson,

You are always quick to read and block things in; slow down.  Your conclusions, as usual, are elastic in extremes and rigid with anxiety to "feel" you are always right.

Read what is written instead of what you would like things to say.

There is a context as Fr. Rostand admitted to, as reported in his conference.

(...) Consequences follow from this…into a sedevacantist position.

Aside that it could have been a Providential act of God to help restore His Church from these modernist leaches, that for Bishop Fellay and the sspx in standing up to prove that statement of a "genuine modernist", of Francis in the person of Archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio throughout his life (pre-election to the Papacy and post election), they would have to make a Doctrinal and Ecclesiastical thesis that there is a union of mind and act, hence the word "genuine"; proving material heresy.  Which would then transfer over (...) to the Church's ecclesiastical judgment for formal heresy.  So on and so on...

If the Church's ecclesiastical Judgement shows that there is a Formal judgement of heresy prior to the election, then there is a sedevacantist condition; which obliges that the other recent Popes would need to be looked at.  At some point in future history, the Holiness of the Church will be reformed, as promised by the Mother of God herself; these processes will in fact take place at some point in time to restore the glory of the Church.

Certainly that would open up a whole can of worms that the sspx does not want to touch; cowardly in fact.  Yet, the whole of the Catholic world would see the lineated Church's process and body of the judgment that would, I am sure, spring board into a widespread canonical movement that could begin to restore the Church.

It is a matter of Faith; not of personal choice.

In God's Honor...
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 07, 2013, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: SeanJohnson

Dear John Anthony-

As usual, ... I say your starting point in assessing any related questions is not, "what is the truth," but rather, "what must I say to defend the SSPX?"

Such mindless loyalty is how good men become the partisans of error, and my loyalty has always been only to the truth.

Insofar as the SSPX was a faithful promulgator of that truth, it had my secondary loyalty (i.e., my real loyalty being to the truth whose custodian they were).



But the SSPX doesn't promulgate anything.   It requires jurisdiction to promulgate things, and they have no jurisdiction.


Quote
Yet for all this, these concerns seem to be primarily contained within the Fr. Pfeiffer strain of the resistance.
...

How is that?

PS: Have you read Fr. Rioult's "The Impossible Reconciliation?"


Getting John Anthony Malleus to read anything by Fr. Rioult (who ought to be made a bishop, BTW) is like getting ictrerus to watch a video that exposed the lies of his demigods Charlie.


Quote
He explains how this revolution was agreed upon by Bishop Fellay and Rome many years ago, and how it was agreed to "proceed in stages."  Seems they all read Michael Davies' "Cranmer's Godly Order" and learned from Cranmer that, unlike the Anglican revolt, Vatican II failed to convert all the trads because it was too abrupt a change; the capitulation of traditionalism will have to be much more gradual....it may even require a branding campaign to prepare minds over 10-20 years.



Like I said, Fr. Rioult should be consecrated bishop.  And good for you, SeanJohnson for recognizing his excellency of perception!


Quote
PPS: But if you will still maintain this is all a delusional construct, can you explain why Bishop de Galarreta warned Bishop Fellay at the October, 2011 meeting of superiors in Albano, Italy that pursuing a practical accord with Rome would have precisely the results which have come to pass?



And that's not too shabby, either.  If only Bishop de Galarreta could see as clearly today as he did just two years ago!!


.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on December 07, 2013, 09:01:09 PM
For those who are in the Post Falls area, what was Fr. Rostand's main substance in his conference.  What was his direction?

What other questions and responding answers ensued?
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Incredulous on December 07, 2013, 11:00:38 PM
FYI, Father Rostand will be in N. California, staying at the St. Aloysius Retreat Center this coming week.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: John Grace on December 08, 2013, 07:05:36 AM
To return to Bishop Fellay in Dublin.


LicenseCopyright All rights reserved by Thomas TV1


I found the comment from Thomas Jennings interesting.

Quote
Thomas TV1 7 months ago | reply
Left to right; Fr. Régis Babinet, Fr. Paul Morgan (District Superior), Bishop Fellay, Fr. Paul Biérer and Very Rev. Ramon Anglés.
Bishop Fellay relaxing with friends just before his lecture referring to the recent negotiations with Rome, and the false allegations made against him.


Firstly, I was of the understanding the SSPX were in discussions with Rome.
Secondly, what are these "false allegations made against" Bishop Fellay? Have allegations been made against him? This is news to me.



Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on December 08, 2013, 03:10:02 PM
Quote
brianhope said:
So last night at in the Q&A, one gentleman asked Fr. R. to explain the inconsistency of Bishop Fellay telling us last month that Francis is a "genuine modernist", and then saying in a recent interview that he only meant that Francis' is a modernist in his actions. Father's reply was not too clear and didn't explain the inconsistency to me, but more or less said that the pope can't be understood to be an actual modernist because that would lead to a sedevacantist position. Father also said that Francis has not used the charism of infallibility to pronounce any heresies. So apparently, to say that this pope is not the pope, he would have to attempt to infallibly proclaim a heresy as dogma.  


Brian Hope, I do not know you personally, undless of course, you're using a pseudonym.  However, I remember only "one gentleman" who raised the question you cite at the Fr. R. meeting in Post Falls.  That "gentleman" was me, or moi, as you prefer.  Please give me a call.  My name is in the Post Falls phone book.  I have revealed it several times online in the past.  But if I do so again, some forum members may feel that I'm trying to attract too much attention to myself, and will take umbrage.    
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on December 08, 2013, 03:11:46 PM
Quote
brianhope said:
So last night at in the Q&A, one gentleman asked Fr. R. to explain the inconsistency of Bishop Fellay telling us last month that Francis is a "genuine modernist", and then saying in a recent interview that he only meant that Francis' is a modernist in his actions. Father's reply was not too clear and didn't explain the inconsistency to me, but more or less said that the pope can't be understood to be an actual modernist because that would lead to a sedevacantist position. Father also said that Francis has not used the charism of infallibility to pronounce any heresies. So apparently, to say that this pope is not the pope, he would have to attempt to infallibly proclaim a heresy as dogma.  


Brian Hope, I do not know you personally, undless of course, you're using a pseudonym.  However, I remember only "one gentleman" who raised the question you cite at the Fr. R. meeting in Post Falls.  That "gentleman" was me, or moi, as you prefer.  Please give me a call.  My name is in the Post Falls phone book.  I have revealed it several times online in the past.  But if I do so again, some forum members may feel that I'm trying to attract too much attention to myself, and will take umbrage.    
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: JPaul on December 08, 2013, 05:36:57 PM
Quote
So apparently, to say that this pope is not the pope, he would have to attempt to infallibly proclaim a heresy as dogma.  


Is this not the same legalist argument used to defend the Council's heresy and apostasy?   It matters not to those who have used it that the Council and the Conciliar popes teach, speak and write heresy, as long as the don't use a dogmatic formula to do so.

All of the false religions never use such a means to proclaim their errors and yet we have no problem calling them heretics.

Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: TKGS on December 08, 2013, 07:47:44 PM
Quote from: J.Paul
Quote
So apparently, to say that this pope is not the pope, he would have to attempt to infallibly proclaim a heresy as dogma.  


Is this not the same legalist argument used to defend the Council's heresy and apostasy?   It matters not to those who have used it that the Council and the Conciliar popes teach, speak and write heresy, as long as the don't use a dogmatic formula to do so.

All of the false religions never use such a means to proclaim their errors and yet we have no problem calling them heretics.



I think you are absolutely correct.  Astute observation.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on December 08, 2013, 09:10:55 PM
Quote from: hollingsworth
I'm going.  Assuming they let me in the door, I'll try to get a summary of the event for everyone.  I have a feeling, however, that it will be just more neo-sspx bs  from the hardworking Fr. R. :rolleyes:


hollingsworth,

As you had gone to Fr. Rostand's conference, do you have a summary of the event?

What was Fr. Rostand's main substance in his conference. What was his direction?

What other questions and responding answers ensued?

Thanks.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on December 09, 2013, 12:24:10 PM
Machabees,
The Rostand conference was, on balance, pretty subdued.  150 or so folks were present at the meeting.  They were the true believers.   The other 1400 or so faithful from ICC stayed home.  
But no one was snarly and hostile towards me as some were  the last time Father visited.  Fr. Rostand even greeted me warmly and publicly across the room as I strode in late to the event.  Father was playing ‘good cop’ this time, vs. the ‘bad cop’ role he played on his previous visit.  He did not accuse or berate me or anyone else that I can remember.
Father recognized that with the ascension of Francis, the “game (had) changed.”  Now the Society is forced to help with the “restoration” using different tactics, I guess.  That’s what I heard him saying anyway.  The Society just has to continue moving forward as it can, as it did under the direction of the Archbishop in earlier years.
“We think it can not get worse,” said Fr. Rostand, “but it does.”  So what do we do.  We just plod ahead as we can.  That seemed to be the basic message Rostand brought, in a nutshell.
Francis forces Sedevacantism back on the table, says Father.  We have to deal with that position now, as it is liable to gather more momentum with a Francis in the Chair.  But, he assures the people, SSPX will not fall into SVism. Do we have a real pope in Francis, Rostand asks rhetorically?  Well, we’ll have to see. But, he adds, SVism, though it may be a “temptation,” it is not a “solution.”  
As for modernism, and the pope being a modernist:  That presents a problem for Fr. R and the Society.  Because once you call him a “modernist,” you are as much as saying that he is not the pope, and with such an admission, you are by default dumped into the SV camp.
I tried to get Father to admit publicly that Francis is a modernist.  But he wouldn’t bite. “He’s the pope,” was all that Father was willing to state for the record.
We all of course have Fellay’s October 13 “genuine modernist” remark burned deeply into our memory banks.  Then we recall that only a month later, in a November 12, 2013 interview, he made a clumsy attempt to correct this now famous earlier remark.
“I think that it was not understood by everybody,” said the SG.  But maybe, for the very reason that it was understood by everybody, Fr. Rostand decided to show up in Post Falls, and probably other sspx centers, as well, in order to correct our earlier perceptions.
Then of course, Fellay goes into his patented bs mode and out comes:
Perhaps I should have said  (that Francis is) a modernist in his actions.”That’s the Fellay we all recognize and deplore.  That is the Fellay who totally discredits his holy profession.
Then Fellay drops this astonishing oxymoron on us:
“Once again, he (Francis) is not a modernist in the absolute, theoretical sense.”That ejaculation needs to be done in needlepoint and hung on the wall.  Then every time we get a little downcast and gloomy, we simply look at that ridiculous utterance and have a good laugh.  Laughing can be therapeutic.

 
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: B from A on December 09, 2013, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: hollingsworth
Then Fellay drops this astonishing oxymoron on us:
“Once again, he (Francis) is not a modernist in the absolute, theoretical sense.”  That ejaculation needs to be done in needlepoint and hung on the wall.  Then every time we get a little downcast and gloomy, we simply look at that ridiculous utterance and have a good laugh.  Laughing can be therapeutic.


 :laugh1:
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: brianhope on December 09, 2013, 01:23:39 PM
Quote from: hollingsworth
Quote
brianhope said:
So last night at in the Q&A, one gentleman asked Fr. R. to explain the inconsistency of Bishop Fellay telling us last month that Francis is a "genuine modernist", and then saying in a recent interview that he only meant that Francis' is a modernist in his actions. Father's reply was not too clear and didn't explain the inconsistency to me, but more or less said that the pope can't be understood to be an actual modernist because that would lead to a sedevacantist position. Father also said that Francis has not used the charism of infallibility to pronounce any heresies. So apparently, to say that this pope is not the pope, he would have to attempt to infallibly proclaim a heresy as dogma.  


Brian Hope, I do not know you personally, undless of course, you're using a pseudonym.  However, I remember only "one gentleman" who raised the question you cite at the Fr. R. meeting in Post Falls.  That "gentleman" was me, or moi, as you prefer.  Please give me a call.  My name is in the Post Falls phone book.  I have revealed it several times online in the past.  But if I do so again, some forum members may feel that I'm trying to attract too much attention to myself, and will take umbrage.    


Hollingsworth,

Yes, Brian Hope is a pseudonym, but you know me. Hint: I'm one of your Belloc Club bretheren.  :wink:
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on December 09, 2013, 02:18:19 PM
 Brian Hope:
Quote
Hollingsworth,

Yes, Brian Hope is a pseudonym, but you know me. Hint: I'm one of your Belloc Club bretheren


Well, who'da thought?  I would have to imagine that you are currently connected with the sspx in such a way that it would hurt your personal interests to reveal your name.  But believe me "Brian," I will never reveal your true identity if you instruct me not to.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Incredulous on December 09, 2013, 02:34:16 PM
Nice report Holly.

So we see the nSSPX holy religious will focus their energies over the next year explaining Francis.

I predict they will all become prematurely grey haired in the effort.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: SeanJohnson on December 09, 2013, 02:53:44 PM
Quote from: hollingsworth
Machabees,
The Rostand conference was, on balance, pretty subdued.  150 or so folks were present at the meeting.  They were the true believers.   The other 1400 or so faithful from ICC stayed home.  
But no one was snarly and hostile towards me as some were  the last time Father visited.  Fr. Rostand even greeted me warmly and publicly across the room as I strode in late to the event.  Father was playing ‘good cop’ this time, vs. the ‘bad cop’ role he played on his previous visit.  He did not accuse or berate me or anyone else that I can remember.
Father recognized that with the ascension of Francis, the “game (had) changed.”  Now the Society is forced to help with the “restoration” using different tactics, I guess.  That’s what I heard him saying anyway.  The Society just has to continue moving forward as it can, as it did under the direction of the Archbishop in earlier years.
“We think it can not get worse,” said Fr. Rostand, “but it does.”  So what do we do.  We just plod ahead as we can.  That seemed to be the basic message Rostand brought, in a nutshell.
Francis forces Sedevacantism back on the table, says Father.  We have to deal with that position now, as it is liable to gather more momentum with a Francis in the Chair.  But, he assures the people, SSPX will not fall into SVism. Do we have a real pope in Francis, Rostand asks rhetorically?  Well, we’ll have to see. But, he adds, SVism, though it may be a “temptation,” it is not a “solution.”  
As for modernism, and the pope being a modernist:  That presents a problem for Fr. R and the Society.  Because once you call him a “modernist,” you are as much as saying that he is not the pope, and with such an admission, you are by default dumped into the SV camp.
I tried to get Father to admit publicly that Francis is a modernist.  But he wouldn’t bite. “He’s the pope,” was all that Father was willing to state for the record.
We all of course have Fellay’s October 13 “genuine modernist” remark burned deeply into our memory banks.  Then we recall that only a month later, in a November 12, 2013 interview, he made a clumsy attempt to correct this now famous earlier remark.
“I think that it was not understood by everybody,” said the SG.  But maybe, for the very reason that it was understood by everybody, Fr. Rostand decided to show up in Post Falls, and probably other sspx centers, as well, in order to correct our earlier perceptions.
Then of course, Fellay goes into his patented bs mode and out comes:
Perhaps I should have said  (that Francis is) a modernist in his actions.”That’s the Fellay we all recognize and deplore.  That is the Fellay who totally discredits his holy profession.
Then Fellay drops this astonishing oxymoron on us:
“Once again, he (Francis) is not a modernist in the absolute, theoretical sense.”That ejaculation needs to be done in needlepoint and hung on the wall.  Then every time we get a little downcast and gloomy, we simply look at that ridiculous utterance and have a good laugh.  Laughing can be therapeutic.

 


Apparently (presuming this is accurate information of Fr. Rostand's comments), he has not understood the SSPX/Bishop Williamson's/Catholic Church's distinction between material heresy and formal heresy.

That distinction can be found in every pre-V2 manual of ecclesiology, and in the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Francis is a modernist.

And he is the Pope.

And there is no tension/conflict between the two statements.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on December 09, 2013, 03:00:24 PM
SJ:
Quote
Francis is a modernist.

And he is the Pope.

And there is no tension/conflict between the two statements


I've never thought there was either.  For some reason now, however, it appears that sspx can't hang the "modernist" tag on Francis for fear that by extension it will mean that he is not the pope.  
But didn't sspx call his predecessors modernists?  Seems to me they did.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: B from A on December 09, 2013, 04:59:48 PM
Quote from: hollingsworth
SJ:
Quote
Francis is a modernist.

And he is the Pope.

And there is no tension/conflict between the two statements


I've never thought there was either.  For some reason now, however, it appears that sspx can't hang the "modernist" tag on Francis for fear that by extension it will mean that he is not the pope.  
But didn't sspx call his predecessors modernists?  Seems to me they did.


Yes, I wonder how they reconcile this?:

Quote
Q: What do you think would be Archbishop Lefebvre’s assessment of the crisis as things stand in 2008?

Tissier de Mallerais: He would denounce not only liberalism — that was the case with Paul VI — but modernism, which is the case of Benedict XVI: a true modernist with the whole theory of up-to-date modernism!  It is so serious that I cannot express my horror.  
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Nickolas on December 09, 2013, 08:53:49 PM
Fr. Rostand, well I guess you and your lieutenants have been monitoring Cathinfo to see how your "performance" played out.  What a horror, for it is not how your performance was received, but what the truth is, which will never change.  Theatrics, another Rosary crusade, and emphasis on the Mass cannot change the summer of 2012 when the curtain was pulled back.  

The theater curtain has been closed for now, but the real purpose of the Society lies behind it, simmering and waiting to be revealed when the time is right to do so.  Will these docuмents be rolled out at a later time when minds blur and world troubles perhaps take on more current thoughts?   The Doctrinal Declaration and the infamous 6 Conditions lie still out there, never retracted, never withdrawn.  We are, however, to believe that all is well and we are ready to do battle with the enemy to preserve the Mass of All Time, all the while the Society holding the NO mass is legitimate.  Hey, you even treat Hollingsworth as if he were a welcome friend and guest.  Oh, but we cannot call the Pope a modernist, who strolls into a Rome cathedral after the World Youth Day with a beach ball and smacks it down on the alter, as it were a thing to worship.  This is not modernism.  Must not discuss this any of the the numerous statements that brand this Pope as a modernist.  So if he is not a modernist, if he is not a liberal, just what is Francis?  Is he misguided, delusional, a personality in total error, just what is this man?  Yes, he holds the office of Pope, but what in horror has the Church done to bring in this man and what caused it ?  In the fear of possibly being excommunicated by a Pope who plays with beach balls in a cathedral, is the Society so afraid to speak truth?

Why does it need to be this way?  Well there are bills to pay aren't there. Your theater performance falls at the time when Fr. le Roux does the opposite, calling out the Resistance as so called subversives and laity who support the Resistance priests as puppets.  So Society leadership fights on with two fronts.  

Enough of the negative. If the Society wants to live on, its leadership must first fall on the sword and admit they were totally wrong, then resign and allow others to take their place who will follow the direction of Archbishop Lefebvre for perhaps another 40 years, maybe much longer, beyond the life spans of many supporting the Society today. Lastly, it must invite the return of all priests forced to leave and one Bishop, who stood up to the mistaken leadership and were unjustly punished and shamed for it.  These fine men have found some means of support since then, but what of their medical support, priestly support, and bare necessities for their so-called disloyalty.  Were it not for them, their prayers, and penances, the Society may very well be dead by now, absorbed into Rome, useless to Tradition. Unless they do return and the reign of forgiveness prevails, the work of the Society is, in my opinion, dead and the evil of pride will have reigned.  
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: bowler on December 11, 2013, 08:25:34 AM
Comfort priests, safe employment, make no waves, go along to get along priests. Only one step left, become the like Campos, FSSP., ICK etc.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on December 11, 2013, 06:44:35 PM
hollingsworth,

Thanks for the summary.  You also had mentioned the particular question you had asked Fr. Rostand, what were the other questions that were asked of him and what was Father's responses to them?
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on December 11, 2013, 11:05:29 PM
Machabees, as I wrote earlier, the talk was pretty subdued.  The questions from the audience were few, and the ones that were asked have all but abandoned my memory.  Suffice to say, the people in attendance were apparently not really too exercised by recent events; and if they were, they did not vocalize their concerns very strongly.  One man did wonder aloud to Father whether we had not come to the end, that the situation now was desperate,  so serious, in fact, that some sort of countering action seemed to be called for.  Fr. R. merely told him that the Society would be going on as it always had.  No changes in direction were contemplated.  No new strategies were going to be implemented.  It was going to be business as usual.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: JPaul on December 12, 2013, 08:11:52 AM
Hollingsworth,
Quote
It was going to be business as usual.

Now there is a loaded phrase.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on January 04, 2014, 10:09:08 AM
More communistic tactics of Fr. Rostand...

At this Post Falls conference of Fr Rostand, I was just given to know that not only did Fr. Rostand state right in the beginning that no one is allowed to tape record or video record his [Catholic] talk, that there was from his organizers two distinct video recorders that were used: one that pointed on himself and one that pointed on the crowd.

???

Is it a tool to control, intimidate, and find out who's who asking the challenging questions?  Why the tactics?

Why shoe box a "Catholic" conference on the life of the Church?  Why the hush up on what he says?  Is it demographic specific?  Did the Apostles control the spreading of the Faith with such tactics?  Is the Faith only selective to those Fr. Rostand wants to hear?  Is he afraid that his words will be used against him?  If it is from God that he wants us to believe, what would he be afraid of?  Is he afraid of being a martyr?  Or, it is from man which he seeks to manipulate?  Where is the honesty and transparency?  Or, he hasn't the intention to have such?

Another sic display of an abuse of authority?  Or does he need to send it to the secular branding company for their approval?
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on January 04, 2014, 01:06:07 PM
Machabees:
Quote
At this Post Falls conference of Fr Rostand, I was just given to know that not only did Fr. Rostand state right in the beginning that no one is allowed to tape record or video record his [Catholic] talk, that there was from his organizers two distinct video recorders that were used: one that pointed on himself and one that pointed on the crowd.


I wasn't present in the beginning, so I don't know what ground rules were laid by Fr. R.  However, I don't recall any video recorder pointed at the audience.  There may have been, but I didn't see it.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: Machabees on January 04, 2014, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: hollingsworth
Machabees:
Quote
At this Post Falls conference of Fr Rostand, I was just given to know that not only did Fr. Rostand state right in the beginning that no one is allowed to tape record or video record his [Catholic] talk, that there was from his organizers two distinct video recorders that were used: one that pointed on himself and one that pointed on the crowd.


I wasn't present in the beginning, so I don't know what ground rules were laid by Fr. R.  However, I don't recall any  pointed at the audience.  There may have been, but I didn't see it.


The video recorder was in front of the person who told me of it.
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on January 04, 2014, 03:46:10 PM
Mach:  
Title: Fr. Rostand in Post Falls
Post by: hollingsworth on January 04, 2014, 03:49:20 PM
Mach:
Quote
The video recorder was in front of the person who told me of it.


I have no doubt that the person is right.  I just wasn't looking for it.  The conference was definitely recorded on video.  There was a video recorder set up in the back in the center in plain view.