Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath  (Read 4886 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 32736
  • Reputation: +29017/-584
  • Gender: Male
Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2021, 12:05:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Good point, Ladislaus.

    Basically when Fr. Robinson (and many other neo-SSPX priests) talk about "danger to the Faith" what they really mean is "danger to the bottom line of the SSPX"

    They don't want the Faithful going ANYWHERE ELSE for Mass. The level of selfishness (and disregard for the good of souls) is off the charts. They would rather get $100 from a parishioner than see ANY OTHER NON-SSPX PRIEST/GROUP get $10,000. Their outlook is completely focused on the good of their organization -- not the overall good of souls, salvation of souls, or anything noble like that.

    They don't treat other groups/priests like we're "all on the same side, working for God, helping souls" which is TRUE. They don't believe in "pay it forward" or "what goes around comes around". Unless it immediately benefits the SSPX financially, they are against it. Sick.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    My accounts (Paypal, Venmo) have been (((shut down))) PM me for how to donate and keep the forum going.

    Offline apollo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 689
    • Reputation: +353/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #31 on: May 24, 2021, 01:02:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • My previous reply to Fr Robinson was sent out by Fr MacDonald to people
    on his email list (it seems), because a reply to my criticism was sent to
    Fr MacDonald. 
    .
    Here is the reply from Fr Laisney (in red text). Perhaps he is the current spokesman
    for the New-SSPX. 
    .
    Vague, ambiguous language.  Just like Vatican II language. Can you get more vague than that?  I don't think so.
     

    Sorry, it is not vague: “indiscriminate conferral of the priesthood and episcopacy” is a very precise sin. A preaching that approves such is also a very precise error (wrong notion of the Church).

    Where is the discussion of Vatican II, which is accepted by the fraternity of St. Peter?  No mention of it.


    you ever read: “cadent a latere tuo mille et decem millia a dextris tuis?” It is not because some fall on the left (“latere tuo”) that one should fall on the opposite side. Fr Garrigou Lagrange, whom Archbishop Lefebvre strongly recommended to us, often said that truth is a summit between two pits.

    Where is the giving up of supplied jurisdiction by the SSPX and acceptance of all of Vatican II by Bp Fellay? No mention of that.


    Bishop Fellay corrected himself and later rejected what he had proposed in April 2012. Supplied jurisdiction is not something good by itself, and ONLY EXISTS if normal jurisdiction cannot be had. Those who reject normal jurisdiction when it can be had do NOT even have supplied jurisdiction!
     
     Exactly what makes the non-SSPX traditionalist venue a grave danger to the faith?  What?  Details please, what?


    In the case of “resistance” venues, the danger of the faith comes from the false notion of the Church, and the “practical sedevacantism”.

    What spirit of these priests is dangerous?  Opposition to SSPX? Opposition to the Counciliar Heretical Rome?   What?  Please explain father Robinson.  Or do you not know?
     No one can live of the Spirit of Christ except in the Body of Christ, which is the Church, not an abstraction, but a concrete Church, where there is a mixture of good and evil (this is a dogma of faith, that there is here below such mixture). To deny that is the heresy of the Cathars. That is indeed dangerous.


    Conclusion.  Whoever has the most approval of the Counciliar Heretical Church is the safest Mass, except for the Novus Ordo Mass. Contradiction? BIG contradiction.


    The safest Mass is the Traditional Mass, with the Catholic Faith unstained by any error, and IN the Church. Remember what St Augustine said: “outside the Church you can have everything [including the Mass] but not salvation.” 
    Extra Ecclesiam catholicam totum potest praeter salutem. Potest habere honorem [=episcopacy], potest habere Sacramenta [including the Mass], potest cantare Alleluia, potest respondere Amen, potest Evangelium tenere, potest in nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus sancti fidem habere et praedicare: sed nusquam nisi in Ecclesia catholica salutem poterit invenire… Si foras patiatur, […] sanguinem fundere potest, coronam accipere non potest.” (sermo ad Caesariensis ecclesiae plebem, n°6). This is the Catholic Faith!
     


    Offline apollo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 689
    • Reputation: +353/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #32 on: May 24, 2021, 01:21:46 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Does anybody else see lies and propaganda in Fr Laisney's comments? 
    .
    After 5 emails which I received from Fr Laisney, I finally realized what the
    new propaganda is, as follows:
    .
    The Resistance priests are "practical sedevacantists" who reject the Pope
    because he is in error, but he is in "the Church" and outside "the Church",
    there is no salvation. 
    .
    That sums it up, however, there is no mention of the term "Counciliar Church"
    and no mention of the heresies in Vatican II.  It's all about the Pope. 
    .
    I bring this up because of the grave danger to the Faith of this propaganda
    coming out the SSPX headquarters (i.e. The Resistance is sedevacantist and
    outside of the Church).
    .
    The continual hammering me with this propaganda over and over in 5 emails
    forced me to block all further emails from him.  It reminds me of the torture
    of Winston in the book 1984.
    .

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #33 on: May 24, 2021, 06:04:32 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Does anybody else see lies and propaganda in Fr Laisney's comments?  
    .
    After 5 emails which I received from Fr Laisney, I finally realized what the
    new propaganda is, as follows:
    .
    The Resistance priests are "practical sedevacantists" who reject the Pope
    because he is in error, but he is in "the Church" and outside "the Church",
    there is no salvation.  
    .
    That sums it up, however, there is no mention of the term "Counciliar Church"
    and no mention of the heresies in Vatican II.  It's all about the Pope.  
    .
    I bring this up because of the grave danger to the Faith of this propaganda
    coming out the SSPX headquarters (i.e. The Resistance is sedevacantist and
    outside of the Church).
    .
    The continual hammering me with this propaganda over and over in 5 emails
    forced me to block all further emails from him.  It reminds me of the torture
    of Winston in the book 1984.
    .

    Here’s what Fr. Laisney used to think:

    “As for us, we are in full communion with all the Popes and Bishops before the Second Vatican Council, celebrating precisely the Mass which they codified and celebrated, teaching the Catechism which they drew up, standing up against the errors which they have many times condemned in their encyclicals and pastoral letters. We let you judge on which side the rupture is to be found. We are extremely saddened by the blindness of spirit and the hardening of heart of the Roman authorities.

    On the other hand, we have never wished to belong to this system which calls itself the Conciliar Church, and defines itself with the Novus Ordo Missæ, an ecuмenism which leads to indifferentism and the laicization of all society. Yes, we have no part, nullam partem habemus,with the pantheon of the religions of Assisi; our own excommunication by a decree of Your Eminence or of another Roman Congregation would only be the irrefutable proof of this. We ask for nothing better than to be declared out of communion with this adulterous spirit which has been blowing in the Church for the last 25 years; we ask for nothing better than to be declared outside of this impious communion of the ungodly. We believe in the One God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, with the Father and the Holy Ghost, and we will always remain faithful to His unique Spouse, the One Holy Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church.
    To be publicly associated with this sanction which is inflicted upon the six Catholic Bishops, Defenders of the Faith in its integrity and wholeness, would be for us a mark of honor and a sign of orthodoxy before the faithful.

    https://sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Archbishop_Lefebvre_and_the_Vatican/Part_I/1988-07-06.htm
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline apollo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 689
    • Reputation: +353/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #34 on: May 24, 2021, 06:47:16 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here’s what Fr. Laisney used to think:

    “As for us, we are in full communion with all the Popes and Bishops before the Second Vatican Council, celebrating precisely the Mass which they codified and celebrated, teaching the Catechism which they drew up, standing up against the errors which they have many times condemned in their encyclicals and pastoral letters. We let you judge on which side the rupture is to be found. We are extremely saddened by the blindness of spirit and the hardening of heart of the Roman authorities.

    On the other hand, we have never wished to belong to this system which calls itself the Conciliar Church, and defines itself with the Novus Ordo Missæ, an ecuмenism which leads to indifferentism and the laicization of all society. Yes, we have no part, nullam partem habemus,with the pantheon of the religions of Assisi; our own excommunication by a decree of Your Eminence or of another Roman Congregation would only be the irrefutable proof of this. We ask for nothing better than to be declared out of communion with this adulterous spirit which has been blowing in the Church for the last 25 years; we ask for nothing better than to be declared outside of this impious communion of the ungodly. We believe in the One God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, with the Father and the Holy Ghost, and we will always remain faithful to His unique Spouse, the One Holy Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church.
    To be publicly associated with this sanction which is inflicted upon the six Catholic Bishops, Defenders of the Faith in its integrity and wholeness, would be for us a mark of honor and a sign of orthodoxy before the faithful.

    https://sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Archbishop_Lefebvre_and_the_Vatican/Part_I/1988-07-06.htm
    Amazing !! I guess that explains why the new argument is only about the Pope and sedevacantism.  If he talks about anything else he will sound like a flip flopper.
    .
    Or, when the leadership changes, the followers have to change, or get expelled.


    Offline apollo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 689
    • Reputation: +353/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #35 on: May 24, 2021, 07:10:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here are some more statements that I received:
    .
    "Archbishop Lefebvre’s teaching on the Church was not that of the “resistance” but rather that of Fr Paul Robinson, and of the Society of Saint Pius X: we have a bad pope, we don’t follow his errors, but we do recognise him as the Pope."
    .
    "But it is also plainly clear that Bishop Williamson did none of those long and painful efforts of Archbishop Lefebvre. [that he did with Rome before consecrating 4 bishops].
     
    "Though bishop Fellay is not perfect, yet that does not excuse Bishop Williamson.

    "We say: we have a bad pope, a very bad pope. We acknowledge in him the papacy, which comes from our Lord Jesus Christ, but we absolutely reject his errors, scandals and heretical.
     
    "This has always been Archbishop Lefebvre’s position from beginning to end. He has always be faithful to it. This is our position. Unfortunately it is not the “resistance”’s position.
     

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 9318
    • Reputation: +9125/-872
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #36 on: May 24, 2021, 07:54:15 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Fr. Laisney has a reputation for acting as a "first responder" to defend the SSPX.



    But, like the French military stereotype, his preparation for battle is often questionable?

    When the famous Max Krah expose hit the internet in 2010, it was Fr. Laisney who first rushed to Bp. Fellay's defense.

    Maximilian Krah and Menzingen: A Cause for Serious Concern?

    This article was a turning point in SSPX history, when the zionist was found to be working for Menzingen as a lawyer, financier and marketing man.

    Fr. Laisney came forth with a batch of poorly thought-out excuses, even worse than the ones you presented above.  

    In a rare moment of genius, an assistant to Bp. Williamson made a comprehensive rebuttal (don't recall his name?)
    He destroyed Fr. Laisney's arguments, point by point.  

    In fact, the rebuttal was so thorough, I likened it to a rhetorical decapitation.  
    Fr. Laisney had been so defeated, it was hard for me to imagine him defending the SSPX anymore.
    If his superiors were thinking correctly, they would have asked him to refrain from future public responses.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2382
    • Reputation: +1543/-92
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #37 on: May 24, 2021, 08:05:40 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • .
    The continual hammering me with this propaganda over and over in 5 emails
    forced me to block all further emails from him.  It reminds me of the torture
    of Winston in the book 1984.
    .
    What is Fr. Laisney's e-mail? Maybe some here in CathInfo would like to write to him.


    Offline apollo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 689
    • Reputation: +353/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #38 on: May 24, 2021, 08:19:05 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What is Fr. Laisney's e-mail? Maybe some here in CathInfo would like to write to him.
    I feel it would be dishonest to make his email public.  I've already said too much,
    but I did so to expose the propaganda, so that other people can recognize the
    lies and disinformation when it shows up in the sermons or on the SSPX website.

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 32736
    • Reputation: +29017/-584
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #39 on: May 24, 2021, 08:33:46 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Fr. Laisney:
    Supplied jurisdiction is not something good by itself, and ONLY EXISTS if normal jurisdiction cannot be had. Those who reject normal jurisdiction when it can be had do NOT even have supplied jurisdiction!

    This is a steaming crock of bulls***!

    So the SSPX wasn't legitimate -- pretty much EVER? Because Traditional priests in ANY group could have ALWAYS surrendered to Modern Rome, especially after 1988. The FSSP was open and waiting to receive any SSPX or other Trad priest(s) that wanted to end the fight, and stop struggling against Vatican II and the Conciliar errors. Any SSPX priest(s) who got scruples about being "irregular" could have had NORMAL JURISDICTION WITHIN DAYS after showing up in Rome, hat in hand, with a white flag, surrendering.

    There is nothing new about "current year" compared to any year post-Vatican 2 -- particularly after 1988. I'm sure some priests got squeamish/scrupulous and left Tradition between 1970 and 1988 as well. Rome has always been willing to take back priests who left Tradition.

    My point:
    What are the CONDITIONS to get normal jurisdiction? Do you have to surrender to Vatican II?

    Yes. Absolutely yes.

    For a good Traditional priest, those conditions are unacceptable, and REMAIN SO to the present day. And so, the neo-SSPX are a bunch of surrender monkeys, and the Resistance is the true legacy of Archbishop Lefebvre and one of the safest groups to associate with in the Traditional Movement.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    My accounts (Paypal, Venmo) have been (((shut down))) PM me for how to donate and keep the forum going.

    Offline apollo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 689
    • Reputation: +353/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #40 on: May 24, 2021, 08:34:07 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Father Laisney made a good point during the early SSPX-Resistance discussions. When the Pope asks for something bad, we resist. But if we asks for something good, we are bound to obey. Now, when the Pope wants to correct the injustices done toward the Society, and officially regularize its place within the Church, he wants something good. Therefore, we are not allowed to resist that. Therefore, the SSPX is right in seeking regularization.

    That was Fr. Laisney's argument and it was a good one. I'll have to dig it up if anyone wants the sources. I recall reading it on the Society website.
    .
    Then Archbishop Lefevbre got it wrong when he said, "It is the strict duty of every
    priest to separate himself from the Counciliar Church, until such time as it returns
    to the Catholic Doctrines preceding Vatican II" ??????
    .
    I think that quote is from his book, "Spiritual Journey".  So Fr Laisney was WRONG or forgetting the most important point.  


    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2382
    • Reputation: +1543/-92
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #41 on: May 24, 2021, 08:39:19 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I feel it would be dishonest to make his email public.  I've already said too much,
    but I did so to expose the propaganda, so that other people can recognize the
    lies and disinformation when it shows up in the sermons or on the SSPX website.
    Thank you for your reply. 
    I would suggest you unblock him and then eventually take your time to reply to each one of his talking-points one at a time. 

    Offline apollo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 689
    • Reputation: +353/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #42 on: May 24, 2021, 08:47:58 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you for your reply.
    I would suggest you unblock him and then eventually take your time to reply to each one of his talking-points one at a time.
    .
    I was doing that.  The responses that I got back were more lies and deception and
    showing complete ignorance about the Resistance.   He was also twisting my words
    saying that my belief was wrong, when he made false assumptions about my beliefs.
    .
    Then he just kept beating me over the head with the "steaming crock of BS".  What
    good does it do to "prove" someone wrong, when he doesn't have the ability to understand
    your argument.  It reminded me of my experiences with Protestants -- a waste of time.
    .
    However, I did send him two links:
    1. Video by B. Williamson,
    2. Video by Fr. MacDonald,

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 32736
    • Reputation: +29017/-584
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #43 on: May 24, 2021, 08:48:33 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Fr. Laisney's assertion is insane.

    Basically saying that war is not moral, if there is ANY WAY you can live at peace with your enemy -- including surrender.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    My accounts (Paypal, Venmo) have been (((shut down))) PM me for how to donate and keep the forum going.

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 32736
    • Reputation: +29017/-584
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Robinson on the Anti-Resistance Warpath
    « Reply #44 on: May 24, 2021, 08:52:42 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Just remember, MOST of those taken in by this propaganda WANT to be deceived. They want a comfortable, easy life. They want to have their comfy routine on Sunday, Mass every Sunday, decently close by, with no emergency atmosphere or necessity for THEM PERSONALLY to give, give, give of their time or money.

    Instead of going to a small Resistance chapel where a forty year old man might be needed for serving Mass, they'd rather attend a large established SSPX chapel with a serving department and a serving schedule -- and plenty of boys to serve. Apply this to every other chapel need (accounting, cleaning, maintenance, choir, etc.)

    They want to show up for Mass, and go home and start their REAL Sunday -- which is heavy on the FUN or RECREATION aspect -- not so much on the "attend to your soul" or "give it to God" aspect. If I wasn't correct, you wouldn't have so many people preferring Low Mass over a High Mass. People want to "get it over with" and aren't all that interested in "Church stuff" or "God stuff". They don't want to go to hell, no -- so they attend Mass. Maybe even every Sunday. But they're lukewarm, Sunday Catholics.

    They are LOOKING for an excuse to have their easy life. Priests like Fr. Laisney give them that weak excuse. These lukewarm Catholics embrace it.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    My accounts (Paypal, Venmo) have been (((shut down))) PM me for how to donate and keep the forum going.