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Author Topic: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!  (Read 4497 times)

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Offline Boru

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Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2025, 07:57:58 AM »
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  • If I see someone commit a murder, I know that they are a murderer

    If I hear someone say something heretical, I know that they are a heretic

    You are guilty of a sin when you commit it. A sentence of guilt from the state or Church merely confirms that you are responsible for the crime
    And you tell me. And then I find out it was actually self-defence and that what YOU thought you saw was in fact not quite the whole picture. This is why we have trials and do not let the individual string someone up to the nearest tree.

    Offline Boru

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #46 on: August 28, 2025, 08:07:56 AM »
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  • :facepalm:  You continue to miss the forest for the trees.  There's such a thing as "the court of public opinion" and it's a real thing.  There's also the judgement of GOD, right at the point of sin.  The legal courts (either secular or ecclesiastical) are simply playing catch-up to what really happened.

    Canon law has plenty of "ipso facto" penalties (spiritual) that happen immediately, even if the judgmenent of the Church (temporal) needs time to catch up.

    ......................
    These 'ipso facto' penalties do not come from you. They are spiritual and come form God. God decides, not you. We cannot attempt to read another mans soul without a proper trial. It's that simple. Again, you can say that his works smacks of heresy etc but YOU cannot declare him a heretic and try and get everyone else to declare him a heretic as you would be stepping outside your competence and committing the sin of usurpation as outlined by St. Thomas Aquinas. All your justifications have no place here.


    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #47 on: August 28, 2025, 08:25:59 AM »
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  • And you tell me. And then I find out it was actually self-defence and that what YOU thought you saw was in fact not quite the whole picture. This is why we have trials and do not let the individual string someone up to the nearest tree.
    That's not what I said. I didn't say "If I think I see", but "If I see". And anyways, my testimony, being a firsthand witness, would be used as evidence of said murderers guilt.

    To make it more clear for you, If I see someone walk up behind a little child playing with a ball and shoot them in the head, that is murder. I don't need a court to tell me the murderer is guilty. I, having eyes, ears, and a brain, know what I saw and heard and can form a judgement about what happened based on those things. In fact, someone would be well within their rights, and in some circuмstances actually morally compelled, to shoot the murderer dead, if they posed a continued threat to anyone else around them. You do not need secular or church authority to tell you that they are a threat. Many people would end up murdered that way

    Likewise, If you hear someone say "Jesus Christ is only man, and not God", you know they are a heretic because that is contrary to Christ's doctrine. You do not need the Church to give a formal sentence against that person as a heretic for you to know that. You know it because you know what they said is contrary to Catholic teaching. If you know someone is a heretic, even without a sentence from the Church, you are justified, and probably morally compelled in some circuмstances, to warn others that the person is a heretic, because they pose a threat to souls. You do not need permission from the Church to do that, because many people may end up in hell if they are influence by the heretic 
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #48 on: August 28, 2025, 08:37:36 AM »
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  • These 'ipso facto' penalties do not come from you. They are spiritual and come form God. God decides, not you. We cannot attempt to read another mans soul without a proper trial. It's that simple. Again, you can say that his works smacks of heresy etc but YOU cannot declare him a heretic and try and get everyone else to declare him a heretic as you would be stepping outside your competence and committing the sin of usurpation as outlined by St. Thomas Aquinas. All your justifications have no place here.
    No court, civil or ecclesiastical, can "attempt to read another man's soul". That is reserved to God alone, as only He knows the disposition of someone's soul. Humans judge outward actions.

    Very simple:

    Christ teaches X

    Bob says Y, which is contrary to X

    Bob is a heretic
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #49 on: August 28, 2025, 09:17:53 AM »
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  • These 'ipso facto' penalties do not come from you. They are spiritual and come form God. God decides, not you. We cannot attempt to read another mans soul without a proper trial. It's that simple. Again, you can say that his works smacks of heresy etc but YOU cannot declare him a heretic and try and get everyone else to declare him a heretic as you would be stepping outside your competence and committing the sin of usurpation as outlined by St. Thomas Aquinas. All your justifications have no place here.
    No.  Not all ipso facto are spiritual.  It’s in canon law, which is human law.  

    You’re basically arguing the same thing as Siscoe/Salza.  Nothing happens until the Church decides.  So that means (stupidly) that Biden and Peℓσѕι are Catholics in good standing.  

    Ladislaus, is Boru either Sisco or Salza??


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #50 on: August 28, 2025, 09:19:44 AM »
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  • No court, civil or ecclesiastical, can "attempt to read another man's soul". That is reserved to God alone, as only He knows the disposition of someone's soul. Humans judge outward actions.

    Very simple:

    Christ teaches X

    Bob says Y, which is contrary to X

    Bob is a heretic
    Exactly.  There are various levels of heresy.  The church only decides on the top-tier cases.  

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #51 on: August 28, 2025, 09:44:27 AM »
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  • No.  Not all ipso facto are spiritual.  It’s in canon law, which is human law. 

    You’re basically arguing the same thing as Siscoe/Salza.  Nothing happens until the Church decides.  So that means (stupidly) that Biden and Peℓσѕι are Catholics in good standing. 

    Ladislaus, is Boru either Sisco or Salza??

    I wouldn't rule it out ... though she claims to be a woman, though I myself had been suspicious of that myself.  We could ask.  I think I recall some outright denials from them on past accounts when they were in fact later confirmed to be Siscoe or Salza, so not sure if just asking her (?) outright would make a difference.

    Offline Boru

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #52 on: August 28, 2025, 10:21:55 AM »
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  • Borat continues to lie by claiming this is a sedevacantist concern ... earlier claiming it was made up by the Dimonds, and having been duly corrected, can no longer be accused of not lying.

    Indeed, SSPX can do what they want.  They always have, since their hubris prevents them from acknowledging that anyone who disagrees with them ever has any legitimate point. 

    We're calling them out for being wicked and evil, and they will be judged by God for subjecting the faithful to Sacraments laboring under positive doubt.  God will hold them accountable, and we're calling them out.  It goes without saying that they will do whatever they will do, so Borat can keep bloviating as long as she wants.

    Borat too will be judged, since she defends and thereby helps to enable this wickedness.

    You sir are extremely vocal and aggressive about getting everyone to desert the Church, leave the SSPX, leave the Resistance even, and become a Sede-vacantist like yourself. What is your real agenda?

    Perhaps you need a lesson in basic catechism: Article IX, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, TAN book:

    "First, as St. Augustine observes, the Prophets spoke more plainly of the Church than Christ, foreseeing that on this a much greater number may err and be deceived than on the mystery of the Incarnation. For in after ages there would not be wanting wicked men, who, like the ape that would fain pass for a man, would claim that they alone were Catholics, and with no less impiety than effrontery assert that with them alone is the Catholic Church."

    "For a person is not to be called a heretic as soon as he shall have offended in matters of faith; but he is a heretic who, having disregarded the authority of the Church, maintains impious opinions with pertinacity."

    "The Church..as the scriptures and writings of the Saints testify, includes within her fold the good and the bad..Hence there are but three classes of persons excluded from the Church's pale: infidels, heretics and schismatics, and excommunicated persons...but with regard to the rest...even the lives of ministers debased by crime, they are still within the Church, and therefore lose nothing of their power."

    "...the Church is known and is compared to a city built on a mountain, and visible from every side. As all must yield obedience to her authority, it is necessary that she be known by all."

    "The Church has but one ruler and one governor, the invisible one, Christ, whom the eternal Father hath made over all the Church, which is His body; (and) the visible one, the Pope, who as legitimate successor of Peter..fills the Apostolic chair."

    "St. Jerome...'Following no chief but Christ, I am united in communion with your holiness, that is, the chair of Peter. I know that on that rock is built the Church. Whoever will eat the lamb outside this house is profane; whoever is not in the ark of Noah shall perish in the flood'."

    "Christ (is) not only the author of all the Sacraments, but also their invisible minster - He it is who baptizes, He it is who absolves...although men are appointed by Him the external ministers of the Sacraments...so has He placed over His Church, which he governs by His invisible Spirit, a (visible) man to be His vicar and the minister of His power. A visible Church requires a visible head..."

    "Be careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace; one body and one Spirit."

    In 1884, satan challenged Christ to test His Church. Pope Leo XIII heard him ask for 100 years. Christ agreed.
    In 1884 the Fabian society (Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ by infiltration) was set up to infiltrate government, schools and the Church. Agents by the hundreds were sent undercover to flood these establishments. The plan? Stealth mode; pretend to be what you are not in order to slowly change the establishment to your way of thinking from within. Thanks to Pope Pius X, this test was checked somewhat and calmed the storm. But the enemies resurfaced at Vatican II.  This is a test. What we are going through is that very test that Christ agreed to. Its a test of faith, of trust and a test of loyalty. It is the flood of old. We know what the Church is. The Body of Christ; visible and invisible. Head and members. Good and bad. Peter and Judas. And as it is divine, it is indefectable and eternal. Satan could only touch the human element; he could not touch the divine.

    Since around 1984, the traditional movement within the Church has blossomed. Satan failed as Christ knew he would. The storm has been receding and its only a matter of time before the Church regains her former glory.

    We must stay with the Ark and ride out the final throes of the debasing storm.


    Offline basilwarden

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #53 on: August 28, 2025, 11:08:16 AM »
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  • You sir are extremely vocal and aggressive about getting everyone to desert the Church, leave the SSPX, leave the Resistance even, and become a Sede-vacantist like yourself. What is your real agenda?

    Perhaps you need a lesson in basic catechism: Article IX, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, TAN book:

    "First, as St. Augustine observes, the Prophets spoke more plainly of the Church than Christ, foreseeing that on this a much greater number may err and be deceived than on the mystery of the Incarnation. For in after ages there would not be wanting wicked men, who, like the ape that would fain pass for a man, would claim that they alone were Catholics, and with no less impiety than effrontery assert that with them alone is the Catholic Church."

    "For a person is not to be called a heretic as soon as he shall have offended in matters of faith; but he is a heretic who, having disregarded the authority of the Church, maintains impious opinions with pertinacity."

    "The Church..as the scriptures and writings of the Saints testify, includes within her fold the good and the bad..Hence there are but three classes of persons excluded from the Church's pale: infidels, heretics and schismatics, and excommunicated persons...but with regard to the rest...even the lives of ministers debased by crime, they are still within the Church, and therefore lose nothing of their power."

    "...the Church is known and is compared to a city built on a mountain, and visible from every side. As all must yield obedience to her authority, it is necessary that she be known by all."

    "The Church has but one ruler and one governor, the invisible one, Christ, whom the eternal Father hath made over all the Church, which is His body; (and) the visible one, the Pope, who as legitimate successor of Peter..fills the Apostolic chair."

    "St. Jerome...'Following no chief but Christ, I am united in communion with your holiness, that is, the chair of Peter. I know that on that rock is built the Church. Whoever will eat the lamb outside this house is profane; whoever is not in the ark of Noah shall perish in the flood'."

    "Christ (is) not only the author of all the Sacraments, but also their invisible minster - He it is who baptizes, He it is who absolves...although men are appointed by Him the external ministers of the Sacraments...so has He placed over His Church, which he governs by His invisible Spirit, a (visible) man to be His vicar and the minister of His power. A visible Church requires a visible head..."

    "Be careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace; one body and one Spirit."

    In 1884, satan challenged Christ to test His Church. Pope Leo XIII heard him ask for 100 years. Christ agreed.
    In 1884 the Fabian society (Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ by infiltration) was set up to infiltrate government, schools and the Church. Agents by the hundreds were sent undercover to flood these establishments. The plan? Stealth mode; pretend to be what you are not in order to slowly change the establishment to your way of thinking from within. Thanks to Pope Pius X, this test was checked somewhat and calmed the storm. But the enemies resurfaced at Vatican II.  This is a test. What we are going through is that very test that Christ agreed to. Its a test of faith, of trust and a test of loyalty. It is the flood of old. We know what the Church is. The Body of Christ; visible and invisible. Head and members. Good and bad. Peter and Judas. And as it is divine, it is indefectable and eternal. Satan could only touch the human element; he could not touch the divine.

    Since around 1984, the traditional movement within the Church has blossomed. Satan failed as Christ knew he would. The storm has been receding and its only a matter of time before the Church regains her former glory.

    We must stay with the Ark and ride out the final throes of the debasing storm.
    Do you reject Vatican 2?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #54 on: August 28, 2025, 12:38:42 PM »
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  • You sir are extremely vocal and aggressive about getting everyone to desert the Church, leave the SSPX, leave the Resistance even, and become a Sede-vacantist like yourself. What is your real agenda?

    How is it that you refuse to stop with the lies and the gaslighting?  I've said very little about sedevacantism during this time other than stating that the question of Holy Ordrers is NOT a sedevacantist issue, but also troubles many R&R.  In fact, I regularly attend the chapel of an R&R priest, an independent priest, and he holds NO Orders to be invalid.  And the other point I raised is where your principle of disciplinary infallibility is one you share with the sedevacantists (including myself).

    If my point was to have everyone go sedevacantist, I wouldn't have even bothered, but would have just said, "See, doubtful Orders, immediately leave SSPX and go to your nearest SV chapel."  This thing was precisely in order to do a service to those who do in fact attend SSPX chapels, i.e. making it possible for them to continue going their with peace of soul ... therefore exactly the opposite of trying to get them to leave the SSPX.

    Nor have I said a word about the Resistance.

    I'm actually "persona non grata" to many SVs, since I also believe in the necessity of Baptism for salvation.

    I have NEVER adhered to any single group, and my opinions are extremely eclectic, where I agree and disagree with just about every single "group" out there on one point or another

    My "agenda" is truth, and the truth of this matter is obvious.  But your arguments are so utterly absurd, that it is clearly YOU who have the agenda.  I am quite open to persuasion that there's no positive doubt regarding NO Orders, except that nothing that even remotely resembles a convincing argument has ever been offered.

    You continue to lie and to gaslight.

    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #55 on: August 28, 2025, 12:45:46 PM »
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  • I'm seeing a pattern on almost all Catholic forums, Youtube comments, x spaces, etc., spamming the same bullshit

    Catholics looking into traditionalism and the objective in-your-face apostasy with careful research.

    Then,

    Every one of those spaces getting infiltrated by plants, like the usual pope-splaining suspects in Cathinfo for instance. 



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #56 on: August 28, 2025, 12:48:11 PM »
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  • Since around 1984, the traditional movement within the Church has blossomed. Satan failed as Christ knew he would. The storm has been receding and its only a matter of time before the Church regains her former glory.

    We must stay with the Ark and ride out the final throes of the debasing storm.

    Yeah, it's becoming more and more likely that this troll is Salza now identifying as a woman ... given this reference to "traditional movement within the Church", as opposed to Traditional movement "outside the Church" ... which is where Salza would put SSPX.  Hike up your skirt, Salza, and get out of here.

    Every time Salza has come on here, he started trolling by attacking sedevacantists, attempting to win support from R&R in order to "divide and conquer", but then gradually reveals (when pushed into a corner) that he holds that even SSPX are "outside the Church".

    Only reason there was ANY "traditional movement within [sic] the [Conciliar] Church [sic]" was because of +Lefebvre.  Wojtyla permitted the Indult as a way to neutralize the growing SSPX, and then the various "Ecclesia Dei" groups sprung up after the consecrations.  Ratzinger admitted that his goal with the "Motu" was to reabsorb Traditional Catholics into the Conciliar sect.

    I told you that Borat troll had some personal motivation.  S/he (what's your pronound today, Salza?) has been getting Sacraments from doubtful FSSP and ICK presbyters, and so is desperately tyring to argue for their validity.  You're better off finding the truth, rather than trying to engage in wishful thinking, since if you're not receiving valid Sacraments, making yourself feel better through self-deception won't profit you much in the end.

    No SSPX partisan would have argued from the Church's disciplinary infallibility.  That line of argument is simply NOT one of the ones in their arsenal, since they've been decades minimizing and rejecting it, and explaining it away ... since it has in fact been a major point of argument against them from the SVs.

    We have here a Motarian troll, most likely Salza and/or Siscoe, or if this is a woman, some partisan (or significant other) of Salza and/or Siscoe.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #57 on: August 28, 2025, 12:53:52 PM »
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  • Before posting again, Borat ... recalling that it's a lie to sin ...

    1) Are you Salza, Siscoe, or some close ally to one of these?

    2) Are you the poster formerly known by various names, such as Xavier, XavierSem, Nishant, and others ... or someone associated with him?

    3) Do you even attend SSPX chapels or are you an "Ecclesia Dei" type ... FSSP / ICK/ Motu, one of those "approved" varieties?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #58 on: August 28, 2025, 12:57:14 PM »
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  • Do you reject Vatican 2?

    You caught on as well, where Borat referred to the Traditional movement WITHIN the Church (starting in 1984), thereby exclusing SSPX, which had been flourishing well before 1984.

    Of course, the ridiculous private interpretation regarding 1884 and 1984 (I hold it's 75 years, one version of the vision, and that it was from 1958 until 2033) ... this makes it sound like we could be dealing here with Xavier, and or possibly his significant other, as Xavier got married not too long ago.  So perhaps, if this is really a woman, Xavier could have sent her over here to continue his mission to conver millions.  Xavier was very fond of attempting to draw theological conclusions from (his interpretations of) private revelation (even dubious ones).

    Offline Octavius7

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #59 on: August 28, 2025, 01:06:09 PM »
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  • Before posting again, Borat ... recalling that it's a lie to sin ...

    1) Are you Salza, Siscoe, or some close ally to one of these?

    2) Are you the poster formerly known by various names, such as Xavier, XavierSem, Nishant, and others ... or someone associated with him?

    3) Do you even attend SSPX chapels or are you an "Ecclesia Dei" type ... FSSP / ICK/ Motu, one of those "approved" varieties?
    Good call