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Author Topic: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!  (Read 2925 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 10:54:35 AM »
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  • Right, these last couple of attempts by SSPX to justify their indefensible position have been so replete with logical fallacy, gaslighting, absurdly-poor arguments, and other forms of blatant dishonesty ... that it PROVES without any shadow of a doubt their bad will, deception, and ... in so many words ... LYING.  I didn't think priests would lie, but they are in fact lying through their teeth.

    But, should that come as a surprise from the Modernist Heretic Robinson, who openly rejects the inerrancy of Sacred Scriture and therefore its divine authorship.  St. Robert Bellarmine would have had Robison burned at the stake.  Robinson also refused to sign letters during the Plandemic attesting to the fact that Traditional Catholics had religious objections to the jab.  This is STRIKE THREE.

    Robinson' needs to be given a chance to recant.  If he does, he needs to be consigned to a monastery to life, prevented from any public preaching, reduced to a simplex priest.  If he does not recant, he should be defrocked and excommunicated.  In any case, his book needs to be at the top of the Index.

    What makes Robinson that much more pernicious is that he parades around not only in a Roman collar, but posing as a Traditional Catholic ... while denying the inerrancy of Sacred Scripture every bit as much as any foaming-at the-mouth Jesuit (I know, since I battled them for 7 years at their institutions), except that he dresses up his heresies in the smells and bells of the Tridentine Rites.  At least the Jesuits don't hide who they are, and just go have their clown Masses, and so there's little deception.

    What makes it evern worse is that the SSPX as an organization have endorsed his heretical monstrosity of a book, and keep appointing him to positions of "leadership".  I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes the next US District Superior or even Seminary Rector.  Meanwhile, the old guard, such as Father Kevin Robinson or Father Peter Scott ... they're hidden away.

    That tells me everything I need to know about neo-SSPX.  100% infiltrated and taken over.

    Fully agree.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 12:25:12 PM »
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  • So, I think many people believe that I'm being very harsh with Father Robinson ... except that to be weak and mealy-mouthed about it has the effect of implying that those errors are just opinion and are just "liberal" and within the realm of what one can believe and teach and still qualify as a Catholic.

    That was the same problem with the Dubia sent to Bergoglio, where they had some "concerns" and "hesitations" and "uncertainties" and "questons" about what Bergoglio had taught.  By doing that, the message you're actually sending is that you're "not sure" whether one can be a Catholic and hold that one can receive the Sacraments while living in a state of sin.

    Recall that one becomes a heretic not only for open heresy, but also for DOUBTING truths that are de fide.  If someone said, for instance, that Our Lady is part of the Holy Quadrinity now ... and you responded with "hmm, I'm not sure" ... then you're also saying that you're "not sure" about the dogma regarding the Holy Trinity.  That makes you a heretic every bit as much as if you denied it.

    See, it's only this modern age that has led us to tolerate heresy.  So hostile were the Church Fathers, and the Church in general, toward heresy, that they declared anathemas over single "iota"s, since for them, as Bishop Williamson often said, "ideas mattered" ... and objective truth mattered and was in fact the measure of all reality.

    It's only with the creeping subjectivism (that was evidently not taught at STAS after +Williamson was kicked out) that you can tolerate error because "sincerity" is the ultimate criterion.  If you're "sincere" in your heresy, then, hey, it's not so bad, and you have a right to hold it, and you can be saved just the same, as long as you're (subjectively) convinced about it.

    So we need to get their attention, and we can't do that with "well, I personally think, Father, that you're mistaken on this point ..."  Sure, that's persuasive.  But if you say, "Father, that's Modernist heresy." ... at the very last, you'll get his attention, whereas the former is going to be blow off immediately. I'd be happy to retract it also if you or he can explain how I'm wrong, or how St. Robert Bellarmine was wrong.  I'd rather retract later if I'm wrong than to let it "slide" as if heresy were "no big deal".  As long as he offers the Tridentine Mass, and has good-smelling incense and melodious bells, then that's all that counts, no big deal.

    I love the clip from Bishop Williamson about "nitheness" where he concludes, "No.  I despise you." [for error and heresy]

    And I do absolutely DESPISE this heretical teaching of Father Paul Robinson.  I've actually seen the destructiveness of this in action, after 7 years of being taught the exact same garbage by the Jesuits, first in High School, then at University (both Jesuit).  I saw many young men at the Jesuit High School lose the faith because they were immediately taught that the Book of Genesis was a myth, there weren't a real Adam and Eve, that these are all stories to make a point, that the Bible didn't intend to teach about history or science, that the parting of the Red Sea was just because at certain times this marsh they walked through would recede, and on and on and on.  That's where the Modernists got their start, attacking Sacred Scripture.  What else was just something "not intended by Scripture".  Oh, St. Paul, in his misogynistic passages, was just reflecting the attitude of his times, and that wasn't the Holy Ghost teaching that (for those who even believed that the Holy Ghost had anything to do with Sacred Scripture).  What's next?  This type of crap shattered the faith of countless young men at my Jesuit All-Boys' High School.

    So, I will not hold punches, I will not be "nice" or "nithe" ... since the fact that he poses at a Traditional priest makes him THAT MUCH MORE DANGEROUS, since the more dressing you put on top of the poison, the more likely people are to swallow it.  If the same thing were said by some Jesuit wearing a rainbow stole while officiating a clown Mass, people of good faith would immediately recognize it as heresy and reject it outright.  But put the same nonsense behind a Trad priest using all the smells and bells, and "well, I guess it must be OK to think this way".

    NO !!!  Father Paul Robinson is a Modernist Heretic, and his book belongs on the Index.  And the SSPX should be condemned for approving of and promoting his book.  People have been burned at the stake for FAR LESS than what he holds and teaches.

    BTW, I'm also not one to make the charge of heresy lightly.  I've often locked horns with sedevacantists who shoot from the hip and throw the word heresy around like it's going out of style, when some error has some note less than that of heresy or else they're just plain wrong about something even being an error (where it's more of an opinion).  While I do believe Bergoglio was and Prevost is a heretic, I would say that the majority of the accusations are wrong.

    Galileo was condemned as a heretic for FAR LESS, for something that could even be debated slightly more, i.e. by claiming that when Sacred Scripture says that the sun moved or the sun stopped, this really means that the earth stopped, etc.  In a sense, motion is relative, so one could make a better case for that.

    But Sacred Scripture clearly teaches that during the Great Deluge, the ENTIRE earth was covered with water, the peaks of ALL the mountains, and that ALL flesh was destroyed from the earth except those in the ark ... that does not mean there was a local flood in the Mediterranean basin that wiped out maybe 10% of all humanity, covered NO mountain peaks (since the water would quickly dissipate below that level) ... and where instead of spending decades building an Ark, Noah could have just packed up and moved a couple hundred miles.  There's no way to RESCUE that without having to attribute error to Sacred Scripture.  That's heresy.  St. Robert Bellarmine declared that Galileo was heretical not because scientific matters themselves can be heretical, but because by implication he denied the inerrancy of Sacred Scripture, by contradicting it, i.e. his positions were heretical not ex parte objecti, sed ex parte Dicentis, not because of the objective content but because of WHO TAUGHT IT, namely, the Holy Ghost.

    Now if I say ... "Well ... in my opinion, it's just that, I think Father Robinson is mistaken." and of course I add, "oh, but I have the greatest respect for him, and he's a wonderful Trad priest, just that he's wrong about this." ... what would I be doing?  I'd be CONDONING THE HERESY, saying it's just opinion, and that it's no big deal and does nothing to detract from how great a priest he is, etc. etc.  Sorry.  No can do.  I call out heresy as heresy.

    I mentioned that the Councils declared anathemas against heretics.  Well, they often added anathemas against those who TOLERATED heresies and effectively being complicit in them and enabling them.  If I "softened" up against Father Robinson, I'd become an enabler of his heresies, and I refuse to do that.  I will not be party to the wreckage of faith his errors can cause and have caused.  Also, even charity toward the heretic requires being blunt and direct.  Had the Dubia "Cardinals" just come straight out and said he was teaching heresy ... I think that could have caused a massive cascading effect in the Church.  Instead, most of those who self-identify as Catholic might have mentioned a thing or two about it on X, until they got bored, and moved on with a yawn.


    Offline Boru

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 02:29:39 PM »
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  •  So what the SSPX did -processing through the streets of Rome into the Vatican, with hundreds and hundreds of traditional priests and seminarians - was truly amazing. It made a statement to the world. It made a statement to our enemies. It made a statement to the Pope.
    By their fruits you shall know them Pax :)

    Offline Boru

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 03:37:19 PM »
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  • And I do absolutely DESPISE this heretical teaching of Father Paul Robinson.  I've actually seen the destructiveness of this in action, after 7 years of being taught the exact same garbage by the Jesuits, first in High School, then at University (both Jesuit).  I saw many young men at the Jesuit High School lose the faith because they were immediately taught that the Book of Genesis was a myth, there weren't a real Adam and Eve, that these are all stories to make a point, that the Bible didn't intend to teach about history or science, that the parting of the Red Sea was just because at certain times this marsh they walked through would recede, and on and on and on.  That's where the Modernists got their start, attacking Sacred Scripture.  What else was just something "not intended by Scripture".  Oh, St. Paul, in his misogynistic passages, was just reflecting the attitude of his times, and that wasn't the Holy Ghost teaching that (for those who even believed that the Holy Ghost had anything to do with Sacred Scripture).  What's next?  This type of crap shattered the faith of countless young men at my Jesuit All-Boys' High School.
    .....

    NO !!!  Father Paul Robinson is a Modernist Heretic, and his book belongs on the Index.  And the SSPX should be condemned for approving of and promoting his book.  People have been burned at the stake for FAR LESS than what he holds and teaches.

    For once, we agree (except for heretic part). I am in the process of trying to get hold of Fr. Robinson's book (without purchasing it) so as to assess it myself. I see Robert Sungensi has been refuting him but the best refutation I have come across is actually from a poster here on Cathinfo - a man going by the pseudo-name 'cassini' who says he has done years of research on this issue. I will post a shortened version of his historical conclusions after this post.

    As I stated in an earlier post, Modernism is a system; an alliance between faith and false (worldly) philosophy; an alliance between Christianity and Gnosticism; an alliance between the Tree of Life and the Tree of knowledge. Show me a Christian who combines his faith with Descartes or Kant or Hegel or any of those western philosophers that influenced the like of Loisy and Co. and I will show you a Modernist.

    Fr. Paul Robinson has succuмbed to this 'system'. Instead of reading scripture according to the traditions of the Church, he is trying to combine worldly pseudo "science" with Christianity. This is the very definition of Modernism - using worldly knowledge to "understand" the depths of Christianity better.

    However, he cannot be accused of being a heretic. A heretic is someone who knowingly rejects or wilfully doubts a doctrine of the Church that must be believed by faith. Which is why Modernism is so dangerous; people succuмbing to it do not seem to realise that they are succuмbing. They think, as Fr. Robinson thinks, that Science and religion come from the same source. Which is true if it is real science. Sadly, Fr. Robinson is not using real science.

    Offline Boru

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 03:59:46 PM »
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  • Post from 'cassini' (abbreviated):

    As many know I have studied the question of the Galileo case and the evolution that followed from it for many years now. Recently I have been re-reading Fr Paul Robinson SSPX book and websites that are so anti-Catholic that he, and many other priests since 1820, have been feeding Catholics with a false philosophy, even heresy, forbidden by the Church.... Fr Robinson’s book The Realistic Guide to Religion and Science is perhaps the most anti-Catholic book on the subject I have ever read:

    The first question I ask readers on CIF is, how dogmatic is the Council of Trent’s teaching on Scripture when they ruled as follows?: ‘Furthermore, in order to curb imprudent clever persons, the synod decrees that no one who relies on his own judgment in matters of faith and morals, which pertain to the building up of Christian doctrine, and that no one who distorts the Sacred Scripture according to his own opinions, shall dare to interpret the said Sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which is held by holy Mother Church, whose duty it is to judge regarding the true sense and interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers, even though interpretations of this kind were never intended to be brought to light. Let those who shall oppose this be reported by their ordinaries and be punished with the penalties prescribed by law.’--- (Denzinger 786)

    In 1616, the above ruling of all of the fathers was given as the reason why Galileo’s fixed-sun moving-Earth solar system was heresy. It was also elevated to formal heresy because it was condemned before as heresy in the early years of the Church and again at Bruno’s trial in 1600. But as you all know, the Father of lies managed to fool important churchmen from 1741 that science had proven Galileo right and the Church wrong. By 1820, the heliocentrism heresy allowed without abrogation was an evolved one due to the 1796 Nebular theory, so popes of the time, and since then, did not condemn it, or Darwin’s book in 1859, lest evolution too would be proven true by science causing another embarrassing Galileo affair for them. By then ‘Biblical scholars’ were taking the Bible to bits, especially Genesis, causing a Modernism within Catholic teaching.

    But then in 1871 and 1887, tests done with regard to a moving Earth, found evidence that proved the geocentrism of the Bible, the Church of 1616 and 1633, and on for 1700 years, was never proven wrong. Einstein then tried to resurrect the heretical heliocentrism as a 50/50 scientific plausibility  All, science and churchmen, grabbed this 50/50 heliocentrism, took it for granted it was 100% scientific, and carried on as though the Church was proven wrong by science. Thus the Modernism it caused to Catholic belief continued.

    So, In order to try to stop the rot in Biblical meaning, Pope Leo XIII produced his encyclical Providentissimus Deus in 1889. In paragraph 18 Pope Leo XIII must have got caught up with the decision of his predecessors in 1741-1835 so added the following in his pastoral letter.

    18: To understand how just is the rule here formulated we must remember, first, that the sacred writers, or to speak more accurately, the Holy Ghost “Who spoke by them, did not intend to teach men these things (that is to say, the essential nature of the things of the visible universe), things in no way profitable unto salvation” (St Augustine). Hence, they did not seek to penetrate the secrets of nature, but rather described and dealt with things in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time, and which in many instances are in daily use at this day, even by the most eminent men of science. Ordinary speech primarily and properly describes what comes under the senses; and somewhat in the same way the sacred writers, as the Angelic Doctor also reminds us, “went by what sensibly appeared,” or put down what God, speaking to men, signified, in the way men could understand and were accustomed to.’--- Providentissimus  Deus.

    From that moment on, that paragraph became the Catholic teaching on the Bible regarding Faith and Science and in particular the Galileo case. I could quote endless assertions to this over the last 100 years since then.

    In his book Fr Robinson states: ‘All of this is explained with perfect clarity and magisterial precision in Leo XIII encyclical  on Scripture Providentissimus Deus, a passage that lays out the Catholic Biblical science interpretive model: He then quotes paragraph 18 above to show that ‘Catholics are not required to believe that:
    • the universe is a certain age,
    • God created that universe in six days
    • the sun goes around the earth or vice versa, and so on.

    (HOWEVER) what the Catholic HISTORY OF FAITH AND SCIENCE has omitted is that in paragraph 14 before 18 of Providentissimus Deus, Pope Leo XIII ruled:

    14. Mother Church has held and holds, whose prerogative it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of Scripture; and therefore, it is permitted to no one to interpret the Holy Scriptures against this sense, or even against the unanimous agreement of the Fathers. By this very wise law the Church by no means retards or blocks the investigations of Biblical science, but rather keeps it free of error, and aids it very much in true progress.’ --- Ch 14, Providentissimus deus.

    So, in other words, Pope Leo XIII had already confirmed that the 1616 decree protecting the moving-sun revelation of Scripture was Catholic teaching. In paragraph 18 there is no reference to Galileo, sunset or sunrise, so cannot be attributed to the Galileo case as every Catholic book on the affair claims.

    Now if the Council of Trent’s Denzinger 786 rule above is dogmatic Catholic teaching, then geocentrism is of Catholic faith. Therefore all the evolutionary theories invented to show a heliocentric universe are anti-Catholic. Indeed because they are all based on a heliocentric universe, evolutionary theories are also heretical and false according to Catholic teaching.

    Indeed how in God's name did the supernatural Creation rules at the dogmatic Vatican Council I get lost. It confirmed the dogma on the supernatural Creation of the 1215 Lateran Council IV.

    ‘All that exists outside God was, in its whole substance, produced
    out of nothing by God. (De fide.) (Vatican Council I, 1870)

    ‘Substance,’ we know from classic philosophy means, ‘what something is,’ all finished, and not what something is becoming or can become as evolution claims. But since the 1820 volte-face, even this supernatural dogma had to be modernised.

    Believe it or not, that is how the supernatural religion of Catholicism became a natural religion that led millions of souls into Hell.



    Offline Comrade

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 04:38:27 PM »
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  • However, he cannot be accused of being a heretic. A heretic is someone who knowingly rejects or wilfully doubts a doctrine of the Church that must be believed by faith. Which is why Modernism is so dangerous; people succuмbing to it do not seem to realise that they are succuмbing. They think, as Fr. Robinson thinks, that Science and religion come from the same source. Which is true if it is real science. Sadly, Fr. Robinson is not using real science.

    You fail to make the distinction between Formal Heretic and Material heretic. Robinson has been publicly warned by many individuals and continues to hold these heresies. So, the time is over to give the benefit of the doubt that he just a confused Catholic. 

    Offline Boru

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 05:10:41 PM »
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  • You fail to make the distinction between Formal Heretic and Material heretic. Robinson has been publicly warned by many individuals and continues to hold these heresies. So, the time is over to give the benefit of the doubt that he just a confused Catholic.
    Publicly warned by whom? I have a battalion of Cathinfo posters calling moi a heretic too. Without the correct authority it means nothing. Moreover, only a belief that directly contravenes an Article of Faith, or that has been explicitly rejected by the Church, is labelled as actual "heresy." The confusion Fr. Robinson suffers from seems to stem from the confusion that the Church herself was/is suffering from; the subject matter is not a clear-cut article of faith.

    Offline Boru

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 05:31:47 PM »
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  • The participation in the Novus Ordo Jubilee is the Last straw for me.  I officially separated myself from the SSPX.  My children and grandchildren will probably continue attending while the kids are in school as there is no alternative near them.  It's up to the parents and especially the father to keep informed and resist the incremental changes coming into the chapels.  The choir at our SSPX mission are all sedevacantists and will not show up if a doubtful priest is scheduled to fill in.
    Your decision is your business but applauding the subversive actions of this sede-vacantist choir is abhorrent. If they feel that strongly about the SSPX's policy of using Novus Order priests who have not been re-ordained (I'm assuming that is what you mean by 'doubtful' priests), then leave. It is unfair to the rest of the congregation to do what they are planning to do. It's unfair to have a group of parishioners who are bent on controlling the parish by such games.


    Offline Comrade

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 05:43:39 PM »
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  • Publicly warned by whom? I have a battalion of Cathinfo posters calling moi a heretic too. Without the correct authority it means nothing. Moreover, only a belief that directly contravenes an Article of Faith, or that has been explicitly rejected by the Church, is labelled as actual "heresy." The confusion Fr. Robinson suffers from seems to stem from the confusion that the Church herself was/is suffering from; the subject matter is not a clear-cut article of faith.
    He was warned by his fellow sspx priests, like Fr. Black.  He can't claim ignorance. So, once again you fail to make the distinction between formal vs. Material. If we have to wait for authority to make this claim, then I guess you think it is not prudent to consider the novus ordo mass as a sacrilege and sinful to attend either.

    Offline Boru

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 06:43:43 PM »
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  • He was warned by his fellow sspx priests, like Fr. Black.  He can't claim ignorance. So, once again you fail to make the distinction between formal vs. Material. If we have to wait for authority to make this claim, then I guess you think it is not prudent to consider the novus ordo mass as a sacrilege and sinful to attend either.
    I know Fr. black very well; good friend of the family. But is Fr. Black his superior? Has Fr. Black ever been his superior? Also, you have not addressed my other point: 'Moreover, only a belief that directly contravenes an Article of Faith, or that has been explicitly rejected by the Church, is labelled as actual "heresy." The confusion Fr. Robinson suffers from seems to stem from the confusion that the Church herself was/is suffering from; the subject matter is not a clear-cut article of faith.'

    So yes, we have to wait for authority. We are not Protestants. We do not go around declaring as if we were Pope. We can say he skirts with heresy - what he teaches seems heretical - but we have no authority to proclaim Fr. Robinson a heretic.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 07:45:37 PM »
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  • You fail to make the distinction between Formal Heretic and Material heretic. Robinson has been publicly warned by many individuals and continues to hold these heresies. So, the time is over to give the benefit of the doubt that he just a confused Catholic.
    Right.  One can be a heretic without (and before) the Church declaring them so.  Just like one can be guilty of murder before the trial ends and the jury decides.  Boru is way too legalistic on heresy.  Canon law has all sorts of spiritual penalties for heresy, even that which isn’t formal. 


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 07:47:25 PM »
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  • Publicly warned by whom? I have a battalion of Cathinfo posters calling moi a heretic too. Without the correct authority it means nothing. Moreover, only a belief that directly contravenes an Article of Faith, or that has been explicitly rejected by the Church, is labelled as actual "heresy." The confusion Fr. Robinson suffers from seems to stem from the confusion that the Church herself was/is suffering from; the subject matter is not a clear-cut article of faith.
    One of Fr Robinson’s relatives wrote a book and long time ago which was pro-creation and pro-egocentrism.  Fr has no excuse for his scientific heresies.  He knows the truth. 

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 07:50:49 PM »
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  • I know Fr. black very well; good friend of the family. But is Fr. Black his superior? Has Fr. Black ever been his superior? Also, you have not addressed my other point: 'Moreover, only a belief that directly contravenes an Article of Faith, or that has been explicitly rejected by the Church, is labelled as actual "heresy." The confusion Fr. Robinson suffers from seems to stem from the confusion that the Church herself was/is suffering from; the subject matter is not a clear-cut article of faith.'

    So yes, we have to wait for authority. We are not Protestants. We do not go around declaring as if we were Pope. We can say he skirts with heresy - what he teaches seems heretical - but we have no authority to proclaim Fr. Robinson a heretic.
    Martin Luther was a heretic LONG before he was excommunicated.  The “proclamation” you keep harping about is a legal thing.  It’s not wrong to call someone a heretic before the church decides it legally.  The judgment of the Church simply confirms what everyone already knew.  Just like a canonization confirms that everyone already knew person A was a saint.  

    Offline Boru

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 07:56:31 PM »
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  • Right.  One can be a heretic without (and before) the Church declaring them so.  Just like one can be guilty of murder before the trial ends and the jury decides.  Boru is way too legalistic on heresy.  Canon law has all sorts of spiritual penalties for heresy, even that which isn’t forma
    No. One is suspected of murder but no one is guilty until it goes to trial. You cannot go around labeling people murderers and heretics because YOU think they are guilty. And just as well. I'm sure all of you here would have me strung up, tarred and feathered, and burnt at the stake, if you had your way :laugh1:

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Fr. Robinson: It’s All Valid, Trust Us!
    « Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 08:09:01 PM »
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  • No. One is suspected of murder but no one is guilty until it goes to trial. You cannot go around labeling people murderers and heretics because YOU think they are guilty. And just as well. I'm sure all of you here would have me strung up, tarred and feathered, and burnt at the stake, if you had your way :laugh1:

    St. Bernard Clairvaux preached the need to end the Jєωιѕн Pope Anacletus schism and even joined a Catholic army to unseat him in Rome in 1138, long before the Church declared him an Anti-pope.

    You’re “wait for a schismatic newChurch or even Robinson’s  dishonest superiors to rule on him” doesn’t cut it.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi