Author Topic: Eleison Comments - How Discern part 2 (No. 541)  (Read 540 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 21421
  • Reputation: +18948/-81
  • Gender: Male
Eleison Comments - How Discern part 2 (No. 541)
« on: November 27, 2017, 12:53:35 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Number DXLI (541)
    November 25, 2017
    How Discern? – II
    How can I fight a strong and dangerous foe
    When the first thing about him I don’t know?

    After Joseph’s first question concerning confusion in the Church in general (cf. these “Comments” of last week), his second question concerned the Society of St Pius X in particular. Here it is:—
    You wrote last week that judged by their fruits, Vatican II was not Catholic, while Archbishop Lefebvre was. However, in the Society of St Pius X which he founded, there seems to have arisen a new way of thinking which one might articulate in a series of propositions. For example –
    1 However badly the Pope and bishops behave, they are still the valid authorities of the Church.
    2 Pope Francis may be a modernist, but he still has the power to bring the SSPX back into the Church.
    3 The Conciliar bishops are not all bad. They can have Christian reactions, show awareness of the Church crisis, defend Catholic morals in public, call for respect for God in the liturgy, show devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, and so on.
    4 An agreement with Rome can be envisaged as long as we are “accepted as we are.”
    5 We are at fault if we are systematically refusing any agreement whatsoever with Rome.
    6 It is more useful to speak of Archbishop Lefebvre’s piety than of his opposition to the Council.
    7 Better to be on good terms with the SSPX than to get on bad terms for the sake of fallible opinions.
    8 Conciliarists are indisciplined and disobedient. SSPXers need to be disciplined and obedient.
    In conclusion, given the complexity of the situation in which Catholics find themselves today, can members or followers of the Society be blamed for thinking along the lines of these propositions?
    Answer, it all depends on how much those members or followers know. For instance, older SSPXers knew that the Council was a new religion, and that therefore the Archbishop’s opposition to it was a m atter of Faith, intrinsically more important than piety, because how can there be piety without faith? Those veterans of the Society are much to blame (unless and until at last they react in public), because they are allowing what Joseph above calls “the new way of thinking” to take over the Archbishop’s Society, so that Society youngsters have that much less chance of grasping what is wrong with the eight propositions above. A new generation of Society priests is as pious as one could wish, but (always with exceptions) it is clueless as to the crisis now devastating the Church for more than half a century:—
    1 True, the Pope and bishops, according to appearances, seem to be the valid authorities of the Church, but their behaviour as to the Faith is so bad that many serious Catholics call in question that validity.
    2 Into what Church would the Pope bring the Newsociety? Into the Newchurch? “They have expelled me from the Newchurch?” said the “excommunicated ” Archbishop – “So what? I never belonged to it!”
    3 Indeed the Conciliar bishops are not all bad, but they are nearly all modernists, which means that many of them have lost their Catholic faith without even realising it. Modern man is so corrupt that when his Catholic religion is made to fit his modernity, he does not even realise that it is no longer Catholic.
    4 “Accepted as we are” was for the SSPX one thing in, say, 1987. It is quite another thing in 2017!
    5 If only Rome were to come back to the true Faith, there would be no further need for any agreement.
    6 Thanks be to God for the Archbishop’s piety also, but by far his most important quality was his faith.
    7 “Fallible opinions”? There is such a thing as truth! Has anybody of any importance in the Newsociety actually studied the documents of Vatican II? Do they deny it represents a new religion?
    8 SSPXers must be disciplined and obedient to what? To the new Conciliar man-centred religion?
    The problem with all of these propositions is that the SSPX was born in the thick of the great war being waged by the modern world on God, but since the Archbishop’s death in 1991, its leaders have lost all effective grip on who is waging that war, and how and why. Joseph, read “Pascendi,” again and again, until you fully grasp it!
    Kyrie eleison.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Offline cosmas

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 84
    • Reputation: +81/-10
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Eleison Comments - How Discern part 2 (No. 541)
    « Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 08:17:18 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I NEVER THOUGHT PIUS X WAS OUTSIDE THE CHURCH. TRUTH BE TOLD, THE NOVUS ORDO CHURCH HAS GONE INTO SCHISM. PIUS X SOCIETY HAS NOT GONE ANYWHERE. JUST CONTINUED FORWARD FROM HOW THE CHURCH HAS ALWAYS BEEN. NO NEED TO GO ANYWHERE ! NOVUS ORDO NEEDS TO COME BACK TO THE TRUE FAITH ! UNTIL THAT HAPPENS WE SHOULD KEEP THE DUST BRUSHED OFF OUR FEET AND KEEP MOVING FORWARD !


    Offline Incredulous

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3938
    • Reputation: +4908/-236
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Eleison Comments - How Discern part 2 (No. 541)
    « Reply #2 on: November 28, 2017, 10:58:59 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • But what if... the "Society" was founded with the intentions for it to be the Newchurch's controlled opposition ?

    There had to be an opposition... right  :confused:

    An religious order formed for the purpose of being used as the media opposition, is not an impossibility.

    Consider that Msgr. Fellay has behaved very much as the classic Marrano infiltrator.  
    A priest without scholarship, a handler of money, and an unlikely candidate for a bishopric.  
    And now, how many times has he reversed himself from +ABL's positions?

    And how many times did the SSPX use their own "home grown" theologians (Cekada, Lainsey, Robinson...etc.) to interpret Catholic dogmas, VII pronouncements (95% Catholic), and other Canons to the Order's advantage?  

    A post VII Order, "within" the conciliar Church, founded simply as a "pious union", now boasts to us: "We are Catholic tradition!".

    While the zionist Maximilian Krah is the smoking gun, it is not an impossibility that there have been Marranos within the SSPX from the beginning.s 
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Meg

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2540
    • Reputation: +1186/-1828
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Eleison Comments - How Discern part 2 (No. 541)
    « Reply #3 on: November 28, 2017, 11:08:16 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • But what if... the "Society" was founded with the intentions for it to be the Newchurch's controlled opposition  :confused:
    There had to be an opposition... right?

    An order formed for the purpose of being used as the media opposition, is not an impossibility.

    ----

    While the zionist Maximilian Krah is the smoking gun, it is not an impossibility that there have been Marranos within the SSPX from the beginning.

    I've sometimes wondered the same thing, though I'm uncomfortable with the idea. Bishop Fellay doesn't seem to care at all about what ABL stood for. 

    The Maximilian Krah situation is quite distressing; it's possible, I suppose, that a Krah-type person could have worked his way into the SSPX even when ABL was alive. I dunno. 

    Offline JPaul

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3834
    • Reputation: +3712/-278
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Eleison Comments - How Discern part 2 (No. 541)
    « Reply #4 on: November 28, 2017, 12:18:47 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • But what if... the "Society" was founded with the intentions for it to be the Newchurch's controlled opposition ?

    There had to be an opposition... right  :confused:

    An religious order formed for the purpose of being used as the media opposition, is not an impossibility.

    Consider that Msgr. Fellay has behaved very much as the classic Marrano infiltrator.  
    A priest without scholarship, a handler of money, and an unlikely candidate for a bishopric.  
    And now, how many times has he reversed himself from +ABL's positions?

    And how many times did the SSPX use their own "home grown" theologians (Cekada, Lainsey, Robinson...etc.) to interpret Catholic dogmas, VII pronouncements (95% Catholic), and other Canons to the Order's advantage?  

    A post VII Order, "within" the conciliar Church, founded simply as a "pious union", now boasts to us: "We are Catholic tradition!".

    While the zionist Maximilian Krah is the smoking gun, it is not an impossibility that there have been Marranos within the SSPX from the beginning.s
    Well it is difficult to pin down but it is a possibility. A group which will have all the trappings of Tradition seemingly to condemn the errors of the council, but not really.
    This goes back before there was trouble in "paradise" and includes Bishop Williamson who was actively trying to get back inside the SSPX until recently.  

    To date there has been no definitive condemnation of the council or of the New Mass, one where there is no walking back on these two hallmarks of revolution.
    Right about these theologians as well, they always come up with some reason about this or that which usually twists a theological concept to the breaking point.
    Who knows?


    Offline Incredulous

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3938
    • Reputation: +4908/-236
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Eleison Comments - How Discern part 2 (No. 541)
    « Reply #5 on: November 28, 2017, 12:42:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • On the outside, to the untrained eye, the SSPX looks good.




    But the only quality that matters in Heaven is their adherence and protection of the true Faith.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Kazimierz

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 379
    • Reputation: +373/-10
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Eleison Comments - How Discern part 2 (No. 541)
    « Reply #6 on: November 28, 2017, 01:22:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • On the outside, to the untrained eye, the SSPX looks good.




    But the only quality that matters in Heaven is their adherence and protection of the true Faith.
    This triggers a couple of songs that reflect this said reality:Walks like an angel, talks like an angel, but I got wise, she's just a devil in disguise. Secondly, she aint pretty she just looks that way.
    Plus what Our Lord said about being white sepulchres on the outside.....

    Offline Incredulous

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3938
    • Reputation: +4908/-236
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Eleison Comments - How Discern part 2 (No. 541)
    « Reply #7 on: November 28, 2017, 03:06:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This triggers a couple of songs that reflect this said reality:Walks like an angel, talks like an angel, but I got wise, she's just a devil in disguise. Secondly, she aint pretty she just looks that way.
    Plus what Our Lord said about being white sepulchres on the outside.....

    Yeah, plenty of delicious smelling incense and beautiful flowing cassocks.

    PS  I was told by the automated moderator, that I had reached my limit on "thumbing you up" ?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Kazimierz

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 379
    • Reputation: +373/-10
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Eleison Comments - How Discern part 2 (No. 541)
    « Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 09:26:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yeah, plenty of delicious smelling incense and beautiful flowing cassocks.

    PS  I was told by the automated moderator, that I had reached my limit on "thumbing you up" ?
    The gesture is appreciated notwithstanding  ;)

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16