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Author Topic: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?  (Read 5041 times)

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Offline Aleah

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Re: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2024, 03:19:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Merry on October 21, 2019, 01:33:23 PM
    So far there is no conclusion on Fr. Pieroni (Fr. Christopher Pieroni).  It turns out he has been asked about here on CathInfo a number of times!  The background is that he jumped from the Novus Ordo to tradition - but nowhere does it state he was conditionally re-ordained.  He has been with the SSPX for a few years.  Even Internet searches have nothing of fact to offer.  Just one person states they "thought" he had been re-ordained by Bishop Williamson.  This doubt may cause some trouble at the chapel he services. 
    I was around when he first started coming to tradition. I have never heard he was conditionally ordained. The last time he came to my current parish, my family refrained from the sacraments. The way he celebrated Mass was alarming.
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    Offline jersey60

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    Re: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?
    « Reply #16 on: April 07, 2024, 04:31:51 PM »
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    • His Prior is Fr. Vernoy
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?
    « Reply #17 on: April 07, 2024, 11:51:54 PM »
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    • What was “alarming” about how he celebrated Mass?

    It’s very sad when a Catholic must go for weeks, months, or years without Mass and Sacraments for fear of invalid priests.  During the c-sickness, I first heard of families taking matters in their own hands by doing lay baptisms, of infants, but also of older children and adults. I wasn’t comfortable with it until one of the adults died of it. (No 💉as it wasn’t yet available.)  Then there was the wedding with two Catholic witnesses, no priest.  I thought it was going too far, but when there was another wedding after parish refusal for over three years, making it a six year engagement, I changed my mind. 
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    Offline HeavyHanded

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    Re: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?
    « Reply #18 on: April 08, 2024, 07:49:31 AM »
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    • I believe Fr. Pieroni joined the society in 2011, so I think at that time they would have done their due diligence. 
    Father Pieroni catechized me and my wife, baptized my children and conditionally baptized us when we converted. I understand this is completely subjective and feeling have nothing to do with reality, but I can say after our renunciation of heresy and proclamation of faith when Father lifted our excommunication, I felt it in my soul. I know that’s not worth much and just my opinion. 
    Anyway, has anyone tried calling the priory, and asking him directly? 
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    Offline CatholicInAmerica

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    Re: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?
    « Reply #19 on: April 08, 2024, 09:30:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: HeavyHanded on April 08, 2024, 07:49:31 AM
    I believe Fr. Pieroni joined the society in 2011, so I think at that time they would have done their due diligence.
    Father Pieroni catechized me and my wife, baptized my children and conditionally baptized us when we converted. I understand this is completely subjective and feeling have nothing to do with reality, but I can say after our renunciation of heresy and proclamation of faith when Father lifted our excommunication, I felt it in my soul. I know that’s not worth much and just my opinion.
    Anyway, has anyone tried calling the priory, and asking him directly?
    I am unsure what you mean of the society doing “their due dilligence”. The new rite itself is doubtful, compound that with the fact the bishop who “ordained” him probably was “consecrated” in the new rite by another new rite bishop… the whole thing is just a mess. 
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?
    « Reply #20 on: April 08, 2024, 01:13:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: CatholicInAmerica on April 08, 2024, 09:30:19 AM
    I am unsure what you mean of the society doing “their due dilligence”. The new rite itself is doubtful, compound that with the fact the bishop who “ordained” him probably was “consecrated” in the new rite by another new rite bishop… the whole thing is just a mess.

    Yeah, the SSPX hold that the doubtfulness is almost entirely in the "intention", so they would "investigate" whether the ordaining/consecrating bishop likely had the right "intention" ... as if something that belongs to the internal forum is possible to "investigate".
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    Offline CatholicInAmerica

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    Re: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?
    « Reply #21 on: April 08, 2024, 01:34:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 08, 2024, 01:13:53 PM
    Yeah, the SSPX hold that the doubtfulness is almost entirely in the "intention", so they would "investigate" whether the ordaining/consecrating bishop likely had the right "intention" ... as if something that belongs to the internal forum is possible to "investigate".
    Absurd. 
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    Offline DustyActual

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    Re: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?
    « Reply #22 on: April 08, 2024, 01:56:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 08, 2024, 01:13:53 PM
    Yeah, the SSPX hold that the doubtfulness is almost entirely in the "intention", so they would "investigate" whether the ordaining/consecrating bishop likely had the right "intention" ... as if something that belongs to the internal forum is possible to "investigate".
    I think this view on the doubtfulness of the new rite based on the intention of the bishop led to them eventually softening their stance, because traditional sacramental theology says that you must presume that the minister has the proper intention unless proven otherwise. From what I have have read online, it seems that the SSPX of old treated the new rite as "doubtful until proven otherwise", and were more than happy to conditionally re-ordain novus ordo priests, with rare exceptions; On the other hand the SSPX of today seems to treat the new rite as "valid until proven otherwise", and now conditional re-ordinations are not that common anymore. So I think the original position of the SSPX on the new rite of ordination and episcopal consecration was not as a strong as the position taken by most sedevacantists today, which says that the new rites are doubtful or invalid because of the RITE itself not because of the intention.
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    Offline Comrade

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    Re: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?
    « Reply #23 on: April 08, 2024, 02:29:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: HeavyHanded on April 08, 2024, 07:49:31 AM
    I believe Fr. Pieroni joined the society in 2011, so I think at that time they would have done their due diligence.
    Father Pieroni catechized me and my wife, baptized my children and conditionally baptized us when we converted. I understand this is completely subjective and feeling have nothing to do with reality, but I can say after our renunciation of heresy and proclamation of faith when Father lifted our excommunication, I felt it in my soul. I know that’s not worth much and just my opinion.
    Anyway, has anyone tried calling the priory, and asking him directly?
    Most of these N.O priests do not give direct answer or get offended when asked. Whenever I meet a new one I always asked who ordain them, and then ask them in private about conditionally ordained. I don't argue the talking points to convince the new rite  but I do stress the today's crisis requires me to ask and, as practicing Catholic,  I deserve a yes or no answer. Until i do, I have to avoid them and seek the Sacraments elsewhere. But you are right you have to ask them directly.

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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Fr. Pieroni and Fr. Thomas truly ordained?
    « Reply #24 on: April 09, 2024, 12:26:13 AM »
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    • I cannot help you about these particular people, but my advice is:

    Every priest is invalid until proven otherwise. You cannot be too careful these days. Sadly.

    Any honest, serious priest would not be secretive about his ordination or conditional ordination (if it applies to his case). The same could be said about a prior or district superior about the people working under their authority.
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