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Author Topic: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.  (Read 17007 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2017, 11:48:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: happenby on December 04, 2017, 11:18:25 AM
    The sermon was a little shocking no doubt, but in this day and age, with cell phones, television, movies and general association with this society, the world is awash in those sins.  Evil can fill the world with sewage but Catholics can't address cleaning it up because its too dirty an issue? No wonder things are so bad. Catholics tippy-toe around the worse things and call it charity.  No doubt there are some people who manage to keep their kids completely innocent--good for them.  It is a noble thing, if not very rare.  Traditional Catholics often think they are doing that when they say they don't have a tv, but take their kids to movies. What hypocrisy! Look, I'm not fan of Pfeiffer either, but as a priest, he knows how pervasive this is in his confessional. If counsel in the confessional was working he probably wouldn't find a need to go rough.  Aren't we to go easy on the person and hard on the offense?  Word to the sensitive moms: if your kids hear something harsh, take them aside and explain it to them appropriate to their age and refuse to get scandalized.  Our Lady heard the worst things and she was more innocent than any kid.  Better to take opportunities to lessen harm then assume kids will never hear stuff you prefer they shouldn't.    

    Yeah, yeah, but you see, his talk was nothing but a rant.  It wasn't even all that helpful.  Going on a rant against masturbation ... while evoking crude language and images ... isn't going to help some poor kid overcome this sin.  Well, I don't know how YOU raise your kids, but my 7-year-old daughter doesn't need to hear a five-minute rant about about masturbation and self-abuse and then come home asking me what masturbation is.  I shouldn't need to "take [her] aside and explain [masturbation]" to her, and explain why a priest is ranting and raving about it in church.  He could ADDRESS THE SUBJECT DELICATELY so that it doesn't adversely affect the younger children but can still be of some help to those struggling with these sins.

    Plus Father Pfeiffer shows himself borderline deranged if he thinks that masturbation is the cause of losing your temper when someone cuts you off in traffic or if your coffee is cold.  Hopefully he's aware that there are SEVEN cardinal sins and that not every sin traces back to lust.

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    Traditional Catholics often think they are doing that when they say they don't have a tv, but take their kids to movies. What hypocrisy!

    This is just nonsense.  There's nothing intrinsically hypocritical about it.  I could not have a TV because I felt that too much TV was harmful psychologically (even secular psychologists admit this) and that most of the programming on TV is harmful ... but could occasionally find a movie that I felt was not harmful or dangerous to the children and go see it for entertainment.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #16 on: December 04, 2017, 11:52:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: happenby on December 04, 2017, 11:18:25 AM
    The sermon was a little shocking no doubt, but in this day and age, with cell phones, television, movies and general association with this society, the world is awash in those sins.  Evil can fill the world with sewage but Catholics can't address cleaning it up because its too dirty an issue? No wonder things are so bad. Catholics tippy-toe around the worse things and call it charity.  No doubt there are some people who manage to keep their kids completely innocent--good for them.  It is a noble thing, if not very rare.  Traditional Catholics often think they are doing that when they say they don't have a tv, but take their kids to movies. What hypocrisy! Look, I'm not fan of Pfeiffer either, but as a priest, he knows how pervasive this is in his confessional. If counsel in the confessional was working he probably wouldn't find a need to go rough.  Aren't we to go easy on the person and hard on the offense?  Word to the sensitive moms: if your kids hear something harsh, take them aside and explain it to them appropriate to their age and refuse to get scandalized.  Our Lady heard the worst things and she was more innocent than any kid.  Better to take opportunities to lessen harm then assume kids will never hear stuff you prefer they shouldn't.    
    But what about Our Lord happenby? The sanctuary candle is lit, so He is right there.

    I do not believe Fr.'s sermon is in any way pleasing to Our Lord. No way, no how.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Clavis David

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #17 on: December 04, 2017, 11:59:16 AM »
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    • Quote from: Croix de Fer on December 04, 2017, 07:42:12 AM
    If the listener feels scandalized by what was said by Fr. Pfeiffer in those specified times, the person might suffer some level of scrupulosity.

    I'm not a fan of Fr. Pfeiffer, but saying the words "masturbation", "self-abuse", "ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ", and "self-pleasure" is not inappropriate or madness, considering he is warning people about these sins.
    Souls are falling into hell by the millions for these same sins. Didn't Our Lady speak of this vice of lust being the most dominate sin that send souls to hell in our modern time? Sometimes it needs to be said in the most embarrassing terms to stop the grave sins that control and damn most lives.

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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #18 on: December 04, 2017, 11:59:49 AM »
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    • I haven't watched the sermon, and don't really want to.

    I recall a sermon that a FSSP priest gave a few years back. Hopefully I'm remembering the sermon correctly. He said that a person generally suffers from the sins of the flesh, or from pride. There are two basic categories that a person falls in to. They are usually trying to overcome sins of the flash, or of pride. I don't recall if the said that there is a crossing-over between the categories, but I assume that there would be. He said that the sins of pride (which includes anger) are more difficult to over come than the sins of the flesh. 

    Maybe Father Pfeiffer is basing his sermon on what he has heard in the confessional. But I think that Priests aren't really supposed to directly address problems (by way of the pulpit) that they have heard in confidence in the confessional. Maybe I'm wrong about that. 

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #19 on: December 04, 2017, 12:02:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Clavis David on December 04, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
    Sometimes it needs to be said in the most embarrassing terms to stop the grave sins that control and damn most lives.

    No.  No it doesn't.

    So, where does it stop, eh?  To discourage fornication I'm going to talk about how all guys these days want to do is to [expletive] girls?
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #20 on: December 04, 2017, 12:13:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on December 04, 2017, 11:59:49 AM
    Maybe Father Pfeiffer is basing his sermon on what he has heard in the confessional. But I think that Priests aren't really supposed to directly address problems (by way of the pulpit) that they have heard in confidence in the confessional. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
    You're not wrong Meg - he is supposed to be a priest speaking for Christ, not a bar fly, he is in the presence of Our Lord, not auditioning for a TV program. There are many better and more prudent ways to say what he said, and I only listened to about 15 seconds.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #21 on: December 04, 2017, 12:16:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: happenby on December 04, 2017, 12:13:29 PM
    I know, I get it.  It was definitely a brazen sermon, I just wonder whether it isn't necessary to wake people up and get them out of their snoozing.  
    Well it would have done that real well I bet lol.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #22 on: December 04, 2017, 12:19:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 04, 2017, 12:02:57 PM
    No.  No it doesn't.

    So, where does it stop, eh?  To discourage fornication I'm going to talk about how all guys these days want to do is to [expletive] girls?
    Expletives are different than technical terms and never ok, and even some technical terms should not be mentioned at Mass.  Modesty necessarily includes the least of those who might be offended, and it was pretty strong language of Father, but honestly, short of expletives and certain technical terminology, priests need to go after the bad behavior in a way that stuff is specifically mentioned, lest some people find the excuse that it was never specifically mentioned.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #23 on: December 04, 2017, 12:28:33 PM »
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    • The culture/society is constantly changing.  What was extreme sin 10-20 years ago is 'normal' nowadays.  The world is awash in impurity and it needs to be discussed openly.  The devil loves souls being on a island, fighting alone and fighting silently.  It's easy for adults to forget the hormonal choas of young adults and how acute their temptations are.

    In regards to young children hearing this sermon, I agree that it might create work for parents to explain certain topics, but even if he didn't mention certain topics, children are more exposed than we think - magazines at grocery stores, billboard ads on the highway, radio commercials (not even talking about tv, movies, internet, etc).  That is, unless you live off the grid, 100 miles from nobody else.  Children can understand these sins on a lesser level, in my opinion.  Children would also miss a lot of what Fr talked about.

    I agree that Fr could've been more 'eloquent' but I don't like to critique a sermon (let's remember that priest's are given graces to preach) unless the topic is repetitive and talked about sunday after sunday.  Even then, not sure it's my place to critique.

    I absolutely agree with his diagnosis on the root cause of selfishness (in our day) being purity.  It's not the only cause, but, by and large, it's the main one.
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    Offline stgobnait

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #24 on: December 04, 2017, 12:29:18 PM »
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    • Certainly not, I would have been mortified, and such things should never be spoken of in mixed company,  delicacy  demands it.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #25 on: December 04, 2017, 12:40:15 PM »
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    Certainly not, I would have been mortified, and such things should never be spoken of in mixed company,  delicacy  demands it.
    I get what you're saying but we don't live in the 50s anymore!  We don't even live in the 80s (which were quite tame, compared to now).  There are tvs EVERYWHERE.  Ads everywhere.  Video games everywhere.  By and large, delicacy, decency and morality are GONE in today's world.

    We must put ourselves in the place of the youth - what are they exposed to?  More than us, in our childhood.  Youth today discuss ѕυιcιdє, drugs and depression like many of us discussed our childhood "problems" of having a pimple on picture day, sneaking a beer on christmas, and being bored.  It's night and day different.  Most children are exposed to adult sins, therefore sermons need to address these problems.

    As old as Fr is, I don't think he's being rash.  If anything, he's being proactive.  Most adults are naive as to how society's sin can creep into their families.  
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #26 on: December 04, 2017, 12:54:51 PM »
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    • I'm not sure some of these reactions aren't a bit overblown:

    The subject is a delicate one, and could have been handled/delivered more delicately, for sure.

    But its not as if he was describing how self-abuse is done, or giving graphic details, or placing people into proximate occasions of sin, etc.

    Ladislaus's point about some in the audience now having to explain to their 7 yr-old daughters what "m" is seems legit; others who observed the subject matter (if it was going to be delivered to a general audience from the pulpit), should have been done in such a way as to remain over the heads of the young, also seems legit.

    But observing Fr. Pfeiffer's cantankerous nature, and turning it back around on him to imply he too must be suffering from the cause of violence, according to the premise of his sermon, was way over the top (and a sin).  That kind of humor is not Catholic.

    Even the points about the coffee and traffic cut-offs are not so out of place as some suggest: The point was not that SA causes you to snap from cold coffee or getting cut-off, but that an habitual practice of SA (or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity) makes one a violent person (and therefore more habitually prone to continued acts of violence, such as the two examples he gave).

    Dr. David Allen White once gave a conference at the seminary in Winona in which he observed that Dante (who was no madman) placed both the usurers and the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs in the circle of the violent (i.e., ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity was a violent act).  The reason was because the usurer does violence against nature by making that which should be barren (i.e., money) fruitful, whereas the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ does violence against nature by making that which is fruitful barren [as does SA].

    I believe Fr. Pfeiffer was trying to make a similar argument, though again, the delivery left something to be desired.

    At the end of the day, yes, I would have come away angry had my children been exposed to the delivery of that sermon.

    But the theory in itself (i.e., people who are mired in sins of violence become violent people, just as people consistently practicing any particular virtue become virtuous in that regard) is not so far out as some make it.

    Don't confuse the message for the delivery.

    And this is coming from me, mind you!
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline stgobnait

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #27 on: December 04, 2017, 01:12:15 PM »
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    • Precisely the point that is being made, lack of delicacy, we are not all shrinking violets in this day and age, but we can recognize when something is appropriate or not.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #28 on: December 04, 2017, 01:29:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: happenby on December 04, 2017, 12:19:20 PM
    Expletives are different than technical terms and never ok, and even some technical terms should not be mentioned at Mass. 

    This was in response to someone who stated that these subjects should be brought up "in the most embarrassing terms".  So I asked where the line was ... giving the example of an expletive.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Pfeiffer gone mad? VERY Inappropriate sermon.
    « Reply #29 on: December 04, 2017, 01:30:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: stgobnait on December 04, 2017, 12:29:18 PM
    Certainly not, I would have been mortified, and such things should never be spoken of in mixed company,  delicacy  demands it.

    I would have walked my children out of there and probably said something out loud to Father while walking out.
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