Author Topic: Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer  (Read 24812 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
« on: March 13, 2013, 11:55:03 AM »
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  • If you don't normally listen to ALL the Resistance sermons, that's fine.

    But you should listen to this one, as it's one of those major ones you should listen to.

    At 1:00:20, Fr. Pfeiffer says we shouldn't attend SSPX Masses any longer.

    Before you come to any conclusions, listen to the whole sermon. I thought he was extreme, too, before I listened to the sermon.

    According to Fr. Pfeiffer, this leaked "Doctrinal Preamble" is a new level of certainty or proof that the SSPX is embracing downright Modernism, a heresy.

    How long can you attend a chapel under an organization that believes what the SSPX now officially believes? It's a good question.

    He makes the good point that even without an Agreement with Rome, +Fellay still made a statement of belief with this Doctrinal Preamble -- it's what he was ready to sign! So the changes have happened. They are real and in the past tense. And they are not minor.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 12:04:37 PM »
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  • Yes, most priests are just weak and going along for the ride. But that's what happened at Vatican II, remember? Most priests weren't Freemasons or "plants" pushing for the destruction of the Church. They were just weak men who went along with the changes, worried about their livelihood, health insurance, and pensions.

    All members of the SSPX might not have changed, or embraced modernism yet. It might not have percolated down to every chapel.

    But the FACT is that the official SSPX position has changed, in favor of Modernism.

    The SSPX officially accepts the New Mass, not only its validity but also the legitimacy of its promulgation! That is ridiculous.

    The Novus Ordo is a bastard (Latin: spure) rite that was made up from scratch. It was not organic. The Catholic Church doesn't create liturgies that way. Even Our Lord and the Apostles took elements from the Old Testament liturgy for the Last Supper, ancient Christian liturgies, etc.

    And the Church violated Quo Primum when she completely did away with the Tridentine Mass in 1970. Legitimate promulgation? No way!
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    Offline Cristera

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 12:10:04 PM »
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  • Please, could anyone make a transcription? At least of the principal points...
    To promote it on spanish.

    Thanks my friends.

    Offline Militia Jesu

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 12:44:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew


    If you don't normally listen to ALL the Resistance sermons, that's fine.

    But you should listen to this one, as it's one of those major ones you should listen to.

    At 1:00:20, Fr. Pfeiffer says we shouldn't attend SSPX Masses any longer.

    Before you come to any conclusions, listen to the whole sermon. I thought he was extreme, too, before I listened to the sermon.

    According to Fr. Pfeiffer, this leaked "Doctrinal Preamble" is a new level of certainty or proof that the SSPX is embracing downright Modernism, a heresy.

    How long can you attend a chapel under an organization that believes what the SSPX now officially believes? It's a good question.

    He makes the good point that even without an Agreement with Rome, +Fellay still made a statement of belief with this Doctrinal Preamble -- it's what he was ready to sign! So the changes have happened. They are real and in the past tense. And they are not minor.


    I'm glad you're coming to this conclusion, Matthew.

    That is why we should have a 'resistance' Mass around every single neo-SSPX parish; or even a resistance without a Mass for the time being.

    God does not require of us the impossible, if the 'traditional' mass you have near you also accepts being under the authority of the local bishops, the new mass, Religious Liberty, Gaudium Spes, etc., you should (must) take action.

    God will provide!

    Offline Militia Jesu

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 12:50:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Yes, most priests are just weak and going along for the ride. But that's what happened at Vatican II, remember? Most priests weren't Freemasons or "plants" pushing for the destruction of the Church. They were just weak men who went along with the changes, worried about their livelihood, health insurance, and pensions.

    All members of the SSPX might not have changed, or embraced modernism yet. It might not have percolated down to every chapel.

    But the FACT is that the official SSPX position has changed, in favor of Modernism.

    The SSPX officially accepts the New Mass, not only its validity but also the legitimacy of its promulgation! That is ridiculous.

    The Novus Ordo is a bastard (Latin: spure) rite that was made up from scratch. It was not organic. The Catholic Church doesn't create liturgies that way. Even Our Lord and the Apostles took elements from the Old Testament liturgy for the Last Supper, ancient Christian liturgies, etc.

    And the Church violated Quo Primum when she completely did away with the Tridentine Mass in 1970. Legitimate promulgation? No way!


    Very wise input from you again. Thank you!

    For those who are weaker and/or uncertain I couldn't recommend enough the Open Letter of Fr. Cardozo.


    Offline s2srea

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 12:51:17 PM »
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  • Has Bishop Williamson addressed this issue? I haven't' listened to the video yet, but I, prematurely perhaps, would feel more comfortable hearing his thoughts on this. From what I gathered (from your writings), this is a potentially dangerous situation on either side of the situation.

    Offline For Greater Glory

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 01:00:41 PM »
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  • Thank you Matthew,
         I now believe I can say this. Fr. Pfeiffer told me on the phone, two or three weeks ago to not go back to the chapel. He said the the teaching of the SSPX has changed and it's going to trickle down.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 01:06:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    According to Fr. Pfeiffer, this leaked "Doctrinal Preamble" is a new level of certainty or proof ...


    I don't think he actually said that, although I doubt he'd disagree.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...


    Offline nipr

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 01:10:38 PM »
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  • For a more detailed explanation of the change in the Society's orientation and agenda and the dangers it poses for the laity, watch/listen to/read the transcript of the talk by Frs. Pfeiffer and Hewko at the Kentucky conference last December.  


    Offline nipr

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 01:20:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: For Greater Glory
    Thank you Matthew,
         I now believe I can say this. Fr. Pfeiffer told me on the phone, two or three weeks ago to not go back to the chapel. He said the the teaching of the SSPX has changed and it's going to trickle down.


    Bishop Williamson in one of his ECs some months ago said that attending a Society chapel is a "yellow light" situation--proceed with caution.  

    When Fr. Pfeiffer visited Sanford, Florida in January he told the people that Sanford is a "red light"--they could NOT go back to the chapel because the situation is so bad there. -- See the thread about SSPX priests going to amusements parks to get an idea of some of the things that are happening there.  

    Offline Militia Jesu

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 01:40:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: nipr
    Quote from: For Greater Glory
    Thank you Matthew,
         I now believe I can say this. Fr. Pfeiffer told me on the phone, two or three weeks ago to not go back to the chapel. He said the the teaching of the SSPX has changed and it's going to trickle down.


    Bishop Williamson in one of his ECs some months ago said that attending a Society chapel is a "yellow light" situation--proceed with caution.  

    When Fr. Pfeiffer visited Sanford, Florida in January he told the people that Sanford is a "red light"--they could NOT go back to the chapel because the situation is so bad there. -- See the thread about SSPX priests going to amusements parks to get an idea of some of the things that are happening there.  


    Bishop Williamson has also given a red light in regards to St. Thomas More - Sanford, FL with Fr. Marc Vernoy.

    No wonder why, really.


    Offline MaterDominici

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 08:25:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cristera
    Please, could anyone make a transcription? At least of the principal points...
    To promote it on spanish.

    Thanks my friends.


    beginning at 58:23

    What is interesting, and what is much more grave, is not that Bp Fellay is betraying Catholic Faith and Catholic Tradition by his actions, by his teachings.

    Whether he personally believes these things, only God knows, but what he is doing is objectively treasonous and wicked. Therefore, it must be condemned because it is doing harm to souls. It is damaging the Faith of souls therefore, it must be condemned.

    But what is more serious, much more serious, is the fact that if priests don’t stand up in horror at this grave error published before our very eyes – admitted by Fr Thouvenot and by Bp Fellay to be true and correct documents… truly handed out, by Bp Fellay and the superiors to Modernist Rome – then it means there is a grave crisis of Faith in the Society that is in the deepest bones and marrow of our Society and therefore the priests, by their silence, give consent. And the priests by their standing behind Bp Fellay, Fr Rostand, and the other superiors in this wickedness – I’m not talking about wickedness of action, wickedness of morals, we’re talking about wickedness of doctrine. By standing behind them in this wickedness, they are guilty. They are not innocent.

    Fr ??, the 76-year-old priest told us in Brazil. We vsisited him, Fr Hewko and I, last month in Brazil. [He is the] head of a monastery in Brazil. They are guilty, and therefore, it is not correct for those who know the truth to continue to attend Society of St. Pius X mainstream Masses. By attending these Masses, it shows that we are in union, it’s called communicatio in sacris, we are in communion with their doctrine. We are in communion with their practice.

    It is not the same as the Sacrament of Confession. The Sacrament of Confession is an individual Sacrament in which the individual priest operates as a minister of God to absolve the sins of an individual sinner. So, you can go to Confession to any valid priest.

    But with regard to the communicatio in sacris it is a public act of worship. When you attend the Mass of someone whom you know does not promote the Catholic Faith, that is wrong. Remember that before Vatican II, the heretics said the same Latin Mass as the Catholics. It is only after Vatican II that heretics said a different Mass. Even Martin Luther, when he first became a Lutheran, started his false religion, said the Latin Mass. John Calvin? Latin Mass. Henry VIII attended the Latin Mass.

    The Latin Mass was there in the beginning of all these heresies. Only later did they invent a new false worship to go along with their false belief. So, likewise, Fr Rostand – you should watch his interview, four parts, the music is beautiful, after that is goes downhill. But in his interview, he is asked about the hybrid Mass. And, remember, it is his man, Jim Vogel, interviewing himself, in an edited and controlled interview. This isn’t like a CNN reporter or a reporter from the Globe magazine or something … somebody trying the get the movie star off guard or something. This is a controlled interview and what is he saying?

    [Q:] “Maybe people are saying that the Society will accept the new version or the hybrid Mass. What do you say about that?”

    There are two appropriate answers, one is “yes” and the other is “no”. He gives neither answer. What does he say? He says, well, we insisted on rights that we preserve the 1962… that we have the right to say the 1962 liturgy. We want to say the 1962 liturgy, and we believe, with Archbishop Lefebvre, that that is the most prudential way.

    The beautiful virtue of prudence. It’s the biggest virtue there is now. It used to be faith, hope, and charity and justice, temperance, and fortitude were other virtues. But, now those virtues taken together make up about 1/1000th of virtue and the other 999/1000th of virtue equals prudence. And what is prudence? Prudence is to do whatever the dictator commands in all things except for explicit heresy and explicit sin. That’s the new definition of prudence. It’s a matter of prudence. Go with whatever they decide.

    There are some things that are a matter of prudence that are not according to whatever they decide. You can say it’s a matter of prudence whether you have steak or whether you have chicken or whether you have pork with your vegetables. It’s a matter of prudence, it doesn’t matter which one you choose. It’s also a matter of prudence whether or not you drive down the right side of the road or the left side of the road. It’s a matter of prudence. They’re both matters of prudence, but if you drive down the left side of the road – except when you’re in that idiotic place called England (laugh) – you are going to have a problem. And that act of prudence is going to get you in jail if you live and going to get you dead with a messed up car if you don’t. Your death might not be a big loss, but the car would be expensive (laugh). But it’s a matter of prudence.

    And somehow they say if it’s a matter of prudence, then it’s really only whatever they decide. This is false. We’re dealing not with a matter of prudence, we’re dealing with a matter of faith. We’re not dealing with a matter of obedience or disobedience, we’re dealing with a matter of faith. And, the only way we’re dealing with obedience is we are obliged to obey God rather than men, obliged to obey the Faith rather than that which is against the Faith and when the Superior goes against the Faith or endangers the Faith, he must be disobeyed under the pain of sin. And, if you don’t disobey him and you know the truth, you are guilty. If you obey him and you do not know, then you are not guilty, but if you do know and you obey, you are guilty.

    Many innocent souls go to the New Mass every day and they will go straight to heaven when they die. Many innocent souls go to the Fraternity of St. Peter and the Ecclesia Dei Masses because they see it as better than the others or it just happens to be the Mass they prefer to go to for whatever reason. And they don’t know and they will go to heaven when they die. And now, many innocent souls are following the wickedness of the new direction of Bp Fellay and the Society of St. Pius X’s new doctrinal direction away from the Catholic Faith. And this, what they do innocently, they will save their souls, but if they have a mind and they must study the truth and if they know the truth and they still follow, then they are in danger. And we must study the truth. We must know the truth. We must condemn the errors and we cannot follow the foolishness of the modern teaching.

    In any case, we have to decide whether we’re standing for the truth or not. It is time to decide who is on the Lord’s side or not. God bless you all.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Cristera

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 08:43:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    Quote from: Cristera
    Please, could anyone make a transcription? At least of the principal points...
    To promote it on spanish.

    Thanks my friends.


    beginning at 58:23

    What is interesting, and what is much more grave, is not that Bp Fellay is betraying Catholic Faith and Catholic Tradition by his actions, by his teachings.

    Whether he personally believes these things, only God knows, but what he is doing is objectively treasonous and wicked. Therefore, it must be condemned because it is doing harm to souls. It is damaging the Faith of souls therefore, it must be condemned.

    But what is more serious, much more serious, is the fact that if priests don’t stand up in horror at this grave error published before our very eyes – admitted by Fr Thouvenot and by Bp Fellay to be true and correct documents… truly handed out, by Bp Fellay and the superiors to Modernist Rome – then it means there is a grave crisis of Faith in the Society that is in the deepest bones and marrow of our Society and therefore the priests, by their silence, give consent. And the priests by their standing behind Bp Fellay, Fr Rostand, and the other superiors in this wickedness – I’m not talking about wickedness of action, wickedness of morals, we’re talking about wickedness of doctrine. By standing behind them in this wickedness, they are guilty. They are not innocent.

    Fr ??, the 76-year-old priest told us in Brazil. We vsisited him, Fr Hewko and I, last month in Brazil. [He is the] head of a monastery in Brazil. They are guilty, and therefore, it is not correct for those who know the truth to continue to attend Society of St. Pius X mainstream Masses. By attending these Masses, it shows that we are in union, it’s called communicatio in sacris, we are in communion with their doctrine. We are in communion with their practice.

    It is not the same as the Sacrament of Confession. The Sacrament of Confession is an individual Sacrament in which the individual priest operates as a minister of God to absolve the sins of an individual sinner. So, you can go to Confession to any valid priest.

    But with regard to the communicatio in sacris it is a public act of worship. When you attend the Mass of someone whom you know does not promote the Catholic Faith, that is wrong. Remember that before Vatican II, the heretics said the same Latin Mass as the Catholics. It is only after Vatican II that heretics said a different Mass. Even Martin Luther, when he first became a Lutheran, started his false religion, said the Latin Mass. John Calvin? Latin Mass. Henry VIII attended the Latin Mass.

    The Latin Mass was there in the beginning of all these heresies. Only later did they invent a new false worship to go along with their false belief. So, likewise, Fr Rostand – you should watch his interview, four parts, the music is beautiful, after that is goes downhill. But in his interview, he is asked about the hybrid Mass. And, remember, it is his man, Jim Vogel, interviewing himself, in an edited and controlled interview. This isn’t like a CNN reporter or a reporter from the Globe magazine or something … somebody trying the get the movie star off guard or something. This is a controlled interview and what is he saying?

    [Q:] “Maybe people are saying that the Society will accept the new version or the hybrid Mass. What do you say about that?”

    There are two appropriate answers, one is “yes” and the other is “no”. He gives neither answer. What does he say? He says, well, we insisted on rights that we preserve the 1962… that we have the right to say the 1962 liturgy. We want to say the 1962 liturgy, and we believe, with Archbishop Lefebvre, that that is the most prudential way.

    The beautiful virtue of prudence. It’s the biggest virtue there is now. It used to be faith, hope, and charity and justice, temperance, and fortitude were other virtues. But, now those virtues taken together make up about 1/1000th of virtue and the other 999/1000th of virtue equals prudence. And what is prudence? Prudence is to do whatever the dictator commands in all things except for explicit heresy and explicit sin. That’s the new definition of prudence. It’s a matter of prudence. Go with whatever they decide.

    There are some things that are a matter of prudence that are not according to whatever they decide. You can say it’s a matter of prudence whether you have steak or whether you have chicken or whether you have pork with your vegetables. It’s a matter of prudence, it doesn’t matter which one you choose. It’s also a matter of prudence whether or not you drive down the right side of the road or the left side of the road. It’s a matter of prudence. They’re both matters of prudence, but if you drive down the left side of the road – except when you’re in that idiotic place called England (laugh) – you are going to have a problem. And that act of prudence is going to get you in jail if you live and going to get you dead with a messed up car if you don’t. Your death might not be a big loss, but the car would be expensive (laugh). But it’s a matter of prudence.

    And somehow they say if it’s a matter of prudence, then it’s really only whatever they decide. This is false. We’re dealing not with a matter of prudence, we’re dealing with a matter of faith. We’re not dealing with a matter of obedience or disobedience, we’re dealing with a matter of faith. And, the only way we’re dealing with obedience is we are obliged to obey God rather than men, obliged to obey the Faith rather than that which is against the Faith and when the Superior goes against the Faith or endangers the Faith, he must be disobeyed under the pain of sin. And, if you don’t disobey him and you know the truth, you are guilty. If you obey him and you do not know, then you are not guilty, but if you do know and you obey, you are guilty.

    Many innocent souls go to the New Mass every day and they will go straight to heaven when they die. Many innocent souls go to the Fraternity of St. Peter and the Ecclesia Dei Masses because they see it as better than the others or it just happens to be the Mass they prefer to go to for whatever reason. And they don’t know and they will go to heaven when they die. And now, many innocent souls are following the wickedness of the new direction of Bp Fellay and the Society of St. Pius X’s new doctrinal direction away from the Catholic Faith. And this, what they do innocently, they will save their souls, but if they have a mind and they must study the truth and if they know the truth and they still follow, then they are in danger. And we must study the truth. We must know the truth. We must condemn the errors and we cannot follow the foolishness of the modern teaching.

    In any case, we have to decide whether we’re standing for the truth or not. It is time to decide who is on the Lord’s side or not. God bless you all.



    MANY, MANY THANKS DEAR MATER DOMINICI! GOD BLESS YOU!  :cheers:

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013, 09:00:42 PM »
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  • How long has Fr Pfeiffer been of this opinion? Is this new or has he said before (publicly) that those who know should not attend the SSPX?
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Matthew

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    Fr Pfeiffer - Do not attend SSPX any longer
    « Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 09:06:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim

    Bishop Williamson, Fr Ringrose, etc. say otherwise.

    Another observation:

    Fr Pfeiffer seems not to consider that there are those of us unwilling to turn the SSPX over to the accordistas, whereas he would have us run out the back door because accordistas are coming in the front.

    How has a war ever been won by surrendering?

    Just a couple thoughts.


    That's not the issue I have.

    What happened to, "It's a valid Tridentine Mass"?

    Didn't the SSPX used to counsel people to attend FSSP Masses when necessary? And the FSSP charter (what they stand for, officially promulgate, etc.) certainly isn't the best of the Trad groups.

    And going by Fr Pfeiffer's advice, no Sede should ever attend an SSPX Mass and vice-versa.

    Last but not least, I stand much more horrified at the prospect of Home-alone Catholicism. I have thought about this often and deeply, including observing those who have chosen this path. Let's just say I consider Home-alone-ism to be one step above going to your local Novus Ordo -- or maybe tied for last place, I'm not sure which.

    Maybe it's because I have children.

    One can't underestimate the damage done to children by not attending PUBLIC Masses. The kids grow up thinking "church" is a family thing -- so when Johnny starts to be a teenager, and starts seeing himself as an individual -- he might be tempted to throw the whole thing away -- family AND Catholicism.

    Catholicism should be part of the public sphere, not just the family sphere -- and least of all should it be something just for the individual sphere.

    So that's where I disagree.

    On the other hand, he makes some good points.

    An SSPX priest can't just stay part of the Fourth Reich, the Machine, etc. as long as he's "not expected to preach outright heresy, and not expected to say the Novus Ordo Missae". I think there's a point BEFORE that when it's time to go -- to stand and be counted, to stand up for the truth and trust that God will take care of you.

    He makes a good case -- but when it comes down to it, attending an SSPX Mass or not in March, 2013 is a question of prudence.


    How's that for ironic? (for those who have heard the sermon -- Fr. spoke about prudence quite a bit)
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