Author Topic: Fr. Niklaus Pflugers letter to Bishop Williamson (Read 22870 times)

Ethelred · « **Reply #80 on:** April 17, 2013, 04:00:12 PM »

Now some technical boring details. Uninterested readers, please skip it. :-)

Quote

but the Creator Property in a .docx file is set by Microsoft Word to indicate what application created the docuмent, NOT who the author is.

No, sir. MS-Word or Open-/Libreoffice or any other Office application which can write MS-Word files, uses the docuмent file's "created by" property to set the author who created the file, and the time-stamp when he did so.

During the installation process of Office applications (or for some: when a user starts the application for the very first time), they typically ask for the first and last name, initials, company, and several other Office properties.
Smart administrators, companies, schools or smart users set these properties on a per-user basis. So actually every user on a multi-user computer can have his own name in a typical Office's configuration.

Either way, once you create a new docuмent file -- no matter if it's an OpenDocuмent, a ".doc" Word or a ".docx" Word file -- the Office application writes these name, company, etc user properties into the docuмent file's properties.
And this is the whole idea of these Office file properties, so that when several authors work on the same docuмent file (at different times), you nicely see who created and who changed what and when.

I did just check it in practice with an Open-/Libreoffice installation for several users on a single machine, and indeed the Office file's properties say in my native language (translated on-the-fly to English): "Created on: 17 April 2013, 21:35:00, <My First Name, My Last Name>".
And when you open the Pfluger-Letter, you see the very same properties dialogue and it says: "Created on: 6 Jan 2011, 16:29:00, MK28".
And you open the docProps folder of that ".docx" zip file, and in the core.xml there's these meta informations like author ("MK28" in our case), saving time-stamp, etc, as it should be according to the "Office Open XML" Wiki.

Now, VinniF, or somebody else, please repeat these steps with your Office installation -- provided your Office's name, initials etc properties are not empty -- in order to verify that indeed the user's Office name/initials properties go rightly into a created Office docuмent file. No "tampering" needed. And no "forgery" needed. Just save-as, close, and open-file menu.

VinnyF · « **Reply #81 on:** April 17, 2013, 04:00:48 PM »

Quote from: ServusSpiritusSancti

Quote from: VinnyF
Quote from: ServusSpiritusSancti
Quote from: VinnyF
Quote from: ServusSpiritusSancti
Quote from: VinnyF
Quote from: John Grace
Is it all "internet rumour", VinnyF? You probably think it is.

John,

Why is it that when one exposes a potentially fabricated docuмent which has probably been altered to appear to nicely fit into a popular conspiracy theory, your first reaction is not "lets get to the truth" .. but rather "curse you for exposing the fabrication?"

Boy, Menzingen sure has you fooled, don't they?

I am just an engineer and it appears that someone tampered with a docuмent to ostensibly make it fit into the conspiracy. This entire thread was based on the great detective work that seemed to prove that this docuмent was purportedly written by Max and sent to Fr. Pfluger for publication. So if it turns out that this "proof" was fabricated, I wonder why and who would have to gain from it?

Read the (numerous) parts of the letter that kiss up to the Jews and compare them to Krah's comments about the Jews last year. The pro-Jєωιѕн junk in the letter sounds like something Krah would write.

I am not debating that. Your premise is that it sounds just like Krah and the original posting in this thread is that the "smoking gun" had been discovered buried in the header of this docuмent that absolutely linked it to Krah. And I am telling you that the "smoking gun" evidence was fabricated - that's all, just stating a fact.

Yeah, and Bishop Fellay is doing nothing wrong, the letter of the 37 French priests to Bishop Fellay was a hoax, Archbishop Lefebvre would have wanted a deal with Rome, etc.

The problem is, none of the above are facts, they're all lies. So where is your proof that the smoking gun provided by Ethelred is a "fabrication"? If you have no proof (and it seems to me that it is just your opinion) then it's not a fact.

Serv,

The only proof I have is provided by Microsoft and the docuмentation, again, on-line and accessible to everybody, that clearly states how the Creator tag is populated.

I am also sorry if I gave the impression, in clarifying how Microsoft Word works, and how it rarely, if ever puts MK28 in the Creator tag regardless of how you log on or respond to internet boards, that Bishop Fellay is doing nothing wrong or that the letter of the 37 anonymous French priests is a hoax.

Ethelred · « **Reply #82 on:** April 17, 2013, 04:01:26 PM »

Quote

If the Creator Property says MK28, it was purposely modified by someone,

No, and everybody can verify it by creating an own Office docuмent, close it, reload it and examine the the file's properties: shows the verify-er's Office user's name, save time, etc.

Since the "created by" property in the Pfluger-Letter says "MK28", the logical conclusion is that on the computer which was used to create this docuмent -- let's name this computer Maxxielaptop for a moment -- either the administrator set the Office's name/initials property to "MK28" during the installation of the Office application, or a Windows user who created this letter file on the Maxxielaptop set the Office's initials property to "MK28" once.

Now "coincidentally" these initials "MK28" are also Krah Internet pseudonym used to post his many hundreds of articles on German Internet forums, when he started doing so at the age of 28. Of course this is no 100% proof because really some other friends of Fr Pfluger could also use these initials "MK28". But it's a good indication.

Ethelred · « **Reply #83 on:** April 17, 2013, 04:02:41 PM »

Quote

I am not aware of how MS Word would ever pull ones 'internet handle' and embed it in a word doc.

Nobody here said what you suggest. It's a straw-man. Are you really serious?

The administrator or user of the computer Maxxielaptop did enter that property "MK28" at or after the installation of Office, not some magic "pull Internet handle application".
And how did that "Columbia Business School" property came into the Pfluger-Letter? Well, because apparently the Maxxielaptop is Krah's school laptop with a school's Office installation.

And why did this mysterious user on the Maxxielaptop use these initials "MK28" for his Office initials? Because most Windows users use their great name or initials everywhere: for their Windows user names, for their Amazon accounts, for their Cathinfo user names, for their Skype, etc etc. Bad habit, really, but most people do it anyway.

And that's the "secret" of that "MK28" bit in the Pfluger-Letter. Nobody needed to tamper with this letter.

And yes, bad habit to send Office files. You wouldn't do it, you say. I don't do it. But most users do it anyway. But why don't you know that?

ultrarigorist · « **Reply #84 on:** April 17, 2013, 04:23:08 PM »

Quote from: Ethelred

Now some technical boring details. Uninterested readers, please skip it. :-)

Quote
but the Creator Property in a .docx file is set by Microsoft Word to indicate what application created the docuмent, NOT who the author is.

No, sir. MS-Word or Open-/Libreoffice or any other Office application which can write MS-Word files, uses the docuмent file's "created by" property to set the author who created the file, and the time-stamp when he did so.

During the installation process of Office applications (or for some: when a user starts the application for the very first time), they typically ask for the first and last name, initials, company, and several other Office properties.
Smart administrators, companies, schools or smart users set these properties on a per-user basis. So actually every user on a multi-user computer can have his own name in a typical Office's configuration.

Either way, once you create a new docuмent file -- no matter if it's an OpenDocuмent, a ".doc" Word or a ".docx" Word file -- the Office application writes these name, company, etc user properties into the docuмent file's properties.
And this is the whole idea of these Office file properties, so that when several authors work on the same docuмent file (at different times), you nicely see who created and who changed what and when.

I did just check it in practice with an Open-/Libreoffice installation for several users on a single machine, and indeed the Office file's properties say in my native language (translated on-the-fly to English): "Created on: 17 April 2013, 21:35:00, <My First Name, My Last Name>".
And when you open the Pfluger-Letter, you see the very same properties dialogue and it says: "Created on: 6 Jan 2011, 16:29:00, MK28".
And you open the docProps folder of that ".docx" zip file, and in the core.xml there's these meta informations like author ("MK28" in our case), saving time-stamp, etc, as it should be according to the "Office Open XML" Wiki.

Now, VinniF, or somebody else, please repeat these steps with your Office installation -- provided your Office's name, initials etc properties are not empty -- in order to verify that indeed the user's Office name/initials properties go rightly into a created Office docuмent file. No "tampering" needed. And no "forgery" needed. Just save-as, close, and open-file menu.

Danke Ethelred.
Vinny, my corporate domain is is set up exactly as above. What this means is the docuмent was first created by someone with the username "MK28".