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Author Topic: Fr. Nely: Suresnes Dinner Speech  (Read 2618 times)

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Offline John Grace

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Fr. Nely: Suresnes Dinner Speech
« on: June 30, 2012, 02:56:30 PM »
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  • Dumb Ox posted this on IA. It always amusing to hear even Traditional Catholics claim Benedict XVI is a friend of Tradition. More a case of a friend of the Jєωs. The url takes you to the article which includes a photograph of Bishop Fellay.

    Quote
    Cristera posted, several days ago, some information of enormous significance that has not yet received due attention and the dissemination that it demands.

    The respected, and balanced, Catholique Refractaire blog gave report on 25th June 2012 of Fr. Nely's Dinner Speech at Suresnes, the French District Headquarters of SSPX, to Friends and Benefactors of the French District.

    Catholique Refractaire
    http://catholique-refractaire.blogspot.fr/...onnue-bien.html

    In a pre-prepared speech Fr. Nely presented on the evening of 21st June a time-line of events between Rome and the Society from the beginning of the doctrinal discussions to present.

    Contrary to public statements given by Bishop Fellay and reported by DICI on 8th June that he had no knowledge of a timetable and did not know what to expect from the amended preamble presented to the CDF on 14th April 2012, Catholique Refractaire reports that Fr. Nely revealed that Bishop Fellay had already been informed by the Vatican that his ambiguous Conciliar-leaning text was entirely acceptable and would be accepted by Rome without modification.

    When Bishop Fellay, accompanied by Fr. Pfluger, arrived at the CDF offices on 13th June 2012 he arrived with given assurance and confidence that he would be jointly signing a deal with Rome.

    Fr. Nely continued to reveal, according to Catholique Refractaire that contrary to Bishop Fellay's public statements that Benedict XVI wanted a no-strings-attached deal but was being thwarted by the CDF it was actually Benedict XVI himself who personally rejected Bishop Fellay's text as being too ambiguous and who demanded that it contain clearer and complete acceptance of the Council and the post-Conciliar magisterium.

    The substance of the Conciliar-leaning text of ralliement submitted by Bishop Fellay to Rome was partially revealed by his First Assistant Fr. Pfluger on 5th June:

    What Bp Fellay Signed, and Submitted to Rome

    In conclusion, it is now known with certainty, having been publicly reported by Fr. Nely in his written speech to clerics and laity at the French District headquarters of SSPX that:

    i) It was Bishop Fellay who desired, so greatly, a deal that he was prepared to compromise on Catholic doctrine and SSPX's fight for the past 42 years. Benedict XVI, in contrast, did not yield nor compromise his own belief in the erroneous doctrines of the Conciliar religion of Vatican II.

    ii) Bishop Fellay was hoisted upon his own petard by Benedict XVI, himself.

    Benedict XVI's clear unmoving position was most recently confirmed by the Vatican's official spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi to Frankfurter Allgemeiner Zeitung on 27th June where he stated that Benedict XVI is "in favour of reunion, but only under clear theological conditions".

    Frankfurter Allgemeiner Zeitung
    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland...g-11801199.html

    Benedict XVI's conditions clearly are, and have always been, notwithstanding Menzingen's propaganda to the contrary, that SSPX accept Vatican II and the post-Conciliar magisterium in its entirety.

    Fr. Nely's Statements (Translation of main points of Catholique Refractaire article - translator's highlighting):
    When Mgr. Fellay and Fr. Pfluger returned to Rome on June 13th, 2012 to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, it had nevertheless been announced that the reply from Rome was not known and that it was necessary for everybody to wait. Unfortunately, the reply WAS KNOWN.

    In fact, it was Fr. Alain-Marc Nély, the Second Assistant of the SSPX, who acknowledged during a meeting of the “Friends and Benefactors of the SSPX in France,” that the Superior General, Mgr. Bernard Fellay, had sent his last reply to Rome on April 14th, 2012. Subsequent to this posting, he [+Fellay] had been assured by the Vatican that the text had proven satisfactory, and that it was be accepted without modification. These are Fr. Nély’s words.

    Thus when Mgr. Fellay returned to Rome on June 13th, 2012, he had therefore the confidence and certitude that his text was the basis of the agreement that he expected to sign. Nevertheless, five days before this meeting, June 8th, 2012, he stated to DICI: “No, I have had no knowledge whatever of any timetable. It has even been suggested that the Pope is going to study this file at Castelgandolfo in July.”

    Now the Pope himself, according to the actual words of Fr. Nély, demanded the unambiguous acceptance of Vatican II, something already done by Mgr. Fellay but in ambiguous terms. It is the Pope personally, therefore, who added the new conditions. These words of Fr. Nély appear to contradict the declaration of Mgr. Fellay on June 8th, 2012: “Yes it is the Pope who wishes it, and I have said so on a number of occasions. I have sufficient and sure information in my possession to prove that what I say is true, although I have not had direct contact with the Pope, but with his close advisers.”


    Offline John Grace

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    Fr. Nely: Suresnes Dinner Speech
    « Reply #1 on: June 30, 2012, 02:58:51 PM »
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  • Clemens Maria then posted
    Quote
    Let the idea that Pope Benedict XVI is a prisoner in the Vatican being manipulated by his Curia be put to rest.

    The Jєωs certainly won at Vatican II.


    Offline Clint

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    Fr. Nely: Suresnes Dinner Speech
    « Reply #2 on: June 30, 2012, 04:29:46 PM »
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  • Quote
    These words of Fr. Nély appear to contradict the declaration of Mgr. Fellay on June 8th, 2012: “Yes it is the Pope who wishes it, and I have said so on a number of occasions.


    To give Fellay the benefit of doubt he likely was told that "it is the Pope who wishes it", since he's never talked to the pope.

    Amazing that the pope didnt accept "whatever". God's hand is in this rejection, for it makes no sense that B-16 would reject ambiguity.

    Offline Orinoco

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    Fr. Nely: Suresnes Dinner Speech
    « Reply #3 on: June 30, 2012, 04:34:44 PM »
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  • For more information on the ambiguous Doctrinal Preamble, as partially "leaked" by Fr Pfluger, see this translation of an article, also from "Catholique Refractaire":

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/The-Preamble-begins-to-show-its-face

    Offline Incredulous

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    Fr. Nely: Suresnes Dinner Speech
    « Reply #4 on: June 30, 2012, 05:48:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: Clint
    Quote
    These words of Fr. Nély appear to contradict the declaration of Mgr. Fellay on June 8th, 2012: “Yes it is the Pope who wishes it, and I have said so on a number of occasions.


    To give Fellay the benefit of doubt he likely was told that "it is the Pope who wishes it", since he's never talked to the pope.

    Amazing that the pope didnt accept "whatever". God's hand is in this rejection, for it makes no sense that B-16 would reject ambiguity.



    Bottom-line...
    Bp. Fellay... liar, liar, pants on fire!
    Pray for his tragic soul.


     :sad:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Fr. Nely: Suresnes Dinner Speech
    « Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 10:14:57 PM »
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  • Dear John Grace, I hope you forgive me for doing this, but when I had read your
    opening post, previously, I did not understand it because of the missing details,
    which I have here since replaced, below, for the benefit of other CI readers.

    John Grace post:
    [broken links repaired, formatting repaired, punctuation
    corrected, grammar improved, missing photo inserted]


    Dumb Ox posted this on IA. [It's] always amusing to hear even Traditional Catholics claim Benedict XVI is a friend of Tradition. More a case of a friend of the Jєωs. The url takes you to the article which includes a photograph of Bishop Fellay.


    Quote
    Cristera posted, several days ago, some information of enormous significance that has not yet received due attention and the dissemination that it demands.

    The respected and balanced, Catholique Refractaire blog, gave report on 25th June 2012, of Fr. Nely's Dinner Speech at Suresnes, the French District Headquarters of SSPX, to Friends and Benefactors of the French District.


    Catholique Refractaire: [link repaired; French blog in French]

    http://catholique-refractaire.blogspot.fr/...onnue-bien.html


    In a pre-prepared speech, Fr. Nely presented on the evening of 21st June a time-line of events between Rome and the Society, from the beginning of the doctrinal discussions to present.

    Contrary to public statements given by Bishop Fellay and reported by DICI on 8th June, that he had no knowledge of a timetable and did not know what to expect from the amended preamble presented to the CDF on 14th April 2012, Catholique Refractaire reports that Fr. Nely revealed that Bishop Fellay had already been informed by the Vatican that his ambiguous Conciliar-leaning text was entirely acceptable and would be accepted by Rome without modification.

    When Bishop Fellay, accompanied by Fr. Pfluger, arrived at the CDF offices on 13th June 2012, he arrived with given assurance and confidence that he would be jointly signing a deal with Rome.






    Fr. Nely continued to reveal, according to Catholique Refractaire, that contrary to Bishop Fellay's public statements that Benedict XVI wanted a no-strings-attached deal but was being thwarted by the CDF, it was actually Benedict XVI himself who personally rejected Bishop Fellay's text as being too ambiguous and who demanded that it contain clearer and complete acceptance of the Council and the post-Conciliar magisterium.

    The substance of the Conciliar-leaning text of ralliement submitted by Bishop Fellay to Rome was partially revealed by his First Assistant Fr. Pfluger on 5th June:


    What Bp Fellay Signed, and Submitted to Rome: [link repaired: IA post by Shamus, June 25, 2012, in English]



    In conclusion, it is now known with certainty, having been publicly reported by Fr. Nely in his written speech to clerics and laity at the French District headquarters of SSPX that:

    i) It was Bishop Fellay who desired, so greatly, a deal that he was prepared to compromise on Catholic doctrine and SSPX's fight for the past 42 years. Benedict XVI, in contrast, did not yield nor compromise his own belief in the erroneous doctrines of the Conciliar religion of Vatican II.

    ii) Bishop Fellay was hoisted upon his own petard by Benedict XVI, himself.

    Benedict XVI's clear unmoving position was most recently confirmed by the Vatican's official spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi to Frankfurter Allgemeiner Zeitung on 27th June where he stated that Benedict XVI is "in favour of reunion, but only under clear theological conditions."


    Frankfurter Allgemeiner Zeitung: [link repaired; German site in German]

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland...g-11801199.html


    Benedict XVI's conditions clearly are, and have always been, notwithstanding Menzingen's propaganda to the contrary, that SSPX accept Vatican II and the post-Conciliar magisterium in its entirety.

    Fr. Nely's Statements (Translation of main points of Catholique Refractaire article - translator's highlighting):

    Quote
    When Mgr. Fellay and Fr. Pfluger returned to Rome on June 13th, 2012 to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, it had nevertheless been announced that the reply from Rome was not known and that it was necessary for everybody to wait. Unfortunately, the reply WAS KNOWN.

    In fact, it was Fr. Alain-Marc Nély, the Second Assistant of the SSPX, who acknowledged during a meeting of the “Friends and Benefactors of the SSPX in France,” that the Superior General, Mgr. Bernard Fellay, had sent his last reply to Rome on April 14th, 2012. Subsequent to this posting, he [+Fellay] had been assured by the Vatican that the text had proven satisfactory, and that it was be accepted without modification. These are Fr. Nély’s words.

    Thus when Mgr. Fellay returned to Rome on June 13th, 2012, he had therefore the confidence and certitude that his text was the basis of the agreement that he expected to sign. Nevertheless, five days before this meeting, June 8th, 2012, he stated to DICI: “No, I have had no knowledge whatever of any timetable. It has even been suggested that the Pope is going to study this file at Castelgandolfo in July.”

    Now the Pope himself, according to the actual words of Fr. Nély, demanded the unambiguous acceptance of Vatican II, something already done by Mgr. Fellay but in ambiguous terms. It is the Pope personally, therefore, who added the new conditions. These words of Fr. Nély appear to contradict the declaration of Mgr. Fellay on June 8th, 2012: “Yes it is the Pope who wishes it, and I have said so on a number of occasions. I have sufficient and sure information in my possession to prove that what I say is true, although I have not had direct contact with the Pope, but with his close advisers.”

    I added the underline in the sentence:

    "...it was actually Benedict XVI himself who personally rejected Bishop Fellay's text as being too ambiguous and who demanded that it contain clearer and complete acceptance of the Council and the post-Conciliar magisterium,"

    because it seemed easier to observe the meaning with underline.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Fr. Nely: Suresnes Dinner Speech
    « Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 11:36:07 PM »
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  • For any of our English speakers who know French and/or German, I highly
    recommend that you follow the links in the Dumb Ox quoted post, above, for the
    original source websites are very descriptive and elucidating in their own right.

    I find it incredible that there are so many ostensibly intelligent people around who
    are wont to discredit information gleaned on the Internet, merely by dint of the
    fact that it was found on the Internet.

    This might be a topic for its own thread, if so, it ought to link back here for
    reference.

    How many of us know someone who is respected in the community because of
    their profession: doctor, lawyer, judge, psychologist, civic leader, corporation
    CEO, philanthropist, whatever -- who scoffs at news that you bring to the
    attention of a group, on the basis that it is what you found on the Internet?

    I think that the Internet ought to be treated with an appropriate measure of
    suspicion, for it is virtual reality, and not self-definitive, inasmuch as it is possible
    to fake certain things, to make it seem like something is taking place when it
    is not.

    But when sources can be verified and multiple reports of the same thing are
    coming from credible witnesses, it becomes worth paying attention to it, for the
    sake of seeking the truth.

    And especially when there is a concerted effort by some entity, of whatever
    description, to oppose the testimony of witnesses, that too must be taken into
    account.

    For we have here +Fellay saying one thing, and credible reports of contrary
    testimony being apparently suppressed by Menzingen in multiple ways. Such as
    kept off the SSPX website, kept off of the DICI website, and credible reports of
    the "other 3 bishops" being threatened with subjection to +Fellay's authority
    by not making public the fact of such contrary testimony.

    The intrigue is rather unbecoming of a Catholic Society, and perhaps the
    respected professionals to whom I refer are wont to ignore such themes for the
    sake of keeping public hysteria under control? Or what?

    I am asking about this because it seems to me that such respected community
    leaders might be under pressure from their peers to discount Internet information
    by some kind of pressure from others they know and owe respect, and the whole
    thing is being promoted by some minority who see the Internet as a threat to
    their hold on the minds of people at large.

    I would really appreciate the informed comment of other members who are
    familiar with this topic, such as Matthew.

    Certainly there are websites to go to that treat of this topic, but ironically, it
    would be of no use to recommend such sites to the civic leaders to whom I refer,
    because they discount the reliability of the Internet, per se.



    But in regards to this thread, here there is a post on another website, IA (the
    first, opening post of this thread, which I reformatted, above), which links to
    French, English and German sites that describe a very suspicious mess
    that is ostensibly going on at the highest office of the SSPX.

    And you and I know intelligent, respected people who refuse to believe this could
    be taking place.


    Today is the Feast of the Precious Blood of Our Lord
    .

    How many of us know of Protestants who get all choked up and emotional over
    the doctrine that Jesus shed His Blood for us, which Blood, in its essence, is the
    the means of our redemption, that by which we would be saved, those of us who
    believe? (Actually, those who are baptized and believe, Mk xvi. 16)

    And yet these same Protestants reject the dogma of Transubstantiation and ignore
    Our Lord's own words the the 6th chapter of St. John, while they take literally just
    about everything else in the Bible (many things to the point of ridiculousness).
    They have no Feast of the Most Precious Blood of Our Lord, even while they
    claim to adhere to the doctrine of the salvific effect of His Blood. They have no
    feast days at all, actually, for they abhor the principle of feasting because they
    deny the value of works, which applies to fasting, and without fasting, feast days
    are meaningless.

    This penchant for denouncing the Internet seems to be related to Protestant
    blindness in a way, inasmuch as it denies the common testimony of witnesses.
    Protestants deny what the the Fathers and Doctors of the Church asserted
    throughout the ages, due to their separation in time from the witnesses. And
    now, modern skeptics deny information obtained by multiple sources on the
    Internet out of some sense of separation from the witnesses, not in time (for the
    Internet is very new) but from reality itself, since the Internet is at least to some
    degree a virtual reality.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Fr. Nely: Suresnes Dinner Speech
    « Reply #7 on: July 02, 2012, 01:17:15 AM »
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  • Can anyone tell me how the French pronounce "Suresnes?"

    It looks like        <    sure - sz - ness >

    But that doesn't sound very French!
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.