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Offline X

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Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
« on: June 08, 2018, 10:09:52 PM »
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  • https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/letter-fr-le-roux-rector-st-thomas-aquinas-seminary-upcoming-chapter-38447
    On the Feast of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, June 7, 2018. 
    Dear Friends and Benefactors, 
    My Father and your Father. In just a few words, Our Lord Jesus Christ reveals to us the intimate nature of God and our divine adoption.  
    Nonetheless, this revelation does not mean that man is free from the laws that govern human nature and dictate the balance he must keep. Man must respect and submit to the law of the Incarnation, by which God Himself assumed human nature without losing anything of His dignity, so that man could participate in God’s intimate life – but still according to the limits of human nature. 
    It is essential to be reminded of our human condition because since original sin man is constantly attracted by excess. Although the infinite nature of God allows Him to be beyond measure, man, a finite creature, cannot exceed due measure without deviating from his own nature. 
    This deviation is particularly seen during periods of crisis, when points of reference are blurred and foundations waver. Little by little, blinded and disorientated by the whirlwind of the errors that surround him, man is led to judge and act only in response to the crisis. But since crisis is only the negation and destruction of order, it cannot constitute the basis for right judgement and right action; first it is neces-sary to return to order. This return becomes even more pressing when the crisis not only disrupts one individual, but calls into question the very foundations of a society. 
    The history of the Church shows that all the religious orders were born from crises. But crisis can-not constitute the essence of the consecrated life: it is only the providential occasion for its blossoming. The essence of order is obviously of a very different nature. Thus, as the order of St. Dominic cannot be defined only by its fight against the Cathar heresy, the Society of St. Pius X cannot be reduced to its necessary fight against the errors of the present time. If, by misfortune, the crisis were to become the only reason for its existence, the Society of St. Pius X would soon disappear, without having worked for the establishment of the Reign of Christ by means of the holiness of priests. This is, in fact, the essence of the life of this Priestly Society: the immolation of its priests to the glory of God the Father upon the altar of the Holy Mass. Regnavit a ligno Deus, “God reigns by the Cross” as the Vexilla Regis affirms. 
    The more that the crisis of the Church intensifies, the more that its doctrinal bases are shaken, the more that Satan works to disorient men by previously unimaginable disruptions in the Church, so much the more must the Society of St. Pius X remain faithful to the vocation it received from its founder, Msgr. Lefebvre: to guard the holiness of the priest, the man of the Mass and, thus, of Calvary. It would be a serious and disastrous error to claim that, because born in the progressive crisis, the judgments and actions of the Society of St. Pius X must be determined according to the developments of this crisis. 
    Judging from the wave of panic that has seized some of us during these last months, it would seem that some of us gave lost our grasp of reason and balance on the eve of the upcoming elective Chapter of our Religious Society. Everyone gives his opinion, insists on what “must” be done, forecasts, criticizes left and right, goes around shouting about how dreadful everything is. Wouldn’t this be the time to re-cover a little sanity? 
    These extremes have the satanic mark of the egalitarian spirit of Revolution, by which everyone sets himself up as a sovereign authority. This crisis of authority is, in fact, nothing more than the fren-zied refusal of any paternity and particularly of the divine Paternity. It is also the denial of the nature of man: a dependent being, subject to God. 
    It is necessary not to allow ourselves to be carried away by this imbalance and to keep our course in this storm. It is enough to face reality: in a time when the Church and the world are going through a deep and lasting crisis, our young Religious Society is not yet fifty years old. For a religious order, that is the age of adolescence; a particularly fragile age, when growth can happen in imbalanced and awk-ward ways. Thus, we should not be astonished by certain disharmonies, but strive to remedy them. And there is not another remedy than to go back to the sources of the spirit that guided the foundation of our work. 
    When the current crisis threatens to engulf us in its whirlwind, it is indeed necessary to combat it in an orderly manner, by resorting to principles and, particularly, by respecting the supreme rule of paterni-ty, which is the keystone of any society. By living as sons, rooted in the divine paternity, we all – priests and faithful, each in his place – will work for the fidelity of the Society of St. Pius X to its vocation. 
    Let us pray for the priests, so that they may keep their place, living in obedience, without assuming powers that do not belong to them, particularly that of passing wholesale judgment about everything. Let us pray that, on the contrary, they develop an intense priestly life consisting of fidelity to prayer, renouncement and dedication to the service of souls. 
    Let us hope that, for their part, the faithful strengthen their prayer life and that they do not omit to say a daily prayer for our upcoming Chapter. Let us hope that they listen to the message of Our Lady of Fatima regarding the necessity of doing penance by fidelity to the duty of state. Let us pray that they also develop a spirit of devotion towards their priests and their parishes. 
    An elective Chapter in a religious society is an important moment that cannot be treated as a horse race open for betting. This event is a solemn occasion for a religious society because it is a particular moment of grace during which the fidelity to the Statutes must be renewed. It allows for a greater union of the members dependent upon the hierarchy and a re-organization in preparation for new battles. 
    Let us pray for the grace to avoid the imbalance of which we have spoken, to avoid abuses and in-sults, to avoid rash judgment of intentions and the formation of parties. Let us pray, quite simply, for the grace of remaining faithful to our Rule. 
    It is a question of resolutely committing ourselves, so that the Social Reign of Christ may be estab-lished by the Priestly Reign of Christ. 

    We entrust to your habitual benevolence and, particularly, to your prayers, our Society, which we love with a filial heart, so that it can be totally dedicated to the service of the Kingship of Christ in the Church, in the world and in families and that it may be guarded by its Founder, our Father in the Faith, our venerated Msgr. Lefebvre. 
    In Christo Sacerdote et Maria,
    - Fr. Yves le Roux, Rector, St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #1 on: June 09, 2018, 07:17:28 AM »
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  • Here is some commentary from: http://tradcatresist.blogspot.com/

    "There is so much here that the mind boggles! Firstly, I was always under the assumption that once the crisis was over and Rome returned to tradition, there would no longer be the need for the SSPX. That was certainly the view of the former superior of Ireland -  the view that the SSPX would have 'done their job' and would simply dissolve into a once more truly Rome ruled Church free of conciliar error. The chrism of the SSPX was much more than the 'sanctity of priests'. If that is the totality of its raison d'etre then why not merge with the Institute of Christ the King, who claim that their chrism is the very same thing?  (No doubt with the same end result - ie their seminarians being seen in Florence recently lining up to receive communion at the novus ordo)
     
     The question here is how will SSPX supporters, (priest and layman alike) who maintain that 'nothing has changed' square this circle? 'The Resistance' can hardly be blamed for manipulating these words?"


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #2 on: June 10, 2018, 01:27:59 AM »
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  • .
    Fr. LeRoux could call up Monty Hall or President Trump to make a deal.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #3 on: June 10, 2018, 01:52:34 PM »
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  • .
    Fr. LeRoux could call up Monty Hall or President Trump to make a deal.

    "I'm gonna make the SSPX great again!
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline drew

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #4 on: June 10, 2018, 02:01:37 PM »
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  • It was in 2012 that Bishop Fellay submitted his Six Conditions, only Three of which were termed essential, for the SSPX to be integrated within the Novus Ordo structures.  They were: 1, Freedom to criticize Vatican II (that is, within the stipulations of Donum Veritatis, CDF instruction on the vocation of theologians, and the 1989 Profession of Faith vowing submission of the "mind and will to the authentic magisterium"); 2, legal permission to use the 1962 Bugnini transitional extra-ordinary form of the Novus Ordo Missal, and 3, a bishop chosen from their own ranks. 
     
    These three sine qua non conditions are an open admission that as far as they were concerned a state of emergency no longer exists and therefore, it was an abandonment of any obligation regarding the rights of Traditional faithful.  From that time onward, the SSPX became a group of conservative priests with traditional sentiments without any real purpose eventually even accepting "jurisdiction" from the Novus Ordo to do what they had always done.  This sermon is an effort to redefine the SSPX's and invent a purpose for its existence.  The sermon is like listening to an improvised Act IV of a three act tragedy. 
     
    The SSPX was never a religious order.  It is a simple ad hoc pious union of priests whose entire justification for being was the aggrieved rights of traditional Catholic faithful.  When these rights, as they understand them, were then met by local ordinaries, the SSPX lost its purpose for existing.  This sermon is an attempt to redefine the SSPX as a religious order, like the Dominicans, that has its own chrism independent of the current crisis in the Church that sparked its formation.  Their new job description is the formation of "holy priests."
     
    It is true that religious orders like the Dominicans began as an ad hoc efforts addressing a particular crisis but developed a broader religious purpose from understanding the ultimate nature of the crisis and recognizing that the current crisis is just one manifestation of possible problems sharing a common etiology.  This has never happened with the SSPX because the SSPX has never understood the nature of the fight.  Archbishop Lefebvre never looked to the most fundamental causes of the current crisis in the Church and therefore never formulated any effective plan of correction beyond simple remedial corrections of evident evil consequences while never addressing essential causes. 
     
    It has always been from the beginning a crisis of Faith.  Modernism and its variation, Neo-modernism, is the heresy that must be confronted today.  Heresy is the denial of dogma by definition.  A heretic is someone who does not hold dogma as their rule of faith and thus denies a reveal truth that has been formally defined by the Magisterium.  Modernism is the "synthesis of all heresies" in that it attacks as its primary end not one individual dogma but all dogmas as dogma.  It attacks dogma in its very nature.  The only possible way to defend the Faith against Modernism is by reaffirming dogma qua dogma and holding it as the proximate rule of faith.  Truth is the one and only weapon against an abuse of authority. 
     
    Archbishop Lefebvre never got this right.  He believed that any good willed Jew as a Jew, Moslem as a Moslem, Protestant as a Protestant, Buddhist as a Buddhist, etc., etc.  can be in a state of grace, a temple of the Holy Ghost, a secret member of the Church and obtain salvation without belief in any revealed truth, without receiving any sacrament, and without being subject to the Roman Pontiff.  Every dogma touching upon what is necessary as a necessity of means for salvation was overturned and the methodology used to overturn these dogmas is exactly the same methodology used by all Neo-modernists.  +Lefebvre therefore had no principled argument against John Paul II's Prayer Meeting at Assisi even though he was so scandalized from the event that he consecrated the four bishops.  What could he say against John Paul II for this blasphemy?  If those at the Prayer Meeting at Assisi could be in the state of grace why not pray with them just as every Catholic prays with other Catholics on any given Sunday? Catholics pray together with other Catholics because they enter the Church through the sacraments, stand in a common profession of faith, and submit to the same authority.  These were the sine qua non conditions for the possibility of being in the state of grace.  If this is not true, if the only actual condition is the belief in and the 'desire to do the will of a god who rewards and punishes,' then everyone at the Prayer Meeting of Assisi could be in the state of grace.  Why not pray with them?
     
    +Lefebvre's second great error was that he regarded immemorial ecclesiastical traditions as matters of mere discipline and not as necessary attributes of the Faith by which it can be known and communicated to others.  The destruction of our immemorial ecclesiastical traditions is just another form of the Iconoclast heresy but +Lefebvre never opposed this destruction with the truth of Catholic dogma.  He only opposed the direction of the reform and not the reform itself considering the immemorial ecclesiastical traditions as matters of mere discipline open to the free and independent will of the legislator. 
     
    This is the legacy of Archbishop Lefebvre and explains why the SSPX never became a religious order.  St.  Dominic did not criticize the Carthusians who were tasked with preaching to the Cathars for any doctrinal deficiency.  Their error consisted in their worldliness.  They were deficient in poverty, prayer and mortification.  The Dominicans he founded were to be holy, educated priests that were both contemplative and active and consequently they were perfect for any crisis the Church might meet.  The SSPX has no answer to the current crisis in the Church because they have never addressed its fundamental underpinnings.  This is not to be overly critical of +Lefebvre because he was as much a victim of the compromises with Neo-modernism as others such as Msgr.  Joseph Fenton and Fr.  Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.  regarding the undermining of dogma and our immemorial ecclesiastical traditions, but we should know better having witnessed the destruction of the Church over these past fifty years. 
     
    It's too late for the SSPX.  Theoretically they could turn things around but practically speaking, there is no chance outside a real miracle.  But here is the greater tragedy.  If the resistance does not understand why the SSPX failed, they will be no more successful in addressing the current crisis. 
     
    Drew   


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #5 on: June 10, 2018, 02:33:22 PM »
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  • and the 1989 Profession of Faith vowing submission of the "mind and will to the authentic magisterium"

    Catholics are indeed required to give a submission of mind and will to the authentic Magisterium.  You simply don't understand what the term means.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #6 on: June 10, 2018, 02:38:36 PM »
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  • A heretic is someone who does not hold dogma as their rule of faith 



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #7 on: June 10, 2018, 02:53:31 PM »
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  • I'll let Msgr. Fenton explain what internal religious assent means:

    Quote
    This authority (of the papal encyclicals) is undoubtedly great. It is, in a sense, sovereign. It is the teaching of the supreme pastor and teacher of the Church. Hence the faithful have a strict obligation to receive this teaching with an infinite respect. A man must not be content simply not to contradict it openly and in a more or less scandalous fashion. An internal mental assent is demanded. It should be received as the teaching sovereignly authorized within the Church.

    Ultimately, however, this assent is not the same as the one demanded in the formal act of faith. Strictly speaking, it is possible that this teaching (proposed in the encyclical letter) is subject to error. There are a thousand reasons to believe that it is not. It has probably never been (erroneous), and it is normally certain that it will never be. But, absolutely speaking, it could be, because God does not guarantee it as He guarantees the teaching formulated by way of definition’. 


    Lercher teaches that the internal assent due to these pronouncements cannot be called certain according to the strictest philosophical meaning of the term. The assent given to such propositions is interpretative condicionatus, including the tacit condition that the teaching is accepted as true “unless the Church should at some time peremptorially define otherwise or unless the decision should be discovered to be erroneous.”



    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #8 on: June 10, 2018, 03:40:01 PM »
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  • Fr. Le Roux, :facepalm:

    Just another two-bit French revolutionary, misusing the concepts of Catholic obedience and patrimony to mislead the faithful.

    In reality, the Rector and his superiors have betrayed +ABL and the original mission of the SSPX.



    Fr. Le Roux's real job is to indoctrinate the seminarians with the "big lie". 

    To find and form priestly souls, who are weak enough to accommodate the Conciliar revolution.

    Intellectual men who can discern the truth, virile men are willing to fight and die for the Faith... need not apply to his seminary.

    For in Menzingen's estimation, such rugged Catholic men, "lack vocations" for the newChurch of the future.

    PS
    Parents, if your son was rejected by the SSPX for seminary, consider it Our Lady's grace and an enormous blessing to your family.



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline drew

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #9 on: June 10, 2018, 04:47:11 PM »
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  • Catholics are indeed required to give a submission of mind and will to the authentic Magisterium.  You simply don't understand what the term means.

    Ladislaus,
     
    I have already discussed this issue with you before.  You know everything therefore you can learn nothing.  The last thread established that you really do not know what the Magisterium is.  You did not even know that it is part of the content of revelation and part of the act of revelation. 
     
    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #1129 on: May 21, 2018, 04:14:37 PM »
     
    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #1126 on: May 20, 2018, 02:34:58 PM »
     
     
    Not knowing what the Magisterium is, how could you possible arrive at the correct answer to the problem with the 1989 Profession of Faith with its requirement of unconditional submission of the mind and will to the authentic magisterium?  This question was discussed in detail and your objections never once produced any evidence beyond the authority of your own personal opinions.
     
    SECRET SPECIAL CHAPTER OF NEO FSSPX
    « Reply #75 on: April 10, 2016, 06:46:10 PM »
     
    The entire thread discusses this question that you just never grasped but it is important for anyone interested in defending the faith to understand.
     
    SECRET SPECIAL CHAPTER OF NEO FSSPX
    Started by covet truth « 1 2 3 ... 6 »

    I invite others to review the previous arguments exchanged and judge for themselves the merits of your claims.  I think they were worthless but that is for others to judge for themselves.
     
    Drew

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #10 on: June 10, 2018, 05:04:08 PM »
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  • Ladislaus,
     
    I have already discussed this issue with you before.  You know everything therefore you can learn nothing.

    You and your wife (or some other crony) downthumbed the simple citation from Msgr. Fenton.  You're the one who constantly thinks he knows better than Catholic theologians, dismissing them as idiots who don't know Theology 101.

    You went on this extended diatribe about religious submission without having any clue what the term actually meant.  You confuse religious submission with the absolute assent of faith.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #11 on: June 10, 2018, 05:05:38 PM »
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  • You did not even know that it is part of the content of revelation and part of the act of revelation.  

    Except that it's NOT part of the act of revelation ... as taught by Vatican I.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #12 on: June 10, 2018, 05:09:29 PM »
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  • Not knowing what the Magisterium is, how could you possible arrive at the correct answer to the problem with the 1989 Profession of Faith with its requirement of unconditional submission of the mind and will to the authentic magisterium?  This question was discussed in detail and your objections never once produced any evidence beyond the authority of your own personal opinions.

    And you continue to lie and calumniate ....  I cite theologian after theologian, and am not simply gratuitously asserting my personal opinions, as you in fact do.  With regard to this particular discussion, I cite Msgr. Fenton who in turn cites numerous other theologians, asserting that there's UNIVERSAL agreement among them regarding the points I am making.  You are at once bad willed and intellectually challenged.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #13 on: June 10, 2018, 05:14:38 PM »
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  • Notice how Drew and his wife and another crony (a son perhaps) have given the perfunctory 3 downvotes to a post that does nothing but cited Msgr. Fenton, a very well respected and conservative pre-Vatican II theologian, who in turn cites numerous other theologians who teach the same things.  That's because Drew knows better.  Drew knows better than these trained theologians, and knows better that the Pope and Bishops teaching the Universal Church.  Elsewhere Drew denounces Bishop Guerard des Lauriers, a high-ranking pre-Vatican II theologian who helped Pius XII in the definition of the Assumption, co-authored the Ottaviani intervention, and was for a time the personal confessor of Pius XII, Drew denounces him as a simpleton who doesn't know the basics about form and matter.

    Quote
    Under Pope Pius XII ( 1939–1958 ), Fr. Guérard des Lauriers served as a professor at the Pontifical Lateran University in Rome. Guérard des Lauriers, O.P., was an advisor to the Pope on the dogma of the Assumption of Mary (proclaimed in Munificentissimus Deus) before 1950. From 1954 until 1955 he served as personal Father Confessor to Pius XII, before being replaced by Fr. Augustin Bea, S.J.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr. LeRoux Needs a Deal
    « Reply #14 on: June 10, 2018, 05:19:50 PM »
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  • Catholics are indeed required to give a submission of mind and will to the authentic Magisterium.  You simply don't understand what the term means.
    I'm still working on the fact that we're talking about the "1989 Profession of Faith", the Profession of Faith required by.....JPII.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17


     

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