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Author Topic: Fr. Kevin Robinson (SSPX) sues New Jersey governor  (Read 8365 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Fr. Kevin Robinson (SSPX) sues New Jersey governor
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2020, 05:42:02 PM »
Quote from: CatholicMonarchist on May 02, 2020, 05:27:28 PM
I agree Pope Francis has betrayed the Church, but that does not mean I have the authority to determine when Unam Sanctam does or does not apply and with all due respect that lack of authority applies to you as well.

Wrong:

The Church has taught clearly, consistently, and definitively on the matter of its indirect temporal authority (not just in Unam Sanctam, but Immortale Dei, the Syllabus, et al).

You seek to make what is certain nebulous, in order to paint the cowardly SSPX in a better light.

(You tipped your cards when you injected your comment about conspiracy theories; according to the latest Menzingen propaganda, all SSPXers are now to only accept the accounts of the lamestream media, and are now only useful idiots).

But no Catholic needs any special authority to accept Catholic doctrine, which clearly states the temporal authority has no more right to meddle in Church/spiritual affairs, than the Church has to shut down governments or regulate taxes.

When arguments and positions are made a priori on a partisan basis, they usually fall apart (like yours).
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Offline CatholicMonarchist

Re: Fr. Kevin Robinson (SSPX) sues New Jersey governor
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2020, 05:48:39 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 02, 2020, 05:42:02 PM
Wrong:

The Church has taught clearly, consistently, and definitively on the matter of its indirect temporal authority (not just in Unam Sanctam, but Immortale Dei, the Syllabus, et al).

You seek to make what is certain nebulous, in order to paint the cowardly SSPX in a better light.

(You tipped your cards when you injected your comment about conspiracy theories; all SSPXers are now to accept the accounts of the lamestream media, and are now only useful idiots).

But no Catholic needs any special authority to accept Catholic doctrine, which clearly states the temporal authority has no more right to meddle in Church/spiritual affairs, than the Church has to shut down governments or regulate taxes.

When arguments and positions are made a priori on a partisan basis, they usually fall apart (like yours).
I've been very clear from my very first post that I am associated with the SSPX. I am undergoing conversion with an SSPX priest so of course I am going to have a bit of partisanship as you have for the Resistance movement, I presume. There is no such thing as an unbiased and pure opinion untainted by ideology.


As to what you stated, once again we have no disagreement that Unam Sanctam means that the Church has authority over temporal matters as well as spiritual and that the temporal may not infringe upon the rights of the Church.


But what you have not told me is how it would be possible for you to maintain your position when both temporal and Church authorities have definitively given guidance on a matter that is put in place to save lives and prevent deaths?!
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Fr. Kevin Robinson (SSPX) sues New Jersey governor
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2020, 06:29:10 PM »
Quote from: CatholicMonarchist on May 02, 2020, 05:48:39 PM
But what you have not told me is how it would be possible for you to maintain your position when both temporal and Church authorities have definitively given guidance on a matter that is put in place to save lives and prevent deaths?!

Social distancing and the quarantining of the healthy does not save lives.  It takes lives, by weakening the immune systems of the healthy (in addition to the mental illnesses it is causing: Anxiety, stress, depression, alcoholism, etc).  Once they are let back out into the population, their compromised immune systems are going to make them more apt to contract disease (possible by design).

But as regards the squandering of Her prerogatives to the overreach of the secular authority (which even the conciliarist conservative clergy perceives), of what "definitive guidance" are you speaking??

The guidance which has been given is squarely betraying the definitive guidance given by 700 years of infallible (ordinary) magisterial teaching regarding the indirect authority of the Pope, and relations between the Church and state.

How can the rebellion of Francis be considered "definitive teaching"  which flies squarely in the face of truly definitive teaching?

If this Pope chooses to betray those teachings, how does that weaken my argument by maintaining fidelity to them??
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Offline CatholicMonarchist

Re: Fr. Kevin Robinson (SSPX) sues New Jersey governor
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2020, 06:48:12 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 02, 2020, 06:29:10 PM
Social distancing and the quarantining of the healthy does not save lives.  It takes lives, by weakening the immune systems of the healthy (in addition to the mental illnesses it is causing: Anxiety, stress, depression, alcoholism, etc).  Once they are let back out into the population, their compromised immune systems are going to make them more apt to contract disease (possible by design).

But as regards the squandering of Her prerogatives to the overreach of the secular authority (which even the conciliarist conservative clergy perceives), of what "definitive guidance" are you speaking??

The guidance which has been given is squarely betraying the definitive guidance given by 700 years of infallible (ordinary) magisterial teaching regarding the indirect authority of the Pope, and relations between the Church and state.

How can the rebellion of Francis be considered "definitive teaching"  which flies squarely in the face of truly definitive teaching?

If this Pope chooses to betray those teachings, how does that weaken my argument by maintaining fidelity to them??
By "definitive guidance" I mean the Church's current orders to follow temporal authority in regards to social distancing and the temporary halting of the Holy Mass.

As for social distancing and the immune system, I will put my trust in physicians and experts and most people will do the same. This is a new virus and we do not have natural immunity to it. I have family who have weakened immune system due to cancer or other health issues and the stay at home orders have helped save their lives.

As for relations between Church and state then I follow the Church's pre-Vatican II teachings because Vatican II is obviously ambiguous. And if Vatican II teachings about Church and state are interpreted according to the post-conciliar views out there then indeed it would be contradictory to previous Church teaching and highly problematic.
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Offline Matto

Re: Fr. Kevin Robinson (SSPX) sues New Jersey governor
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2020, 07:14:48 PM »
As much as I like talking a big game. In New York, Jews, in a city owned and run by Jews, assembled for a public funeral of a Rabbi against orders. They set the cops on them and the firemen came and put the firehoses on them, breaking up the funeral march. Those were Jews. How do you think the same authorities who hate Christians would treat the local SSPX that doesn't even have the support of the local diocese? Would they take the fire hoses into the Church and turn them on the priest and faithful, drowning the Blessed Sacrament? They threatened to close down permanently and seize the property of Churches who tried to hold services here.

In such a state I prefer them to lay low. Hear confessions by appointment, give the Eucharist to people privately one or two at a time, hopefully hold private Masses that are not open to the public, with trusted non-snitches can be invited to them, and if it is possible to hold regular Masses, go ahead. And to sue and try to legally win the right to hold Masses by their rules, sounds great? And I do not see how we can say Masses should go on because the Church is above the state, when the Church herself and the Bishops ordered the Churches to be closed. At least the SSPX is holding public Masses against the wishes of the local Bishops when the local state authorities is allowing them.
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