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Author Topic: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?  (Read 25894 times)

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Offline ByzCat3000

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Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2020, 01:59:09 PM »
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  • Those who stay in the Novus Ordo, FSSP, diocesan Indult, etc. at least don't have a problem with the Conciliar Church. They see no major Crisis, just a few "implementation hiccups" that took place at Vatican II. So their truck/commerce with the Conciliar Church is understandable.

    The group I describe -- dogmatic home aloners -- who stay aloof from the whole world of Tradition, despite a full acknowledgement to the Crisis in the Church and the evils of Vatican II, is sick and boggles my mind. It's the worst kind of error.
    I assumed praeter was more of an indult leaning type, whether he attends the post Francis sspx or not.  Am I wrong about him?  

    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #76 on: February 11, 2020, 02:19:25 PM »
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  • I recently separated from our chapel of one priest named by you here, and we are wondering if you can give us some advice on the problems with "transient clerics" so that we will be armed in the future and not get duped again.  The most noticeable problem was that the lone priest leader seems to take on a role that he is the only and high authority and all must fall into line with all his OPINIONS no matter what, or else.  This has also been almost radically the situation that is expected by all the sheep in the group, or else.  It became very uncomfortable in that the sheep seemed to be choosing to be under the emotional control of the priest without thinking in a healthy ways for themselves.  Also, the sheep knowing the mindset of the priest in all things, would seek validation from the priest by all the ways a child would do so with their teacher, sports coach, or other leader they wish to impress.

    It reminds me of people in protestant sects that I have talked to who nearly always regard their elders, pastors, etc.
    as the end all authority no matter what is the situation.  I always refer to this type of situation as that their leader is like unto a pope to them.

    Thank you very much for your help to further reflect on "transient clerics" from anyone else here at Cathinfo who has any advice to share.
    Transient clerics can have many issues. This is why the Church, in her wisdom, says there should be none of them.

    I have found the following problems with such clerics (in no particular order; not every transient priest I have met has all these problems):
    - demigod attitude in all things, spiritual and non-spiritual
    - demands obedience in all things
    - criticizes every other priest on the planet they disapprove of, thereby brainwashing the unsuspecting to believe he is the last vestige of the Catholic Church
    - flip flops to suit his needs
    - "working" on those with money especially
    - befriending elderly people, especially widows, those with health problems, or those who don't have access to the internet
    - lies
    - perversion of one form or another
    - questionable friends (pervert priests, warlocks, etc)

    To protect yourself in the future I suggest evaluating:
    - why did the priest leave his order/diocese/monastery, etc? If the priest had a problem obeying his superior, stay away.
    - did the priest make vows and then leave? If so, stay away.
    - does the priest have a legit superior? If not, stay away.
    - is the priest associated with a questionable group or person? If so, stay away.
    - did the priest appoint himself a superior of others? If so, stay away.
    - is the priest friends with, does he support (or cooperate with), or does he foist on the laity pervert priests? If so, stay away.
    - who else supports the priest? If only old women, warlocks, mostly his family, etc, probably stay away.

     I would go to a legit sede priest before going to mass with a transient priest ever again.


    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #77 on: February 11, 2020, 02:22:22 PM »
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  • We obviously need to respect our priests, and they do have a certain amount of authority that comes merely from their exalted state due to their Ordination and operating in persona Christi.  But they do not have any canonical or doctrinal authority.  So, for instance, if a priest preaches something from the pulpit I don't agree with, I might talk to him about it, but I will not go around the parish rabble-rousing against the priest.  So, for instance, if a Priest is R&R, while I am sedevacantist, I'm not going to go around his chapel promoting sedevacantism, or leave pro-sedevacantist pamphlets all over the church, etc.  If someone asks me my opinion, I would give it honestly, but I would not cause issues at the chapel.  But I do not feel any obligation to become R&R myself, since he doesn't have any authority to impose his opinion on consciences.  That's where his authority ends, IMO.
    The problem I have had is not a sede having trouble at an R&R chapel, but an R&R having trouble at a sede chapel.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #78 on: February 11, 2020, 02:27:35 PM »
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  • Those who stay in the Novus Ordo, FSSP, diocesan Indult, etc. at least don't have a problem with the Conciliar Church. They see no major Crisis, just a few "implementation hiccups" that took place at Vatican II. So their truck/commerce with the Conciliar Church is understandable.

    Some (certainly not all) who attend the FSSP do have a problem with the conciliar church, and the new mass, and they do see a major crisis. The issue of why they do not attend an SSPX or Resistance chapel may vary, but it could be that despite the crisis, they still think that they HAVE to be attached to the "official church." I'm just relating my experience of having attended an FSSP parish, though I wasn't very involved there.

    Or, they may have had a problem with the SSPX in the past (as I did), or maybe no other option is available where they live, such as no SSPX, independent, or Resistance chapel is available (or something like that).


    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #79 on: February 11, 2020, 03:35:00 PM »
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  • It is not the norm for the adherents of SSPX chapels to call their chapels a "parish". Archbishop Lefebvre was careful to make the distinction, because he did not intend to set up a counter-church. If some SSPX adherents make the mistake of calling their SSPX chapel a "Parish," it's not the end of the world.

    In a crisis situation, the regular and new code of canon law does not necessarily apply. I don't believe that the new code of canon law addresses times of crisis. Do you agree that we are in a crisis situation?
    Meg,
    I believe you are wrong.

    Here are a few examples for you:
    https://sspx.org/en/community/priories
    "Recommended non-SSPX chapel
    Fr. Leo Carley, Pastor
    2935 Chenoweth Road
    Akron, OH 44312
    330-644-3526"

    "Recommended non-SSPX chapel
    Fr. Leo Carley, Pastor
    25 Chapel Road
    Bethlehem (Wheeling), WV 26003
    216-644-3526"

    Unless this Fr. Carley has been appointed by his diocesan NO superior, he should not be called a pastor.

    http://jesusandmarychapel.weebly.com/
    "For more information call the parish office"

    http://www.sspxridgefield.com/bulletin-north-american-martyrs
    "Parish priest"
    Photo -- https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54c26ca8e4b0b73c4785378b/1425692450318-DZ0MVC7F075SNBBDJ6QN/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kAPXZiykqoCMEgT11CPvfph7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z5QPOohDIaIeljMHgDF5CVlOqpeNLcJ80NK65_fV7S1UW9fjVtKVC61ozgtzm2q0ziF5SLAi1AViarSmfhi9IklK6k9fd_rPPfRJoL7A9diPg/image-asset.jpeg?format=1000w

    http://www.fatimachapel.org/
    "Fr. Steven Reuter, SSPX - Pastor"

    https://www.sspxportland.org/visit
    "Baptisms:
    Normally within the week of  Birth.
    Contact Pastor to schedule time.

     Holy Matrimony:
    Arrange with pastor 6 months prior.

    Extreme Unction and Sick Calls:
    Arrange individually with  the pastor.

    Pastor:
    Father Thomas Hufford"

    https://www.sangercatholic.com/weekly/
    And
    https://olmcnrh.com/2020/01/18/bulletin-for-01-19-2020-added/
    Bulletins:
    "Rev. Fr. Richard Brueggemann, Pastor"

    http://www.olgsdickinson.org/schedules.html
    Bulletin:
    "Pastor: Fr. Michael Harber"

    https://stjosephs-priory.com/en/content/53988
    "Regular Parish Devotions"

    Is that enough examples for you?

    It is clear most sspx chapels use the words churches, parishes and pastors in describing themselves. It is a big deal because it goes against what ABL taught and it goes against what the SSPX what created as: missionaries.

    It is deceit, plain and simple.


    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #80 on: February 11, 2020, 03:38:06 PM »
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  • Some (certainly not all) who attend the FSSP do have a problem with the conciliar church, and the new mass, and they do see a major crisis. The issue of why they do not attend an SSPX or Resistance chapel may vary, but it could be that despite the crisis, they still think that they HAVE to be attached to the "official church." I'm just relating my experience of having attended an FSSP parish, though I wasn't very involved there.

    Or, they may have had a problem with the SSPX in the past (as I did), or maybe no other option is available where they live, such as no SSPX, independent, or Resistance chapel is available (or something like that).
    Assumptions get no one anywhere.

    The SSPX "still think that they HAVE to be attached to the "official church."

    So do some resistance (i.e. fr. Pfeiffer).

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #81 on: February 11, 2020, 03:46:56 PM »
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  • Unless this Fr. Carley has been appointed by his diocesan NO superior, he should not be called a pastor.
    ---------

    Is that enough examples for you?

    It is clear most sspx chapels use the words churches, parishes and pastors in describing themselves. It is a big deal because it goes against what ABL taught and it goes against what the SSPX what created as: missionaries.

    It is deceit, plain and simple.

    Please explain what you mean by the SSPX being created as "Missionaries," because I don't recall that Archbishop Lefebvre himself used that descriptor for SSPX.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #82 on: February 11, 2020, 04:53:30 PM »
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  • The problem I have had is not a sede having trouble at an R&R chapel, but an R&R having trouble at a sede chapel.
    Assuming the R  + R in question is comfortable in conscience assiting/communing in a sede chapel, what Ladislaus said would still hold.  You don't go into someone's house and be disruptive.  And these men *are* priests (even if you think they're illicit) so they're still due respect on that front. 

    Whether the R + R should go to the sede chapel is another question, and one I don't really even feel 100% comfortable answering for myself, let alone someone  else


    Offline ARMCHAIR Theologian

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #83 on: February 11, 2020, 05:32:03 PM »
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  • Greatly appreciate the  help from LADISLAUS AND ST. PETER.

    THANK YOU.

    Offline donkath

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #84 on: February 11, 2020, 07:19:56 PM »
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  • Quote
    It is clear most sspx chapels use the words churches, parishes and pastors in describing themselves. It is a big deal because it goes against what ABL taught and it goes against what the SSPX what created as: missionaries
    They were always called Mission Centres
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #85 on: February 11, 2020, 07:22:27 PM »
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  • Please explain what you mean by the SSPX being created as "Missionaries," because I don't recall that Archbishop Lefebvre himself used that descriptor for SSPX.
    Research and read.
    The SSPX was set up as a missionary order.  That is how it was able to have chapels (mission centers) all over the globe.


    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #86 on: February 11, 2020, 07:27:50 PM »
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  • Assuming the R  + R in question is comfortable in conscience assiting/communing in a sede chapel, what Ladislaus said would still hold.  You don't go into someone's house and be disruptive.  And these men *are* priests (even if you think they're illicit) so they're still due respect on that front.

    Whether the R + R should go to the sede chapel is another question, and one I don't really even feel 100% comfortable answering for myself, let alone someone  else
    What I have found is that the sedes don't want anyone but sedes at their chapel, period.

    Offline leonn

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #87 on: February 11, 2020, 07:33:49 PM »
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  • Precisely, Leonn, this is exactly what is happening.
    This is the predicament in which we now find ourselves.
    As Bishop Williamson keeps saying, "The Shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered".
    Unity and authority in the Church come down from the Pope, and when he goes astray, all chaos breaks loose, as we can see.
    It is worth reading the last two Eleison Comments about this which are posted on this site
    It seems only a miracle will restore the Church now, and the message of Fatima gives us that hope.
    Division, however, is the history of the Church. Look at the tens of thousands of sects that have split off all down through the ages, even in better times when authority was faithful. Likewise, it is the history of the SSPX. I think many people don't realise just how many divisions there have been, scarcely a year going by without some group leaving to the left or the right. So too now with the Resistance. Alas, when human beings are involved, it is impossible for it to be otherwise. Our consolation is that, even though the truth be overshadowed, God will never abandon any soul of good will that earnestly seeks Him. Let us take heed lest we fall, and be full of charity for our neighbor and our erring brethren in these confused times.
    Thank you Plenus Venter. Your comment does help, but also causes much pain as I read it.
    Our Lord says in Sacred Scripture “Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand” (Matt xii: 25). If the Resistance continues to divide and split, then in a short span of time, there will be no unity. And a similar situation will arise with those who currently attend SSPX and other traditional chapels. But it seems unlikely that Rome will lose unity, even though they have gone down the slippery slope of modernism. Isn’t unity one of the four marks of Our Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. How should one explain this conundrum?

    Offline leonn

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #88 on: February 11, 2020, 07:35:48 PM »
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  • Transient clerics can have many issues. This is why the Church, in her wisdom, says there should be none of them.

    St. Peter, what or who is a transient cleric? I have not come across this order. Are these independent priests?

    Offline leonn

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #89 on: February 11, 2020, 07:42:56 PM »
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  • It is not the norm for the adherents of SSPX chapels to call their chapels a "parish". Archbishop Lefebvre was careful to make the distinction, because he did not intend to set up a counter-church. If some SSPX adherents make the mistake of calling their SSPX chapel a "Parish," it's not the end of the world.

    In a crisis situation, the regular and new code of canon law does not necessarily apply. I don't believe that the new code of canon law addresses times of crisis. Do you agree that we are in a crisis situation?

    St. Peter
    Quote
    The SSPX was legitimately established as a missionary order.  They sometimes forget that, and call their chapels "parishes".  And, yes, canon law applies to them.


    St. Peter and Meg, you bring up two different views, i.e. the applicability and non-applicability of canon law in a crisis situation. Do you know the views of the Priest/Bishops with regards to applicability/non-applicability of canon law among different Traditional groups (SSPX, Resistance, Sedevacantism)? Are only some canon laws applied while others are not applied? For example, CMRI and SSPX both appeal to supplied jurisdiction, but both diverge on their views about the Popes after Vatican II.