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Author Topic: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?  (Read 26580 times)

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Offline Plenus Venter

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Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2020, 08:32:12 PM »
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  • Your comment poses a situation. The Resistance priests say that they must keep a distance from SSPX because it is now placing itself under Rome, who is misusing its authority to destroy faith and morals. What is to prevent a portion of the Resistance priests to keep a distance from other Resistance priests for a variety of reasons (e.g. not upholding the teachings of ABL as they interpret, and disagreements on discipline); for example, the situation that arose in the 1980s leading to the split between one portion of the Resistance clergy (now called Sedevacantists) and with another portion of the Resistance clergy (i.e. SSPX)
    Precisely, Leonn, this is exactly what is happening.
    This is the predicament in which we now find ourselves.
    As Bishop Williamson keeps saying, "The Shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered".
    Unity and authority in the Church come down from the Pope, and when he goes astray, all chaos breaks loose, as we can see.
    It is worth reading the last two Eleison Comments about this which are posted on this site
    It seems only a miracle will restore the Church now, and the message of Fatima gives us that hope.
    Division, however, is the history of the Church. Look at the tens of thousands of sects that have split off all down through the ages, even in better times when authority was faithful. Likewise, it is the history of the SSPX. I think many people don't realise just how many divisions there have been, scarcely a year going by without some group leaving to the left or the right. So too now with the Resistance. Alas, when human beings are involved, it is impossible for it to be otherwise. Our consolation is that, even though the truth be overshadowed, God will never abandon any soul of good will that earnestly seeks Him. Let us take heed lest we fall, and be full of charity for our neighbor and our erring brethren in these confused times.

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #61 on: February 10, 2020, 11:47:09 PM »
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  • Precisely, Leonn, this is exactly what is happening.
    This is the predicament in which we now find ourselves.
    As Bishop Williamson keeps saying, "The Shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered".
    Unity and authority in the Church come down from the Pope, and when he goes astray, all chaos breaks loose, as we can see.
    It is worth reading the last two Eleison Comments about this which are posted on this site
    It seems only a miracle will restore the Church now, and the message of Fatima gives us that hope.
    Division, however, is the history of the Church. Look at the tens of thousands of sects that have split off all down through the ages, even in better times when authority was faithful. Likewise, it is the history of the SSPX. I think many people don't realise just how many divisions there have been, scarcely a year going by without some group leaving to the left or the right. So too now with the Resistance. Alas, when human beings are involved, it is impossible for it to be otherwise. Our consolation is that, even though the truth be overshadowed, God will never abandon any soul of good will that earnestly seeks Him. Let us take heed lest we fall, and be full of charity for our neighbor and our erring brethren in these confused times.
    The chaos and especially, the divisions extending all the way through down to the Resistance, Sedevacantists, and even "independent" priests have left me without Mass, Sacraments, and anyone with whom to pray.  I'm a sheep wandering alone in the wilderness and barren lands.  Those representing themselves as shepherds have proven to be wolves.  


    Offline donkath

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #62 on: February 11, 2020, 12:04:04 AM »
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  • Quote
    The chaos and especially, the divisions extending all the way through down to the Resistance, Sedevacantists, and even "independent" priests have left me without Mass, Sacraments, and anyone with whom to pray.  I'm a sheep wandering alone in the wilderness and barren lands.  Those representing themselves as shepherds have proven to be wolves.

     

    Amen to that Seraphina.


    Our Faith can be kept alive if we pray the Mass each day in union with all the Masses that please our Lord.   We may not have access to those Masses but they are there.  God promised there would be true Masses offered til the end of time.  

    Consecrating oneself and resting within the Immaculate Heart of Mary will keep us safe from the devil’s wiles as we await Rome’s inevitable return to the true Faith.  In the meantime nothing can remove ours.

    The present crisis compels us to deepen our Faith.  God never fails to provide.

    ..
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #63 on: February 11, 2020, 07:06:02 AM »
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  • Thank you St. Peter.

    If the 1983 code and the 1917 code refer to the same canons, then they would be speaking about a situation where clerics are part of a particular church or personal prelature, and a diocese.

    From what I understand, SSPX describes its places of prayer and worship as chapels and not as churches. It is not clear if the places of worship among other traditional groups (Independent, Sedevacantist, etc) are also called chapels or churches.  Do you know if SSPX chapels fall under a diocese? Will the canon laws (Can. 265, 283 #1) apply to chapels?
    I grow weary of assumptions on this forum and will not entertain them.

    If you want to know what the canons say and refer to, read them.

    The SSPX was legitimately established as a missionary order.  They sometimes forget that, and call their chapels "parishes".  And, yes, canon law applies to them.

    Fr. Pfeiffer, his group, Fr. Hewko, Fr. Raphael, etc, are "transient clerics" as they have no bishop and are not part of a properly established order, diocese, etc.  


    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #64 on: February 11, 2020, 07:15:00 AM »
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  • The chaos and especially, the divisions extending all the way through down to the Resistance, Sedevacantists, and even "independent" priests have left me without Mass, Sacraments, and anyone with whom to pray.  I'm a sheep wandering alone in the wilderness and barren lands.  Those representing themselves as shepherds have proven to be wolves.  
    Well said, Seraphina!
    I encourage you to widen your search and have faith that God will provide, in His time.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #65 on: February 11, 2020, 08:16:08 AM »
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  • I grow weary of assumptions on this forum and will not entertain them.

    If you want to know what the canons say and refer to, read them.

    The SSPX was legitimately established as a missionary order.  They sometimes forget that, and call their chapels "parishes".  And, yes, canon law applies to them.

    Fr. Pfeiffer, his group, Fr. Hewko, Fr. Raphael, etc, are "transient clerics" as they have no bishop and are not part of a properly established order, diocese, etc.  

    It is not the norm for the adherents of SSPX chapels to call their chapels a "parish". Archbishop Lefebvre was careful to make the distinction, because he did not intend to set up a counter-church. If some SSPX adherents make the mistake of calling their SSPX chapel a "Parish," it's not the end of the world. 

    In a crisis situation, the regular and new code of canon law does not necessarily apply. I don't believe that the new code of canon law addresses times of crisis. Do you agree that we are in a crisis situation?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline ARMCHAIR Theologian

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #66 on: February 11, 2020, 08:51:02 AM »
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  • Fr. Pfeiffer, his group, Fr. Hewko, Fr. Raphael, etc, are "transient clerics" as they have no bishop and are not part of a properly established order, diocese, etc.  
    I recently separated from our chapel of one priest named by you here, and we are wondering if you can give us some advice on the problems with "transient clerics" so that we will be armed in the future and not get duped again.  The most noticeable problem was that the lone priest leader seems to take on a role that he is the only and high authority and all must fall into line with all his OPINIONS no matter what, or else.  This has also been almost radically the situation that is expected by all the sheep in the group, or else.  It became very uncomfortable in that the sheep seemed to be choosing to be under the emotional control of the priest without thinking in a healthy ways for themselves.  Also, the sheep knowing the mindset of the priest in all things, would seek validation from the priest by all the ways a child would do so with their teacher, sports coach, or other leader they wish to impress.

    It reminds me of people in protestant sects that I have talked to who nearly always regard their elders, pastors, etc.
    as the end all authority no matter what is the situation.  I always refer to this type of situation as that their leader is like unto a pope to them.

    Thank you very much for your help to further reflect on "transient clerics" from anyone else here at Cathinfo who has any advice to share.

    Offline Praeter

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #67 on: February 11, 2020, 09:15:15 AM »
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  • The chaos and especially, the divisions extending all the way through down to the Resistance, Sedevacantists, and even "independent" priests have left me without Mass, Sacraments, and anyone with whom to pray.  I'm a sheep wandering alone in the wilderness and barren lands.  Those representing themselves as shepherds have proven to be wolves.  

    When all else fails, try the Roman Catholic Church.  It is indefectible and the good priests within are far superior to those without.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #68 on: February 11, 2020, 09:18:31 AM »
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  • I recently separated from our chapel of one priest named by you here, and we are wondering if you can give us some advice on the problems with "transient clerics" so that we will be armed in the future and not get duped again.  The most noticeable problem was that the lone priest leader seems to take on a role that he is the only and high authority and all must fall into line with all his OPINIONS no matter what, or else.  This has also been almost radically the situation that is expected by all the sheep in the group, or else.  It became very uncomfortable in that the sheep seemed to be choosing to be under the emotional control of the priest without thinking in a healthy ways for themselves.  Also, the sheep knowing the mindset of the priest in all things, would seek validation from the priest by all the ways a child would do so with their teacher, sports coach, or other leader they wish to impress.

    It reminds me of people in protestant sects that I have talked to who nearly always regard their elders, pastors, etc.
    as the end all authority no matter what is the situation.  I always refer to this type of situation as that their leader is like unto a pope to them.

    Thank you very much for your help to further reflect on "transient clerics" from anyone else here at Cathinfo who has any advice to share.

    We obviously need to respect our priests, and they do have a certain amount of authority that comes merely from their exalted state due to their Ordination and operating in persona Christi.  But they do not have any canonical or doctrinal authority.  So, for instance, if a priest preaches something from the pulpit I don't agree with, I might talk to him about it, but I will not go around the parish rabble-rousing against the priest.  So, for instance, if a Priest is R&R, while I am sedevacantist, I'm not going to go around his chapel promoting sedevacantism, or leave pro-sedevacantist pamphlets all over the church, etc.  If someone asks me my opinion, I would give it honestly, but I would not cause issues at the chapel.  But I do not feel any obligation to become R&R myself, since he doesn't have any authority to impose his opinion on consciences.  That's where his authority ends, IMO.

    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #69 on: February 11, 2020, 11:17:06 AM »
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  • We obviously need to respect our priests, and they do have a certain amount of authority that comes merely from their exalted state due to their Ordination and operating in persona Christi.  But they do not have any canonical or doctrinal authority.  So, for instance, if a priest preaches something from the pulpit I don't agree with, I might talk to him about it, but I will not go around the parish rabble-rousing against the priest.  So, for instance, if a Priest is R&R, while I am sedevacantist, I'm not going to go around his chapel promoting sedevacantism, or leave pro-sedevacantist pamphlets all over the church, etc.  If someone asks me my opinion, I would give it honestly, but I would not cause issues at the chapel.  But I do not feel any obligation to become R&R myself, since he doesn't have any authority to impose his opinion on consciences.  That's where his authority ends, IMO.
    I agree. Also remember that their jurisdiction is very limited, so they cannot act as a regular parish priest.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #70 on: February 11, 2020, 11:45:14 AM »
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  • When all else fails, try the Roman Catholic Church.  It is indefectible and the good priests within are far superior to those without.

    Are you saying that Traditional chapels aren't part of the Catholic Church, outside of which one can't be saved?

    In other threads you were asking people where the One True visible Church (with the Four Marks) is to be found.

    As the moderator of this forum, I demand an answer: Where do you go to Mass?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #71 on: February 11, 2020, 12:10:59 PM »
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  • Are you saying that Traditional chapels aren't part of the Catholic Church, outside of which one can't be saved?

    In other threads you were asking people where the One True visible Church (with the Four Marks) is to be found.

    As the moderator of this forum, I demand an answer: Where do you go to Mass?

    Praeter has stated before that he doesn't believe that priests without explicit jurisdiction can validly hear Confessions.  So, for instance, he would hold that the Confessions heard by Resistance priests are invalid.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #72 on: February 11, 2020, 12:25:47 PM »
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  • Praeter has stated before that he doesn't believe that priests without explicit jurisdiction can validly hear Confessions.  So, for instance, he would hold that the Confessions heard by Resistance priests are invalid.

    Several CI members have a problem with poche (and he drives them nuts), because he attends the Novus Ordo. But that doesn't bother me nearly as much as those who SEE the Crisis in the Church -- they believe in the Crisis -- yet they reject the whole Traditional Movement on principle, and attend the Novus Ordo (or stay home alone, not attending Mass anywhere). Such people vocally criticize the Trad movement as being illegitimate, and not an option for Catholics.

    Those who merely attend the Novus Ordo out of ignorance and/or stupidity can't drive me nuts, or I'd be nuts! After all, there are close to a billion "Catholics" most of which attend the post-Vatican II protestantized Mass. If I let them get to me, I'd be insane already.

    What bothers me is those who claim to see the Crisis, and by all calculations SHOULD BE a Traditional Catholic, attending Mass at SOME Traditional Catholic chapel somewhere -- pick a group. But yet they don't. They reject the legitimacy of the Traditional Movement, talking about jurisdiction, the visibility of the Church, etc.

    There is no "group" I believe in more strongly than the Traditional Movement, which started immediately after Vatican II. That is the group I identify with, and will defend to my dying breath. That is why I supported the SSPX for a long time, and why I support the Resistance today. They were/are merely faithful branches, sane and prudent implementations, of that movement.
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #73 on: February 11, 2020, 01:34:26 PM »
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  • Several CI members have a problem with poche (and he drives them nuts), because he attends the Novus Ordo. But that doesn't bother me nearly as much as those who SEE the Crisis in the Church -- they believe in the Crisis -- yet they reject the whole Traditional Movement on principle, and attend the Novus Ordo (or stay home alone, not attending Mass anywhere). Such people vocally criticize the Trad movement as being illegitimate, and not an option for Catholics.

    Those who merely attend the Novus Ordo out of ignorance and/or stupidity can't drive me nuts, or I'd be nuts! After all, there are close to a billion "Catholics" most of which attend the post-Vatican II protestantized Mass. If I let them get to me, I'd be insane already.

    What bothers me is those who claim to see the Crisis, and by all calculations SHOULD BE a Traditional Catholic, attending Mass at SOME Traditional Catholic chapel somewhere -- pick a group. But yet they don't. They reject the legitimacy of the Traditional Movement, talking about jurisdiction, the visibility of the Church, etc.

    There is no "group" I believe in more strongly than the Traditional Movement, which started immediately after Vatican II. That is the group I identify with, and will defend to my dying breath. That is why I supported the SSPX for a long time, and why I support the Resistance today. They were/are merely faithful branches, sane and prudent implementations, of that movement.
    What about people who go to eastern rite chapels?  FSSP?  Latin mass in the diocese?
    I see no reason per se why there’s any inconsistency between any of these and belief in a crisis.
    Even if it’s not the right answer, I could see someone with no good options thinking some/many NOs are better than absolutely nothing also not being inconsistent with that belief 

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer has lost his mind?
    « Reply #74 on: February 11, 2020, 01:37:54 PM »
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  • What about people who go to eastern rite chapels?  FSSP?  Latin mass in the diocese?
    I see no reason per se why there’s any inconsistency between any of these and belief in a crisis.
    Even if it’s not the right answer, I could see someone with no good options thinking some/many NOs are better than absolutely nothing also not being inconsistent with that belief

    Those who stay in the Novus Ordo, FSSP, diocesan Indult, etc. at least don't have a problem with the Conciliar Church. They see no major Crisis, just a few "implementation hiccups" that took place at Vatican II. So their truck/commerce with the Conciliar Church is understandable.

    The group I describe -- dogmatic home aloners -- who stay aloof from the whole world of Tradition, despite a full acknowledgement to the Crisis in the Church and the evils of Vatican II, is sick and boggles my mind. It's the worst kind of error.
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