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Author Topic: Fr Hoopes Mess  (Read 3407 times)

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Re: Fr Hoopes Mess
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2026, 06:11:56 PM »
Also I'm not familiar with the Decem tractatus astronomiae but what I suspect is that it wasn't actually banned, it mentions local inquisitions which were notoriously trigger happy, like the well known story of most of Saint Teresa's library being confiscated and burned.

What I suspect is that that priest in question just believes or has interest in astrology insofar as it's compatible with catholic teaching, that is, that planets influence men without violating free will, just as we all know summer inclines toward fornication in a way winter doesn't, but everyone still has free will. As much as this might grind people's sensibilites it's something that a Catholic can hold if he so desires, just as any other unpopular sciences like phrenology.

It's by the way the distinction St. Aquinas and St. Albert make and it applies to any such sciences.

And truth nuke is that what a lot of people think is superstitious is completely unrelated to the Catholic definition, true superstition is calling upon a demon to do your bidding or thinking that if you wear X amulet for three days and pray X prayer you are guaranteed to become rich. Or infringing upon free will "If I wear this stone they're guaranteed to hire me at that job".
But merely un-modern, un-materalistic and un-empiricistic practices are not superstitious per se, believing that thyme protects you from lightning or that wearing an emerald makes you have more energy is not superstitious. Someone can very well say "Well of course I know there's no easily measurable link between thyme and lightning, I just reject the idea that that's the only way to truth: they have a hidden affinity / sympathy that makes them repel implanted by God, I believe that from tradition and Hildegard."

Which by the way is the way most Catholics throughout history have thought about the world.

Re: Fr Hoopes Mess
« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2026, 07:44:19 PM »
Yeah, it's a big conspiracy, we're actually all the same person :incense: 
This could easily be true as well. I'm pretty sure this is the only account on CI that runs defense for Cabbage's posts.


Re: Fr Hoopes Mess
« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2026, 08:11:22 PM »
If the crux of the matter is "Were the Thuc consecrations all valid vis a vis his mind?", for Tom to say "I don't think they were since he acted quite erratically and strangely and I take that as a sign of a deranged mind" and try to bring up arguments, be they good or bad, is not slander or a sin, it's just one of the opinions on the question, just like when people argued whether Francis was a formal heretic, it's not slander, even though being a heretic is obviously bad.
Using this same logic, don't you think that the exact same argument could be made regarding the last few years of Bp. Williamson's life? In a way, even more so, since the internet made it far easier to make public certain statements about Medjugorje and Garabandal? Could HE +Williamson also be accused of senility with regards to his clerical actions in the last few years he was alive? Was he not performing Consecrations that were only made public after the fact and during a timeframe that he could have been accused of not having all of his wits about him?

Please understand that I have much respect for His Excellency, Bp Williamson. I only point this out to highlight that many of the same things used to slander Abp Thuc could easily be applied to Bp Williamson as well. And even though I'm just a crazy Sedevacantist, I would defend Bp Williamson in the light of him being a man likely recognizing that he was in the sunset of his earthly life, and intending to do as much as possible to preserve the priesthood, perhaps setting aside the prudence he may have once exercised here and there. And should there someday be some Kosik style characters claiming, years after his death, that they were consecrated by Bp Williamson, I would not take that at face value, but in respect to +Williamson, reserve any judgement until sufficient evidence had been produced.

Just wanted to mention that since, even though many that knew him have stated that Abp Thuc was not senile, but very sharp during the timeframe of his consecrations of +Des Lauriers/ +Carmona/ +Zamora, his mental state is still questioned. And I find that accusation particularly interesting from those who would never tolerate such a charge being brought against Bp Williamson. 

Side note, I also find it pretty funny that Bp Kelly and the SSPV also sought out an elderly, retired bishop to maintain their line despite their objections to Abp Thuc, lol! The irony is pretty thick there. And btw, yes, I do consider the SSPV line valid. I just find that to be quite interesting.

Re: Fr Hoopes Mess
« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2026, 09:30:32 PM »
Using this same logic, don't you think that the exact same argument could be made regarding the last few years of Bp. Williamson's life? In a way, even more so, since the internet made it far easier to make public certain statements about Medjugorje and Garabandal? Could HE +Williamson also be accused of senility with regards to his clerical actions in the last few years he was alive? Was he not performing Consecrations that were only made public after the fact and during a timeframe that he could have been accused of not having all of his wits about him?

Please understand that I have much respect for His Excellency, Bp Williamson. I only point this out to highlight that many of the same things used to slander Abp Thuc could easily be applied to Bp Williamson as well. And even though I'm just a crazy Sedevacantist, I would defend Bp Williamson in the light of him being a man likely recognizing that he was in the sunset of his earthly life, and intending to do as much as possible to preserve the priesthood, perhaps setting aside the prudence he may have once exercised here and there. And should there someday be some Kosik style characters claiming, years after his death, that they were consecrated by Bp Williamson, I would not take that at face value, but in respect to +Williamson, reserve any judgement until sufficient evidence had been produced.

Just wanted to mention that since, even though many that knew him have stated that Abp Thuc was not senile, but very sharp during the timeframe of his consecrations of +Des Lauriers/ +Carmona/ +Zamora, his mental state is still questioned. And I find that accusation particularly interesting from those who would never tolerate such a charge being brought against Bp Williamson.

Side note, I also find it pretty funny that Bp Kelly and the SSPV also sought out an elderly, retired bishop to maintain their line despite their objections to Abp Thuc, lol! The irony is pretty thick there. And btw, yes, I do consider the SSPV line valid. I just find that to be quite interesting.

Thank you SR!

This is an overdue compararison of the Consecrations of HE and the Archbishop.

 Although we could say Archbishop Thuc was not from a Protestant, but noble Viet Catholic family and in his Catholic French formation he achieved academic excellence. 

And +W's uncomfortable flight from Argentina was not comparable to Archbishop Thuc's flight from Vietnam into exile, poverty and  gov't./Church persecutions. 

Re: Fr Hoopes Mess
« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2026, 09:52:18 PM »
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