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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: SeanJohnson on October 06, 2020, 01:30:05 PM

Title: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: SeanJohnson on October 06, 2020, 01:30:05 PM
Excerpt of a June 19 conference transcribed on the French Resistance forum by "Joseph:"


"He (Bishop Vigano) takes note of what is in the Church, but for us it is not new.

I would not want to be disrespectful, but for us, priests of the Fraternity, it is touching and it is naive; because we have been in there for 50 years.

So we are happy about it, of course! But it's like the youngest member of the family who finally realizes that the world is bad.

He's an overzealous neophyte.

He says what he says, it's very good; it goes very far!

They (Msgr. Schneider and Msgr. Vigano) speak loud and clear, they lament, they are sometimes harder than we are. But what do they do?

What has disturbed Rome? When did Rome launch anathemas on Archbishop Lefebvre?  

It was not when he criticized religious freedom, or during the Lille Mass. It was when he made priests and consecrated bishops.

Archbishop Lefebvre left something behind. Not words, not wind.

I am very happy to hear Mgr Schneider and Mgr Vigano, but I say to myself "what are they going to do?".

Because they will die one day, but what will they leave behind? Words that will be blown away by the wind? Or seminaries, bishops... !

These are voices that are welcome in the Church, but they are only words of people who are on the sidelines.

That's very good, but I'm afraid it's sterile."

https://resistance.vraiforum.com/t1262-Puanteur-pharisaique.htm


Original (French) conference here:

https://laportelatine.org/actualites/actualites-generales/faut-il-encore-prier-pour-le-pape
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Meg on October 06, 2020, 01:54:34 PM
Thanks for posting this Sean. I saw it also on the Non Possumus blog, and was going to post a link, but glad that you beat me to it.

Fr. Gleize says that +ABL only received anathemas from Rome after he consecrated the four bishops. But actually, +ABL was suspended long before that because he wouldn't close down his Econe seminary. And why was Econe a problem? Because +ABL strongly spoke out against the Vll council. But those were just words, right, Fr. Gleize?

The truth must be spoken even by those who do not have seminaries and priests, such as the SSPX has. Why does Fr. Gleize think that only they are entitled to speak the Truth? Actually, the SSPX rarely speaks out against Vatican ll anymore. I think it is they who are jealous of all of the attention that +Vigano is getting. Yet the SSPX doesn't have the guts to do the same.
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Clemens Maria on October 06, 2020, 01:58:10 PM
It’s a little early to be making those kind of analyses, don’t you think?  Archbishop Lefebvre didn’t do anything for 5 years after the council.  So maybe give Vigano another couple of years before criticizing his lack of organization.  But probably Fr Gleize will be found to be correct.  But who knows at this point?
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Matthew on October 06, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
He's an overzealous neophyte.

He says what he says, it's very good; it goes very far!

They (Msgr. Schneider and Msgr. Vigano) speak loud and clear, they lament, they are sometimes harder than we are. But what do they do?

What has disturbed Rome? When did Rome launch anathemas on Archbishop Lefebvre?  

It was not when he criticized religious freedom, or during the Lille Mass. It was when he made priests and consecrated bishops.

Archbishop Lefebvre left something behind. Not words, not wind.

I am very happy to hear Mgr Schneider and Mgr Vigano, but I say to myself "what are they going to do?".

I can see both sides of this argument.
This man makes some very good points -- when is Msgr. Vigano going to really rattle Rome's cage? Words are fine, but let's see some action!

On the other hand, if words (speaking out) was equal to "nothing" than censorship wouldn't be a thing! The pen is mightier than the sword. The pen (ideas, words) can inspire dozens, hundreds, even thousands of people to those coveted fruitful "ACTIONS" you're looking for.

And so...

Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Mr G on October 06, 2020, 02:22:11 PM
Excerpt of a June 19 conference transcribed on the French Resistance forum by "Joseph:"


....


"He (Bishop Vigano) takes note of what is in the Church, but for us it is not new. [For some of the younger priests and many of the faithful that were born into the SSPX, this is new]

I would not want to be disrespectful, but for us, priests of the Fraternity, it is touching and it is naive; because we have been in there for 50 years. [True, you have been - past tense. Where are you now SSPX? ]

So we are happy about it, of course! But it's like the youngest member of the family who finally realizes that the world is bad.

He's an overzealous neophyte. [At least he is zealous]

He says what he says, it's very good; it goes very far! [At least you admit that, but you would never know that be reading the SSPX websites]

They (Msgr. Schneider and Msgr. Vigano) speak loud and clear, they lament, they are sometimes harder than we are. But what do they do? [They speak and warn of the dangers, which the SSPX does not do]

What has disturbed Rome? When did Rome launch anathemas on Archbishop Lefebvre?  

It was not when he criticized religious freedom, or during the Lille Mass. It was when he made priests and consecrated bishops.

Archbishop Lefebvre left something behind. Not words, not wind.

I am very happy to hear Mgr Schneider and Mgr Vigano, but I say to myself "what are they going to do?". [ Ask them. Offer to help.]

Because they will die one day, but what will they leave behind? Words that will be blown away by the wind? Or seminaries, bishops... ! [And you SSPX, will you consecrate bishops?]

These are voices that are welcome in the Church, but they are only words of people who are on the sidelines. [such as many priests and faithful of the SSPX, who are slipping from the sidelines back into the NWO]

That's very good, but I'm afraid it's sterile." [If it wakes up the SSPX to get back into the fight, then it is not sterile, we shall see as time goes on ]
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: SeanJohnson on October 06, 2020, 02:47:05 PM
Thanks for posting this Sean. I saw it also on the Non Possumus blog, and was going to post a link, but glad that you beat me to it.

Fr. Gleize says that +ABL only received anathemas from Rome after he consecrated the four bishops. But actually, +ABL was suspended long before that because he wouldn't close down his Econe seminary. And why was Econe a problem? Because +ABL strongly spoke out against the Vll council. But those were just words, right, Fr. Gleize?

The truth must be spoken even by those who do not have seminaries and priests, such as the SSPX has. Why does Fr. Gleize think that only they are entitled to speak the Truth? Actually, the SSPX rarely speaks out against Vatican ll anymore. I think it is they who are jealous of all of the attention that +Vigano is getting. Yet the SSPX doesn't have the guts to do the same.

Well, technically, Lefebvre was suspended after the 1976 priestly ordinations (which he was warned no to do), so in this respect Fr. Gleize is consistent and accurate as regards his words vs actions distinction between Lefebvre and Vigano.

Note carefully, today, however, that SSPX priestly ordinations are no longer a problem for Rome, and ask yourself why that might be.

Clearly, it is because the once problematic words of the old SSPX, no longer spoken, are no longer problematic, and consequently, it matters not to the Roman modernists how many SSPX priests get ordained, if they will continue to be of this branded/muzzled variety.

Fr. Gleize doesn't want to realize that since the SSPX salt has lost its savor, God is giving the Church new champions (e.g., Resistance, Vigano):

"The first shall be last, and the last shall be first."

PS: Note the slick placement of Vigano and Schneider on the same footing by Fr. Gleize, when in fact, the two are as polarized as Archbishop Lefebvre and Cardinal Ratzinger: Schneider believes the council can and should be saved, whereas Vigano believes it is irreparably riddled with error and possibly not even a valid ecuмenical council of the Church!
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: PAT317 on October 06, 2020, 03:07:59 PM
Fr. Gleize says that +ABL only received anathemas from Rome after he consecrated the four bishops. But actually, +ABL was suspended long before that because he wouldn't close down his Econe seminary. And why was Econe a problem? Because +ABL strongly spoke out against the Vll council. But those were just words, right, Fr. Gleize?
.
Well, technically, Lefebvre was suspended after the 1976 priestly ordinations (which he was warned no to do), so in this respect Fr. Gleize is consistent and accurate as regards his words vs actions distinction between Lefebvre and Vigano.
.
Actually, +Lefebvre was told to shut down his seminary in 1975, after he wrote his famous "Declaration" of Nov. 1974.

 - 21 November 1974 Mgr. Lefebvre wrote his Declaration.
In this Declaration, he stated:
Quote
...we refuse...and have always refused to follow the Rome of Neo-Modernist and Neo-Protestant tendencies...
No authority, not even the highest in the hierarchy, can compel us to abandon or diminish our Catholic faith, so clearly expressed and professed by the Church's Magisterium for nineteen centuries.
 - A statement condemning those who adhere to the Old Mass made by the French episcopate on 14 November 1974 was certainly aimed against Ecône, for at the same time the bishops let it be known that they would not accept any priests from Ecône in their dioceses.

- Feb./Mar. 1975 - Mgr. Lefebvre met the Commission of 3 Cardinals 
- March 1975 Mgr. Mamie writes a letter suppressing the Society and the Seminary with the approval of the Commission of Cardinals

So, technically, he was asked to suppress his seminary because of his words the previous November. 

Although one could argue that it was also because of his "action" of refusing to offer the New Mass.  

Nevertheless, I find your points well-taken. 

Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: PAT317 on October 06, 2020, 03:19:19 PM
Quote
What has disturbed Rome? When did Rome launch anathemas on Archbishop Lefebvre?  

It was not when he criticized religious freedom, or during the Lille Mass. It was when he made priests and consecrated bishops.
.
Also, he already made priests in the early 1970s.
.
In Dr. White's bio of +W, it is noted that several times in 1974 when TV crews wanted to do a program on Econe, +ABL chose Richard Williamson to be "the face of the seminary" for those programs.  Even though there were ordinations in 1975 after the seminary had been ordered to be closed, it was the 1976 ordinations which Rome tried very hard to stop, the year Richard Williamson was due to be ordained.  It was after those ordinations that Paul VI suspended +ABL.  

[So in this sense, yes, it was due to his action of at least ordaining someone like Richard Williamson that year (in spite of ordaining men in previous years without penalty), and his refusal to offer the New Mass, that NewRome attacked him.]
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: PAT317 on October 06, 2020, 03:29:54 PM
It’s a little early to be making those kind of analyses, don’t you think?  Archbishop Lefebvre didn’t do anything for 5 years after the council.  So maybe give Vigano another couple of years before criticizing his lack of organization.
.
I would hardly describe it as "didn't do anything" during those 5 years.  If people would take the time to read his biography, they would know he did plenty.  Even if all he did was his work on the Ottaviani Intervention (https://sspx.org/en/ottaviani-intervention), I wouldn't call it "doing nothing".  
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Ladislaus on October 06, 2020, 03:37:44 PM
I don't get this criticism.  He calls him an "overzealous" neophyte, but then criticizes him for not doing anything.

I think, despite +Vigano's "neophyte" status, he's hit the nail on the head with regard to the theological nature of the Crisis.  I don't believe the connotations of "neophyte" are appropriate.  He's certainly a "newcomer" but his thinking is quite mature.

As for being overzealous, I don't get that when the criticism is that he's done nothing.

Indeed, +Vigano should figure out what he can DO to help the Crisis, but does that make him "overzealous"?

It's also ridiculous to disparage +Vigano's theological efforts as mere "wind".  Nonsense, Father.  As Bishop Wiliamson always points out, IDEAS MATTER.  He's putting out thinking and ideas, and good solid ideas are always of benefit.  This sounds like it's coming from the same attitude Bishop Williamson criticized in the pre-Vatican II U.S. hierarchy where all they did was want to build things ... churches, schools, etc. but they cared little for solid theology and solid doctrine.
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: PAT317 on October 06, 2020, 03:40:24 PM
I don't get this criticism.  He calls him an "overzealous" neophyte, but then criticizes him for not doing anything.

I think, despite +Vigano's "neophyte" status, he's hit the nail on the head with regard to the theological nature of the Crisis.  I don't believe the connotations of "neophyte" are appropriate.  He's certainly a "newcomer" but his thinking is quite mature.

As for being overzealous, I don't get that when the criticism is that he's done nothing.

Indeed, +Vigano should figure out what he can DO to help the Crisis, but does that make him "overzealous"?
.
Well said.  
.
I think Meg may be right about the jealousy factor.  
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Clemens Maria on October 06, 2020, 05:26:40 PM
.
I would hardly describe it as "didn't do anything" during those 5 years.  If people would take the time to read his biography, they would know he did plenty.  Even if all he did was his work on the Ottaviani Intervention (https://sspx.org/en/ottaviani-intervention), I wouldn't call it "doing nothing".  
I am just accepting Fr Gleize’s definition.  If Vigano is doing nothing in his estimation then by the same measure Archbishop Lefebvre did nothing until he started taking students.  But if you want to say that writing and speaking against V2 is doing something then you can hardly accuse Vigano of doing nothing.  Vigano should be given more time before accusing him of being all talk.
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Nadir on October 06, 2020, 05:44:40 PM
.
I think Meg may be right about the jealousy factor.  
Indeed, and because ++Vigano is making SSPX look moribund.
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: SeanJohnson on October 06, 2020, 06:26:36 PM
I am just accepting Fr Gleize’s definition.  If Vigano is doing nothing in his estimation then by the same measure Archbishop Lefebvre did nothing until he started taking students.  But if you want to say that writing and speaking against V2 is doing something then you can hardly accuse Vigano of doing nothing.  Vigano should be given more time before accusing him of being all talk.

Unfortunately, when Archbishop Lefebvre opened the seminary in 1970, he would only have been about 65 years-old.

Archbishop Vigano is already 80 years-old.

It might just be that teaching the truth in the wake of SSPX silence might be all that he has been called to do, to sustain us.

But if not, he had better get going, as time is not on his side )though he seems to possess vigor and good health to all outward appearances.
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Plenus Venter on October 12, 2020, 12:04:22 AM
But what do they do?...


That's very good, but I'm afraid it's sterile."...

He cries wolf! That is what Archbishop Vigano does! One of the duties of the good shepherd.
 
How odd (or evil) that this should be so little valued as "sterile" by the learned theologian of the SSPX. But is it any surprise given that he, along with most of his confreres, so meekly submitted to Bishop Fellay who informed us in a conference printed in the Angelus some years ago "Rome has asked that we criticize less. And I agree!"

No wonder he calls Archbishop Vigano "over-zealous". It's a wonder he didn't tell him to hold his tongue. After all, the entire Church is aware of the rot in the Church and the evil of Vatican II, because the SSPX announces it so boldly, right?

Compare this pitiful priggishness (or more truly this diabolical attack) with the congratulatory encouragement and support of the Resistance bishops' declaration standing in awe and admiration of a Prince of the Church who could make such lucid analyses and give such timely warnings after so many years immersed in Conciliarism. How inappropriate to compare this with the life work of Archbishop Lefebvre. A far more pertinent comparison is with the cowardice of the delinquent sons of Archbishop Lefebvre who have all but abandoned his fight against the evil. They prefer instead just to be good, to be "lovers, not fighters".
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Plenus Venter on October 12, 2020, 01:07:49 AM
COMMENTARY BY NON-POSSUMUS:

Father Gleize is a professor of theology at Ecône. He saw well the liberal drift of the SSPX and the betrayal of the Chapter of 2012, but for reasons that escape us, and probably out of admiration for Father de Jorna, he preferred not to leave this new fraternity that resulted after the Chapter of 2012. Therefore , has chosen the "correct" path in the pluralism of this new SSPX. He maintains a speech that seems to be anti-chorus, but turns out to be chorus-minded.

He still believes in the "providential" mission of the Fraternity of Saint Pius X, although he clearly betrayed its founder in 2012. He firmly believes in it and therefore cannot imagine another practical solution to the crisis of the Church and especially drifting from Rome.

Now it happens that a bishop (Monsignor Viganò) appears who has the merit of fulfilling what is the main function of a bishop: TEACHING THE TRUTH .

And there you have our Father Gleize, all bewildered at the idea that his position might not be the correct one in practice.

Then Bishop Viganò becomes, in the eyes of this "great" theologian, someone  INGENUOUS, THE YOUNGEST OF THE FAMILY, VERY ZEALOUS NEOPHITE, HARDER THAN US .... and finally STERILE .

In addition, Father Gleize believes that he remains in the truth even though he himself justified the excesses of Bishop Fellay in 2013 in an important article published in all the official sites of the Fraternity. He also thinks that the most effective action continues while the neo-Fraternity is left with only smoking diplomacy and the abandonment of its founding principles.
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Mr G on October 30, 2020, 01:09:45 PM
"These are voices that are welcome in the Church, but they are only words of people who are on the sidelines. That's very good, but I'm afraid it's sterile." so says Fr. Gleize.

Yet who is the one that just wrote to President Trump, warning him about the NWO agenda to control the world, who is the one alerting all who would listen about the dangers of the "Great Reset"?  It ain't the SSPX!!  it should be clear by now that it is the SSXP that has become sterile. 
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: forlorn on October 30, 2020, 05:11:47 PM
"These are voices that are welcome in the Church, but they are only words of people who are on the sidelines. That's very good, but I'm afraid it's sterile." so says Fr. Gleize.

Yet who is the one that just wrote to President Trump, warning him about the NWO agenda to control the world, who is the one alerting all who would listen about the dangers of the "Great Reset"?  It ain't the SSPX!!  it should be clear by now that it is the SSXP that has become sterile.
It's good and all, but I still wish he'd put his words to action on Francis. Or at least clearly state what his position is(he seems to think V2 may be illegitimate, but hasn't explained how to determine if an EC is illegitimate; he encourages people to go to the Tridentine Mass, but hasn't condemned the NO Mass; he's said nothing about his own holy orders, etc.).
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: songbird on October 30, 2020, 09:04:01 PM
Well, here is my idea.  First it is true that all that Vigano says about the demonic destruction that has taken place and still does, is not new news.  

Next,  the New Order of Catholic Charities made a DVD (?) about Alinsky and programs inside giving to abortion and perverts, the new order solution was, "we are working on it".  Oh, they might take one or 2 programs out, BUT it isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

This is my thoughts, I think the talks and the DVD are ways of keeping the people in new order.  (you don't have to leave, stay and we will take care of things)

This is an old scheme used on the Acadians catholics in the mid 1600's in Nova Scotia.  Brits came to tell the Acadians that King George was in control of the area, BUT, it's ok, we won't hurt you.  Just give us a roof over our heads and food on our table and you can practice your faith.  While that happened ships were being made in Britain for the catholics. It took 50 years.  The ships came and brits loaded the women and children while the men were in the fields.  The catholics were dumped along the Atlantic coast to protestants who hated catholics.  Blankets on the ships were given to the Acadians and the blankets had small pox on them.  Those that died on the ships were tossed out in the ocean.

So, that is my idea.  Viagano can point the people to Indult, but they remain New Order.

So, my question still remains, what Mass is Viagano pointing the people too?  I read Tridentine, but is that indult?  my thinking is it is not pointing people to SSPX.

It also comes to mind that Pope Pius XII was asked to do the consecration of Russia.  Correct me if I am wrong, but did he not "try" twice?  And is it correct that Sr. Lucia was told, from Our Lady, that Pope Pius XII did in in "half measure".  In volume 4 of the Mystical Body of Christ, Our Lady says that God is not pleased with those who do things in half measure. 
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: donkath on October 31, 2020, 03:16:45 AM
It's good and all, but I still wish he'd put his words to action on Francis. Or at least clearly state what his position is(he seems to think V2 may be illegitimate, but hasn't explained how to determine if an EC is illegitimate; he encourages people to go to the Tridentine Mass, but hasn't condemned the NO Mass; he's said nothing about his own holy orders, etc.).
I used to think the same thing.   Bishop Williamson was crucified (with a lot of help from me I am sad to say) for advising if it was the only way a Catholic can keep her faith then he could not advise her to leave. The NO is a doubtfully valid rite, but apparently licit.    I can see that perhaps Cardinal Vigano is trying to bring such as the above woman out gradually - and not put out the flickering flame.  Priests have experienced new-generation Catholics of goodwill abanding the faith altogether.  They have to be gradually and gently led out.
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Incredulous on October 31, 2020, 04:40:31 AM
It's good and all, but I still wish he'd put his words to action on Francis. Or at least clearly state what his position is(he seems to think V2 may be illegitimate, but hasn't explained how to determine if an EC is illegitimate; he encourages people to go to the Tridentine Mass, but hasn't condemned the NO Mass; he's said nothing about his own holy orders, etc.).

Now, consider the good Bishop is a "Catholic pundit" in hiding.

In this context why can he not mention the word "Jews"?  

Its it not in his vocabulary.  Is it politically incorrect?  

Would it offend president Trump's son-in-law, the Israeli rabbi who works in the Oval Office?  

Let's get real Bishop Vigano.    You're talking about the life & death of nations, billions of souls at stake and yet the word "jew" will not cross your keyboard?
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: 2Vermont on October 31, 2020, 07:28:22 AM
Now, consider the good Bishop is a "Catholic pundit" in hiding.

In this context why can he not mention the word "Jews"?  

Its it not in his vocabulary.  Is it politically incorrect?  

Would it offend president Trump's son-in-law, the Israeli rabbi who works in the Oval Office?  

Let's get real Bishop Vigano.    You're talking about the life & death of nations, billions of souls at stake and yet the word "jew" will not cross your keyboard?
Actually, as we have discussed months ago, he has written a rabbi where he chooses to omit faith in Jesus Christ:
https://www.marcotosatti.com/2020/05/27/vigano-a-rabbi-ahrens-pericoli-reali-non-complottismo/
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Matthew on October 31, 2020, 07:56:32 AM
Picture a few men helping drowning people out of the sea.
One is right by the rescuing boat, helping survivors the last few feet into the boat
one is halfway between the boat and the sea
one is actually swimming in the sea, getting each survivor's rescue process started.

For the person drowning in the sea, the guy right before the boat -- and the 4th guy INSIDE the boat, handing out towels and other first aid -- basically doesn't exist. Completely not on their radar. 

It's not that Trads should lower themselves to "meet people where they are", but in reality there are in fact plenty of people who are legitimately "further down the ladder of truth" who won't/can't come all the way up yet, and so they are left (by Providence) to get things rolling for those who are increasing levels of lost.
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Incredulous on October 31, 2020, 11:01:38 AM
Actually, as we have discussed months ago, he has written a rabbi where he chooses to omit faith in Jesus Christ:
https://www.marcotosatti.com/2020/05/27/vigano-a-rabbi-ahrens-pericoli-reali-non-complottismo/

Thanks for reiterating this point.

The unabashed defense of Jesus Christ is our key reference for discerning a true Catholic leader.

If the Bishop is afraid to say “Jesus Christ” to the rabbi 

OR 

To publicly acknowledge that the jews are heavily involved in the
impending economic & social disasters...

 how can we trust him?

He strikes me as being just another Opus judei media actor.
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Incredulous on October 31, 2020, 02:34:48 PM


Here's Bp. Vigano's rabbi letter translated:


Dear Rabbi,


Since I have been called into question for my Appeal For the Church and For the World, I have asked Katolisch for its hospitality so that I may respond to you.


I must tell you, Doctor Ahrens, that your words amaze me greatly when you say: “We have known for some time that there are people within the churches who adhere to such theories. But now they have the courage to express these opinions even more openly.” I think that each of us have the duty to express our concern about a situation that, profiting from the Covid crisis, goes far beyond reasonable security measures, imposing on entire nations the deprivation of constitutional liberties: perhaps this has not happened in Germany, but it has certainly been verified in other nations.


I ask you, Rabbi: in your opinion, is it still permitted to express oneself freely, or are there certain topics that may not be discussed civilly? If you can express your dissent against the content of the Appeal, why should “people within the churches”not have the right to express themselves freely? Why do you think that in order to do this one needs to “have courage” as if we were talking about rantings that are not offering real feedback?


To dismiss these concerns – which moreover have been expressed by authoritative personalities – as “conspiracy theories”does not seem to me to be a constructive attitude: above all if one does not address the merit of the argument, refuting what one believes is not true. I ask you therefore: what specific thing in the text of the appeal are you not in agreement with? What in the Appeal represents a “shock” for you?


Believe me: I would have never thought that the Appeal could offend you; on the other hand, why should a Rabbi feel called into question when there is talk of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr? The Messiah whom Israel waits for is Rex pacificus, Princeps pacis, Pater futuri saeculi: not a tyrant without morals who dominates the world by subjecting men as slaves. This is rather the Antichrist.


We come now to the spiritual value of Covid. In the Old Testament there are many examples of punishment sent by God on the Chosen People, and the Prophets admonish the Hebrews many times to abandon their idolatry, to not be contaminated by the pagans, to remain faithful to the One True God. I recall the words of the Prophet Jeremiah, after the Babylonian troops set fire to Jerusalem in 585 B.C.: “Her adversaries have come out on top, her enemies prosper; because the Lord has afflicted her for her innumerable sins” (Lam 1:5).


This vision, which the Church of Christ shares, shows a God who is both just and merciful, who rewards the good and punishes evildoers; who as a loving Father also punishes his disobedient children, to bring them back to follow his holy Law. For this reason “transforming the negative into the positive, transforming a curse into a blessing” is obtained by the recognition of having committed a sin, of having violated the covenant with God, of having merited his punishments. Thus even the epidemic becomes a time to turn to the Lord, to adore Him in His holy temple, to follow His precepts.


There was a time when, with the obedience of the masses, an infernal dictatorship stained itself with a most serious crime, making itself responsible for the deportation and death of millions of innocent people, only because of their faith and their ancestry. Even then the mainstream media praised those in power and were silent about their crimes; even then doctors and scientists lent their work to a delusional plan of domination; even then whoever dared to raise his voice was accused of “conspiracy theories.” It was not until the end of the Second World War that the truth was discovered with horror that many had been silent about until then.


I am sure that those who today are delegitimizing the Appeal as an expression of “conspiracy” do not recognize the real dangers that the entire human family is exposed to. But I am sure that both Catholics and all men of good will – and among then I am confident that I can also count the children of Abraham – have at heart the greater glory of God, respect for the dignity of individuals, and the freedoms of peoples. Blessed are the people who God is the Lord (Ps 143:15).


+ Carlo Maria Vigano

Archbishop, Apostolic Nuncio

May 22, 2020


The Ascension of Our Lord Jesus Christ


Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: LeDeg on October 31, 2020, 05:18:31 PM
From Vigano's letter to Trump.

Look at this statement of his:

"As is now clear, the one who occupies the Chair of Peter has betrayed his role from the very beginning in order to defend and promote the globalist ideology, supporting the agenda of the deep church, who chose him from its ranks."


What would Fr Gleize say to that? Draw the conclusion from +Vigano's language. 
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: Prayerful on October 31, 2020, 07:54:08 PM
The SSPX in Ireland, the District of Ireland, outdo the diocesan Conciliar Church in the strictness of the lockdown with chapels open for limited hours and people encouraged to stay for no more than fifteen minutes. It has to be mentioned the closure is health advice that the District has elected to follow. The only priests I know who try offer public Masses, well discreetly, are SSPX Resistance. Abp Vigano has shown extraordinary and generous courage, instead of SSPX cunning and calculation. The impact will remain limited unless the McCarrick report is somehow leaked. This would bring the entire corrupt edifice of the Barron hell is empty Conciliar catamite church crashing down.
Title: Re: Fr. Gleize Calls ++Vigano "Overzealous Neophyte"
Post by: klasG4e on October 31, 2020, 08:05:05 PM
What followed as an absolutely direct consequence of the infamous SS planned, executed, and covered up 9-11 fαℓѕє fℓαg was the seemingly incalculable death and destruction of countless innocent lives in the Middle East.  And yet as far as I know Bp. Williamson, aside from any of his faults, was the only Catholic bishop on the face of the Earth who spoke up loudly and clearly in pointing to the SS as the extremely wicked perpetrator of 9-11.  if the Catholic Church from the top down pointed out the wicked scam of 9-11 for what it was countless innocent lives could have been saved, but alas it was not to be.  Even to this day their silence is deafening.  It just goes to show you who they are beholden to.

By contrast we have the Vatican's Cardinal Sarah immediately issuing a statement after 3 people were killed by an alleged Muslim in Nice:“Islamism is a monstrous fanaticism which must be fought with force and determination.”  And yet even after millions have been killed in the Middle East as a direct result of the U.S. government's being joined at the hip to Zionism we never hear a prelate openly condemning Zionism, let alone тαℓмυdic Judaism from whence this Zionism spawned.