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Author Topic: The Resistance and the end of the Crisis in the Church  (Read 24189 times)

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The Resistance and the end of the Crisis in the Church
« Reply #215 on: December 17, 2013, 06:37:11 PM »
The SSPX has no authority, no supplied jurisdiction to provide annulments. That anyone defends the SSPX for providing annulments  is just an example of SSPX idolatry. People seeking teachers according to their owns desires.

For people to think that marriage in our times is different than almost 2000 years of Church history, is a sign of being in denial.

The Resistance and the end of the Crisis in the Church
« Reply #216 on: December 18, 2013, 03:43:19 AM »
Quote from: Machabees
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: Machabees
Quote from: bowler
The SSPX has no authority whatsoever to grant annulments. As a matter of fact, as I've said many times before, I believe they are cursed today precisely because they went into the business of granting annulments.

“Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” (St. Augustine)

"I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think., I do not think that many priests are saved but that those that perish are far more numerous. The reason is that the office requires a great soul. For there are many things to make a priest swerve from rectitude, and he requires great vigilance on every side. Do you not perceive how many qualities a bishop must have that he may be apt to teach; patient towards the wicked, firm and faithful in teaching the Word? How many difficulties herein.

Moreover the loss of others is imputed to him. I need say no more. If but one dies without baptism, does it not entirely endanger his salvation? For the loss of one soul is so great an evil as no man can understand. If the salvation of one soul is of such importance that, for its sake, the Son of God became man and suffered so much, think of the penalty the loss of one soul will entail". (St. John Chrysostom Third Homily, Acts of the Apostles)


....The SSPX, in crisis of today's Novus ordo conciliar modernism and their plague of destroying the Sacrament of Marriage, along with their cotton-candy abuses of annulments, was forced by souls coming to them who are seeking the Sacrament of Marriage from them necessitated a preparation and an investigation....

Hence, "annulments", not by ordinary jurisdiction, but through the state of necessity is supplied to protect and to keep Holy the Sacrament of Marriage.


There is no supplied jurisdiction for the SSPX to provide annulments. They have no business granting annulments. Nothing else needs to be said. If someone wants an annulment, any SSPX priest can give them advice, and then they can go to the Novus Ordo and get an annulment.

Keep in mind that there were like 80 annulments a year WORLDWIDE (1952-1956) till the annulment dam broke in the 1970's and on,, and then it went to 35,000 to 63,000 per year just in the USA!

Do the math and tell me what are the chances of those 35,000- 63,000 having a valid annulment? (it's even less that 1/10 of 1%)


It is an abomination, and a perfect example of people seeking teachers according to their own desires:

For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears (2Tim 4:3)


bowler said: "There is no supplied jurisdiction for the SSPX to provide annulments. They have no business granting annulments. Nothing else needs to be said. If someone wants an annulment, any SSPX priest can give them advice, and then they can go to the Novus Ordo and get an annulment."


Isn't this a contradiction to what you are trying to say?  It is the Novus ordo that is the very abusers of annulments; why send them back there to receive more abuse?

Answer.  You don't.  That is why the Catholic Church provides supplied jurisdiction to administer Her Sacred Sacraments; in all of its integrity.


It seems you're confusing the sacrament of Matrimony with the non-sacrament of annulment.  

Annulment is not a sacrament.  Annulment is like 'baptism of desire' -- it's not a sacrament.  And the Church does not provide supplied jurisdiction for 'baptism of desire' either.

The Catholic Church provides supplied jurisdiction for sacraments such as Matrimony (even while the local diocese does not recognize marriages that were performed in SSPX Chapels!), but the Church does NOT supply jurisdiction for REMOVING the status of being married, by way of an annulment, which by the way, amounts to a finding that there was no marriage to begin with (and notice, local diocese records proclaim effectively annulled ALL marriages that the SSPX officiated over, since the local dioceses do not register marriages that took place in the SSPX Chapels).  

Supplied jurisdiction is provided on the basis of NECESSITY and EMERGENCY, and there is nothing urgent about an annulment.  There is no abiding emergency for being found unmarried.  If you really want an annulment, then go stand in line and wait your turn, or else, maybe it's not all that important to you.

So any forward-thinking Liberal would be pleased to get married in an SSPX chapel because that way in the future if he wants to get an annulment from the diocese, it would be no problem, since all SSPX-officiated marriages are considered non-existent, from the start, so getting an annulment is a foregone conclusion.  And would perhaps even be CHEAPER than for a marriage done in a diocese venue.

.


The Resistance and the end of the Crisis in the Church
« Reply #217 on: December 19, 2013, 09:35:33 PM »
Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: Machabees
Quote from: bowler
Quote from: Machabees
Quote from: bowler
The SSPX has no authority whatsoever to grant annulments. As a matter of fact, as I've said many times before, I believe they are cursed today precisely because they went into the business of granting annulments.

“Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” (St. Augustine)

"I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think., I do not think that many priests are saved but that those that perish are far more numerous. The reason is that the office requires a great soul. For there are many things to make a priest swerve from rectitude, and he requires great vigilance on every side. Do you not perceive how many qualities a bishop must have that he may be apt to teach; patient towards the wicked, firm and faithful in teaching the Word? How many difficulties herein.

Moreover the loss of others is imputed to him. I need say no more. If but one dies without baptism, does it not entirely endanger his salvation? For the loss of one soul is so great an evil as no man can understand. If the salvation of one soul is of such importance that, for its sake, the Son of God became man and suffered so much, think of the penalty the loss of one soul will entail". (St. John Chrysostom Third Homily, Acts of the Apostles)


....The SSPX, in crisis of today's Novus ordo conciliar modernism and their plague of destroying the Sacrament of Marriage, along with their cotton-candy abuses of annulments, was forced by souls coming to them who are seeking the Sacrament of Marriage from them necessitated a preparation and an investigation....

Hence, "annulments", not by ordinary jurisdiction, but through the state of necessity is supplied to protect and to keep Holy the Sacrament of Marriage.


There is no supplied jurisdiction for the SSPX to provide annulments. They have no business granting annulments. Nothing else needs to be said. If someone wants an annulment, any SSPX priest can give them advice, and then they can go to the Novus Ordo and get an annulment.

Keep in mind that there were like 80 annulments a year WORLDWIDE (1952-1956) till the annulment dam broke in the 1970's and on,, and then it went to 35,000 to 63,000 per year just in the USA!

Do the math and tell me what are the chances of those 35,000- 63,000 having a valid annulment? (it's even less that 1/10 of 1%)


It is an abomination, and a perfect example of people seeking teachers according to their own desires:

For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears (2Tim 4:3)


bowler said: "There is no supplied jurisdiction for the SSPX to provide annulments. They have no business granting annulments. Nothing else needs to be said. If someone wants an annulment, any SSPX priest can give them advice, and then they can go to the Novus Ordo and get an annulment."


Isn't this a contradiction to what you are trying to say?  It is the Novus ordo that is the very abusers of annulments; why send them back there to receive more abuse?

Answer.  You don't.  That is why the Catholic Church provides supplied jurisdiction to administer Her Sacred Sacraments; in all of its integrity.


It seems you're confusing the sacrament of Matrimony with the non-sacrament of annulment.  

Annulment is not a sacrament.  Annulment is like 'baptism of desire' -- it's not a sacrament.  And the Church does not provide supplied jurisdiction for 'baptism of desire' either.

The Catholic Church provides supplied jurisdiction for sacraments such as Matrimony (even while the local diocese does not recognize marriages that were performed in SSPX Chapels!), but the Church does NOT supply jurisdiction for REMOVING the status of being married, by way of an annulment, which by the way, amounts to a finding that there was no marriage to begin with (and notice, local diocese records proclaim effectively annulled ALL marriages that the SSPX officiated over, since the local dioceses do not register marriages that took place in the SSPX Chapels).  

Supplied jurisdiction is provided on the basis of NECESSITY and EMERGENCY, and there is nothing urgent about an annulment.  There is no abiding emergency for being found unmarried.  If you really want an annulment, then go stand in line and wait your turn, or else, maybe it's not all that important to you.

So any forward-thinking Liberal would be pleased to get married in an SSPX chapel because that way in the future if he wants to get an annulment from the diocese, it would be no problem, since all SSPX-officiated marriages are considered non-existent, from the start, so getting an annulment is a foregone conclusion.  And would perhaps even be CHEAPER than for a marriage done in a diocese venue..


???

Neil,

I do not at all think that an annulment is a "sacrament".  

Bowler had wrongly imported only a fraction of what I had said; and threw it out of context.  Please go back and read the context in many posts I had written on this subject.

Starting here:

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=28853&min=205&num=5