Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book  (Read 6298 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 10313
  • Reputation: +6220/-1742
  • Gender: Male
Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2019, 11:01:04 PM »
  • Thanks!5
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    You’re free to hold creationist views, but you may not impose them on others.
    This is the most backwards, anti-catholic, bizzaro statement I’ve ever read on a catholic forum.


    Online ihsv

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 694
    • Reputation: +933/-118
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #16 on: February 15, 2019, 12:14:04 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • I’m Catholic, not Protestant. Not everything in the Bible is to be taken in a strictly literal sense. Read Providentissimus  Deus if you want a Catholic understanding of how the Bible is to be interpreted. You’re free to hold creationist views, but you may not impose them on others.

    Gosh.  Thanks for giving us permission to hold the faith in the same sense, the same understanding as our fathers did.

    So Catholics (including the Fathers, doctors, popes, saints, councils, etc.,) for the first 1800+ years had the WRONG interpretation of scripture, particularly Genesis? 

    Because prior to the modern age, NO ONE held your view of Genesis.

    And you say you're not Protestant because, in effect, you refuse to interpret scripture according to the unanimous consensus of the fathers?

    Okeydokey.  

    ::)
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed


    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3849/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #17 on: February 15, 2019, 06:04:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I’m not an “evolutionist” unless you want to call Newman, Garrigou, and Pius XII evolutionists.
    Sorry if I misrepresented you. Forgive me. But to clear it up, how do you think the universe, the earth, and then life on earth was created? I have no faith in the English convert and for some reason I thought he was indeed an evolutionist. Pope Pius XII believed in the Big Bang, not positive about evolution. Don't know about GLG, I am sure you know.

    I have tried but I cannot reconcile original sin with evolution and genesis. Can you offer a satisfactory reconciliation? If you can it would be the first I have seen.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41912
    • Reputation: +23950/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #18 on: February 15, 2019, 09:17:41 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • I’m Catholic, not Protestant. Not everything in the Bible is to be taken in a strictly literal sense.

    Translation:  nothing has to be taken in a literal sense.

    This is an obvious principle that every Catholic knows.  It's only stated when you're trying to make a case for aberrant non-literal explaining away of Scripture.

    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2134
    • Reputation: +1330/-87
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #19 on: February 15, 2019, 12:31:38 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Evolution and the Big Bang are compatible with the Faith. Read Pius XII and Garrigou on these points. Fr. Chazal can be nutty at times
    Either Adam and Eve are the first humans or they are not. Our Catholic Faith says they are and it was Adam's Original Sin that was passed through all humans except the Blessed Virgin Mary. I doubt very much both Pius XII and Garrigou would entertain that idea that Adam was not the first human. And if they did, then they were wrong just as their current counterparts in the hierarchy are wrong.


    Offline Banezian

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 477
    • Reputation: +166/-821
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #20 on: February 15, 2019, 01:44:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!4
  • Either Adam and Eve are the first humans or they are not. Our Catholic Faith says they are and it was Adam's Original Sin that was passed through all humans except the Blessed Virgin Mary. I doubt very much both Pius XII and Garrigou would entertain that idea that Adam was not the first human. And if they did, then they were wrong just as their current counterparts in the hierarchy are wrong.
    Of course Adam & Eve were the first human beings. I’m not saying that full-on modern evolutionism is compatible with the Faith.  Here’s what Pius XII says
    ...the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faith. Some however rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as if the origin of the human body from pre-existing and living matter were already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and caution in this question.”

    Note he says it is the CHURCH that interprets Scripture. Wacky laymen have no right to make their personal interpretations dogmas. Catholics are free to hold to a moderate form of theistic evolution. Garrigou and Newman say the same
    http://iteadthomam.blogspot.com/2010/09/garrigou-lagrange-on-evolution-aka.html
    https://www.vofoundation.org/faith-and-science/john-henry-newman-darwins-theory-evolution/
    The Fathers did not have modern science. They worked with what they had.
    I myself don’t even really take a particular stance on the question. I’m a Classicist, not a biologist. Those without scientific training should not be bloviating on science.  All I’m saying is that one is free to believe in some form of evolution as a Catholic.
    BTW, if you actually read what Fr. Robinson says, you’ll see that he does NOT endorse macro-evolution. He himself is an Old Earth Creationist
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Online ihsv

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 694
    • Reputation: +933/-118
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #21 on: February 15, 2019, 01:54:07 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Note he says is is the CHURCH that interprets Scripture. Wacky laymen have no right to make their personal interpretations dogmas. Catholics are free to hold to a moderate form of theistic evolution. Garrigou and Newman say the same

    Catholics are NOT free to interpret scripture contrary to the unanimous consensus of the Fathers.  And there's not a single father of the Church that interprets Genesis in any way OTHER than literally.

    The declarations of Garrigou, Newman or anyone else nothwithstanding.


    Quote from: Council of Trent
    Furthermore, in order to restrain petulant spirits, It decrees, that no one, relying on his own skill, shall,--in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, --wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,--whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures,--hath held and doth hold; or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers; even though such interpretations were never (intended) to be at any time published. Contraveners shall be made known by their Ordinaries, and be punished with the penalties by law established.

    When a "theologian" begins to question the inerrancy of scripture, or put forth the notion that God lied to us, that alone is sufficient reason reject him and his interpretation.

    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Online ihsv

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 694
    • Reputation: +933/-118
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #22 on: February 15, 2019, 01:57:35 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Banαzιan, 

    Can God deceive us?
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed


    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3306
    • Reputation: +2086/-236
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #23 on: February 15, 2019, 02:14:34 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I’m Catholic, not Protestant. Not everything in the Bible is to be taken in a strictly literal sense. Read Providentissimus  Deus if you want a Catholic understanding of how the Bible is to be interpreted. You’re free to hold creationist views, but you may not impose them on others.

    No, read Pope Benedict XV's 1920 Spiritus Paraclitus for the Church's teaching on the Bible. Leo XIII's Providentissimus deus was influenced by the 1835 false U-turn on the 1616 decree that allowed a heliocentric reading of the Bible because they all thought heliocentrism was proven by science.
    Here is how Leo began. He gave out about false science causing all sorts of perverted readings opf Scripture:

    ‘Now we have to meet the rationalists, true children and inheritors of the older heretics, who, trusting in their own way of thinking, have rejected even the scraps  and remnants of Christian belief which have been handed down to them…. These detestable errors, whereby they think they destroy the truth of the divine books, are obtruded on the world as the peremptory pronouncements of a certain newly-invented “free science,” a science, however, which is so far from final that they are perpetually modifying and supplementing it…
    The efforts and arts of the enemy are chiefly directed against the more ignorant masses of the people. They diffuse their deadly poisons by means of books, pamphlets, and newspapers; they spread it by addresses and by conversation; they are found everywhere; and they are in possession of numerous schools, taken by violence from the Church, in which by ridicule and scurrilous jesting, they pervert the credulous and unformed minds of the young to the contempt of the Holy Scriptures. Should not these things Venerable Brethren, stir up and set on fire the heart of every pastor, so that to this “so-called knowledge” (II Tim. 6:20), may be opposed the ancient and true science which the Church, through the Apostles has received from Christ that the Holy Scriptures may find the champions that are needed in so momentous a battle.’ --- Par 10, Providentissimus Deus.

    ‘14: His teaching [St Irenaeus] and that of other holy Fathers, is taken up by the Synod of the Vatican, adopted the teaching of the Fathers, when, as it renewed the decree of Trent on the interpretations of the divine Word, it declared this to be its mind, that “in matters of faith and morals, which pertain to the building up of Christian doctrine, that is to be held as the true sense of Holy Scripture which Mother Church has held and holds, whose prerogative it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of Scripture; and therefore, it is permitted to no one to interpret the Holy Scriptures against this sense, or even against the unanimous agreement of the Fathers.” By this very wise law the Church by no means retards or blocks the investigations of Biblical science, but rather keeps it free of error, and aids it very much in true progress…. The professor of Holy Scripture, therefore, must be well acquainted with the whole circle of theology and deeply read in the commentaries of the holy Fathers and Doctors, and other interpreters of mark…’    

    Now remember why Pope Paul V defined heliocentrism as formal heresy: Because it contradicted the unanimous interpretation od ALL THE FATHERS.

    So, after telling all you cannot read the Bible contrary to ALL THE FATHERS, Leo goes on:


    ‘15: But [the interpreter] must not on that account consider that it is forbidden, when just cause exists, to push enquiry and exposition beyond what the Fathers have done; provided he carefully observes the rule so wisely laid down by St Augustine – not to depart from the literal and obvious sense, except only where reason makes it untenable or necessity requires, a rule to which it is more necessary to adhere strictly in these times, when the thirst for novelty and unrestrained freedom of thought make the danger of error most real and proximate.’ Neither should those passages be neglected which the Fathers have understood in an allegorical or figurative sense.’--- Providentissimus Deus.

    Yes, isn't that EXACTLY what happened in 1820-1835. Talk about a CONTRADICTION.

    Oh, just in case you think I am making it up, here is how this Providentissimus Deus was interpreted:

    ‘Similarly, “the sun stood still,” like our “the sun rises,” is a popular method of speaking, and involves the fact that in some way or another – and various ways have been suggested – God Almighty did prolong the hours of light in the case of Joshua; certainly does not necessarily involve inferences which churchmen of the time of Galileo unwisely read into the statement. They, as we have seen, were men of their own time and not in front of it, and they fell into the errors natural to what figured in those days of science. But we should be careful to make use of the better guidance which we have obtained in such utterances as the “Providentissimus Deus” and avoid the mistakes which we can see our predecessors have made and which, indeed, it would have been exceedingly difficult for them to have avoided.’[1]

    ‘Anyone who will compare this [Galileo’s] wonderful letter with the Encyclical Providentissimus Deus of Pope Leo XIII on the study of Holy Scripture will see how near in many places Galileo came to the very words of the Holy Father.’[2]

    ‘But Bellarmine erred in its application, for the theological principles with which Galileo supported his system were merely those afterwards officially adopted and taught us by Pope Leo XIII in his Encyclical, Providentissimus Deus.[3]

    ‘Actually, almost 100 years before Pope John Paul II’s apology, an earlier Pope (Leo XIII) effectively reinstated Galileo in an encyclical dealing with how Catholics should study the Bible. Although Pope Leo XIII does not mention Galileo by name in the encyclical, nevertheless, “In 1893, Pope Leo XIII made honorable amends to Galileo’s memory by basing his encyclical Providentissimus Deus on the principles of exegesis that Galileo had expounded.”’[4]

    ‘On the other hand Galileo was right about heliocentricism. Moreover, some of his theological wanderings eventually found themselves mirrored in several papal encyclicals of the last two centuries. Providentissimus Deus by Pope Leo XIII and Humani Generis by Pope Pius XII, for instance, both have pieces that could have been extracted from Galileo’s Letters to the Grand Duchess Christina… Galileo seems to have won out both on theological as well as scientific grounds…’[5]

    ‘Galileo’s views on the interpretation of scripture were fundamentally derived from St Augustine; but his restatement and development of Augustine’s teaching were destined to be influential in the future. Galileo’s views, expounded in the Letter to Castelli and his Letter to Christina and elsewhere, are in fact close to those expounded three centuries later by Pope Leo XIII, who in his encyclical on the divine inspiration of Holy Scripture [Providentissimus Deus], declared….’ [6]  

    ‘A sort of climax of the hermeneutical aspect of the Galileo affair occurred in 1893 with Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical letter Providentissimus Deus, for this docuмent put forth a view of the relationship between biblical interpretation and scientific investigation that corresponded to the one advanced by Galileo in his letters to Castelli and Christina.’[7]

    ‘Galileo addressed this problem in his famous Letter to Castelli. In its approach to biblical exegesis, the letter ironically anticipates Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Providentissimus Deus (1893), which pointed out that Scripture often makes use of figurative language and is not meant to teach science. Galileo accepted the inerrancy of Scripture; but he was also mindful of Cardinal Baronius’s quip that the Bible “is intended to teach us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go.” And he pointed out correctly that both St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas taught that the sacred writers in no way meant to teach a system of astronomy.’[8]

    ‘When Pope Leo XIII wrote on the importance of science and reason, he essentially embraced the philosophical principles put forth by Galileo, and many statements by Popes and the Church over the years have expressed admiration for Galileo. For example, Galileo was specifically singled out for praise by Pope Pius XII in his address to the International Astronomical Union in 1952.’[9]

    ‘To excite Catholic students to rival non-Catholics in the study of the Scriptures, and at the same time guide their studies, Pope Leo XIII in 1893 published “Providentissimus Deus,” which won the admiration even of Protestants.’[10]


    [1] Sir Bertram Windle: The Church and Science, Catholic Truth Society, 1920, p.81.

    [2] James Brodrick, S.J: The life of Cardinal Bellarmine, Burns Oats, 1928, p.351.

    [3] E.C Messenger: Evolution and Theology, Burns, Oats and Washbourne, 1931.

    [4] D. A. Crombie’s ‘A History of Science from Augustine to Galileo,’ Vol. 2, 1996, p.225.

    [5] J.T. Winschel: Galileo, Victim or Villain, The Angelus, Oct. 2003, p.38.

    [6] Cardinal Cathal Daly: The Minding of Planet Earth, Veritas, 2004, p.68.

    [7] M. A. Finocchiaro: Retrying Galileo, 2007, p.264.

    [8] Catholics United for the Faith – what the Catholic Church teaches, 2010.

    [9] Vatican Observatory website 2013.

    [10] Newadvent Catholic Encyclopedia: Largest Catholic website in the world, 2013.



    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31203
    • Reputation: +27122/-495
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #24 on: February 15, 2019, 02:23:26 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Evolution and the Big Bang are compatible with the Faith. Read Pius XII and Garrigou on these points. Fr. Chazal can be nutty at times

    The Catholic Church from the 1950's called. They want their compromise with modern science back.

    Seriously, the Church was trying to concede a bit when it looked like Evolution was proven. It's not like the Church is going to say the whole thing is just a scam. They had to re-evaluate what they were absolutely certain about.

    But today, with knowledge of DNA, genetics, etc. there are NO reason to believe in any kind of evolution or speciation by means of Natural Selection. It has been proven mathematically impossible due to the nature of genes.

    Look into various animals whose "machines" had to be created *all at once* or the creature would die. That basically disproves incremental, mutation, natural selection-based evolution.

    More information is NEVER given to a new generation. Mutations actually limit or destroy information in the new "version" of the species, not the other way around. And so on.

    You are the same one who supports the neo-SSPX. How typical you believe in Evolution and think Fr. Chazal is nutty. I think you are a sad case.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3306
    • Reputation: +2086/-236
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #25 on: February 15, 2019, 02:30:42 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Evolution and the Big Bang are compatible with the Faith. Read Pius XII and Garrigou on these points. Fr. Chazal can be nutty at times

    In Pope Pius XII’s Humani Generis he felt he could write the following:

    6. For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter.’

    Now Banezian, give us your account of Adam coming from pre-living matter. Living matter has to have a soul. Now God created animals who can give birth to body and soul. So such a Humani animal body for Adam HAD TO HAVE A SOUL. Now a human gets a soul created by God and is infused into the body at conception. So an evolved Adam would have to had two souls another HERESY.

    Now Eve? How did she evolve from the body of Adam. Would you like to tell us Banezian? You see its all very well making statements like, 'I believe in evolution,' but its the details that show the nonsense it is.

    Pius XII was a Big Bang evolutionist. Because popes were afraid of their lives to condemn evolution as a heresy in case of another Galileo case, none dared to defend a literal Genesis. And that is why they allowed the nonsense of evolution to form in the womb of the Church.


    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3306
    • Reputation: +2086/-236
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #26 on: February 15, 2019, 03:04:26 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • I’m not an “evolutionist” unless you want to call Newman, Garrigou, and Pius XII evolutionists.

    ALL WERE EVOLUTIONISTS.
    Ok, let us begin with Newman, about to be canonised by Pope Francis. then Garrigou and then Pius XII.
    When Darwin’s Origin of Species was published in 1859, it came as no surprise to Henry Newman. His idea of history, with change and development implicit in it, enabled him to comprehend Darwin’s claims, which shocked so many well-educated men whose minds were dominated by a static view of history. They believed in a literal exposition of the Book of Genesis. Newman’s view of history was dynamic and he found no difficulty in reconciling his views to Darwin’s.’ -- Brian Martin: J. H. Newman, His Life and Work, Challo & Windus, London, 1982, p.76.

    Reminder of what the heresy of Modernism is:
    ‘The truths of religion are, according to the general progress of culture, caught up in a constant substantial development (evolutionism).’--- Ludwig Ott: Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, P.17.  



    As for Fr Garrigou legrange, let the evolutionist John Paul II tell us in his Galileo speech:

    8. Another crisis similar to the one we are speaking of can be mentioned here. In the last century and at the beginning of our own, advances in the historical sciences made it possible to acquire a new understanding of the Bible and of the biblical world. The rationalist context in which these data were most often presented seemed to make them dangerous to the Christian faith. Certain people, in their concern to defend the faith, thought it necessary to reject firmly-based historical conclusions. That was a hasty and unhappy decision. The work of a pioneer like Fr Lagrange [1877-1964] was able to make the necessary discernment on the basis of dependable criteria. It is necessary to repeat here what I said above. It is a duty for theologians to keep themselves regularly informed of scientific advances in order to examine if such be necessary, whether or not there are reasons for taking them into account in their reflection or for introducing changes in their teaching.’

    Would these ‘advances in their historical sciences’ that supposedly brought about a new understanding of the Bible be the Big Bang and 15 billion years of evolution? And what about Fr Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., considered by many in the Church as the greatest theologian of his time, a kind of twentieth century St Thomas Aquinas, writing against Modernism? Well, even his theology on creation in his ‘the order of the universe’ was that of the Pythagoreans Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo, and Kepler, the same order defined as formal heresy and against the faith in 1616. He writes about Newton’s ‘universal attraction between bodies’ and ‘the two fold motion of the Earth’ as created that way by God in His wisdom. He goes on to describe nature while trying to eliminate the ‘chance’ of a Godless evolution and argue for divine design-evolution and millions of years of it. Oh yes, Fr Garrigou-Legrange did a wonderful job applying Thomistic theology of the Creator trying to make heliocentrism, long-ages and evolutionism Catholic as the Pope acknowledges above. Indeed it was the same Fr Lagrange who it is said to have been a dominant influence on the content of the encyclical Humani Generis.


    ‘No. 30. The theory of evolution undermines divine Catholic Faith, poisons the mind in which it takes residence, obscures the supernatural truths of Faith and warps the natural powers of reason. It is incompatible with divine Catholic Faith and in its theistic form, constitutes a major heresy infecting the Church today.’ --- Paula Haigh: ‘30 Theses against Evolutionism, 1976.’

    POPE PIUS XII
    The courtship between Catholic faith and modern science reached a lower point on November 22, 1951 when Pope Pius XII once again addressed the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. The title of the Pope’s address was ‘The Proofs for the Existence of God in the Light of Modern Natural Science.’ What followed was an inferred endorsement of nearly every evolutionary theory on offer at the time, theories that (1) conflicted with the literal order of creation and the geocentric order of the universe held by the all the Church Fathers; (2) theories that denied the biblical age of 6-7,000 years for the universe; (3) theories that denied the global Flood as recorded in Genesis and its effect on the topography as we find it today, and God knows what else. Here is some of Pope’s speech:

    ‘44. It is undeniable that when a mind enlightened and enriched with modern scientific knowledge weighs this problem calmly, it feels drawn to break through the circle of completely independent or autochthonous matter, whether uncreated or self-created, and to ascend to a creating Spirit. With the same clear and critical look with which it examines and passes judgment on facts, it perceives and recognizes the work of creative omnipotence, whose power, set in motion by the mighty “Fiat” pronounced billions of years ago by the Creating Spirit, spread out over the universe, calling into existence with a gesture of generous love matter bursting with energy. In fact, it would seem that present-day science, with one sweeping step back across millions of centuries, has succeeded in bearing witness to that primordial “Fiat lux” uttered at the moment when, along with matter, there burst forth from nothing a sea of light and radiation, while the particles of chemical elements split and formed into millions of galaxies.’

    48. On the other hand, how different and much more faithful a reflection of limitless visions is the language of an outstanding modern scientist, Sir Edmund Whittaker, member of the Pontifical Academy of Science, when he speaks of the above-mentioned inquiries into the age of the world: “These different calculations point to the conclusion that there was a time, some nine or ten billion years ago, prior to which the cosmos, if it existed, existed in a form totally different from anything we know, and this form constitutes the very last limit of science. We refer to it perhaps not improperly as creation. It provides a unifying background, suggested by geological evidence, for that explanation of the world according to which every organism existing on the Earth had a beginning in time. Were this conclusion to be confirmed by future research, it might well be considered as the most outstanding discovery of our times, since it represents a fundamental change in the scientific conception of the universe, similar to the one brought about four centuries ago by Copernicus.”

    50. It has, besides, followed the course and the direction of cosmic developments, and, just as it was able to get a glimpse of the term toward which these developments were inexorably leading, so also has it pointed to their beginning in time some five billion years ago. Thus, with that concreteness which is characteristic of physical proofs, it has confirmed the contingency of the universe and also the well-founded deduction as to the epoch when the cosmos came forth from the hands of the Creator.

    Yes, admits Pope Pius XII, it all began with Copernicus.


    Offline Banezian

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 477
    • Reputation: +166/-821
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #27 on: February 15, 2019, 03:39:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!7
  • This is like the BOD issue. There’s no use in going on with you folks because you put yourselves above the Church. 
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31203
    • Reputation: +27122/-495
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #28 on: February 15, 2019, 03:48:36 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • If you haven't seen this, you should watch it. Very enlightening.

    For those without 50 minutes of spare time, jump to 8:00 for a sample.

    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Online ihsv

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 694
    • Reputation: +933/-118
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Chazal Rips Fr. Robinson's Book
    « Reply #29 on: February 15, 2019, 03:50:28 PM »
  • Thanks!6
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is like the BOD issue. There’s no use in going on with you folks because you put yourselves above the Church.

    No. You’ve been cornered and exposed. That’s the real reason you’re abandoning ship. 

    You stuck your nose in this thread.  Don’t complain when it gets pinched. 

    You hold that God deceives us, and prefer the opinions of men over the inerrant Word of God. 

    You are, indeed, a sad case. 
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed