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Author Topic: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article  (Read 38778 times)

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Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
« Reply #250 on: December 01, 2020, 04:34:21 AM »
No, no, no.  According to the logic of many on here (and of +Vigano's) there is NO compromise allowed.  Even if a gun was pointed at you or your family, you'd have to take a bullet instead of the vaccine.  You'd have to suffer martyrdom instead.  That's what Sean is saying and that's what +Vigano's logic leads to.
And given your response to my later post about Catholics who were forced into signing the Oath of Supremacy in Tudor England, you also seem to be of the same mind.  

Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
« Reply #251 on: December 01, 2020, 04:41:44 AM »
What a bunch of fools they were, to die for that when they could have just taken the Oath if it wasn't a mortal sin not to.  Just like those silly Catholics in the Roman Empire, who let themselves be fed to lions.  
Except Catholic morality teaches that a mortal sin requires full consent.  These men were certainly courageous in dying.  That's why they were canonized.

But I see you're posting sarcastic, condescending posts...again.


Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
« Reply #252 on: December 01, 2020, 04:55:32 AM »
You only have to be concerned with how you will respond. Meanwhile, we have God's promise that He will not test us beyond our capacity. Just pray for strength to be faithful.
That goes for everyone else here as well, right?

Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
« Reply #253 on: December 01, 2020, 04:57:07 AM »
I was researching to refute 2Vermont, and stumbled across this from St. Thomas Aquinas (Q. 125, Art. 4, Secunda Secundae):

"Now the evils of the soul are more to be feared than the evils of the body. and evils of the body more than evils of external things. Wherefore if one were to incur evils of the soul, namely sins, in order to avoid evils of the body, such as blows or death, or evils of external things, such as loss of money; or if one were to endure evils of the body in order to avoid loss of money, one would not be wholly excused from sin. Yet one's sin would be extenuated somewhat, for what is done through fear is less voluntary, because when fear lays hold of a man he is under a certain necessity of doing a certain thing. Hence the Philosopher (Ethic. iii, 1) says that these things that are done through fear are not simply voluntary, but a mixture of voluntary and involuntary."
https://www.newadvent.org/summa/3125.htm

Consequently, I modify my own opinion quoted above:

It would certainly be grave matter, but may not be mortal sin.

Concedo.
Well, thanks for that.  This is very important to this discussion and I am surprised that none of the clerical guidance posted thus far has included it (unless I missed it).

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Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
« Reply #254 on: December 01, 2020, 08:19:15 AM »
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There were many many more Catholics who who were coerced and took the Oath out of great fear .  In other words ...without full consent, a necessary component for mortal sin. So no one here should be asserting that these Catholics committed mortal sin.

Yes, certainly people were afraid of the consequences of upholding their Faith.  But...you're just looking at this from the human standpoint.  You're assuming they took the oath "without full consent".  If God puts one in a situation where the decision is Faith vs Death, then He will INFALLIBLY give us the grace to face the (human) fear and grace will make it possible (if we cooperate) to choose Faith.  We cannot say that God gave the graces necessary to the English martyrs but He didn't give the graces to the martyr's next door neighbors (all of whom were catholic, as there was no protestantism in England until after the Oath).  Fear aside, grace will overcome fear....if the person cooperates with grace.
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It would certainly be grave matter, but may not be mortal sin.

Obviously, we cannot say that those people who apostasized are in hell, but we also cannot say they didn't commit a mortal sin.  Objectively, they abandoned their Faith.  Objectively, they joined a new religion.  The grace was available for them to hold fast and they didn't.  The Church has never condoned this type of action, nor has She ever made excuses for those who were cowards.  
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God will never test us beyond our strength, so if His Divine Providence, from all eternity, determined that these Catholics were to live through the English Persecution, then He would have ordered/provided for them to have the grace to not be tested (not everyone had to take the Oath, but many did), or to become martyrs for the Faith.