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Author Topic: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article  (Read 22356 times)

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Offline Yeti

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Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
« Reply #225 on: November 30, 2020, 08:20:05 AM »
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  • all the words vanished from the pages of everyone’s manuals.
    .
    I am extremely curious what it says in the section on the four causes of the philosophy manual that Canis uses. Honestly I doubt Canis even knows.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #226 on: November 30, 2020, 08:47:51 AM »
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    Those cells were the initial cause of the cell line (in all four senses of causality); what happens subsequently is irrelevant insofar as we are talking about the causal chain as a whole.

    This seems too general to me.  If such is the moral logic we must use, then everyone who has ever shopped at Walmart (or a 100 other places) is guilty of sin, because they sell chinese products which are DIRECTLY made from communist forced labor camps, catholic persecutions, forced abortion social programs, etc, etc.  The initial cause of 99% of walmart's products is godless atheism, no question.


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #227 on: November 30, 2020, 09:31:16 AM »
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  • If it is immoral to use any medical methods derived from scientific study of a corpse, then I'm afraid you people are back to hacksaws and leaches. No, wait, some doctor somewhere probably sawed off some dead guy's arm for practice, so I guess you just get the leaches.  :laugh1:
    The fetal tissue must be live- dead fetal cells will not do. The harvesting of the tissue is done immediately upon the expelling of the aborted child which many times  (preferably for the harvesters) is born intact and alive. Not a laughing matter

    Offline ElAusente

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #228 on: November 30, 2020, 10:06:52 AM »
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  • So by the term “fetal cells,” you exclude placental cells?

    Offline andy

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #229 on: November 30, 2020, 11:38:36 AM »
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  • The reason I say the vaccine is 2-3 steps removed from an abortion is because 1) a fetal cell is part of a body...it is not a person.  2) once a fetal cell is mixed with a virus, it becomes a new thing.  3) this new virus then is combined AGAIN to make a vaccine...a potentially ADDITIONAL new thing.
    @Pax Vobis - inferring from your posts, your reasoning assumes that in order to apple double effect principle we need that "2-3 steps from an abortion". That somehow is supported that abortions needed to the cell line happened 40-50 years ago. 
    What if the abortions are constantly need as a supply for either new tests or just maintaining the cell line or scaling up necessary for mass production. Would this be the same situation?


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #230 on: November 30, 2020, 12:02:45 PM »
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    @Pax Vobis - inferring from your posts, your reasoning assumes that in order to apple double effect principle we need that "2-3 steps from an abortion". That somehow is supported that abortions needed to the cell line happened 40-50 years ago.
    What if the abortions are constantly need as a supply for either new tests or just maintaining the cell line or scaling up necessary for mass production. Would this be the same situation?

    I'm the first to admit that i'm not an expert at all.  I wish I knew more about the process to create a vaccine; then there would be more details to debate.  As it is, I/we are debating based on general knowledge and facts here and there.
    .
    Of course, if abortions were "constantly" needed for vaccines, then their use would be 100% prohibited.  As it is, it appears that the process is using CLONES/COPIES of the cells, which originally came from abortion long ago.  To me, a copy is a new thing, even if it's cellular makeup is identical.  Since it's a new thing, then philosophically speaking, it's essence is not the same as the original fetal cells.
    .
    Then, the 2nd part of my objection is (which I don't know the answer to), "Does the chemical process of combining fetal cells with the virus substantially destroy/assimilate the fetal cells, so they no longer exist, or they can no longer be identified, because they have become part of the new entity, the vaccine itself?"  We know that fetal cells have to be taken from a living baby, so it stands to reason that they cannot survive unless they are attached to something living (i.e. virus).  So does this attachment process, mean the fetal cells are absorbed by the virus?  It sounds plausible.
    .
    But my arguments all presuppose a few conditions:
    1.  That all vaccines have a similar process and abortive fetal cells in their origin.  In other words, there's no alternative non-abortion option.
    2.  That such vaccines will somehow be forced on us, either directly or indirectly, and to avoid one would cause substantial harm.
    3.  Under normal conditions, I would never get a vaccine, nor would I advise anyone to.  I'm just playing "devils advocate" regarding a near-future scenario where the "new normal" gives us all few options to avoid one.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #231 on: November 30, 2020, 02:31:29 PM »
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  • So by the term “fetal cells,” you exclude placental cells?
    So by the term “elephant trunk,” you exclude giraffe neck? Just being facetious, but hopefully you will get the message.

    Do you possess a dictionary?
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline ElAusente

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #232 on: November 30, 2020, 03:38:03 PM »
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  • "The three most reliable sources to date of abundant fetal stem cells are the placenta, amniotic fluid, and umbilical cord blood." Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/fetal-stem-cell


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #233 on: November 30, 2020, 03:56:59 PM »
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  • The example of the martyrs says otherwise.

    They died the most horrific deaths rather than taking the shot/offering incense under physical compulsion.

    If there is a grave duty to refuse the shot, then the threat of bodily harm will not exempt one from culpability.
    What Church teaching requires Catholics to be martyred?  Were Catholics under Henry VIII guilty of mortal sin when they swore their oath of loyalty to him as required by the Act/Oath of Supremacy? Most Catholics did not refuse.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #234 on: November 30, 2020, 03:58:31 PM »
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  • Dr. Judith Mikovits "Plague" is a book to read about vaccines. The process is pretty much always contamination. More viruses.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #235 on: November 30, 2020, 04:04:08 PM »
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  • We are discussing, not ethically acquired cells (from placenta, amniotic fluid, and umbilical cord blood, but immorally acquired cells (from the murder of human babies).

    I think if you read the thread from the beginning, you will possibly discover why the ethically acquired products (not human beings) are not favoured in research and production of vaccines.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline ElAusente

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #236 on: November 30, 2020, 04:11:52 PM »
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  • It is not possible to discuss the one without reference to the other. In fact, the whole use of material cooperation hinges on it.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #237 on: November 30, 2020, 04:17:21 PM »
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    Were Catholics under Henry VIII guilty of mortal sin when they swore their oath of loyalty to him as required by the Act/Oath of Supremacy? 
    Certainly they were guilty of open and public heresy, because the oath required them to denounce Catholicism and join a new religion.  
    .
    But that issue deals with heresy, a sin against Faith/religion, while what we're debating is a sin against the natural law.  Similar in regards to mortal sin but different enough that it’s not apples-apples. 

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #238 on: November 30, 2020, 04:24:23 PM »
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  • What Church teaching requires Catholics to be martyred?  Were Catholics under Henry VIII guilty of mortal sin when they swore their oath of loyalty to him as required by the Act/Oath of Supremacy? Most Catholics did not refuse.

    Obviously they were guilty of mortal sin.

    It was a formal act of apostasy which they were obliged to resist even unto martyrdom.

    I get the distinct impression some here believe their religion ought not inconvenience them, much less ever require martyrdom.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #239 on: November 30, 2020, 04:31:46 PM »
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    We are discussing, not ethically acquired cells (from placenta, amniotic fluid, and umbilical cord blood, but immorally acquired cells (from the murder of human babies).

    In the context of scientists/vaccine makers, we don't know what THEY mean when they say "fetal cells".  ElAusente's point is that a placenta cell is a type of fetal cell, so we have to be careful to use proper terminology.  Yeti made the same point earlier, when he differentiated between the types of "abortion" (i.e. miscarriage vs murder).  What type of fetal cell was used by each vaccine?  Some are ok to use (placenta/miscarriage) while others are wrong (abortive).