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Author Topic: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article  (Read 22468 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2020, 06:53:11 PM »
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  • You have the cell
    The cell is cloned.
    The DNA of the cloned cell is replicated.
    The opposite DNA sequence is created
    This sequence is then used.

    All this happens before the new sequence is used to create another sequence with the desired characteristics for use to then replicate.

    This happens over and over.

    This can be done with any stem cell.
    ...and the line of causality stems directly from abortion.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Mr G

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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #32 on: November 26, 2020, 06:54:53 PM »
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  • Again, I am not weighing in on objections to vaccines, not valid moral objections to them but I will object to badly thought out medico-moral theology
    You mean like the “medico-moral theology” promoted by the SSPX until 2006?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #33 on: November 26, 2020, 07:22:29 PM »
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  • You can't have it both ways you agree with Fr Scott until 2006 then he's wrong ok logical.

    So the cell is from abortion or a cadaver?

    Was the abortion done to derive the cell?

    Traditional bioethicists do not exist because there's no one qualified to teach. What you are suggesting is that we listen to people not properly trained?
    Personally I would prefer a surgeon to operate but you prefer an anesthesiologist.

    WI38 and MRC5 are from directly procured abortions for the purpose of making cell lines. This is one major difference but you prefer to lump all reasoning together.

    You may be shocked that pre Vatican II it was lawful for a nurse to assist at an abortion for certain grave reasons so long as what she was doing could have been done by another ( handing over instruments, patient observation, etc)? 

    We are not protestant, we don't make up science or moral theology. We follow reasoned teaching presented by theological experts in their field. Especially when we can not make a proper judgement on a subject outside our competency. We don't prescribe our own penances, hear our own confessions, or baptize ourselves either
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #34 on: November 26, 2020, 07:39:32 PM »
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  • You can't have it both ways you agree with Fr Scott until 2006 then he's wrong ok logical.

    So the cell is from abortion or a cadaver?

    Was the abortion done to derive the cell?

    Traditional bioethicists do not exist because there's no one qualified to teach. What you are suggesting is that we listen to people not properly trained?
    Personally I would prefer a surgeon to operate but you prefer an anesthesiologist.

    WI38 and MRC5 are from directly procured abortions for the purpose of making cell lines. This is one major difference but you prefer to lump all reasoning together.

    You may be shocked that pre Vatican II it was lawful for a nurse to assist at an abortion for certain grave reasons so long as what she was doing could have been done by another ( handing over instruments, patient observation, etc)?  

    We are not protestant, we don't make up science or moral theology. We follow reasoned teaching presented by theological experts in their field. Especially when we can not make a proper judgement on a subject outside our competency. We don't prescribe our own penances, hear our own confessions, or baptize ourselves either

    You are outmaneuvering yourself:

    You begin by acknowledging there are no traditional bioethicists (yet scorn me for relying on the old SSPX and the best of the conservative prelates’ conclusion that the use of vaccines derived from abortions is never permissible), then close by stating we rely upon the reasonings of theological experts in their field (whom you have already explained are not traditional).

    You can’t have it both ways.

    Ps: It would be nice if you started including citations for your medical assertions.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #35 on: November 26, 2020, 08:29:37 PM »
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  • I already quoted studies on the HEK.

    You're still not addressing my points,

    You still don't get the difference between WI and HEK neither do your sources. You're taking a view as if no differences can be had between two different things.
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #36 on: November 26, 2020, 08:32:51 PM »
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  • I already quoted studies on the HEK.

    You're still not addressing my points,

    You still don't get the difference between WI and HEK neither do your sources. You're taking a view as if no differences can be had between two different things.
    Which point(s)?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #37 on: November 26, 2020, 08:39:16 PM »
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  • There were at least three questions.

    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #38 on: November 26, 2020, 08:45:41 PM »
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  • You may be shocked that pre Vatican II it was lawful for a nurse to assist at an abortion for certain grave reasons so long as what she was doing could have been done by another ( handing over instruments, patient observation, etc)?  
    Provide the evidence for this outlandish claim. The Church has always condemned abortion for any reason so how could She rule that a nurse may participate in baby killing “for certain grave reasons”?
    Btw patient observation is not co operation in abortion after the fact.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #39 on: November 26, 2020, 08:50:54 PM »
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  • There were at least three questions.
    What were they?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #40 on: November 26, 2020, 08:56:28 PM »
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  • So the cell is from abortion or a cadaver?

    Was the abortion done to derive the cell?

    Hmm.  I think I might be seeing what you're getting at here.  Would this situation be analogous to the transplant of a heart that came as a result of a murder?  In that case the recipient would not have cooperated with the evil...murder ....simply because they got that person's heart.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #41 on: November 26, 2020, 09:18:46 PM »
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  • Hmm.  I think I might be seeing what you're getting at here.  Would this situation be analogous to the transplant of a heart that came as a result of a murder?  In that case the recipient would not have cooperated with the evil...murder ....simply because they got that person's heart.
    Except that this is inapplicable, because the HEK293 did in fact come from an abortion.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #42 on: November 26, 2020, 09:42:14 PM »
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  • Hmm.  I think I might be seeing what you're getting at here.  Would this situation be analogous to the transplant of a heart that came as a result of a murder?  In that case the recipient would not have cooperated with the evil...murder ....simply because they got that person's heart.
    Not to change the subject but...
    It is my understanding that all heart transplants use the heart of a person who was killed for the specific purpose. A beating heart is needed. I suggest you further investigate this.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline andy

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #43 on: November 26, 2020, 09:50:37 PM »
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  • Except that this is inapplicable, because the HEK293 did in fact come from an abortion.
    Or you know that the person was killed with a sole intention of getting that hart.
    BTW, does not the transplant industry rely on harvesting organs from people who are not necessarily dead yet.

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #44 on: November 26, 2020, 09:59:38 PM »
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  • Again abortion is also used to refer to a pregnancy that ends due to natural means as well. No one actually knows if the HEK was a procured abortion

    Nadir I will post relevant pics from 1940's medical book.

    Essentially if it meant loss of lively hood for a single woman with no other support they were permitted to provide generic nursing support that could be done by any nurse who wasn't helping with an abortion.

    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا