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Author Topic: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article  (Read 22398 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
« Reply #90 on: November 28, 2020, 10:15:26 AM »
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  • In the case above, wouldn't the 200th time not contain 0%, but contain an amount that is approaching zero, but never reaches zero. A typical limit problem in calculus?

    The amount of fetal material would then get infinitely small, but never completely disappear.

    And since God is infinitely good, an infinitely small part of the original material would be infinitely offensive to the Infinite Good.

    Its all smoke and mirrors anyway, because even supposing this were true (i.e., citations were never provided for this claim), you never get to the allegedly 0% fetal matter HEK293 but for the use and presence of fetal matter in all previous replications.

    The line of causality is direct.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Simplehomeschooler

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #91 on: November 28, 2020, 10:26:54 AM »
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  • Again abortion is also used to refer to a pregnancy that ends due to natural means as well. No one actually knows if the HEK was a procured abortion
    "Though HEK293 is commonly believed to have been obtained from an aborted human fetus, I received an e-mail a few months ago from Professor Frank Graham, who established this cell line. He tells me that to the best of his knowledge, the exact origin of the HEK293 fetal cells is unclear. They could have come from either a spontaneous miscarriage or an elective abortion." https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/05/63752/

    Since there is no way to know for sure, we must err on the side of caution. 


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #92 on: November 28, 2020, 10:29:44 AM »
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  • "Though HEK293 is commonly believed to have been obtained from an aborted human fetus, I received an e-mail a few months ago from Professor Frank Graham, who established this cell line. He tells me that to the best of his knowledge, the exact origin of the HEK293 fetal cells is unclear. They could have come from either a spontaneous miscarriage or an elective abortion." https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/05/63752/

    Since there is no way to know for sure, we must err on the side of caution.

    ...except that there is no doubt, and I have cited ad nauseum that the cells came from an elective abortion in 1972 in the Netherlands (whose laws prohibiting abortion left an exception to allow abortions to save the life of the mother, which tyey called "therapeutic abortions.").

    Move on please.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline choakley

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #93 on: November 28, 2020, 10:32:25 AM »
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  • First, the object of the car thieves is not the common good, unlike those of the vaccine scientists.

    (vaccine scientists) ostensibly the common good but not really the case

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #94 on: November 28, 2020, 12:46:04 PM »
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  • 1 it's not calculus but a finite number of genetic code
    2 someone else also cites a source and Sean still doesn't believe there's a source. P.S. mine was from an actual peer reviewed medical journal but hey it's not a source
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #95 on: November 28, 2020, 12:55:54 PM »
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  • Sean, the abortion was from 1972, and you mention multiple cell lines which affect the % of original cells used, but then you conclude there is a “direct causality”?  Makes no sense.  It would only be direct causality if the vaccine was using 100% cells from 1972 or 100% cells from abortion.  Which doesn’t happen. 

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #96 on: November 28, 2020, 12:59:46 PM »
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  • Nadir, there's ample situations discussed so Dr and Nurses know how to weigh all types of situations. The only hard and fast no all the time is helping with or teaching contraception. That's always a formal cooperation and mortal
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #97 on: November 28, 2020, 01:12:19 PM »
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  • 2 someone else also cites a source and Sean still doesn't believe there's a source. P.S. mine was from an actual peer reviewed medical journal but hey it's not a source
    What are you talking about???
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #98 on: November 28, 2020, 01:14:31 PM »
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  • Sean, the abortion was from 1972, and you mention multiple cell lines which affect the % of original cells used, but then you conclude there is a “direct causality”?  Makes no sense.  It would only be direct causality if the vaccine was using 100% cells from 1972 or 100% cells from abortion.  Which doesn’t happen.
    What multiple cell lines have I mentioned?  Its CC who wants to keep talking about that.
    Regarding causality, you are wrong: Gen 1 leads to gen 2, and so on.  You never get to the latter without the former.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Marie Teresa

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #99 on: November 28, 2020, 01:26:18 PM »
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  • I already posted this:

    Many people believe it was the former (and people want to believe it, because it seems less bad if the murders happened in the 1960s than if you are actively participating in ongoing murders), but I have heard several sources say it is the latter: 
    https://youtu.be/GpgpRtbMnbQ?t=632

    https://cogforlife.org/2020/10/30/excellent-video-from-no-deception-aborted-fetal-vaccines/

    https://cogforlife.org/vaccines-abortions/
    The Need for Further Fetal Tissue

    The Need for Further Fetal Tissue

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #100 on: November 28, 2020, 01:42:56 PM »
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  • "Though HEK293 is commonly believed to have been obtained from an aborted human fetus, I received an e-mail a few months ago from Professor Frank Graham, who established this cell line. He tells me that to the best of his knowledge, the exact origin of the HEK293 fetal cells is unclear. They could have come from either a spontaneous miscarriage or an elective abortion." https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/05/63752/

    Since there is no way to know for sure, we must err on the side of caution.
    What are the chances of a spontaneous abortion occurring at a site amenable to the scavengers?
    An elective ambition is an offense against God.
    Caution against what, exactly?
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #101 on: November 28, 2020, 01:44:07 PM »
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  • I already posted this:

    The Need for Further Fetal Tissue

    A powerful excerpt:

    "Stated Fr. Stephen Torraco, Professor of Moral Theology at Assumption College regarding the need for these vaccines:

    Saying that something is morally justifiable because I need it as a means to an end, and indeed, a good end (preservation of one’s life) is absolutely identical with the Machiavellian principle that the end justifies the means (or, that evil may be done in order to accomplish good) and, thus, absolutely unacceptable and morally indefensible…. Secondly, precisely because this Machiavellian principle is morally indefensible, one needs to examine the very thing needed in this particular case ¾ cell lines from aborted fetuses. To say that one needs the cell lines of aborted fetuses to preserve one’s life is inseparable from saying that one needs the abortions ¾ intrinsically evil actions ¾ that make the cell lines available… If I need the vaccine (and it is a need that can be satisfied only by an aborted fetus) and if I defend my need, I will the abortion. The person receiving the vaccination may well be living long after the fetus was actually aborted, and had no involvement in and may even have no knowledge of the particular and actual fetus that was aborted. However, the remoteness in time is not sufficient for arguing that there is no act of the will on the part of the recipient of the vaccine.” [54]
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Marie Teresa

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #102 on: November 28, 2020, 01:47:06 PM »
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  • A powerful excerpt:

    "Stated Fr. Stephen Torraco, Professor of Moral Theology at Assumption College regarding the need for these vaccines:

    Saying that something is morally justifiable because I need it as a means to an end, and indeed, a good end (preservation of one’s life) is absolutely identical with the Machiavellian principle that the end justifies the means (or, that evil may be done in order to accomplish good) and, thus, absolutely unacceptable and morally indefensible…. Secondly, precisely because this Machiavellian principle is morally indefensible, one needs to examine the very thing needed in this particular case ¾ cell lines from aborted fetuses. To say that one needs the cell lines of aborted fetuses to preserve one’s life is inseparable from saying that one needs the abortions ¾ intrinsically evil actions ¾ that make the cell lines available… If I need the vaccine (and it is a need that can be satisfied only by an aborted fetus) and if I defend my need, I will the abortion. The person receiving the vaccination may well be living long after the fetus was actually aborted, and had no involvement in and may even have no knowledge of the particular and actual fetus that was aborted. However, the remoteness in time is not sufficient for arguing that there is no act of the will on the part of the recipient of the vaccine.” [54]
    Thank you!

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #103 on: November 28, 2020, 01:51:50 PM »
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  • Nadir, there's ample situations discussed so Dr and Nurses know how to weigh all types of situations. The only hard and fast no all the time is helping with or teaching contraception. That's always a formal cooperation and mortal
    Your claim  " that pre Vatican II it was lawful for a nurse to assist at an abortion for certain grave reasons" is still pure nonsense. What you presented is advice/commentary by some ethicist which carries little weight as far as Church teaching goes. 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #104 on: November 28, 2020, 03:05:25 PM »
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  • Nadir, no this is not a priests opinion
    1 it's a text used to train Dr and Nurses in moral theology
    2 it's approved by the Archbishop of Philadelphia who was a Holy Cross member, it was approved by the Augustinians  which had to approve of the book in the first place. It was in it's fourth printing which required approval each time. It was made with consultation of other theological experts. It was approved as a teaching text for a Catholic universities theological department. It is not one person's opinion.
    And yes there are conditions foreseeable as the example quite clearly states that the reasons are very grave but possible.

    You can not dismiss this as just an opinion since this was used for training in Catholic hospitals in the area as well
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا