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Author Topic: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article  (Read 22338 times)

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Offline Yeti

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Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
« Reply #330 on: December 03, 2020, 08:21:28 PM »
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #331 on: December 03, 2020, 09:12:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on December 03, 2020, 12:38:30 PM
    There are evils beside murder. It's just fundamentally impossible to participate in a sin that happened decades before you were born. You can cooperate in the sense that it's an ongoing thing, i.e accepting the vaccine may encourage them to abort more babies to create new fetal lines, but you can't retroactively participate in something that you were never around for. That's nuts.
    I feel like someone who has been wandering the psych ward trying to find my way out, and just ran into the only other sane person in the place. :jester:
    .
    Thank you, Forlorn. I have been raising these objections, and your other similar points, for pages now and so far have been a voice crying in the wilderness. At least there are two of us now. Those are fighting numbers!
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    Beware, though. The ladies will downvote all your posts.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #332 on: December 03, 2020, 09:22:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 03, 2020, 12:52:56 PM
    False-

    Everyone would agree that knowingly receiving stolen property would be sinful.

    Yet it is retroactive (i.e., the theft happened before I accepted the stolen property).

    But my desire/consent to receive it after the fact unites me morally to the original theft:

    By accepting the stolen property, I am implicitly expressing my consent to the original theft.

    Same thing here.
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    I made this same answer when Ladislaus came up with his stolen car analogy. The problem with the stolen car analogy is that someone in possession of stolen property commits an ongoing sin by keeping it from its rightful owner. Someone who receives a vaccine does not commit an ongoing sin as long as he has the vaccine drug in his body.
    .
    So what, you ask? Well, as Forlorn points out, it is not the receiving of the property that is wrong, but the keeping it from its owner. So if someone who receives a stolen car has to return it to its proper owner, does that mean that someone who receives a drug made with the use of cells derived from an aborted fetus is obliged to restore the fetus to life?
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #333 on: December 03, 2020, 09:40:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on December 03, 2020, 09:22:24 PM
    .
    I made this same answer when Ladislaus came up with his stolen car analogy. The problem with the stolen car analogy is that someone in possession of stolen property commits an ongoing sin by keeping it from its rightful owner. Someone who receives a vaccine does not commit an ongoing sin as long as he has the vaccine drug in his body.
    .
    So what, you ask? Well, as Forlorn points out, it is not the receiving of the property that is wrong, but the keeping it from its owner. So if someone who receives a stolen car has to return it to its proper owner, does that mean that someone who receives a drug made with the use of cells derived from an aborted fetus is obliged to restore the fetus to life?
    Of course not.  Not because it isn’t required, but because it’s impossible.  This is why murder is more serious than grand theft auto.  The consequences of murder are greater in magnitude and over time than auto theft.  If I were to murder a young woman, I would perhaps destroy her children’s lives and short circuit the birth into the world of saints.  I’ll never know in this life the extent of the damage and the depth of the evil.  That will be revealed at the Last Judgment.  If I steal the family car I may cause them to go hungry because food money is used to replace the vehicle.  I may cause the husband to lose his job, having no transportation, his uncaring boss fires him, or the children fall behind and fail at school, having no means of getting there.  Maybe someone goes to Hell because they don’t get to Confession, they trip, hit their head, and die in mortal sin...but all this is a stretch!
    Keep in mind that abortion is murder, not car theft or the receiving of stolen property.  The natural consequences are great in magnitude and over time.
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #334 on: December 03, 2020, 10:55:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on December 03, 2020, 09:22:24 PM
    .
    I made this same answer when Ladislaus came up with his stolen car analogy. The problem with the stolen car analogy is that someone in possession of stolen property commits an ongoing sin by keeping it from its rightful owner. Someone who receives a vaccine does not commit an ongoing sin as long as he has the vaccine drug in his body.
    .
    So what, you ask? Well, as Forlorn points out, it is not the receiving of the property that is wrong, but the keeping it from its owner. So if someone who receives a stolen car has to return it to its proper owner, does that mean that someone who receives a drug made with the use of cells derived from an aborted fetus is obliged to restore the fetus to life?
    No , because you can't, but for the cause of justice,  we are responsible to return the 'cells' to the deceased. Bury them and restore the dignity of the body to the deceased child and return to God what is God's.  We cannot continue the inhuman utilitarian use of cells of a child who is now dead.
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    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #335 on: December 06, 2020, 12:59:00 PM »
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    • Bishop Williamson's view on the issue of the vaccine:

    (Start at 20:54)






    I recommend listening to the rest of the sermon as well, but the subject of the COVID vaccine is covered at the indicated time.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #336 on: December 06, 2020, 01:23:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on December 03, 2020, 10:55:18 PM
    No , because you can't, but for the cause of justice,  we are responsible to return the 'cells' to the deceased. Bury them and restore the dignity of the body to the deceased child and return to God what is God's.  We cannot continue the inhuman utilitarian use of cells of a child who is now dead.

    Exactly.

    You can't keep stolen goods, and you can't CONTINUE TO violate the body of a deceased HUMAN BEING. We're Catholics; we believe in the Resurrection of the Body at the Last Day. We're not utilitarian consumers of godless "science".

    Why not just liquefy the bodies of the dead, and use them to make food (whole or in part)? Why not use human bones as decor, or grind them up to make mortar? Let's treat human beings like machines, why don't we? Then a dead human being would just be "spare parts" to be harvested -- whatever is found useful for other living human beings.

    How about NO.
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    Offline andy

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #337 on: December 06, 2020, 05:00:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: StLouisIX on December 06, 2020, 12:59:00 PM
    Bishop Williamson's view on the issue of the vaccine:

    (Start at 20:54)






    I recommend listening to the rest of the sermon as well, but the subject of the COVID vaccine is covered at the indicated time.
    It seems that +Williamson left the door open.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #338 on: December 06, 2020, 05:12:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: StLouisIX on December 06, 2020, 12:59:00 PM
    Bishop Williamson's view on the issue of the vaccine:

    (Start at 20:54)






    I recommend listening to the rest of the sermon as well, but the subject of the COVID vaccine is covered at the indicated time.
    Interesting that Bishop Williamson does make allowances for those who "need" to take the vaccine in order to keep a job or to feed one's family.    
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    Offline andy

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #339 on: December 06, 2020, 06:14:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on December 06, 2020, 05:12:35 PM
    Interesting that Bishop Williamson does make allowances for those who "need" to take the vaccine in order to keep a job or to feed one's family.    
    I do not think that he makes any allowances, just leaves the question open (and that is limited to very specific circuмstances)
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    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #340 on: December 06, 2020, 06:15:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on December 06, 2020, 05:12:35 PM
    Interesting that Bishop Williamson does make allowances for those who "need" to take the vaccine in order to keep a job or to feed one's family.    
    He does say that the use of aborted fetal tissue outweighs this. 
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #341 on: December 06, 2020, 06:15:48 PM »
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    • I just sent His Excellency the following email:

    "Greetings Your Lordship-

    I was listening to Your Lordship's sermon of Dec. 6 regarding the COVID19 abortive vaccine.  Can your Lordship confirm that the SSPX is correct in advising their faithful that there can be certain circuмstances in which the use of abortive vaccines is morally acceptable/permissible?

    If so, what do you make of Fr. Scott's 2000 article concluding the contrary (or the words of those like Vigano, Burke, Schneider, et al. who, without supplying a supporting rationale, nevertheless concur that such vaccines can never be used)?"

    Should I get a response, and permission to post it, I will do so.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #342 on: December 06, 2020, 07:31:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: StLouisIX on December 06, 2020, 06:15:25 PM
    He does say that the use of aborted fetal tissue outweighs this.
    No he does not...not in all circuмstances.
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    Offline andy

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #343 on: December 06, 2020, 10:38:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 06, 2020, 06:15:48 PM
    I just sent His Excellency the following email:
    As a faithful who takes a seat in a last few, I would say that His Most Reverend Excellency remark in this video is an answer to recent SSPX articles.
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    Offline MarcelJude

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    Re: Fr. Chazal on SSPX/COVID19 Vaccinations Article
    « Reply #344 on: December 08, 2020, 04:26:42 AM »
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