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Author Topic: Fr. Chautard and the "Redlight" Position  (Read 1255 times)

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Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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Re: Fr. Chautard and the "Redlight" Position
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2025, 01:55:30 AM »
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  • Your post is not correct. Canon 2261 of the old canon law allows the reception of sacraments of heretics if they are still uncondemned by church authority for any just cause. It even states, that you are allowed to receive the sacrements if they are otherwise non available.
    There's a lot to unpack there and you know it. 

    Issues of validity for one.
    Then there is the question of whether it is possible to get an alternative.
    Then also what type of sacrament.

    Plus finally there is a question of prudence. Many people are getting sacraments regularly from the SSPX. Is that truly a "just cause". Doubt it.

    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: Fr. Chautard and the "Redlight" Position
    « Reply #16 on: June 19, 2025, 01:56:01 AM »
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  • You can’t resist what you continue to assist.
    :laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:
    Exactly


    Offline coeurvoil

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    Re: Fr. Chautard and the "Redlight" Position
    « Reply #17 on: June 19, 2025, 11:45:56 AM »
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  • There's a lot to unpack there and you know it.

    Issues of validity for one.
    Then there is the question of whether it is possible to get an alternative.
    Then also what type of sacrament.

    Plus finally there is a question of prudence. Many people are getting sacraments regularly from the SSPX. Is that truly a "just cause". Doubt it.
    It really is boiling the frog 

    Offline Dominique

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    Re: Fr. Chautard and the "Redlight" Position
    « Reply #18 on: June 20, 2025, 10:17:37 PM »
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  • If at this point 13 years on, you are still going to the SSPX for Mass, you really need your head checked for sanity.

    Nobody who goes to the SSPX ends up staying with the resistance. They end up like frogs in boiling water, becoming liberal over time.
    I totally agree!! And Plenus Venter has seen it happen first hand!!! 

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Fr. Chautard and the "Redlight" Position
    « Reply #19 on: June 20, 2025, 11:15:11 PM »
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  • I totally agree!! And Plenus Venter has seen it happen first hand!!!
    Well, it's a matter of knowing yourself, and knowing the issues.
    Sadly, I have seen far more casualties from shunning the SSPX.
    It is sad to see liberalism in the Resistance, families who were once daily Mass attendees sliding into worldliness, not having the supports they need to maintain the fervour of their children, etc.
    It can be a difficult problem, and what is right for one family might not be right for another.


    Offline Dominique

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    Re: Fr. Chautard and the "Redlight" Position
    « Reply #20 on: June 20, 2025, 11:22:23 PM »
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  • Well, it's a matter of knowing yourself, and knowing the issues.
    Sadly, I have seen far more casualties from shunning the SSPX.
    It is sad to see liberalism in the Resistance, families who were once daily Mass attendees sliding into worldliness, not having the supports they need to maintain the fervour of their children, etc.
    It can be a difficult problem, and what is right for one family might not be right for another.
    Well, I believe that what you are describing is a lack of fighting spirit. But that will also mean liberalism if these families attend the SSPX... 
    My brothers, for lack of SSPX schools in those days, went to public schools. But my parents had a fighting spirit, albeit no support whatsoever. My brothers are very devout, one in a Third Order, the other in the Militia Immaculata. Fr Chazal explained it well one day, piety is not enough... 

    Offline Dominique

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    Re: Fr. Chautard and the "Redlight" Position
    « Reply #21 on: June 20, 2025, 11:46:35 PM »
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  • Well, I believe that what you are describing is a lack of fighting spirit. But that will also mean liberalism if these families attend the SSPX...
    My brothers, for lack of SSPX schools in those days, went to public schools. But my parents had a fighting spirit, albeit no support whatsoever. My brothers are very devout, one in a Third Order, the other in the Militia Immaculata. Fr Chazal explained it well one day, piety is not enough...
    I forgot to mention: this was in the 70s, and they didn't even have Mass because my parents wouldn't go to Novus Ordo masses...

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Fr. Chautard and the "Redlight" Position
    « Reply #22 on: June 21, 2025, 03:58:21 PM »
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  • I forgot to mention: this was in the 70s, and they didn't even have Mass because my parents wouldn't go to Novus Ordo masses...
    So, how your parents keep the fighting spirit alive if you had no Mass, no sacraments, no priest, and the children attended public school? In what sort of area did you grow up? What was done for social life outside your family? How did your parents combat the lies and horrible examples from public school? 


    Offline Dominique

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    Re: Fr. Chautard and the "Redlight" Position
    « Reply #23 on: June 21, 2025, 08:51:20 PM »
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  • So, how your parents keep the fighting spirit alive if you had no Mass, no sacraments, no priest, and the children attended public school? In what sort of area did you grow up? What was done for social life outside your family? How did your parents combat the lies and horrible examples from public school?
    It's a good question :-)  I often think of the Japanese people, who kept the Faith for 400 years without priests, it can be done.

    In the case of my family, my brothers were born in the mid 60s. The never went to Mass because they had no idea Tradition was still around. I don't even think they said the daily Rosary as a family. However, when they found Tradition again in 1981, my brothers were 16 yo and 18 yo, they went to Mass regularly, became altar servers and learnt Latin from an old friend of the family.
    Public schools were not as disastrous as they are nowadays though, I have to admit. My parents once tried a NO Catholic school and it was a disaster, they took them out after a trimester and never tried again!

    How did my parents do it? An incredibly fighting spirit, political involvement, talk, talk, talk, and lots of good reading. My brother was reading a political-religious magazine, a very hard one, by 14 years old. There was hardly any small talk at the table, it was religion and politics. Involvement in political gatherings, a reactionary spirit, constantly fighting the world. We were not mundane, no dancing or parties.
    My parents were involved in helping the Polish people when they were under Communist domination, convoys with food, clothes and medical supplies, combined with pilgrimages to our Lady of Czestochowa.

    I guess it's a matter of the spirit you give your children. Saying the Rosary every day as a family is very good, but it is not enough. I have seen families saying the Rosary every day as a family, but the parents do not instil that fighting spirit to their children, and in the end, the children are a disaster, or at best extremely worldly. Father Chazal did talk about it once, but it was in chapel, I don't think it's a recorded sermon unfortunately...