Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson  (Read 10117 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Adolphus

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Reputation: +467/-6
  • Gender: Male
Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
« on: August 26, 2013, 03:03:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This article was published HERE yesterday and Cristian had posted a reference to it in another thread, but I believe it deserves its own thread.

    The text is easier to read following the link provided above, because of the format, but I copied and pasted here anyway:


    Father Ceriani’s RESPONSE TO BISHOP WILLIAMSON

    On Friday, August 9, I anticipated a response to Bp. Williamson:

    http://radiocristiandad.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/p-juan-carlos-ceriani-para-reflexionar-sobre-la-satira-de-mons-williamson/

    From the selected points, I will begin with the following:

    You spoke not when good colleagues were expelled.

    Their cause, but not their persons, I upheld.

    Usted no habló cuando buenos colegas fueron expulsados.

    Su causa, pero no sus personas, he propugnado.


    I begin with this point because it clarifies much of [what is covered by] the others. Indeed, at least in my case, it is not true that Bishop Williamson has advocated my cause.

    And what is my cause in this case? I have already published it several times. But here it goes again, and in chronological order:

    * June 30, 1988: Episcopal Consecrations. I adhered thereto.

    * July 1, 1988: Declaration of Excommunication decree signed by Cardinal Gantin.

    * July 6, 1988: SSPX Superiors’ open letter to Cardinal Gantin. I adhered to it. I summarize the essentials:

    (…) We have never wished to belong to this system which calls itself the Conciliar Church, and defines itself with the Novus Ordo Missæ, an ecuмenism which leads to indifferentism and the laicization of all society.
    Yes, we have no part, nullam partem habemus, with the pantheon of the religions of Assisi; our own excommunication by a decree of Your Eminence or of another Roman Congregation would only be the irrefutable proof of this.
    We ask for nothing better than to be declared out of communion with this adulterous spirit which has been blowing in the Church for the last 25 years; we ask for nothing better than to be declared outside of this impious communion of the ungodly.

    (…) To be publicly associated with this sanction which is inflicted upon the six Catholic Bishops, Defenders of the Faith in its integrity and wholeness, would be for us a mark of honor and a sign of orthodoxy before the faithful.
    They have indeed a strict right to know that the priests who serve them are not in communion with a counterfeit church, promoting evolution, pentecostalism and syncretism.

    * September 2000: Bishop Fellay interview by Stefano Maria Paci, published on 30 Giorni No. 9.

    * November 2000: Concerned about this interview, I call Bp. Williamson, who downplays my fears and says: “Trust Bishop Fellay”.

    * April 2, 2001: New telephone call. Bp. Williamson tells me, “You were right, it all started with that interview”.

    * Pentecost 2001: Pilgrimage Chartres-Paris, under the slogan: “For the reconquest”. Here begins a subject of litigation in the District of South America. Opinions are divided about the battle that we must carry out: is it to reconquer or to resist? This translates to the relationship of Father Ceriani with his colleagues and superiors, reaching to the Superior General.

    * Between 2001 and 2003 there were several letters of Bishop Williamson as Director of the Seminary of Winona, but always that was needed a clear position, it was never taken. This gave rise to the saying, “Bp. Williamson turns on the right blinker, but makes a left turn”.

    * In December 2002, in the District House in South America, I had a personal conversation with Bishop Williamson on the development, strategy and tactics of our fight. Everything [we talk] was centered around the interpretation of Apocalypse and the events of recent times. The theme of the reconquest or resistance also appeared. I will come back to this later.

    * June 6, 2004: Letter from Bishop Fellay to Cardinal Castrillon de Hoyos officially asking the withdrawal of the decree of excommunication.

    * June 18, 2004: Letter to Friends and Benefactors No. 66, in which it is announced this official request of the withdrawal of the decree.

    Bp. Williamson accepted the request of the withdrawal of the decree of the excommunications. To that I opposed since the very time the request was presented officially in June 2004.

    * July 31, 2004: I send a letter about this request to the members of the Council and to the remaining two bishops of the SSPX, being Bp. Williamson one of them.

    * August 2004: Response from Bp. Williamson: “Everything would indicate that Bishop Fellay is changing the rifle to the other shoulder. But, do not leave the Society.”

    * October 17, 2004: Homily of Bishop Williamson in Saint Nicolas-de-Chardonet. All present interpreted the clear support to the mutiny organized by Father Laguerie and his troops. After the Mass, Father Beauvais showed in the sacristy his anger towards Bp. Williamson.

    * Since then until July 2007, Monsignor stays in great silence, except for an interview to Rivarol in January 2007 (over 16 responses, 4 were unacceptable, ie, 25%).

    * The General Chapter of 2006 launches the Rosary crusade to obtain the two preconditions. Bishop Williamson, as Director of the Seminary of La Reja, fulfills them. I did not pray a single Hail Mary for those intentions nor promoted them among my parishioners.

    * I did not sing the Te Deum to thank the motu proprio. I said it rather deserved the Dies irae …

    * Three Eleison Comments on the motu proprio of July 2007: July 14, 2007, August 25, 2007 and September 15, 2007.

    * Given the startling declarations of Monsignor about the motu proprio in his Eleison Comments, I decided to write a letter to him in order to clarify things, on September 28, 2007.

    * Bp. Williamson replied on December 2.

    * This demanded a reply from me entering into the details of the motu proprio. And I decided not to celebrate my 25th anniversary of ordination to the priesthood at the Seminary of La Reja with Msg. Williamson preaching.

    * Why so much trouble?

    Because the Roman Rite of the Mass, which had never lost its right, lost —de jure—, its status of unique ordinary and official form due to the motu proprio of July 7, 2007.

    Because, according to the motu proprio of Benedict XVI, the Traditional Missal must be considered abrogated as the ordinary expression of the Liturgy of the Church.

    Because the antichrist and Modernist Rome, through the motu proprio, humiliated the Roman Rite of the Holy Mass, relegating it to the status of “extraordinary form” and uniting it to the “bastard montinian rite” which would be the “ordinary form” of the unique Roman rite.

    Because, despite all this, Bishop Williamson did sing a Te Deum, at the Seminary of La Reja to celebrate the motu proprio.

    Because Msg. Williamson wrote in his Comment of September 15, 2007: «the so-called “Tridentine Mass” is loaded with Catholic doctrine, so I can only rejoice that the Motu Proprio both recognizes that it was never properly suppressed and grants a certain freedom to priests to celebrate it.»

    Because Bp. Williamson received a letter from Father Ceriani, dated December 21, 2007 (which he never responded), that read:

    «Do not be seduced by the illusion that the traditional Mass, by itself, maintains or moves, completely and necessarily, the priest and the faithful into the good doctrine. As a proof of this, we see the schismatic Orthodox faithful (who have never changed the liturgy for centuries and yet remain outside of the Church). During the Second Vatican Council the Pope and all the bishops celebrated the traditional Mass, and yet they changed the Tradition of the Church. More recently, those who signed an agreement with Rome, gradually adhered to the new doctrines resulting from the Council Vatican II, and that happened while they were praying the traditional Mass.»

    * October 23, 2008: Letter to Friends and Benefactors No. 73, launching the Crusade to demand the withdrawal of the decree of excommunication.

    * Feast of Christ the King in 2008 in Lourdes: In the midst of an embarrassing syncretism with the Official Conciliar Church, and in the presence of the other three Bishops, Monsignor Fellay officially launches the Crusade.

    * December 15, 2008: Letter from Bishop Fellay to Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos asking for the lifting of the excommunication.

    * January 17, 2009: Bishop Fellay receives, at 16 hours, from Cardinal Castrillón de Hoyos’s hands, the Decree of the lifting of the excommunications, signed on January 21 (!?), to make it known by Monday 26 (!!??) …

    * January 21, 2009: Things are precipitated by the publication of Bishop Williamson’s statements and the threat of the weekly Der Spiegel.

    * January 22, 2009: Publication of the decree lifting the excommunications.

    * January 24, 2009: Letter to the Faithful and Press release by Bishop Fellay.

    * January 25, 2009: Magnificat of gratitude in the SSPX’s houses and lecture of Bishop Fellay’s letter of January 24. I did not sing the Magnificat nor read [to the faithful] the Letter of the Superior General.

    * January 29, 2009: Letter of the four bishops to Benedict XVI:

    «Most Holy Father,

    In sentiments of thanksgiving we wish to express our deep gratitude for Your act of paternal kindness and for the apostolic courage by which You rendered ineffective the measure which was imposed upon us 20 years ago as a consequence of our episcopal consecrations.»

    * January 30, 2009: Letter of Bishop Williamson to Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos

    «Please also accept, and convey to the Holy Father, my sincere personal thanks for the docuмent signed last Wednesday and made public on Saturday.»

    * January 31, 2009: I send through fax my appeal letter to all Major Superiors of the SSPX, including Monsignor Williamson, who never deigned to respond.

    * January 31, 2009: Letter from Bishop Fellay to all members of the SSPX.

    * February 3, 2009: Publication of my appeal letter on the Internet, in Spanish and French:

    (…) I declare that I make my own all the statements of Archbishop Lefebvre and the authorities of the Society at the time of the episcopal consecrations, and that I subscribe them.

    I invite the Society’s current authorities to make them theirs and subscribe them publicly.

    I contest and consider null and void, both in law and in fact, the alleged excommunication, the decree which tries to declare them and the decree that attempts to lift them, making to believe that they were not null.

    And I beg the four bishops of the Society that reconsider before God the current situation and, following the example of Archbishop Lefebvre, to step back. In such ambiguous circuмstances, priests and the faithful need to be confirmed in the good fight for the Eternal Rome against the Conciliar Church.

    Fort de France, January 29, 2009

    * February 16, 2009: Letter of Bishop Williamson to Dr. Jesse Gomez Jr., who had asked the Bishop to lead a reaction in the SSPX against Bishop Fellay.

    I do not blame any colleague or superior to try to get a viable future for the SSPX as a whole of the wreckage caused by a few bad chosen words on Swedish television. I am not saying that those words were or are false. I am just saying that it cannot be used to repudiate the present leader of the SSPX.

    I could resist, if it were to stop a bad deal with Rome, but I do not think that is the current situation. If that were the case, I think I could speak, because the Faith would be at stake, and I have to say what I think. Trust me when I say that the SSPX is not betraying nor abandoning.

    + + +

    In light of this chronology, reread Bp. Williamson’s answer [to Fr. Méramo]: Their cause, but not their persons, I upheld …

    I highlight some facts and again ask some questions about the riddles contained by the Episcopal poem:

    * Did Bp. Williamson approve the Open Letter to the Superiors of the July 6, 1988?

    * This Open Letter is inconsistent with everything they did, asked, approved, celebrated and appreciated. How does he explain or justify so?

    * Did Bp. Williamson know the real contents of the Letter of December 15, 2008? [The letter in which the lifting of the excommunications was asked, and which stated that «We are ready to write the Creed with our own blood, to sign the anti-modernist oath, the profession of faith of Pius IV, we accept and make our own all the councils up to the Second Vatican Council about which we express some reservations.»]

    * If so, when and how did he know the original letter? [The letter quoting the text accepting vatican ii was soon modified to exclude second vatican council after the reaction of priests and laymen.]

    * Why did he not say anything about the acceptance of Vatican II that is contained in the Letter of December 15, 2008?

    * When and how did he know the Decree of January 21, 2009? [The lifting of the excommunications]

    * The fact is that Monsignor did not react against it.

    * Did he sing the Magnificat at the Seminary of La Reja on Sunday January 25, 2009? [To thank the lifting of the excommunications.]

    * Did he read to the faithful that day the original text of the thanksgiving letter of Bishop Fellay?

    * Mgs.Williamson signed the Letter thanking Benedict XVI.

    * It is also true that he sent a letter to Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos.

    * Monsignor did not respond to my appeal.

    * He wrote a letter to Dr. Jesse Gomez Jr.

    * Bp. Williamson declared [in an interview by] Non Possumus: “I think that what I wrote and thought during that moment was, again, incomplete. But I wanted, I wanted not to depart from Bishop Fellay, I wanted to approve my fellows.”

    * What is the “reserve” contained in the letter to Benedict XVI that allowed him to sign it? [Fr. Ceriani is referring to what Bp. Williamson declared in the Non Possumus interview: «after the lifting, he [Bp. Fellay] wrote a letter to thank the Pope. And this letter, I signed it, because there was in this letter of gratitude, after the lifting, a phrase, there was a reserve that allowed me to sign this letter of thanks.»]

    * Can Monsignor point to any “Eleison comment” in which he retracts his mistakes and apologizes for giving a bad example?

    + + +

    I ask anyone with common sense and good judgment: could it be said that the cause of Father Ceriani has been upheld by Bishop Williamson?

    + + +

    I reiterate once again that, on several occasions, privately and publicly, I have drawn attention to the attitudes of Bishop Williamson.

    It is not to be forgotten that he has been part in many adverse events that have occurred over the last 12 or 13 years to prepare the Society for the agreement.

    Four clear examples I have provided:

    1) The acceptance and defense of the motu proprio of July 7, 2007.

    2) Asking for, accepting and thanking the lifting of the excommunication in January 2009.

    3) Not having challenged nor repudiated, but rather having allowed, even supported and even justified the doctrinal discussions.

    4) The related to the regrettable phrase: «to obtain from Rome that precious regularization which Rome alone has the authority to grant.»

    Points 3 and 4 have not been answered either now with his poetry …

    + + +

    I said that I was going to start with the point on the cause advocated because it clarifies a lot of others. Now let us consider:

    The harm was there. For years you did not speak.

    One always hopes the harm will never peak.

    You praised the Motu Proprio – Roman trick !


    It’s true. To see the good I was too quick.

    You spoke not when good colleagues were expelled.

    Their cause, but not their persons, I upheld.

    It appears that, to Bp. Williamson, the fault became to be so grave that forced him to act recently until May 2012 …

    Moreover, Bp. Williamson, never clarified the situations prior to his expulsion, nor for what reasons, even long after his expulsion from the SSPX, he still advised the priests to not leave the Society.

    + + +

    On August 2, regarding the Rivarol interview, I stated that Bp. Williamson distorts the reality:

    http://radiocristiandad.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/padre-ceriani-monsenor-williamson-tuerce-la-realidad/

    «But some Catholics have begun to react. The “Resistance” exploded first of all in the United States in the spring of last year, it manifested itself a little later in South America and in England, but in continental Europe it isn’t in a rush.»

    Now, [Monsignor] does not respond to the reality that “The” Resistance” firstly exploded in the United States in the spring of last year; it manifested itself a little later in South America and in England.”

    Monsigor knows it.

    Then, Bp. Williamson twists reality.

    Did he lie? Does he say part of the truth and hides the other?

    Only God knows.

    It turns out that when Bishop Williamson is inspired by the muses, the reality is different:

    The Resistance started well before last year.

    It’s true, and those who blazed the trail are dear.

    In just eight days he untwists reality, but, is it to straighten it, or simply to appease those “dear”? …

    Doubt remains floating.

    So I say: keep your sweet tart and appreciation!; Stop being sweet, as Benedict I am not! Your cake is nothing sweet, and actually it is a lemon! [Here, Fr. Ceriani is referring to a cake mentioned in the translation to Spanish of the stichomythic verse]

    + + +

    Let us come to spiritual authors recommended Williamson:

    You love Maria Valtorta’s crazy work.

    That accusation is one I will not shirk.

    Usted ama la loca obra de María Valtorta.

    Eludir esa acusación no me toca.

    The translation [to Spanish] (official?, Informal??) is not accurate. It suggests that it is not Mgs. Williamson who should avoid such charge, but someone else in his place.

    As far as I was told, what corresponds [to what Monsignor really said] is: That accusation is one I will not shirk, or shy away, or avoid, etc..

    That means: Yes, I like Valtorta, so what?, And that’s why I recommend her as spiritual reading.

    Bp. Williamson does not specify whether he likes it all, or just a small part of it, but he likes and shares her writings, despite they have been included in the Index of prohibited books; he upholds their cause and I don’t know if also the person …

    God save me from the causes upheld by the Bishop!

    + + +

    Then follows another verse:

    All kinds of apparitions make you enthuse.

    St Paul said, “Sift, and keep what’s good.” That’s news?

    Toda clase de apariciones lo entusiasman.

    San Pablo dijo, “Tamiza y conserva lo bueno” ¿Hubo en eso mudanza?

    St. Paul says in I Thessalonians, V, 19-22: Extinguish not the spirit. Despise not prophecies, but prove all things; hold fast that which is good. From all appearance of evil refrain yourselves.

    About this there was no change, but not all kinds of apparitions should get us enthused. The “apparitionism” is not a good thing by itself.

    We suppose that Francis does not criticize nor judge those who have a tendency towards “apparitionism” … But this is not a reference.

    St. Thomas says: Show how to have to be around and singularly to have discretion (Rm 12). In this matter, a careful examination must be applied, selecting the good, rejecting the bad. As to the first one, he says, “despise not prophecies, but prove all things”, namely, the dubious, because the ones are clear don’t need examination. “Believe not every spirit” (I Jn, 4, 1). Regarding the second one, he says, “and yield to the good” (Gal. 4). As for the tirad one: “Depart from all appearance of evil” (Isaiah 7). And he says appearance, because we must avoid even the appearance of evil which is what can be done in the presence of men without causing any scandal to them.

    The sensitive point is therefore, the instrument used to examine the prophecies.

    I said above I would return to the conversation I had with Bishop Williamson in the District House in South America in December 2002 about the development, strategy and tactics of our fight. Everything we talk was centered around the interpretation of Apocalypse and the events of recent times.

    On this subject I told him: I do not examine the Revelation in the light of private apparitions, but examine private apparitions in the light of Revelation. That is, if I find in an alleged apparition something that opposes or even deviates from what has been revealed (Sacred Scripture or Tradition), I consider it as false.

    Bp. Williamson, in his trademark histrionics, shaking his head and raising his eyebrows, showed their displeasure.

    This is therefore a fundamental point that marks the beginning of two interpretations of the current moment of combat, and establishes two different strategies with their tactics.

    While Mgs. Williamson argues that the current fight is one of resistance, however, supported in various apparitions and his interpretation of others, he expects a triumph and a restoration before the Antichrist.

    Take for example the interpretation of the Apocalypse of Barthélémi Holzhauser, died in 1658. We know that Bishop Williamson is very adept at this author.

    He [Barthélémi Holzhauser] assures that in the middle of the year 1855 the Antichrist will be born, that he will live fifty-five years and a half, and that, therefore, will be defeated by Our Lord in 1911.

    Let us not extinguish the Spirit, not despise prophesying, examine everything; let’s stick to the good, let us refrain from all kinds of evil.

    Just on that page should we abstain? What assurance do we have for the other ones? It’s about those, among others, that Bishop Williamson is based to say that we are still in the church of Sardis, and assures us what he so often said, and recently stated in his interview with Non Possumus about the end of the crisis:

    «A punishment, a divine punishment, a rain of fire. There is nothing else to cleanse the world and the Church.

    Our Lady of Akita, in Japan, in 1973, on October 13, ie the day of Fatima, October 13, the day of the miracle of Fatima. This means that Our Lady spoke to this religious lady, in Japan, She wanted to make the connection with Fatima. And indeed, the men of the Church locked Fatima in a drawer and locked it.

    Our Lady came to say the same things in Akita, Japan, and She spoke of punishment as never was seen in the history of the humanity.

    The good and the bad will perish, priests and laity; the survivors will envy the dead, because the conditions will be so terrible after the punishment.

    Many prophecies say it will start with the third world war, because war is a punishment for sin. Sins are abundant. There must be a war to punish these sins.

    The war will be amplified. Finally, it’ll be atomic, and atomic bombs everywhere. War, not five-year war as the Second World War, but, according to the prophecies, in two or three months.

    And invasion of Europe by the Russians.

    The three days of darkness. Many prophecies about this.

    And after three days of darkness in which God will remove many of their enemies, not all, but many, and they won’t escape from the wrath of God.

    After this a period of peace, the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. About twenty five years, said Our Lady of La Salette.

    And then, corruption and the coming of the Antichrist.

    That’s how I see things. I’m not the only one who sees it that way. But it is not a dogma, it is a possibility, perhaps a probability, but not a certainty.»

    Note well that in this interpretation, corruption and the coming of Antichrist is after the establishment of the Kingdom of Mary. Therefore, the Antichrist will trample the Marian kingdom … If after examining all, Bp. Williamson stick to this as being good … well, we better move on to the last point.

    + + +

    The verse says:

    Cath’lic Resistance you just undermine.

    Let time be judge. Its judgment will be mine.

    To not lengthen this more, I will reply with the same poem:

    The harm was there. For years you did not speak.

    One always hopes the harm will never peak…

    If that’s the way Bp. Williamson has been with the Society…, letting the time to pass by to then judge…, we can start to anticipate what will happen to the flaccid resistance.

    + + +

    Those who have responded since May 2012 have accepted, like Bp. Williamson, the motu proprio, the lifting of the excommunication, not to identify the Official church with the conciliar church, the shameful doctrinal discussions with the antichrist Rome, and a long etcetera …

    I repeat what I already said: Bp. Williamson is not trustworthy.

    For me, Father Juan Carlos Ceriani, this is not new. And so Bishop Williamson knows too…


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 04:12:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • .

    This thread was a good idea, Adolphus..............
    ............Thank you for being organized.  

    .


    Post
    Quote from: Adolphus
    Quote from: Cristian
    Ok, here we go!

    Fr. Ceriani`s response to Bp. Williamson.

    http://radiocristiandad.wordpress.com/2013/08/26/father-cerianis-response-to-bishop-williamson/

    I think the discussion of this answer deserves a new thread, so I just created one HERE.





    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 06:00:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • .

    Not too alarmingly, the ominous and telling OP gets the {empty set}
    in the response department at CI.  


    This is a long read.  But it's packed with chronology and important
    details that are pretty hard to find using a search engine.  Been there,
    done that.  




    But I have a question FWIW:  What is Der Spiegel?  A magazine?  
    I suspect not:  

    "* January 21, 2009: Things are precipitated by the publication of
    Bishop Williamson’s statements and the threat of the weekly Der Spiegel."  

    Is it Eleison Comments?  And, if so, is this a joke?  If so, is there some
    reason that the German phrase replaces the Latin, while the words
    would seem to have no correlation?  Too many questions?  Saree.  Wait.
    That's supposed to be for the New Delhi forum.  HAHAHAHA




    But seriously,
    Fr. Ceriani makes a lot of powerful points.  I'm not convinced it's a good
    idea to shoot from the hip, but since we're discussing this (or supposed
    to be --- Hello?? ---  I'd like to offer one jab at it:  

    It seems to me at first glance that +W had some reasons to be not so
    full-blown combative at the start of this, for whatever reason, and he
    had been thinking that there had perhaps been a good reason to give
    the enemy some room to convert.  

    Something, let's say, and you can ask Tiffany about this, like when a
    thief robs you and he gets apprehended, should you grant him any
    leniency since he's acting or appearing in some way to be not such an
    enemy after all, and maybe he's going to CHANGE (like Rome is
    converting in baby steps -- see the little green sprouts on the branches?
    See the tiny clues that spring is coming?  They are starting to show!),
    so perhaps a bit of GOOD WILL and MERCY are due to him so that he
    will not be so severely punished for his crimes!!

    Now, I don't see anything offhand that looks like an error of fact in
    this rebuttal letter, but I haven't studied it yet.  However, to say that
    +W's claim that "the Resistance" started in 2010 in the northern
    hemisphere is ABOMINABLE, WRONG AND CONTEMPTIBLE, or some
    such language, seems something of a stretch.  

    I, for one, live in the northern hemisphere, and I am Saree -- woops --
    S-O-R-R-Y -- to say that I never heard of Fr. Sareeani.  

    Uhhh... Ceriani ................. Saree.


    Dang. SORRY.  There. That's better.


    Nonetheless, if there are any members of CI who can, as it were,
    plug the dike on this leak, it would be a big help.  There is probably
    a whole list of Latins (as in Latin America) -- priests and brothers
    and laymen, who can help with this.  





    I must say from the start, though, that you guys are going

    to have to keep a stiff upper lip throughout, because we

    (that means north versus south) have a very different sense

    of humor, and while we may like to keep on each other's good

    side by cracking a joke now and then, the other guys are

    likely to be insulted by our pithiness, and this no doubt goes

    BOTH WAYS.  



    If you want to know what I mean by "keep a stiff upper lip," let me
    explain the etymology thereof:  

    During the American Revolution, sailors who were killed in battle at
    sea were buried at sea, using a body bag into which their corpse,
    or parts thereof, was/were placed and then thrown overboard as
    a package deal.  ("Package deal" is yet another idiom.)  But before
    the tossing ceremony, which was actually quite somber and serious,
    the BAG, which was made of very stiff fabric like sail cloth, was
    sewn shut using a sailor's curved needle that looks like a talon
    claw from the Beast of the Apocalypse with 7 heads and 10 horns.
    They sew sails with it, and it's very powerful.  The first stitch they
    do before closing the bag is to pull the upper lip of the corpse out
    a bit, and send that old sailor's needle right through the lip itself,
    after which the bag gets sewn up, and the package deal gets the
    "old deep six to Davy Jones' Locker." (More idioms)  Note:  it's not
    just the needle, but ALL THE THREAD that they would then pull
    through the upper lip-hole, and stitch up the bag with it. The POINT
    is, (pun intended), any soldier who was FAKING IT, trying to APPEAR
    AS THOUGH DEAD, just so that he could GET OUT OF having to
    fight that day or whatever (maybe he got tired of being seasick
    all the time or hated the MESS, that is, SLOP, that is, MENU), and
    therefore was hoping to ESCAPE, by getting tossed overboard
    and take his chances with having kept a knife on his person to
    the effect of being able to cut his way out of the body bag
    before he drowns, and avoid the sharks or the freezing water (it
    was always one or the other, but not both together) and have
    enough stamina left to swim to shore, perhaps 30 miles away,  
    would have to KEEP A STIFF UPPER LIP in order to not FLINCH or
    BLINK or go "uh" when that needle pierced his upper lip.  Because,
    if he reacted in any way, he would be then treated a LOT worse
    than just the needle jab or the "deep-six" treatment.



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Frances

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2660
    • Reputation: +2241/-22
    • Gender: Female
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 06:33:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  :read-paper:Der Spiegel IS a magazine.  
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 07:16:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Frances
    :read-paper:Der Spiegel IS a magazine.  


    Okay, Der Spiegel is a magazine.  But what does that have to do with
    "threats" from +W?  Did he make threats in that magazine?

    What "things" were precipitated?  How?  What constitutes precipitation?
    Rainfall?  I doubt it.  Oh, wait....  



    :read-paper: Precipitation IS rainfall.



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Kazimierz

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7387
    • Reputation: +3487/-87
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 07:50:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    :read-paper: Precipitation IS rainfall.


    And what about the most beautiful form of precipitation, SNOW? :smile:

    And is precipitation limited to the various states of HOH? Does a sandstorm constitute a form of precipitate? Methinks yes.


    A question for the Summa Cathinformatica. :reporter:
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline Adolphus

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 467
    • Reputation: +467/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 10:29:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Frances
    :read-paper:Der Spiegel IS a magazine.  

    Okay, Der Spiegel is a magazine.  But what does that have to do with
    "threats" from +W?  Did he make threats in that magazine?

    What "things" were precipitated?  How?  What constitutes precipitation?
    Rainfall?  I doubt it.  Oh, wait....  

    :read-paper: Precipitation IS rainfall.

    Quote
    pre·cip·i·ta·tion
    noun
    1. the act of precipitating; state of being precipitated.
    2. a casting down or falling headlong.
    3. a hastening or hurrying in movement, procedure, or action.
    4. sudden haste.
    5. unwise or rash rapidity.

    Quote
    * January 21, 2009: Things are precipitated by the publication of Bishop Williamson’s statements and the threat of the weekly Der Spiegel.

    I think Fr. Ceriani means that things happened rapidly due to the publication of what Bp. Williamson had declared about the gas chambers.


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 12:11:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Adolphus
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Frances
    :read-paper:Der Spiegel IS a magazine.  

    Okay, Der Spiegel is a magazine.  But what does that have to do with
    "threats" from +W?  Did he make threats in that magazine?

    What "things" were precipitated?  How?  What constitutes precipitation?
    Rainfall?  I doubt it.  Oh, wait....  

    :read-paper: Precipitation IS rainfall.

    Quote
    pre·cip·i·ta·tion
    noun
    1. the act of precipitating; state of being precipitated.
    2. a casting down or falling headlong.
    3. a hastening or hurrying in movement, procedure, or action.
    4. sudden haste.
    5. unwise or rash rapidity.

    Quote
    * January 21, 2009: Things are precipitated by the publication of Bishop Williamson’s statements and the threat of the weekly Der Spiegel.

    I think Fr. Ceriani means that things happened rapidly due to the publication of what Bp. Williamson had declared about the gas chambers.



    I'm sure you're correct, Adolphus, but I'm still lost.  What "things" happened
    rapidly?  When Liberals are vague we criticize them for ambiguity. Well, this
    is extremely ambiguous.  

    Which of these do NOT apply, and why?  
    Things that happened rapidly due to the +W interview:

    -  Jєωs got upset (Jєωs are always upset anyway - it's their hobby)
    -  Riots were threatened (they were?)
    -  Legislation was passed (what legislation?)
    -  Speeches were made (who made them? content?)
    -  The price of oil went up / or down (it did?)
    -  There was a famine (there was? where? what kind of famine?)
    -  Late night talk shows had new joke material (and the point is....?)
    -  Lots of e-mails got sent all over the world (and what else is new?)
    -  Farmworkers went on strike
    -  Israel sank another US Liberty using unmarked fighter jets
    -  Nuclear testing in North Korea (and that was related how?)
    -  Edward Snowden leaked secret docuмents (huh?)
    -  Peace-loving Mohammedans murdered another Christian

    Please provide examples you like better.  



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Adolphus

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 467
    • Reputation: +467/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 12:20:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    What "things" happened rapidly?

    The context is obviously the SSPX and what is (or was) related to it.

    What things happened rapidly?  Probably Fr. Ceriani refers to the lifting of the excommunications.

    Offline Francisco

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1150
    • Reputation: +843/-18
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 12:54:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • May God bless Fr Ceriani!

    Offline Frances

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2660
    • Reputation: +2241/-22
    • Gender: Female
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 02:21:29 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Francisco
    May God bless Fr Ceriani!


    May God bless Bishop Williamson!
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline Charlotte NC Bill

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 422
    • Reputation: +495/-4
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 04:43:33 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • you're right Frances....how some people insist on just putting the actions of ONE person under such a microscope during this wide crisis infuriates me!

    Offline Johnnier

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 99
    • Reputation: +0/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 04:59:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is as though these enemies of the faith are looking for anything they can find to attack Bp. Williamson.

    Give me a man who is without fault.

    Priest like Fr. Ceriani seem to want to create a personality cult for themselves and want to undermine the good work of Bp. Williamson and caste doubt on his many years of service to the Church by attacking him personality. I don't even think such nonsense should be tolerated here. Do we want to be promoting that, I would hope not.

    Offline Franciscan Solitary

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 265
    • Reputation: +163/-129
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 08:57:44 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Dear Brothers and Sisters,

    Let us not miss the forest for the trees here.  The only man truly under attack in all this is neither Bishop Williamson nor Father Ceriani, but rather Our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Let us not be deceived for even one moment.  The battle here is one of Christ against the Anti-Christ.  Let us not demonize either Bishop Williamson or Father Ceriani (or Padre Meramo).  Let us demonize the one who truly ought to be demonized among us:  That monster and most anti-Catholic Anti-Christ now in the so-called White House, Barack Hussein Obama.

    He is our one true enemy unto the death now.  Together with his utterly damnable and Satanic puppet masters in Jerusalem.


    Offline Adolphus

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 467
    • Reputation: +467/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Fr. Ceriani answers Bp. Williamson
    « Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 09:20:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What does one normally do when noticing some suspicious behavior in a person? One tends to look carefully to such person and, if the suspicious behavior continues, then draw the attention of others to observe and to be prevented.

    Nobody likes to have his/her moral leader being pointed out as a suspicious subject.  And by moral leader I mean a person one trusts and follows, not blindly, but with confidence.

    In my case, it took several months, long readings and long discussions before I, by the grace of God, could accept that Paul VI was doing a great damage to the Church.  Long later, I tried to justify some "strange" behavior in Bp. Fellay, but soon I ended accepting that he was lying and deceiving, that he was doing what he had criticized in others who had betrayed the Tradition, that he was preparing a sell-out.

    Now, we are being warned about Bp. Williamson's erratic behavior.  I admire and respect Bp. Williamson for several things, and because of that I've been trying to find justification of what seems to be serious errors.  I have found some possibilities that could explain some of his actions, but just few of them.  And I cannot accept a mocking poem as an answer to some accusations against His Excellency; I cannot accept his silence either.  And I cannot accept it because by doing so, Bp. Williamson is causing confusion and distrust among some priests and faithful weakening the resistance.

    And of course, warning others about something that could represent a danger, does not make them enemies of the faith.