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Author Topic: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass  (Read 8897 times)

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Offline Augustinus21

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Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2019, 09:19:11 AM »
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  • Lip service to doctrine:

    The SSPX is already 95% "regularized," and there is no conversion of Rome.

    The SSPX has accepted doctrinal pluralism, and Fr. Albert is rolling along with them right into it.
    Yeah, funny. Come back to me after you’ve read what Fr. Gleize writes every month and tell me if he’s accepted doctrinal pluralism. My SSPX priest( a young priest) gave our parish a lecture/conference  against the New Mass a few weeks ago.  If the Society was going liberal, young priests would not continue to hold to Tradition

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #16 on: August 10, 2019, 09:20:51 AM »
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  • Here’s your answer

    He believes doctrinal questions must be resolved before any agreement is made. Similar to Fr. Gleize

    Fr. Albert doesn't explain how the doctrinal questions must be resolved. He seems to be saying that if the SSPX aren't required to accept Vatican ll and the New Mass, then they can reconcile.

    But that's not actually resolving doctrinal questions, rather it would be Rome tolerating or overlooking the SSPX preference for the Old Mass and traditional teachings of the Church. The Modernists would still be Modernists, with no interest in Tradition, but rather they will still be against it. That's not resolving anything.

    Archbishop Lefebvre maintained, after the episcopal consecrations in 1988, that he would not collaborate with the Modernists.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Augustinus21

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #17 on: August 10, 2019, 09:24:41 AM »
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  • Archbishop Lefebvre would:

    He refused to claim jurisdiction over the religious communities, saying he had no authority to do so.

    +Fellay, +de Galarreta, and Fr. Schmidberger (who all used to agree with that position), no longer believe this, because they want to trap/extort the allied (or once-allied) religious communities into their ralliement to unconverted Rome:

    Just one more betrayal of the Founder's principles.
    You’ll have to give me a quote from Lefebvre refusing jurisdiction. Since when does the man who ordains your priests not have jurisdiction over you? Avrille is a religious community, not a religious order. They have no right to claim that thry and they alone are the only real Dominicans on the face of the Earth. The Morgon Capuchins are doctrinally sound and much more balanced.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #18 on: August 10, 2019, 09:26:16 AM »
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  • Archbishop Lefebvre would:

    He refused to claim jurisdiction over the religious communities, saying he had no authority to do so.

    +Fellay, +de Galarreta, and Fr. Schmidberger (who all used to agree with that position), no longer believe this, because they want to trap/extort the allied (or once-allied) religious communities into their ralliement to unconverted Rome:

    Just one more betrayal of the Founder's principles.

    True.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #19 on: August 10, 2019, 09:31:27 AM »
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  • Yeah, funny. Come back to me after you’ve read what Fr. Gleize writes every month and tell me if he’s accepted doctrinal pluralism. My SSPX priest( a young priest) gave our parish a lecture/conference  against the New Mass a few weeks ago.  If the Society was going liberal, young priests would not continue to hold to Tradition

    Fr. Gleize can say whatever he wants against pluralism, but actions speak louder than words:

    A deal with unconverted Rome is the implicit acceptance of docrinal pluralism. 

    We will all be in legal unity, while believing completely contradictory doctrines (if in fact the SSPX still DOES believe completely contradictory doctrines, which is certainly open to question!).

    Faith comes second, if it matters at all.

    Bishop Fellay has said himself that the SSPX must learn to accept contradictory opinions on religious liberty, ecuмenism, and collegiality.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Augustinus21

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #20 on: August 10, 2019, 09:35:29 AM »
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  • Fr. Gleize can say whatever he wants against pluralism, but actions speak louder than words:

    A deal with unconverted Rome is the implicit acceptance of docrinal pluralism.

    We will all be in legal unity, while believing completely contradictory doctrines (if in fact the SSPX still DOES believe completely contradictory doctrines, which is certainly open to question!).

    Faith comes second, if it matters at all.

    Bishop Fellay has said himself that the SSPX must learn to accept contradictory opinions on religious liberty, ecuмenism, and collegiality.
    There has been no deal. Most Novus Ordo priests I’ve spoken to still see the Society as schismatic 

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #21 on: August 10, 2019, 09:36:29 AM »
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  • You’ll have to give me a quote from Lefebvre refusing jurisdiction. Since when does the man who ordains your priests not have jurisdiction over you? Avrille is a religious community, not a religious order. They have no right to claim that thry and they alone are the only real Dominicans on the face of the Earth. The Morgon Capuchins are doctrinally sound and much more balanced.
    Here is a quote of +Lefebvre refusing jurisdiction from the CCCC #87: 
    "#87: Contradiction (Interference in the Traditional Religious Orders):

    We have already seen in post #41, with the ultimatum issued to Dom Thomas Aquinas and the Benedictines of Santa Cruz Monastery in Brazil, that Bishop Fellay did not hesitate to illegitimately impose himself in the internal matters of the exempt religious orders (e.g., That Dom Thomas Aquinas present himself in front of the community and tender his resignation, or the monastery would be placed under interdict as regards ordinations, confirmations, etc).

    But this reprehensible conduct was not reserved for the Benedictines.  

    In 2013, Bishop de Gallareta "authorized" a new "Dominican" foundation in Steffeshausen, Belgium comprised of fugitive apostates from Avrille, without any consultation and against the explicit refusal of the legitimate Dominican superiors, and placing himself as their superior!
    http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/steffeshausen_foundation.pdf

    But it was not the first act of interference on the part of Menzingen in the affairs of Avrille.  

    As the Steffeshausen Memorandum recounts, Bishop Fellay and Bishop de Galarreta had been interfering for several years prior, going so far as to exclaustrate one Friar, without the permission, and against the explicit wishes, of his superiors (while violating canon law in permitting him to retain the habit, and for a period of 15 years!).

    There are many additional examples of illegitimate and scandalous interference in the internal affairs of Avrille by Menzingen recounted in the Steffeshausen Memorandum (which for the sake of brevity, I will not recount here, but which you can read in the attached docuмent, or by clicking on the link above). 

    Even the American Tertiaries were not exempt from SSPX interference, as Fr. Jurgen Wegner (then, new SSPX US District Superior) sent a letter to them all, notifying them of Avrille's break with the SSPX, and the new illegitimate foundation of "Dominicans," suggesting they jump ship and join on with Steffeshausen.
    https://ghyheart.wordpress.com/tag/fr-jurgen-wegner/

    What was the end of all this interference?

    It was the same in Avrille as it was in Santa Cruz:

    "This foundation, made on dishonesty and disobedience, is a violation of religious law.  But above all, in the current context, it is a maneuver by Menzingen to weaken the Avrillé community and to have a nice, happy community of Menzingen Dominicans, who neither bark nor bite."
    http://www.dominicansavrille.us/tag/bishop-de-galarreta/

    Obviously, this illegitimate band of apostates (Avrille's description) and usurpers (Bishop Fellay and Bishop de Gallareta) was not blessed by God, and the group soon disbanded.

    But the biggest scandal here is the raw and fraudulent arrogation of jurisdiction Menzingen is trying to exercise over the religious (and all for the aim just stated).  It provides a rather sharp contrast to Archbishop Lefebvre's approach and counsel regarding the religious orders, as described in 1991 by Superior General, Fr. Franz Schmidberger:

    "The attitude of these two bishops in this affair is very different from Archbishop Lefebvre's attitude vis-a-vis religious, recalled by Fr. Schmidberger in a letter dated 27 May 1991 addressed to the traditional monasteries and convents, where he recognized that Archbishop Lefebvre 'was more of a father, counselor, and friend than an authority in the juridical sense:'

    The current situation in Rome, which has lasted for twenty years, and the local ordinaries prevent us, as you know, from having recourse to diocesan or Roman ecclesiastical authority, for everything concerning religious vows, community life, etc.

    This is why these past years many of you have had frequent recourse to Archbishop Lefebvre as a substitute authority.  Truth be told, he was more of a father, counselor, and friend than an authority in the juridical sense.

    After his death, the General Council of the Society of St. Pius X asked Bishop Fellay to fill this role from now on, according to the intention expressed by our founder during his life.

    It is in a spirit of service that Bishop Fellay will exercise this office, not so much as a member of the Society of St. Pius X, but as a Catholic bishop.  Each community is absolutely free to speak to him or not.  Neither he, nor the Society has the least intention of taking control of the other communities in any way. His actions must always be seen as the exercise of an extraordinary jurisdiction, and not ordinary, until the day when, in the Church, things return to normal.  Allow me on the occasion of this letter to express our ardent desire of maintaining with you ties of profound friendship that have united us for so many years."
    http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/steffeshausen_foundation.pdf (See pp. 5-6)

    The approach of Menzingen toward the religious communities this last decade (and longer) is in total contradiction to that of Archbishop Lefebvre, and as Avrille adduced, all to sell them down the river to modernist Rome.

     steffeshausen_foundation.pdf (1692.67 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
     Fr. Jurgen Wegner _ Give Him Your Heart.pdf (4014.17 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
     Bishop de Galarreta Archives - Dominicans of Avrille, France.pdf (1936.35 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #22 on: August 10, 2019, 09:39:09 AM »
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  • There has been no deal. Most Novus Ordo priests I’ve spoken to still see the Society as schismatic

    The SSPX is 95% "regularized."

    What "most Novus Ordo priests" think is irrelavent.  

    Pretending the SSPX is a threat to perpetuate the illusion of their traditionalism is only to facilitate the sellout (and an artifice to deceive the SSPX faithful: "Oh, the liberals hate us = we are still traditional).  But did you notice that practically every conciliar bishop is helping the SSPX into the fold?  

    Telling, however, that you (a militant SSPXer) admit to speaking with numerous Novus Ordo priests.

    Myself, as an old-SSPXer, don't have anything to do with a single one of them.

    See the difference?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #23 on: August 10, 2019, 09:46:04 AM »
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  • Here's another selection from the CCCC quoting Archbishop Lefebvre as declaring he had no jurisdiction over the exempt religious communities (see bolded quote):

    #41: Change (The Expulsion of Bishop Williamson - Part II):

    In the previous post, we saw that one of the two main reasons adduced as justification for the expulsion of Bishop Williamson from the SSPX was the bishop's "unauthorized" pastoral visit to Dom Thomas Aquinas's Holy Cross Monastery to offer confirmations to the faithful attached thereto.

    But what was the historical context within which this pastoral visit transpired?

    Why were the General House and the South American District so enraged?

    One familiar with the strained relationship between Dom Thomas Aquinas and Menzingen between 2000 - 2012 will know the answer, and this succinct description by the Dominicans of Avrille tells the reader all he needs to know:

    "When Benedict XVI issued his Motu Proprio on the “extraordinary rite”, Father Thomas Aquinas refused to sing the Te Deum at Sunday Mass, as asked by Bishop Fellay to greet the papal docuмent.  Furthermore, on the occasion of the alleged lifting of the alleged excommunications, Father Thomas Aquinas wrote a letter to Bishop Fellay in which he announced that he would not obey if an agreement with conciliar Rome took place.  Soon after, Bishop de Galarreta and Father Bouchacourt came to the monastery to tell Father Thomas Aquinas that he had fifteen days to leave Santa Cruz, otherwise the monastery would no longer receive any help or sacraments from the SSPX.  With Bishop Williamson’s spiritual assistance, Father Thomas Aquinas was able to stay at the monastery.  On 8 September 2012, he wrote: 'Unity must be based on the truth, that is to say on the Catholic Faith; and the words and attitudes of Bishop Fellay are unfortunately not those of a disciple of Archbishop Lefebvre who defended the truth without compromise...'"
    http://www.dominicansavrille.us/presentation-of-bishop-dom-thomas-aquinas-o-s-b-part-2/#easy-footnote-bottom-1

    And there it is: Bishop Fellay was trying to spiritually starve and extort the Benedictines into compromise, while Bishop Williamson was charitably subverting Bishop Fellay's punitive coercion and helping the Benedictines to stay faithful to Archbishop Lefebvre.

    This is the true cause of the punitive expulsion of Bishop Williamson: He kept subverting Bishop Fellay's sellout.

    But what jurisdiction did Bishop Fellay and the SSPX have over the exempt religious orders?

    None!

    Had not Archbishop Lefebvre written to Dom Thomas Aquinas that, "You must revere and consult the bishops of the SSPX, but they do not have jurisdiction over you because, as Prior of the Monastery, you must have autonomy."
    http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/2016/02/quien-es-dom-tomas-de-aquino-ferreira.html#more

    Note also that, in the Communique released shortly after Bishop Williamson's visit by Fr. Bouchacourt (then South American District Superior), he implies that Bishop Williamson's visit was not necessary, since "for many months" the SSPX had already planned to perform confirmations in Brazil (and by implication, also for Dom Thomas Aquinas).
    http://archives.sspx.org/sspx_and_rome/fr_christian_bouchacourt_8-6-2012_communique.htm

    However, that implication is not consistent with Bishop Fellay's earlier declaration to Dom Thomas Aquinas that, unless he resigned, the monastery would no longer receive financial or spiritual assistance.  Nor would it have made any sense for Bishop Williamson to have gone to Brazil in the first place, if confirmations for Santa Cruz were already scheduled (i.e., Dom Thomas would not have needed him.  What would be the point?).
    Non Possumus_ QUIÉN ES DOM TOMÁS DE AQUINO FERREIRA DA COSTA, NUESTRO NUEVO OBISPO_ UN TESTIMONIO.pdf (2750.52 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
    Fr Bouchacourt communique concerning Bishop Williamsons visit to Brazil 9-11-2012.pdf (186.98 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
    Presentation of Bishop Dom Thomas Aquinas O.S.B. (Part 2) - Dominicans of Avrille, France.pdf (1425.79 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Augustinus21

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #24 on: August 10, 2019, 09:47:31 AM »
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  • The SSPX is 95% "regularized."

    What "most Novus Ordo priests" think is irrelavent.  

    Pretending the SSPX is a threat to perpetuate the illusion of their traditionalism is only to facilitate the sellout (and an artifice to deceive the SSPX faithful: "Oh, the liberals hate us = we are still traditional).  But did you notice that practically every conciliar bishop is helping the SSPX into the fold?  

    Telling, however, that you (a militant SSPXer) admit to speaking with numerous Novus Ordo priests.

    Myself, as an old-SSPXer, don't have anything to do with a single one of them.

    See the difference?
    There’s no harm in talking to someone. Leaving Rome alone will do nothing if we wish to convert them. I guess by your logic I shouldn’t talk to Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Atheists, etc because they might corrupt me. No need to evangelize them. When I speak with New Order priests the discussion usually turns into a vigorous argument. I’m not learning from them

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #25 on: August 10, 2019, 09:50:06 AM »
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  • Beautiful post Mr. G and even a nice assist from Megster!

    Poor Father Albert. He carries a heavy burden of betraying his Dominican fratres.

    Let's pray for him, that he finds his way and returns to the Dominicans of Avrille' like the prodigal son.

    The Dominicans are charged with protecting and preaching Our Lady's Psalter.

    According to Sister Lucy (I), Our Lady advised that the Rosary is one of the two key means of salvation,
    (at this end of the 5th Age of the Church).



    Therefore, what an honor it is to be a Dominican!

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #26 on: August 10, 2019, 09:55:28 AM »
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  • There’s no harm in talking to someone. Leaving Rome alone will do nothing if we wish to convert them. I guess by your logic I shouldn’t talk to Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Atheists, etc because they might corrupt me. No need to evangelize them. When I speak with New Order priests the discussion usually turns into a vigorous argument. I’m not learning from them
    As you can see from the effect of the decades-long ralliement on the SSPX, there is PLENTY of harm in "talking with someone."


    "Fideliter - Some of the faithful are tempted to keep good relations with those who have rallied, or even attend the Mass or ceremonies that they celebrate, do you think that there is a danger in that?
    Archbishop Lefebvre - I have always warned the faithful, the sedevacantists, for example. There also people say: “The Mass is fine, so we go to it.”
    Yes, there is the Mass. That’s fine, but there is also the sermon; there is the atmosphere, the conversations, contacts before and after, which make you little by little change your ideas. It is therefore a danger and that’s why in general, I think it constitutes part of a whole. One does not merely go to Mass, one frequents a milieu.
    There are obviously some people who are attracted by the beautiful ceremonies, who also go to Fontgombault, where they have taken up the old mass again. They are in a climate of ambiguity which to my mind is dangerous. Once one finds oneself in this atmosphere, submitted to the Vatican, subject ultimately to the Council, one ends up by becoming ecuмenical."

    Same thing for conversations with conciliar clergy:

    First you get to be friendly, then you start to see things from their perspective, then you drop your condemnations, then you shift in their direction.

    This has been the process of every capitulation since V2.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #27 on: August 10, 2019, 09:58:26 AM »
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  • Even MORE regarding ABL on the lack of jurisdiction over the EXEMPT religious congregations allied with Tradition:

    #93: Change (Extorting Holy Orders for Loyalty?):

    In late June, 2012 three Dominican subdeacons from Avrille, France and three Deacons from the Capuchins of Morgon were among those on retreat, preparing for their forthcoming ordinations to the diaconate and priesthood six days hence (on June 29).  Abruptly, they were extracted from among their colleagues, and sent back to their respective monasteries, and told they would no longer be ordained.

    What had happened?  Had someone come forward regarding impediments to the reception of further major orders?  Had their seminary professors second-guessed their former favorable appraisals of the candidates' academic or moral fitness?  

    On the contrary: 

    According to what has become known as the Steffeshausen Memorandum, Avrille provides some context to the June 25 letter of the General House in which the postponement of ordinations is announced:

    "In the afternoon of 21 June 2012, the Secretary General of the SSPX called the Father Prior of Avrille.  After having reproached him for playing in the refectory a sermon of a prior of the SSPX who was hostile to the agreement with Rome, he added, 'Father, if we sign an agreement with Rome, will you follow us?'  Father Prior, a little surprised, explained to him that if there were an agreement with Rome, it would be on the basis of the Doctrinal Declaration that Bishop Fellay had sent to Rome in April and that we had not yet even seen.  'Indeed, you are not familiar with this text, but I cannot tell you about it.  You must trust us.' 

    Father Prior asked him for two days to reflect on the matter, which he obtained with difficulty.

    The next day on June 22, at 9:26 AM, without waiting for the two days to pass, we received a fax from Bishop Fellay, followed by an email from the Secretary General, informing us of the refusal to ordain to the diaconate the three brothers who were to be ordained at Econe on 29 June.  Bishop Fellay wrote in his fax: 

    'Confidence in the Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X has been shaken in your friary; therefore, I think it is necessary to postpone the ordination of the candidates you have presented for the ceremony to be held 29 June next, at Econe...We will wait until confidence has been restored; this will be better for everyone!'

    Fr. Thouvenot wrote in his email:

    'I did my best to relate to Bishop Fellay the conversation we had yesterday, but obviously the simple fact that you had your community listen to Fr. Koller's crazy sermon, as well as the fact that you needed more than 24 hours to respond to a simple question of trust in his authority, are enough to convince him that he needs to postpone the ordinations.  This morning he forwarded a fax to you informing you of it.  In the hope that you will fall into line and reestablish normal relations of harmonious collaboration, I assure you of my religious devotion.'"
    http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/steffeshausen_foundation.pdf (See pp. 7-8.)

    A circular letter from the general House to SSPX priests et al by Fr. Christian Thouvenot explained the reason for cancelling the ordinations:

    "Finally, Bp. Fellay has decided to postpone the ordinations of the Dominicans of Avrillé and Capuchins of Morgon that were to take place in Écône on June 29. This postponement of Holy Orders was motivated simply by the wish to ensure the loyalty of these communities before the imposition of hands on their candidates (cf. I Tim. 5, 22)."
    https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/06/for-record-confidentiality-like-water.html

    Note that the scriptural citation adduced as a justification for the postponement of ordination is neither here nor there: The moral and intellectual fitness for the reception of Holy Orders which this passage pertains to had long since been ascertained by the superiors of the various candidates.  In fact, the stated justification of ensuring loyalty of the respective communities to Menzingen follows nearly as a non-sequitur.

    But were not these communities independent and exempt from the jurisdiction of the SSPX bishops?  How then could the loyalty of their independent and exempt communities be adduced as grounds for withholding ordinations, when Archbishop Lefebvre had stated on 4/27/81 that he did not want to be Master General of the Dominicans, whereas in October/2012 at the Benedictine monastery at Bellaigue, Bishop de Galarreta informed Father Prior that he must consider Bishop Fellay as taking the place of the Master General of the Order?
    (Ibid., p.9)

    This illegitimate arrogation of "authority" represented a raw and unjust departure from the position of Archbishop Lefebvre with regard to the religious communities.

    Moreover, to withhold ordination on the basis of these communities' fidelity to the Church and Tradition, and refusing to go along with Bishop Fellay's revolution and sellout is objectively an indefensible abuse of the episcopacy, in the case where the ordinands are all adjudged to be perfectly fit candidates for major orders.  

    Consequently, the postponement tactic of Bishop Fellay was nothing more than coercion or spiritual blackmail, having nothing to do with the fitness of the candidates, whatever pretext Bishop Fellay may have tried to create with the reference to I Tim. 5, 22.

    PS: It would not be the last time Bishop Fellay would abuse his authority in this manner.  In 2016, the Capuchins had recently published a book explaining why a deal with unconverted Rome was not acceptable.  Soon thereafter, they sided with the 7 French Deans, who wrote a letter of opposition to the SSPX's acceptance of the 2017 "Pastoral guidelines" subjecting SSPx marriages to conciliar authority.  Consequently, Bishop Fellay reverted to his extortion tactics, threatening for a 2nd time to withhold ordinations from Morgon.  You can read about that incident here: https://tradidi.com/menzingen-refuses-to-ordain-the-capuchins-deacons
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #28 on: August 10, 2019, 10:05:10 AM »
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  • There’s no harm in talking to someone. Leaving Rome alone will do nothing if we wish to convert them. I guess by your logic I shouldn’t talk to Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Atheists, etc because they might corrupt me. No need to evangelize them. When I speak with New Order priests the discussion usually turns into a vigorous argument. I’m not learning from them

    I know that the above post was directed to Sean, but I'd like to briefly comment.

    Sometimes there is no harm in talking to someone. And yes, if we leave Rome alone, they may not be converted. However, it seems that the SSPX is not trying to convert Modernist Rome; rather, the SSPX wants concessions without Rome's conversion. There was a time when +ABL too though that this might be a good idea, but not in the late 1980's. He gave up on that idea. He said that Modernism is like a disease. How many former Modernists do you hear about, who have repented of their Modernist ways?

    I too talk to priests in the conciliar church - which sometimes turns into an argument. Sometimes it has a good outcome. Sometimes not.

    The SSPX doesn't seem interested anymore in converting Modernist Rome. They seldom criticize, in any meaningful way, the terrible actions and words of Pope Francis. That's a big problem for some of us.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
    « Reply #29 on: August 10, 2019, 06:22:45 PM »
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  • I heard Fr Albert has been trying to retire to OLG Silver City but things are caught up in immigration. Heard from Fr Dominic May, who is presently in Missouri, but a native Albertan like bearself. 
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster