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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Augustinus21 on August 09, 2019, 11:33:23 AM

Title: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 09, 2019, 11:33:23 AM
Fr. Albert O.P was recently asked whether one could attend a “reverent” N.O Mass. here’s his response
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpGqNcaPOmg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpGqNcaPOmg)
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Incredulous on August 09, 2019, 02:00:53 PM


Okay, let's ask Father Albert some more questions ?  :-\

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-qomDmUn5xYA%2FVEr6Q9_oN8I%2FAAAAAAAAKBU%2FArzDwahIC3U%2Fs1600%2FTraditional%252BDominican%252BFriars%252Bof%252BSteffeshausen.jpg&f=1)

1. Why did you hang-out at Silver City & SSPX chapels for years and then go AWOL from your Dominican order?

2. Why did you assist in hijacking novices from the Dominicans of Avrille'?

3. Why did the SSPX's illicit, fake order of Dominicans in Steffeshausen fail?

4. What are you doing suddenly at the Fatima Center?

5. Do you receive an income from the SSPX?

Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 09, 2019, 02:08:47 PM

Okay, let's ask Father Albert some more questions ?  :-\

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-qomDmUn5xYA%2FVEr6Q9_oN8I%2FAAAAAAAAKBU%2FArzDwahIC3U%2Fs1600%2FTraditional%252BDominican%252BFriars%252Bof%252BSteffeshausen.jpg&f=1)

1. Why did you hang-out at Silver City & SSPX chapels for years and then go AWOL from your Dominican order?

2. Why did you assist in hijacking novices from the Dominicans of Avrille'?

3. Why did the SSPX's illicit, fake order of Dominicans in Steffeshausen fail?

4. What are you doing suddenly at the Fatima Center?

5. Do you receive an income from the SSPX?
None of that has anything to do with the topic. The founder of the Avrille Dominicans was ordained by ABL, so it’s not like the SSPX didn’t start their group as well.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Incredulous on August 09, 2019, 04:56:44 PM

It has everything to do with the topic.

Fr. Albert is an AWOL Dominican of Avrille' who had no authority especially from the SSPX, to head a new offshoot Dominican order.

Is he now a freelance vagus?  Who is he incardinated to and why?

You're trying to sell him to us.

We every right to know what his business is now.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 09, 2019, 05:09:03 PM
It has everything to do with the topic.

Fr. Albert is an AWOL Dominican of Avrille' who had no authority especially from the SSPX, to head a new offshoot Dominican order.

Is he now a freelance vagus?  Who is he incardinated to and why?

You're trying to sell him to us.

We every right to know what his business is now.
I know him personally. He’s with the Society. Again, the SSPX started Avrille so if Avrille is legitimate, then any other group the Society starts is legitimate
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: SeanJohnson on August 09, 2019, 06:55:51 PM
I know him personally. He’s with the Society. Again, the SSPX started Avrille so if Avrille is legitimate, then any other group the Society starts is legitimate

In which case, you would agree that if Avrille poached 5-6 priests from the SSPX, created a new congregation for them, and had them report to Avrille, that would be just fine?
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Incredulous on August 09, 2019, 07:15:55 PM
I know him personally. He’s with the Society. Again, the SSPX started Avrille so if Avrille is legitimate, then any other group the Society starts is legitimate


If Fr. Albert is now SSPX, shouldn't he identify himself so?
He's still wearing his Old Dominican habit.

He's obviously doing 3rd party propaganda work for Menzingen.

And under what authority does the SSPX make new branches of religious orders? 

Pope Francis?   :facepalm:

Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Mr G on August 10, 2019, 06:31:05 AM
http://www.dominicansavrille.us/tag/fr-albert/

Response to an article on the SSPX-USA website
An article called “A New Dominican Community (http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/new-dominican-community-5298)” was published on October 24, 2014 on the SSPX USA web site1 (http://www.dominicansavrille.us/tag/fr-albert/#sdfootnote1sym).  Here are the principle passages with some added commentary.

It is interesting to note that on 24 October, the same day this article appeared, two Dominican Fathers from Avrillé arrived in the United States for a 15 day stay to visit the Dominican Tertiaries attached to the Avrillé friary. Two days later on 26 October, the SSPX District Superior of the United States. Fr. Wegner, sent a letter to all his priests and to all the Avrillé Tertiaries living in the United States, warning them against the Avrillé friary and asking the Avrillé Tertiaries to join the Steffeshausen Third Order.

In his turn, on 31 October, Fr. Albert sent a letter to the Avrillé Tertiaries living in the United States, warning them against the Avrillé friary and asking the same Tertiaries to join his Third Order.
The Avrillé Dominican Fathers

Start of the article appearing on the SSPX-USA web site:
A New Dominican Community
(http://www.dominicansavrille.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/img_54a6a70911e54.png)
Quote
“Find out about a new traditional religious community, the Dominican Friars of Steffeshausen, Belgium, and see how you can help them… or even join the Third Order of St. Dominic.
A video (http://sspx.org/en/media/video/new-dominican-community-third-order-5297)  (http://www.dominicansavrille.us/tag/fr-albert/#sdfootnote2sym)has just been posted about a new foundation of traditional Dominican friars in Belgium and the Third Order that they are offering to the faithful.
This new community of traditional Dominican friars was founded on November 15, 2013 in Steffeshausen, a little village in the southeast corner of Belgium. They were invited there by the villagers after the death of their parish priest, who had kept the traditional Mass and was persecuted by his bishop some 25 years ago.
They offered the church and rectory built by this priest to these friars as a first home for their fledgling community.”
Our Commentary: The Steffeshausen house was not offered to these four priests, but to the Avrillé Dominicans.  Here are the facts:
On 26 January 2013, during a meeting in Suresnes, in the presence of Fr. de Cacqueray [then District Superior of France], Bishop Fellay asked the Avrillé Dominicans to bring together five “vagus” Dominicans (all perpetually professed to the Avrillé friary) in a house which would be under the jurisdiction of Avrillé. That day, Bishop Fellay promised to support that foundation with his authority and to tell the religious who would refuse to submit that they must remove the habit or they would no longer be recognized as Dominicans by the Society of St. Pius X.

The Avrillé Dominicans accepted this decision. A committee of lay people who were taking care of the house of Steffeshausen contacted the Avrillé Dominicans early February 2013 offering to hand over this house, so the fathers proposed to Bishop Fellay that the foundation be made there. The bishop accepted, and contacted the five religious to offer to install them in this house.
However, in June 2013, Bishop de Galarreta told Avrillé that it was he who would take this foundation under his authority. When the fathers told him that Bishop Fellay had promised that the foundation would be instituted under the authority of Avrillé, Bishop de Galarreta answered, “Bishop Fellay considers himself to be relieved of his promise.” He declined to comment further and referred to Bishop Fellay. Father Prior of Avrillé then wrote three letters to Bishop Fellay on 14 July, 26 July and 11 August 2013 (the last of which was personally delivered by Fr. de Cacqueray) asking for explanations— he has never received a response.

The SSPX article continues:
Quote
“Bishop Alfonso de Galarreta, who assists those religious communities affiliated with the SSPX, accepted to help the foundation as its ecclesiastical superior. You can help the Dominicans by making a donation . . . On their behalf, thank you very much for your support!”
(End of the text from the web site of the SSPX-USA.)


Our Commentary: The Dominican Order, which is an exempt Order, has never been put under the jurisdiction of a bishop.

What’s more, being a bishop without jurisdiction, Bishop de Galaretta’s action of removing the five religious from their legitimate superior, without that superior’s agreement, is an illegitimate act and indicates a schismatic mentality by attributing to the bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre a jurisdiction they do not have and which Archbishop Lefebvre never wanted to give to them because he himself did not have it, as he so often said.

In the video presented with this article, Fr. Albert recounts his history and very rapidly skims over the 19 years of his life that he spent with “some traditional Dominicans in France,” omitting to say that he was a part of the Avrillé community, that he studied there, that he received all his ecclesiastical orders from as a member of this community and that he made a vow of perpetual obedience between the hands of the prior of Avrillé. He also forgets to tell that he was sent to the United States in 2006 by his superiors in Avrillé, on the recommendation of Bishop Fellay, and that afterwards he refused to return to the Avrillé friary where his superiors still wait for him. He also keeps quiet about the situation of the four other religious, all perpetually professed to Avrillé, of whom three left the friary in the middle of the night of 11-12 April 2011 with the complicity of the German SSPX District Superior, Fr. Franz Schmidberger. There are many lapses of memory and much silence in the telling of this tale.

This foundation, made on dishonesty and disobedience, is a violation of religious law.
But above all, in the current context, it is a maneuver by Menzingen to weaken the Avrillé community and to have a nice, happy community of Menzingen Dominicans, who neither bark nor bite.

1 (http://www.dominicansavrille.us/tag/fr-albert/#sdfootnote1anc) — http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/new-dominican-community-5298.
2 (http://www.dominicansavrille.us/tag/fr-albert/#sdfootnote2anc) — http://sspx.org/en/media/video/new-dominican-community-third-order-5297.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: homeschoolmom on August 10, 2019, 07:52:02 AM

A Dominican without bark or bite is no Dominican at all.  :)


Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Meg on August 10, 2019, 08:46:03 AM
Fr. Albert O.P was recently asked whether one could attend a “reverent” N.O Mass. here’s his response
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpGqNcaPOmg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpGqNcaPOmg)

There are a few things that I would agree with in the video. He's right about the Mass being a sacrifice, which the New Mass doesn't convey. It seems that Fr. Albert does not intend to thoroughly explain the problems with the New Mass, but rather he touches on several the reasons why it's a problem. However, it would have been helpful for him to further explain why it's a big problem that the New Mass is considered to be a "meal." My understanding is that only the priest is required to receive the Body and Precious Blood of Our Lord during Mass. This is required for the Mass to be valid. No one else is required to receive, and that's the main reason why it cannot be considered to be a communal meal. The laity are not required to receive, but of course they can receive if they are in a state of grace with no impediments.

I also have to wonder what Fr. Albert's views are in relation to the SSPX reconciliation with Rome. Is he fine with the current SSPX trajectory towards a reconciliation with Rome?
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 09:09:41 AM
There are a few things that I would agree with in the video. He's right about the Mass being a sacrifice, which the New Mass doesn't convey. It seems that Fr. Albert does not intend to thoroughly explain the problems with the New Mass, but rather he touches on several the reasons why it's a problem. However, it would have been helpful for him to further explain why it's a big problem that the New Mass is considered to be a "meal." My understanding is that only the priest is required to receive the Body and Precious Blood of Our Lord during Mass. This is required for the Mass to be valid. No one else is required to receive, and that's the main reason why it cannot be considered to be a communal meal. The laity are not required to receive, but of course they can receive if they are in a state of grace with no impediments.

I also have to wonder what Fr. Albert's views are in relation to the SSPX reconciliation with Rome. Is he fine with the current SSPX trajectory towards a reconciliation with Rome?
Here’s your answer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11NcXdacM18 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11NcXdacM18)
He believes doctrinal questions must be resolved before any agreement is made. Similar to Fr. Gleize
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 09:11:17 AM
A Dominican without bark or bite is no Dominican at all.  :)
Wellrom his videos it’s clear Fr. Albert doesn’t fall under that label. He’s calm but straightforward 
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: SeanJohnson on August 10, 2019, 09:11:29 AM
Here’s your answer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11NcXdacM18 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11NcXdacM18)
He believes doctrinal questions must be resolved before any agreement is made. Similar to Fr. Gleize

Lip service to doctrine:

The SSPX is already 95% "regularized," and there is no conversion of Rome.

The SSPX has accepted doctrinal pluralism, and Fr. Albert is rolling along with them right into it.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 09:13:22 AM
In which case, you would agree that if Avrille poached 5-6 priests from the SSPX, created a new congregation for them, and had them report to Avrille, that would be just fine?
If priests from the SSPX decided to leave and join Avrille, I might not agree with their decision but I certainly wouldn’t call it illicit 
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: SeanJohnson on August 10, 2019, 09:16:29 AM
If priests from the SSPX decided to leave and join Avrille, I might not agree with their decision but I certainly wouldn’t call it illicit

Archbishop Lefebvre would:

He refused to claim jurisdiction over the religious communities, saying he had no authority to do so.

+Fellay, +de Galarreta, and Fr. Schmidberger (who all used to agree with that position), no longer believe this, because they want to trap/extort the allied (or once-allied) religious communities into their ralliement to unconverted Rome:

Just one more betrayal of the Founder's principles.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 09:19:11 AM
Lip service to doctrine:

The SSPX is already 95% "regularized," and there is no conversion of Rome.

The SSPX has accepted doctrinal pluralism, and Fr. Albert is rolling along with them right into it.
Yeah, funny. Come back to me after you’ve read what Fr. Gleize writes every month and tell me if he’s accepted doctrinal pluralism. My SSPX priest( a young priest) gave our parish a lecture/conference  against the New Mass a few weeks ago.  If the Society was going liberal, young priests would not continue to hold to Tradition
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Meg on August 10, 2019, 09:20:51 AM
Here’s your answer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11NcXdacM18 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11NcXdacM18)
He believes doctrinal questions must be resolved before any agreement is made. Similar to Fr. Gleize

Fr. Albert doesn't explain how the doctrinal questions must be resolved. He seems to be saying that if the SSPX aren't required to accept Vatican ll and the New Mass, then they can reconcile.

But that's not actually resolving doctrinal questions, rather it would be Rome tolerating or overlooking the SSPX preference for the Old Mass and traditional teachings of the Church. The Modernists would still be Modernists, with no interest in Tradition, but rather they will still be against it. That's not resolving anything.

Archbishop Lefebvre maintained, after the episcopal consecrations in 1988, that he would not collaborate with the Modernists.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 09:24:41 AM
Archbishop Lefebvre would:

He refused to claim jurisdiction over the religious communities, saying he had no authority to do so.

+Fellay, +de Galarreta, and Fr. Schmidberger (who all used to agree with that position), no longer believe this, because they want to trap/extort the allied (or once-allied) religious communities into their ralliement to unconverted Rome:

Just one more betrayal of the Founder's principles.
You’ll have to give me a quote from Lefebvre refusing jurisdiction. Since when does the man who ordains your priests not have jurisdiction over you? Avrille is a religious community, not a religious order. They have no right to claim that thry and they alone are the only real Dominicans on the face of the Earth. The Morgon Capuchins are doctrinally sound and much more balanced.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Meg on August 10, 2019, 09:26:16 AM
Archbishop Lefebvre would:

He refused to claim jurisdiction over the religious communities, saying he had no authority to do so.

+Fellay, +de Galarreta, and Fr. Schmidberger (who all used to agree with that position), no longer believe this, because they want to trap/extort the allied (or once-allied) religious communities into their ralliement to unconverted Rome:

Just one more betrayal of the Founder's principles.

True.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: SeanJohnson on August 10, 2019, 09:31:27 AM
Yeah, funny. Come back to me after you’ve read what Fr. Gleize writes every month and tell me if he’s accepted doctrinal pluralism. My SSPX priest( a young priest) gave our parish a lecture/conference  against the New Mass a few weeks ago.  If the Society was going liberal, young priests would not continue to hold to Tradition

Fr. Gleize can say whatever he wants against pluralism, but actions speak louder than words:

A deal with unconverted Rome is the implicit acceptance of docrinal pluralism. 

We will all be in legal unity, while believing completely contradictory doctrines (if in fact the SSPX still DOES believe completely contradictory doctrines, which is certainly open to question!).

Faith comes second, if it matters at all.

Bishop Fellay has said himself that the SSPX must learn to accept contradictory opinions on religious liberty, ecuмenism, and collegiality.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 09:35:29 AM
Fr. Gleize can say whatever he wants against pluralism, but actions speak louder than words:

A deal with unconverted Rome is the implicit acceptance of docrinal pluralism.

We will all be in legal unity, while believing completely contradictory doctrines (if in fact the SSPX still DOES believe completely contradictory doctrines, which is certainly open to question!).

Faith comes second, if it matters at all.

Bishop Fellay has said himself that the SSPX must learn to accept contradictory opinions on religious liberty, ecuмenism, and collegiality.
There has been no deal. Most Novus Ordo priests I’ve spoken to still see the Society as schismatic 
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: SeanJohnson on August 10, 2019, 09:36:29 AM
You’ll have to give me a quote from Lefebvre refusing jurisdiction. Since when does the man who ordains your priests not have jurisdiction over you? Avrille is a religious community, not a religious order. They have no right to claim that thry and they alone are the only real Dominicans on the face of the Earth. The Morgon Capuchins are doctrinally sound and much more balanced.
Here is a quote of +Lefebvre refusing jurisdiction from the CCCC #87: 
"#87: Contradiction (Interference in the Traditional Religious Orders):

We have already seen in post #41, with the ultimatum issued to Dom Thomas Aquinas and the Benedictines of Santa Cruz Monastery in Brazil, that Bishop Fellay did not hesitate to illegitimately impose himself in the internal matters of the exempt religious orders (e.g., That Dom Thomas Aquinas present himself in front of the community and tender his resignation, or the monastery would be placed under interdict as regards ordinations, confirmations, etc).

But this reprehensible conduct was not reserved for the Benedictines.  

In 2013, Bishop de Gallareta "authorized" a new "Dominican" foundation in Steffeshausen, Belgium comprised of fugitive apostates from Avrille, without any consultation and against the explicit refusal of the legitimate Dominican superiors, and placing himself as their superior!
http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/steffeshausen_foundation.pdf (http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/steffeshausen_foundation.pdf)

But it was not the first act of interference on the part of Menzingen in the affairs of Avrille.  

As the Steffeshausen Memorandum recounts, Bishop Fellay and Bishop de Galarreta had been interfering for several years prior, going so far as to exclaustrate one Friar, without the permission, and against the explicit wishes, of his superiors (while violating canon law in permitting him to retain the habit, and for a period of 15 years!).

There are many additional examples of illegitimate and scandalous interference in the internal affairs of Avrille by Menzingen recounted in the Steffeshausen Memorandum (which for the sake of brevity, I will not recount here, but which you can read in the attached docuмent, or by clicking on the link above). 

Even the American Tertiaries were not exempt from SSPX interference, as Fr. Jurgen Wegner (then, new SSPX US District Superior) sent a letter to them all, notifying them of Avrille's break with the SSPX, and the new illegitimate foundation of "Dominicans," suggesting they jump ship and join on with Steffeshausen.
https://ghyheart.wordpress.com/tag/fr-jurgen-wegner/ (https://ghyheart.wordpress.com/tag/fr-jurgen-wegner/)

What was the end of all this interference?

It was the same in Avrille as it was in Santa Cruz:

"This foundation, made on dishonesty and disobedience, is a violation of religious law.  But above all, in the current context, it is a maneuver by Menzingen to weaken the Avrillé community and to have a nice, happy community of Menzingen Dominicans, who neither bark nor bite."
http://www.dominicansavrille.us/tag/bishop-de-galarreta/ (http://www.dominicansavrille.us/tag/bishop-de-galarreta/)

Obviously, this illegitimate band of apostates (Avrille's description) and usurpers (Bishop Fellay and Bishop de Gallareta) was not blessed by God, and the group soon disbanded.

But the biggest scandal here is the raw and fraudulent arrogation of jurisdiction Menzingen is trying to exercise over the religious (and all for the aim just stated).  It provides a rather sharp contrast to Archbishop Lefebvre's approach and counsel regarding the religious orders, as described in 1991 by Superior General, Fr. Franz Schmidberger:

"The attitude of these two bishops in this affair is very different from Archbishop Lefebvre's attitude vis-a-vis religious, recalled by Fr. Schmidberger in a letter dated 27 May 1991 addressed to the traditional monasteries and convents, where he recognized that Archbishop Lefebvre 'was more of a father, counselor, and friend than an authority in the juridical sense:'

The current situation in Rome, which has lasted for twenty years, and the local ordinaries prevent us, as you know, from having recourse to diocesan or Roman ecclesiastical authority, for everything concerning religious vows, community life, etc.

This is why these past years many of you have had frequent recourse to Archbishop Lefebvre as a substitute authority.  Truth be told, he was more of a father, counselor, and friend than an authority in the juridical sense.

After his death, the General Council of the Society of St. Pius X asked Bishop Fellay to fill this role from now on, according to the intention expressed by our founder during his life.

It is in a spirit of service that Bishop Fellay will exercise this office, not so much as a member of the Society of St. Pius X, but as a Catholic bishop.  Each community is absolutely free to speak to him or not.  Neither he, nor the Society has the least intention of taking control of the other communities in any way. His actions must always be seen as the exercise of an extraordinary jurisdiction, and not ordinary, until the day when, in the Church, things return to normal.  Allow me on the occasion of this letter to express our ardent desire of maintaining with you ties of profound friendship that have united us for so many years."
http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/steffeshausen_foundation.pdf (http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/steffeshausen_foundation.pdf) (See pp. 5-6)

The approach of Menzingen toward the religious communities this last decade (and longer) is in total contradiction to that of Archbishop Lefebvre, and as Avrille adduced, all to sell them down the river to modernist Rome.

(https://www.cathinfo.com/Themes/DeepBlue/images/icons/clip.gif) steffeshausen_foundation.pdf (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/?action=dlattach;attach=12745) (1692.67 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
(https://www.cathinfo.com/Themes/DeepBlue/images/icons/clip.gif) Fr. Jurgen Wegner _ Give Him Your Heart.pdf (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/?action=dlattach;attach=12746) (4014.17 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
(https://www.cathinfo.com/Themes/DeepBlue/images/icons/clip.gif) Bishop de Galarreta Archives - Dominicans of Avrille, France.pdf (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/?action=dlattach;attach=12747) (1936.35 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: SeanJohnson on August 10, 2019, 09:39:09 AM
There has been no deal. Most Novus Ordo priests I’ve spoken to still see the Society as schismatic

The SSPX is 95% "regularized."

What "most Novus Ordo priests" think is irrelavent.  

Pretending the SSPX is a threat to perpetuate the illusion of their traditionalism is only to facilitate the sellout (and an artifice to deceive the SSPX faithful: "Oh, the liberals hate us = we are still traditional).  But did you notice that practically every conciliar bishop is helping the SSPX into the fold?  

Telling, however, that you (a militant SSPXer) admit to speaking with numerous Novus Ordo priests.

Myself, as an old-SSPXer, don't have anything to do with a single one of them.

See the difference?
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: SeanJohnson on August 10, 2019, 09:46:04 AM
Here's another selection from the CCCC quoting Archbishop Lefebvre as declaring he had no jurisdiction over the exempt religious communities (see bolded quote):

#41: Change (The Expulsion of Bishop Williamson - Part II):

In the previous post, we saw that one of the two main reasons adduced as justification for the expulsion of Bishop Williamson from the SSPX was the bishop's "unauthorized" pastoral visit to Dom Thomas Aquinas's Holy Cross Monastery to offer confirmations to the faithful attached thereto.

But what was the historical context within which this pastoral visit transpired?

Why were the General House and the South American District so enraged?

One familiar with the strained relationship between Dom Thomas Aquinas and Menzingen between 2000 - 2012 will know the answer, and this succinct description by the Dominicans of Avrille tells the reader all he needs to know:

"When Benedict XVI issued his Motu Proprio on the “extraordinary rite”, Father Thomas Aquinas refused to sing the Te Deum at Sunday Mass, as asked by Bishop Fellay to greet the papal docuмent.  Furthermore, on the occasion of the alleged lifting of the alleged excommunications, Father Thomas Aquinas wrote a letter to Bishop Fellay in which he announced that he would not obey if an agreement with conciliar Rome took place.  Soon after, Bishop de Galarreta and Father Bouchacourt came to the monastery to tell Father Thomas Aquinas that he had fifteen days to leave Santa Cruz, otherwise the monastery would no longer receive any help or sacraments from the SSPX.  With Bishop Williamson’s spiritual assistance, Father Thomas Aquinas was able to stay at the monastery.  On 8 September 2012, he wrote: 'Unity must be based on the truth, that is to say on the Catholic Faith; and the words and attitudes of Bishop Fellay are unfortunately not those of a disciple of Archbishop Lefebvre who defended the truth without compromise...'"
http://www.dominicansavrille.us/presentation-of-bishop-dom-thomas-aquinas-o-s-b-part-2/#easy-footnote-bottom-1 (http://www.dominicansavrille.us/presentation-of-bishop-dom-thomas-aquinas-o-s-b-part-2/#easy-footnote-bottom-1)

And there it is: Bishop Fellay was trying to spiritually starve and extort the Benedictines into compromise, while Bishop Williamson was charitably subverting Bishop Fellay's punitive coercion and helping the Benedictines to stay faithful to Archbishop Lefebvre.

This is the true cause of the punitive expulsion of Bishop Williamson: He kept subverting Bishop Fellay's sellout.

But what jurisdiction did Bishop Fellay and the SSPX have over the exempt religious orders?

None!

Had not Archbishop Lefebvre written to Dom Thomas Aquinas that, "You must revere and consult the bishops of the SSPX, but they do not have jurisdiction over you because, as Prior of the Monastery, you must have autonomy."
http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/2016/02/quien-es-dom-tomas-de-aquino-ferreira.html#more (http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/2016/02/quien-es-dom-tomas-de-aquino-ferreira.html#more)

Note also that, in the Communique released shortly after Bishop Williamson's visit by Fr. Bouchacourt (then South American District Superior), he implies that Bishop Williamson's visit was not necessary, since "for many months" the SSPX had already planned to perform confirmations in Brazil (and by implication, also for Dom Thomas Aquinas).
http://archives.sspx.org/sspx_and_rome/fr_christian_bouchacourt_8-6-2012_communique.htm (http://archives.sspx.org/sspx_and_rome/fr_christian_bouchacourt_8-6-2012_communique.htm)

However, that implication is not consistent with Bishop Fellay's earlier declaration to Dom Thomas Aquinas that, unless he resigned, the monastery would no longer receive financial or spiritual assistance.  Nor would it have made any sense for Bishop Williamson to have gone to Brazil in the first place, if confirmations for Santa Cruz were already scheduled (i.e., Dom Thomas would not have needed him.  What would be the point?).
(https://www.cathinfo.com/Themes/DeepBlue/images/icons/clip.gif) Non Possumus_ QUIÉN ES DOM TOMÁS DE AQUINO FERREIRA DA COSTA, NUESTRO NUEVO OBISPO_ UN TESTIMONIO.pdf (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/?action=dlattach;attach=12528) (2750.52 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
(https://www.cathinfo.com/Themes/DeepBlue/images/icons/clip.gif) Fr Bouchacourt communique concerning Bishop Williamsons visit to Brazil 9-11-2012.pdf (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/?action=dlattach;attach=12529) (186.98 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
(https://www.cathinfo.com/Themes/DeepBlue/images/icons/clip.gif) Presentation of Bishop Dom Thomas Aquinas O.S.B. (Part 2) - Dominicans of Avrille, France.pdf (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/?action=dlattach;attach=12530) (1425.79 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 09:47:31 AM
The SSPX is 95% "regularized."

What "most Novus Ordo priests" think is irrelavent.  

Pretending the SSPX is a threat to perpetuate the illusion of their traditionalism is only to facilitate the sellout (and an artifice to deceive the SSPX faithful: "Oh, the liberals hate us = we are still traditional).  But did you notice that practically every conciliar bishop is helping the SSPX into the fold?  

Telling, however, that you (a militant SSPXer) admit to speaking with numerous Novus Ordo priests.

Myself, as an old-SSPXer, don't have anything to do with a single one of them.

See the difference?
There’s no harm in talking to someone. Leaving Rome alone will do nothing if we wish to convert them. I guess by your logic I shouldn’t talk to Protestants, Muslims, Jєωs, Atheists, etc because they might corrupt me. No need to evangelize them. When I speak with New Order priests the discussion usually turns into a vigorous argument. I’m not learning from them
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Incredulous on August 10, 2019, 09:50:06 AM

Beautiful post Mr. G and even a nice assist from Megster!

Poor Father Albert. He carries a heavy burden of betraying his Dominican fratres.

Let's pray for him, that he finds his way and returns to the Dominicans of Avrille' like the prodigal son.

The Dominicans are charged with protecting and preaching Our Lady's Psalter.

According to Sister Lucy (I), Our Lady advised that the Rosary is one of the two key means of salvation,
(at this end of the 5th Age of the Church).

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi0.wp.com%2Fcatholicism.org%2Fwp-content%2Fblogs.dir%2F1%2Ffiles%2F2008%2F07%2Fsaint-dominic-rosary-flemish-school.jpg&f=1)

Therefore, what an honor it is to be a Dominican!

Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: SeanJohnson on August 10, 2019, 09:55:28 AM
There’s no harm in talking to someone. Leaving Rome alone will do nothing if we wish to convert them. I guess by your logic I shouldn’t talk to Protestants, Muslims, Jєωs, Atheists, etc because they might corrupt me. No need to evangelize them. When I speak with New Order priests the discussion usually turns into a vigorous argument. I’m not learning from them
As you can see from the effect of the decades-long ralliement on the SSPX, there is PLENTY of harm in "talking with someone."


"Fideliter - Some of the faithful are tempted to keep good relations with those who have rallied, or even attend the Mass or ceremonies that they celebrate, do you think that there is a danger in that?
Archbishop Lefebvre - I have always warned the faithful, the sedevacantists, for example. There also people say: “The Mass is fine, so we go to it.”
Yes, there is the Mass. That’s fine, but there is also the sermon; there is the atmosphere, the conversations, contacts before and after, which make you little by little change your ideas. It is therefore a danger and that’s why in general, I think it constitutes part of a whole. One does not merely go to Mass, one frequents a milieu.
There are obviously some people who are attracted by the beautiful ceremonies, who also go to Fontgombault, where they have taken up the old mass again. They are in a climate of ambiguity which to my mind is dangerous. Once one finds oneself in this atmosphere, submitted to the Vatican, subject ultimately to the Council, one ends up by becoming ecuмenical."

Same thing for conversations with conciliar clergy:

First you get to be friendly, then you start to see things from their perspective, then you drop your condemnations, then you shift in their direction.

This has been the process of every capitulation since V2.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: SeanJohnson on August 10, 2019, 09:58:26 AM
Even MORE regarding ABL on the lack of jurisdiction over the EXEMPT religious congregations allied with Tradition:

#93: Change (Extorting Holy Orders for Loyalty?):

In late June, 2012 three Dominican subdeacons from Avrille, France and three Deacons from the Capuchins of Morgon were among those on retreat, preparing for their forthcoming ordinations to the diaconate and priesthood six days hence (on June 29).  Abruptly, they were extracted from among their colleagues, and sent back to their respective monasteries, and told they would no longer be ordained.

What had happened?  Had someone come forward regarding impediments to the reception of further major orders?  Had their seminary professors second-guessed their former favorable appraisals of the candidates' academic or moral fitness?  

On the contrary: 

According to what has become known as the Steffeshausen Memorandum, Avrille provides some context to the June 25 letter of the General House in which the postponement of ordinations is announced:

"In the afternoon of 21 June 2012, the Secretary General of the SSPX called the Father Prior of Avrille.  After having reproached him for playing in the refectory a sermon of a prior of the SSPX who was hostile to the agreement with Rome, he added, 'Father, if we sign an agreement with Rome, will you follow us?'  Father Prior, a little surprised, explained to him that if there were an agreement with Rome, it would be on the basis of the Doctrinal Declaration that Bishop Fellay had sent to Rome in April and that we had not yet even seen.  'Indeed, you are not familiar with this text, but I cannot tell you about it.  You must trust us.' 

Father Prior asked him for two days to reflect on the matter, which he obtained with difficulty.

The next day on June 22, at 9:26 AM, without waiting for the two days to pass, we received a fax from Bishop Fellay, followed by an email from the Secretary General, informing us of the refusal to ordain to the diaconate the three brothers who were to be ordained at Econe on 29 June.  Bishop Fellay wrote in his fax: 

'Confidence in the Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X has been shaken in your friary; therefore, I think it is necessary to postpone the ordination of the candidates you have presented for the ceremony to be held 29 June next, at Econe...We will wait until confidence has been restored; this will be better for everyone!'

Fr. Thouvenot wrote in his email:

'I did my best to relate to Bishop Fellay the conversation we had yesterday, but obviously the simple fact that you had your community listen to Fr. Koller's crazy sermon, as well as the fact that you needed more than 24 hours to respond to a simple question of trust in his authority, are enough to convince him that he needs to postpone the ordinations.  This morning he forwarded a fax to you informing you of it.  In the hope that you will fall into line and reestablish normal relations of harmonious collaboration, I assure you of my religious devotion.'"
http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/steffeshausen_foundation.pdf (http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/steffeshausen_foundation.pdf) (See pp. 7-8.)

A circular letter from the general House to SSPX priests et al by Fr. Christian Thouvenot explained the reason for cancelling the ordinations:

"Finally, Bp. Fellay has decided to postpone the ordinations of the Dominicans of Avrillé and Capuchins of Morgon that were to take place in Écône on June 29. This postponement of Holy Orders was motivated simply by the wish to ensure the loyalty of these communities before the imposition of hands on their candidates (cf. I Tim. 5, 22)."
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/06/for-record-confidentiality-like-water.html (https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/06/for-record-confidentiality-like-water.html)

Note that the scriptural citation adduced as a justification for the postponement of ordination is neither here nor there: The moral and intellectual fitness for the reception of Holy Orders which this passage pertains to had long since been ascertained by the superiors of the various candidates.  In fact, the stated justification of ensuring loyalty of the respective communities to Menzingen follows nearly as a non-sequitur.

But were not these communities independent and exempt from the jurisdiction of the SSPX bishops?  How then could the loyalty of their independent and exempt communities be adduced as grounds for withholding ordinations, when Archbishop Lefebvre had stated on 4/27/81 that he did not want to be Master General of the Dominicans, whereas in October/2012 at the Benedictine monastery at Bellaigue, Bishop de Galarreta informed Father Prior that he must consider Bishop Fellay as taking the place of the Master General of the Order?
(Ibid., p.9)

This illegitimate arrogation of "authority" represented a raw and unjust departure from the position of Archbishop Lefebvre with regard to the religious communities.

Moreover, to withhold ordination on the basis of these communities' fidelity to the Church and Tradition, and refusing to go along with Bishop Fellay's revolution and sellout is objectively an indefensible abuse of the episcopacy, in the case where the ordinands are all adjudged to be perfectly fit candidates for major orders.  

Consequently, the postponement tactic of Bishop Fellay was nothing more than coercion or spiritual blackmail, having nothing to do with the fitness of the candidates, whatever pretext Bishop Fellay may have tried to create with the reference to I Tim. 5, 22.

PS: It would not be the last time Bishop Fellay would abuse his authority in this manner.  In 2016, the Capuchins had recently published a book explaining why a deal with unconverted Rome was not acceptable.  Soon thereafter, they sided with the 7 French Deans, who wrote a letter of opposition to the SSPX's acceptance of the 2017 "Pastoral guidelines" subjecting SSPx marriages to conciliar authority.  Consequently, Bishop Fellay reverted to his extortion tactics, threatening for a 2nd time to withhold ordinations from Morgon.  You can read about that incident here: https://tradidi.com/menzingen-refuses-to-ordain-the-capuchins-deacons (https://tradidi.com/menzingen-refuses-to-ordain-the-capuchins-deacons)
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Meg on August 10, 2019, 10:05:10 AM
There’s no harm in talking to someone. Leaving Rome alone will do nothing if we wish to convert them. I guess by your logic I shouldn’t talk to Protestants, Muslims, Jєωs, Atheists, etc because they might corrupt me. No need to evangelize them. When I speak with New Order priests the discussion usually turns into a vigorous argument. I’m not learning from them

I know that the above post was directed to Sean, but I'd like to briefly comment.

Sometimes there is no harm in talking to someone. And yes, if we leave Rome alone, they may not be converted. However, it seems that the SSPX is not trying to convert Modernist Rome; rather, the SSPX wants concessions without Rome's conversion. There was a time when +ABL too though that this might be a good idea, but not in the late 1980's. He gave up on that idea. He said that Modernism is like a disease. How many former Modernists do you hear about, who have repented of their Modernist ways?

I too talk to priests in the conciliar church - which sometimes turns into an argument. Sometimes it has a good outcome. Sometimes not.

The SSPX doesn't seem interested anymore in converting Modernist Rome. They seldom criticize, in any meaningful way, the terrible actions and words of Pope Francis. That's a big problem for some of us.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Kazimierz on August 10, 2019, 06:22:45 PM
I heard Fr Albert has been trying to retire to OLG Silver City but things are caught up in immigration. Heard from Fr Dominic May, who is presently in Missouri, but a native Albertan like bearself. 
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Augustinus21 on August 13, 2019, 11:03:17 AM
I heard Fr Albert has been trying to retire to OLG Silver City but things are caught up in immigration. Heard from Fr Dominic May, who is presently in Missouri, but a native Albertan like bearself.
This is true
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Incredulous on August 13, 2019, 10:04:37 PM


Fr. Albert should settle down from his American wanderings and retire at his old Dominican monastery in France.

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dominicansavrille.us%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F05%2Fclip_image004_thumb.jpg&f=1)
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Geremia on August 09, 2020, 04:14:42 PM
I heard Fr Albert has been trying to retire to OLG Silver City but things are caught up in immigration.
Yes, he wants to return to Silver City to teach at the monastery.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: andy on June 25, 2021, 04:52:29 PM
This is probably less know video from fr. Albert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmlj_3gvdM0 . Probably the strongest voice about (in)validity of NO "sacraments". He concludes that the future pope will have to determine, ergo opens the door for the invalidity.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Incredulous on June 25, 2021, 07:00:26 PM


I'm glad Father Albert holds that position.

50 years ago, Father Wathen put everything on the line to warn Catholics of the new mass.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.xq4AIfhH3frcWcYuH2fYXgAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Geremia on June 25, 2021, 11:02:27 PM
Fr. Albert should settle down from his American wanderings and retire at his old Dominican monastery in France.
Dominicans are a preaching order, not bound by a vow of stability/permanence. Some of them are meant to be out traveling and preaching.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Maria Auxiliadora on June 26, 2021, 01:47:24 PM
Quote
The SSPX is 95% "regularized."


Only 95%?


Quote
https://gloria.tv/post/UQSBkni1bnxe32f4NhJHwXocM

Pope Francis Has Fully Regularized the SSPX - James Bogle
Pope Francis has fully regularized the Society of St Pius X (SSPX), James Bogle, the ex-president of Una Voce International, told Gloria.tv (video below).
 
 Bogle stressed that the SSPX and the sacraments administrated by them, including marriages and confessions, have been formally recognized by Francis. The Society is also allowed to ordain to the priesthood whomever they see fit.
 
 Francis further appointed SSPX Bishop Bernard Fellay as a judge at the Rota Romana, the highest appellate tribunal of the Church, thus recognizing his authority.
 
 "I don't see how much more regular you can get than that," Bogle concludes. He acknowledges, however, that there are a lot of intolerant bishops who still treat the SSPX as if it were irregular.
 
 To them, Bogle answers that those who do not like the integration of the SSPX "better have the argument with Pope Francis."


In the video on the link provided above, Mr. Bogle says that +Fellay himself told him he was a member of the Roman Rota and that he contacted the Roman Rota to confirm it.
When the SSPX was regularized in Argentina, Adelante la Fe hired an Argentinian lawyer to write a Juridical Analysis of the implications of the SSPX regularization in Argentina. The analysis concluded that it constituted a sort of "back door" entrance into the Church and that it was "impossible", according to Argentinian Law, to be regularized in Argentina and not in the rest of the world. I can only find it in Spanish, please translate. Rorate Caeli published it in English but can't find it now.                                                  



Click the link below for the full analysis.
Quote
https://adelantelafe.com/analisis-juridico-del-reconocimiento-de-la-fsspx-en-argentina-un-avance-mas-alla-de-benedicto-xvi/
"Releí las partes pertinentes del Código de Derecho Canónico y estoy más convencido aún que no hay forma de considerar a la FSSPX parte de la Iglesia en Argentina y no en el resto del mundo. Viola toda lógica jurídica."
and...

...Se estaría ante una gravísima situación donde no comulgan con Roma pero sí reciben los beneficios en Argentina por ser “romanos”.
  

"Es imposible que a esto se llegue sin el acuerdo de Roma y de Econe“.

Rorate Caeli would not be endorsing the SSPX and covering their ordinations unless they were fully regularized.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Incredulous on June 26, 2021, 02:18:38 PM

Only 95%?



In the video on the link provided above, Mr. Bogle says that +Fellay himself told him he was a member of the Roman Rota and that he contacted the Roman Rota to confirm it.
When the SSPX was regularized in Argentina, Adelante la Fe hired an Argentinian lawyer to write a Juridical Analysis of the implications of the SSPX regularization in Argentina. The analysis concluded that it constituted a sort of "back door" entrance into the Church and that it was "impossible", according to Argentinian Law, to be regularized in Argentina and not in the rest of the world. I can only find it in Spanish, please translate. Rorate Caeli published it in English but can't find it now.                                                  



Click the link below for the full analysis.
Rorate Caeli would not be endorsing the SSPX and covering their ordinations unless they were fully regularized.

Well, isn’t this the other shoe 👞 hitting the floor...?

Isn’t this the bσɱbshell announcement that the SSPX Resistance said would happen and was waiting for?
:incense:
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Maria Auxiliadora on June 26, 2021, 02:49:20 PM

A "back door entrance" hidden from the resistance as well as the modernists. A master stroke!
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Incredulous on June 26, 2021, 08:08:18 PM


Francis terminates Benedict’s Summorum Pontificuм and regularizes the SSPX.  

So then, the only Jєω-Pope, kosher Mass left, is that celebrated by a Society priest, or their underlings (FSSP, ICTK).

Don’t that beat all  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: andy on June 26, 2021, 09:04:05 PM

Francis terminates Benedict’s Summorum Pontificuм and regularizes the SSPX.  
I have noticed some FSSPX priests and/or districts distance themselves from Vatican recently.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Incredulous on June 26, 2021, 09:42:15 PM
I have noticed some FSSPX priests and/or districts distance themselves from Vatican recently.



A schism within the FSSPX would be a grace.

But then, there's no home for the priests who want to resist regularization with Bergolio?

That's what the SSPX Resistance was supposed to be about.  A home for militant priests.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Marion on June 27, 2021, 10:09:19 AM
This is definitely crystal clear ...

Indeed. Mass has to be valid and pleasing God. The Novos Ordo mass isn't.

Does he have a crystal clear video about half Protestant and half Catholic Bishops and Popes too?
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: andy on June 28, 2021, 06:17:35 PM
Very strong message about V2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQL-pFxrgFQ
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Maria Auxiliadora on July 01, 2021, 05:04:11 AM
https://youtu.be/xQL-pFxrgFQ

I was very pleased last night to see the SSPX finally reject the Hermeneutics of Continuity. I went to bed wondering what took them so long!!! Faithful Catholics had been warning about it since BXVI and specially since Summorum Pontificuм. The answer came this morning from Rorate Caeli.

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: trento on July 10, 2021, 09:59:49 AM
https://youtu.be/xQL-pFxrgFQ

I was very pleased last night to see the SSPX finally reject the Hermeneutics of Continuity. I went to bed wondering what took them so long!!! Faithful Catholics had been warning about it since BXVI and specially since Summorum Pontificuм. The answer came this morning from Rorate Caeli.

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/
I have heard sermons by SSPX priests about the absurdity of "hermeneutic of continuity".
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Matthew on July 10, 2021, 10:11:45 AM
This is definitely crystal clear compared to Bishop Williamson's position of "do whatever it takes to save your soul even if it means going to the New Mass"

My only criticism of Bp. Williamson here is that he LET the idea become widespread that he has a "position" of this nature. It was personal advice to one lady, as far as I know. Public positions are just that: public. They apply 24/7. You consider them "the truth" and if someone has a different truth, they are in error. You are not likely to work with such individuals, and in fact, in the context of bishops or priests you will ATTACK YOUR OPPONENTS as BEING IN ERROR. Truth in matters of religion is serious business.

What I mean is: most of his words in a sermon or conference are TEACHINGS -- objective truths he's dishing out. Using such a public forum -- the main avenue for DOCTRINE -- to give private advice to one lady (who obviously wasn't willing to go Trad) was imprudent. That's all. That's the extent of my criticism.

A few prudential decisions, private opinions, personal preferences -- why do people try to make them dogmas in the Bishop's mind? He obviously doesn't consider them to be such. If he were making them dogmas "You WILL read Maria Valtorta" we'd be having a different conversation.

Has he ever criticized or refused to work with anyone who disagreed with him on one of his prudential judgments, private opinions, or personal preferences? Not once, to my knowledge.

Has he ever excommunicated someone for not preferring Beethoven to other composers? I don't think so.

I think there's a difference between something said to an individual, and something that's a "standing rule" which guides one's interactions and directs one's path.
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Maria Auxiliadora on July 12, 2021, 11:03:53 AM
I have heard sermons by SSPX priests about the absurdity of "hermeneutic of continuity".


But they (SSPX) have not rejected the (transitional) 1962 missal or Summorum Pontificuм which totally regulates it, not to "liberate it" but to give it its proper burial. If SSPX members cannot see this, they should read the docuмents by BXVI explaining Summorum Pontificuм. To be clear, the purpose of SP is to take merge the "two Forms" into one. In his book The Spirit of the Liturgy (yr. 2000), Ratzinger made it clear that 'two rites were difficult to manage, that eventually, they will have to be merged into ONE'. After this is done, the 1962 missal will be abrogated.

https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/docuмents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.html (https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/docuмents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.html)
https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/docuмents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificuм.html (https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/docuмents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificuм.html)
https://lms.org.uk/universae-ecclesiae (https://lms.org.uk/universae-ecclesiae)
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: trento on July 13, 2021, 02:34:56 AM

But they (SSPX) have not rejected the (transitional) 1962 missal or Summorum Pontificuм which totally regulates it, not to "liberate it" but to give it its proper burial. If SSPX members cannot see this, they should read the docuмents by BXVI explaining Summorum Pontificuм. To be clear, the purpose of SP is to take merge the "two Forms" into one. In his book The Spirit of the Liturgy (yr. 2000), Ratzinger made it clear that 'two rites were difficult to manage, that eventually, they will have to be merged into ONE'. After this is done, the 1962 missal will be abrogated.

https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/docuмents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.html (https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/docuмents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.html)
https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/docuмents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificuм.html (https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/docuмents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificuм.html)
https://lms.org.uk/universae-ecclesiae (https://lms.org.uk/universae-ecclesiae)
Why should they reject the 1962 missal? +Lefebvre accepted that and they are just continuing the usage. Many SSPX priests I spoke to did say the pre-55 is better but 62 is the last acceptable TLM missal widely used. The term transitional is best applied to the 1965 missal, which +Lefebvre did use but ultimately settled for 1962 (until the Nine made a banner out of it to justify their rebellion).
Title: Re: Fr. Albert O.P speaks truth on the New Mass
Post by: Maria Auxiliadora on July 13, 2021, 06:50:28 AM
Why should they reject the 1962 missal? +Lefebvre accepted that and they are just continuing the usage. Many SSPX priests I spoke to did say the pre-55 is better but 62 is the last acceptable TLM missal widely used. The term transitional is best applied to the 1965 missal, which +Lefebvre did use but ultimately settled for 1962 (until the Nine made a banner out of it to justify their rêbêllïon).


It was its author, Msgr. Bugnini who made that clear in 1962. The quote below is from a footnote on a letter written by my husband in 2010 to E.M. Jones and published in part in his magazine. I will also provide a link to that letter where you can find additional information on the 1962 missal.


Quote

http://www.saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/OPEN%20LETTERS/Culture%20Wars%20reply%20for%20web%20posting%209-10.htm

 (http://www.saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/OPEN%20LETTERS/Culture%20Wars%20reply%20for%20web%20posting%209-10.htm#_ednref1)    
Msgr. Annibale Bugnini, an alleged Mason, directed the liturgical reform from 1948 until 1976.  The 1962 Missal, issued at the mid-point of his liturgical tenure, existed only about 2½ years.  It was regarded by Bugnini, who took credit for its authorship, as only a transitional Missal toward his ultimate goal of the Novus Ordo.  Pope Benedict XVI in Summorum Pontificuм said that the relationship of the 1962 Missal to the Novus Ordo is one of organic development, that “
They are, in fact two usages of the one Roman rite.”
   This is true statement for Bugnini said in his book, The Reform of the Liturgy, 1948-1976, that the first principles of liturgical reform adopted by his commission, first principles that were novel, artificial ideological constructs, guided his work and remained absolutely consistent throughout his entire tenure.  The first principles guiding the formation of the 1962 Missal are the same principles that would give us the Novus Ordo.  When Bugnini was asked if the 1962 Missal represented the end of his liturgical innovations he said, “Not by any stretch of the imagination. Every good builder begins by removing the gross accretions, the evident distortions; then with more delicacy and attention he sets out to revise particulars.  The latter remains to be achieved for the Liturgy so that the fullness, dignity and harmony may shine forth once again” (The Organic Development of the Liturgy by Fr. Alcuin Reid).  Thus such feasts as the Solemnity of St. Joseph, the Chair of St. Peter at Rome, the Finding of the True Cross, St. John before the Latin Gate, and many, many other liturgical changes, considered “gross accretions and evident distortions” by those who would eventually give the Church the liturgical “fullness, dignity and harmony” of the Novus Ordo, were done away with in the 1962 Missal.
   It is a fact that the 1962 Missal has never been afforded the standing of Immemorial Tradition by Rome.  Every papal docuмent touching upon this Missal treats it entirely as a subject of Church discipline governed entirely by human positive law first under the norms of Ecclesia Dei as an Indult and now under the restrictive legal stipulations of Summorum Pontificuм as a grant of privilege by positive law.  At no time in the history of the Church has an immemorial liturgical tradition been reduced to the status of an Indult, which is the permission to do something that is not permitted by the positive law of the Church.  This constitutes presumptive proof that Rome does not regard the 1962 Missal as the Immemorial Roman Rite.  
   The 1962 Bugnini transitional Missal was adopted by the SSPX in 1983 as their liturgical standard.