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Author Topic: Forgo  (Read 5326 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: Forgo
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2024, 02:19:38 PM »
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  • You are correct that Archbishop Lefebvre was not a Sedevacantist.  But would he be an Interregnumist if he were alive today?  Hmm.

    There's been a lot of speculation about what +ABL would be if he were alive today. Who wants to focus on what he actually was? Hardly anyone.

    Archbishop Lefebvre needs to be "updated" to fit the new sedevacantist narrative, and this forum facilitates that. And of course, there are many varieties of sedevacantism. Take your pick.

    The Archbishop did not obsess on the Pope, like so many here do. He had better things to do. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online Catholic Knight

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #16 on: July 26, 2024, 02:32:22 PM »
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  • There's been a lot of speculation about what +ABL would be if he were alive today. Who wants to focus on what he actually was? Hardly anyone.

    Archbishop Lefebvre needs to be "updated" to fit the new sedevacantist narrative, and this forum facilitates that. And of course, there are many varieties of sedevacantism. Take your pick.

    The Archbishop did not obsess on the Pope, like so many here do. He had better things to do.

    See you think that Archbishop Lefebvre needs to be "updated" in order to reconcile him with rejecting Jorge Bergoglio as pope if he were alive today.  Wrong.  Archbishop Lefebvre clearly understood that it depended upon the evidence (indicia of heresy).  The Archbishop did not hold to some universal principle that one can never judge a putative pope as not being pope until a future pope makes the judgment.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #17 on: July 26, 2024, 02:52:22 PM »
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  • See you think that Archbishop Lefebvre needs to be "updated" in order to reconcile him with rejecting Jorge Bergoglio as pope if he were alive today.  Wrong.  Archbishop Lefebvre clearly understood that it depended upon the evidence (indicia of heresy).  The Archbishop did not hold to some universal principle that one can never judge a putative pope as not being pope until a future pope makes the judgment.

    No, it's not me who thinks that +ABL needs to be updated. It's all you various flavors of sedevacantism who think that. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online 2Vermont

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #18 on: July 26, 2024, 02:55:41 PM »
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  • No, it's not me who thinks that +ABL needs to be updated. It's all you various flavors of sedevacantism who think that.
    Not me.  I actually don't care what he may or may not believe if he were still alive. 😛

    Online Catholic Knight

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #19 on: July 26, 2024, 02:57:00 PM »
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  • No, it's not me who thinks that +ABL needs to be updated. It's all you various flavors of sedevacantism who think that.

    Read again what I wrote.  You missed it.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #20 on: July 26, 2024, 03:01:28 PM »
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  • Read again what I wrote.  You missed it.

    I understood what you wrote. Go ahead and update +ABL according to your own opinions. You are hardly the only one to do so. Eventually, most trads will forget about +ABL, and the good example he provided.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #21 on: July 26, 2024, 03:15:58 PM »
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  • I understood what you wrote. Go ahead and update +ABL according to your own opinions. You are hardly the only one to do so. Eventually, most trads will forget about +ABL, and the good example he provided.

    What makes you think that Archbishop Lefebvre would accept Jorge Bergoglio as pope if he were alive today?

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #22 on: July 26, 2024, 03:37:23 PM »
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  • What makes you think that Archbishop Lefebvre would accept Jorge Bergoglio as pope if he were alive today?

    Don't forget -- it's a pretty hefty interregnum. The Church has never seen one even a fraction as long as the time elapsed from the death of Pius XII to today.
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    Online Catholic Knight

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #23 on: July 26, 2024, 03:40:55 PM »
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  • Don't forget -- it's a pretty hefty interregnum. The Church has never seen one even a fraction as long as the time elapsed from the death of Pius XII to today.

    I use the term "Interregnumist" for one who holds that the last true pope was Benedict XVI.

    Offline Infirmus

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #24 on: July 26, 2024, 09:15:39 PM »
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  • Sounds like your real issue is with Vigano.  What did you expect from him? Did you place your trust in princes?
    I never put my trust in Vigano, I was always weary of him, problem was the praise the resistance (the ABL resistance) was giving him. I was getting more suspicious when he used Jorge or Bergoglio instead of Pope Francis. I couldn't even finish any of his discourses, too long and I'm not that smart with the language he uses. ABL is more clear.  

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #25 on: July 26, 2024, 10:46:37 PM »
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  • 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2


    Quote
    1 And we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him:  2 That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand.  3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,  4 Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.  5 Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

    6- And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time  7 For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way.  8 And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him,  9 Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,  10 And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:

    11 That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity.  12 But we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved of God, for that God hath chosen you firstfruits unto salvation, in sanctification of the spirit, and faith of the truth:  13 Whereunto also he hath called you by our gospel, unto the purchasing of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.  14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.  15 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace,

    16 Exhort your hearts, and confirm you in every good work and word.

    This chapter has always held me in a special awe because it provides me with the framework necessary to respond in a Catholic way to world events. I have to live in this world (for a time), so I need the compass of Truth.

    So:

    • near The End
    • there will be a revolt
    • "he who now holdeth" (a true Pope) shall be "taken out of the way"
    • unleashing the Anti-Christ


    and

    • those who do not love the Truth
    • will be sent the "operation of error to believe lies"
    • and will be damned for their failure to love the Truth.


    and

    • for our Salvation we must adhere to the perennial and unchangeable Truth



    Opinion: Meg rages and obsesses (ineffectually!) because she refuses to see that the one who "holdeth" has been "taken out of the way." The V2 and post-V2 papal pretenders have not "held" against the Anti-Christ. Instead they have facilitated the Anti-Christ.

    You all can believe whatever the Hell [literally] you want to believe. I believe that anyone who believes that Jorge "holds [against the Anti-Christ]" and is a true Pope does not love the Truth, so God has sent you the "operation of error to believe lies."

    Obsess and rage on as you will.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #26 on: July 27, 2024, 05:36:51 AM »
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  • I never put my trust in Vigano, I was always weary wary of him,
    Your words: 
    Quote
    I'm sorry but I'm sad, my heart just sank with Vigano.

    Yes, you had put your hopes in Vigano to be a ++ LeFebvre and he’s not.  Both men speak the Truth in the time God chose for them.

    Put your hopes in God and trust Him.

    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Infirmus

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #27 on: July 27, 2024, 05:56:58 AM »
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  • So....being in the midst of the crisis that God has permitted isn't to your liking? Join the club, my friend, join the club.
    My advice is to get some rest, then take up your cross again; it ain't gonna move itself.

    6 For wrath is in his indignation; and life in his good will. In the evening weeping shall have place, and in the morning gladness.
    Our Lord wept at times, I see division over this, sorrow is a natural response.

    Offline Infirmus

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #28 on: July 27, 2024, 05:59:47 AM »
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  • What authority do you have to say that Vatican II is not Catholic?  Just leave it to a future pope.  Accept the Council now!
    A totalist told me “ if he is the pope, obey!” Silly response

    Online 2Vermont

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #29 on: July 27, 2024, 06:06:56 AM »
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  • I never put my trust in Vigano, I was always weary of him, problem was the praise the resistance (the ABL resistance) was giving him. I was getting more suspicious when he used Jorge or Bergoglio instead of Pope Francis. I couldn't even finish any of his discourses, too long and I'm not that smart with the language he uses. ABL is more clear. 
    Sure you did.  He's been using "Jorge" or "Bergoglio" for a long time now.  If he hadn't gone "sede!" (according to you), you wouldn't be here whining (and weeping) about him.