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Author Topic: Forgo  (Read 5340 times)

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Offline Infirmus

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Forgo
« on: July 25, 2024, 09:12:52 PM »
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    • Is there more sede theories other than totalists, sedeprivationists, or Viganoists proclaim?
    I tried reading the cassiciacuм thesis, I don't believe I could pronounce the word, let alone finish the thesis.
    I'll forgo the enlightenment. 
    By what authority do you have to say this Pope is not the pope, who are you siding with? Is it just some thesis you read and say "you know what there ain't no pope right now". Nobody is responsible for you sedevacantists claiming sedevacante but yourself as an individual. YOU cannot blame anyone but yourself for making that judgment.
    Is it just easier to say these conciliar popes have not been the pope and be satisfied after it's done, why not leave the situation to God Almighty and pray for the Pope. 
    The Resistance is divided and dividing, and along comes Vigano, as if life itself is not trying by itself.
    God help us. I'm sorry but I'm sad, my heart just sank with Vigano.
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #1 on: July 25, 2024, 09:40:54 PM »
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    • So....being in the midst of the crisis that God has permitted isn't to your liking? Join the club, my friend, join the club.
    My advice is to get some rest, then take up your cross again; it ain't gonna move itself.

     6 For wrath is in his indignation; and life in his good will. In the evening weeping shall have place, and in the morning gladness.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #2 on: July 26, 2024, 07:11:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: Infirmus on July 25, 2024, 09:12:52 PM
    Is there more sede theories other than totalists, sedeprivationists, or Viganoists proclaim?
    I tried reading the cassiciacuм thesis, I don't believe I could pronounce the word, let alone finish the thesis.
    I'll forgo the enlightenment.
    By what authority do you have to say this Pope is not the pope, who are you siding with? Is it just some thesis you read and say "you know what there ain't no pope right now". Nobody is responsible for you sedevacantists claiming sedevacante but yourself as an individual. YOU cannot blame anyone but yourself for making that judgment.
    Is it just easier to say these conciliar popes have not been the pope and be satisfied after it's done, why not leave the situation to God Almighty and pray for the Pope.
    The Resistance is divided and dividing, and along comes Vigano, as if life itself is not trying by itself.
    God help us. I'm sorry but I'm sad, my heart just sank with Vigano.
    Sounds like your real issue is with Vigano.  What did you expect from him? Did you place your trust in princes? 
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    Offline Gunter

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #3 on: July 26, 2024, 07:27:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: Infirmus on July 25, 2024, 09:12:52 PM
    Is there more sede theories other than totalists, sedeprivationists, or Viganoists proclaim?
    I tried reading the cassiciacuм thesis, I don't believe I could pronounce the word, let alone finish the thesis.
    I'll forgo the enlightenment.
    By what authority do you have to say this Pope is not the pope, who are you siding with? Is it just some thesis you read and say "you know what there ain't no pope right now". Nobody is responsible for you sedevacantists claiming sedevacante but yourself as an individual. YOU cannot blame anyone but yourself for making that judgment.
    Is it just easier to say these conciliar popes have not been the pope and be satisfied after it's done, why not leave the situation to God Almighty and pray for the Pope.
    The Resistance is divided and dividing, and along comes Vigano, as if life itself is not trying by itself.
    God help us. I'm sorry but I'm sad, my heart just sank with Vigano.
    Defect of intent is simple to understand.  Acceptance is not forced but is of the will.  Prayer is always good.
    https://youtube.com/shorts/CusZXhODU54?si=ORr_DVBlAgI-1iRs
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #4 on: July 26, 2024, 08:37:09 AM »
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    • Quote from: Infirmus on July 25, 2024, 09:12:52 PM
    By what authority do you have to say this Pope is not the pope, who are you siding with? Is it just some thesis you read and say "you know what there ain't no pope right now". Nobody is responsible for you sedevacantists claiming sedevacante but yourself as an individual. YOU cannot blame anyone but yourself for making that judgment.

    What authority do you have to say that Vatican II is not Catholic?  Just leave it to a future pope.  Accept the Council now!
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #5 on: July 26, 2024, 10:18:45 AM »
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    • Quote from: Infirmus on July 25, 2024, 09:12:52 PM

    By what authority do you have to say this Pope is not the pope, who are you siding with?
    It is the same authority that you decided that he Novus Ordo Mass is a danger to the Faith, and sacrilegious. Same authority that the Resistance priest use to operate in complete independence and opposition to the hierarchy. Same authority that tells you that Pope Franics says and does things contrary to the Faith, and same authority that  told Archbishop Lefebvre to use supplied jurisdiction, resist the Pope and disregard any suspensions and excommunications, same authority that Biship Williamson and other former SSPX priests used to disobey Bishop Felly and resist the new direction of the SSPX.

    On a practical level, how does Archbishop Vigano doubting the validly of Pope Franis actually affect you? Do you live in Italy and attend his Mass? Do you know of a Resistance Priests that said "I believe Vigano is right, therefore I have to no longer associate with anyone that does not believe as I do."
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #6 on: July 26, 2024, 11:25:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mr G on July 26, 2024, 10:18:45 AM
    It is the same authority that you decided that he Novus Ordo Mass is a danger to the Faith, and sacrilegious. Same authority that the Resistance priest use to operate in complete independence and opposition to the hierarchy. Same authority that tells you that Pope Franics says and does things contrary to the Faith, and same authority that  told Archbishop Lefebvre to use supplied jurisdiction, resist the Pope and disregard any suspensions and excommunications, same authority that Biship Williamson and other former SSPX priests used to disobey Bishop Felly and resist the new direction of the SSPX.

    On a practical level, how does Archbishop Vigano doubting the validly of Pope Franis actually affect you? Do you live in Italy and attend his Mass? Do you know of a Resistance Priests that said "I believe Vigano is right, therefore I have to no longer associate with anyone that does not believe as I do."

    It's funny that some Resistance folk claim that they do not have the authority to hold that Jorge Bergoglio is not pope and in the same breath claim that Vatican II is not Catholic.  They can't state the obvious using their reason, that is, that Jorge Bergoglio is not pope AND that Vatican II is not Catholic.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #7 on: July 26, 2024, 12:57:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Catholic Knight on July 26, 2024, 11:25:43 AM
    It's funny that some Resistance folk claim that they do not have the authority to hold that Jorge Bergoglio is not pope and in the same breath claim that Vatican II is not Catholic.  They can't state the obvious using their reason, that is, that Jorge Bergoglio is not pope AND that Vatican II is not Catholic.

    Well, you'd have to understand the history of the fight for Tradition since the Council. I don't think that you do understand it. Since you seem fairly new to Tradition, you may not understand the battle that was waged by +ABL to maintain Tradition all those years ago. Yes, we believe that Pope Francis is the Pope, but we do not accept the Council as being legit.

    Of course, very few on this forum cares at all about the fight for Tradition that was waged by +ABL and others. All that matters is that we support the sedevacantists, and that we must forget about Archbishop Lefebvre. He's old news, and not relevant (according to the new model), which the Resistance appears to support. I don't think that the Resistance cares at all about Archbishop Lefebvre. They (Bp. Williamson, Fr. Chazal, et al) are no different than Bp. Fellay.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #8 on: July 26, 2024, 01:08:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on July 26, 2024, 12:57:50 PM
    Well, you'd have to understand the history of the fight for Tradition since the Council. I don't think that you do understand it. Since you seem fairly new to Tradition, you may not understand the battle that was waged by +ABL to maintain Tradition all those years ago. Yes, we believe that Pope Francis is the Pope, but we do not accept the Council as being legit.

    Of course, very few on this forum cares at all about the fight for Tradition that was waged by +ABL and others. All that matters is that we support the sedevacantists, and that we must forget about Archbishop Lefebvre. He's old news, and not relevant (according to the new model).

    I know very well the fight.  Archbishop Lefebvre did not hold the position that we can never make a private judgment that a putative pope is not pope.  

    I am not a Sedevacantist, by the way.  I am an Interregnumist.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #9 on: July 26, 2024, 01:10:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Catholic Knight on July 26, 2024, 01:08:54 PM
    I know very well the fight.  Archbishop Lefebvre did not hold the position that we can never make a private judgment that a putative pope is not pope. 

    I am not a Sedevacantist, by the way.  I am an Interregnumist.

    You can make up whatever name suits you, but you do not understand the fight for Tradition. Archbishop Lefebvre was not a sedevacantist.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Gunter

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #10 on: July 26, 2024, 01:33:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on July 26, 2024, 01:10:35 PM
    You can make up whatever name suits you, but you do not understand the fight for Tradition. Archbishop Lefebvre was not a sedevacantist.
    Meg you must be the most loyal person I know.  
    It's not a bad quality. 
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #11 on: July 26, 2024, 01:39:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gunter on July 26, 2024, 01:33:19 PM
    Meg you must be the most loyal person I know. 
    It's not a bad quality.

    Thank you, Gunter.

    There's been a steady endeavor to take the Resistance away from the example shown by +ABL. And it's been an endeavor waged by those in the Resistance. I just didn't realize it until recently.

    Fr. Chazal softened us up, with his firm stance against dogmatic sedevacantism, but actually he is himself a sedevacantist, he just hid it well. And now Bp. Wiliamson is fine with
    Saint Vigano's sedevacantism.

    There now there is no group that exists that offers the same good example of the Archbishop. They've all been compromised.  Nothing can be done about except complain.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #12 on: July 26, 2024, 01:45:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on July 26, 2024, 12:57:50 PM
    Well, you'd have to understand the history of the fight for Tradition since the Council. I don't think that you do understand it. ..... I don't think that the Resistance cares at all about Archbishop Lefebvre. They (Bp. Williamson, Fr. Chazal, et al) are no different than Bp. Fellay.
    To make a wild generalized statement, with no proof, like this, shows that it is Meg who lacks the understanding of "history of the fight for Tradition since the Council."
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #13 on: July 26, 2024, 01:52:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mr G on July 26, 2024, 01:45:23 PM
    To make a wild generalized statement, with no proof, like this, shows that it is Meg who lacks the understanding of "history of the fight for Tradition since the Council."

    I didn't intend it to be generalized. It just happens to be true, IMO.

    You yourself are a sedevacantist, isn't that correct? And you support the Resistance? So you really don't mind the sedevacantist direction that the Resistance has taken, would that be right?
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Forgo
    « Reply #14 on: July 26, 2024, 02:07:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on July 26, 2024, 01:10:35 PM
    You can make up whatever name suits you, but you do not understand the fight for Tradition. Archbishop Lefebvre was not a sedevacantist.

    You are correct that Archbishop Lefebvre was not a Sedevacantist.  But would he be an Interregnumist if he were alive today?  Hmm.
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