St. Paul:Your comments are unrelated to the topic of this discussion thread and wholly unnecessary. Everyone reading CathInfo is aware of Francis' quotation, its meaning and its implications. Your remarks add nothing to what is already obvious without further commentary.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not so much as be named among you, as becometh saints. Ephesians 5:3
I don't understand why this would be a problem.It appears to be a lovely gesture...it is not. Not for one moment is the pope extending an olive branch but rather using the SSPX to further destroy the issue of jurisdiction, which has always been a necessary part of the governance by bishops in the structure of the church.
When folk were first drawn to the Society all those years ago, were they aware that some special status within the Church was being sought which would forever leave them as some exotic sideshow on the fringe of the mainstream? It is starting to look as though Abp. Lefebvre was more intent on establishing an institution within an institution that would reflect his idiosyncratic form of Catholicism than on mounting a broad counter-reformation in opposition to the Rome takeover. As a result the history of the SSPX will be regarded as an internal squabble whose resolution will ultimately brush aside most instances of mutual awkwardness.Yes...although it feels different coming from the pope himself. The SSPX will forever be playing mouse to Rome's cat it appears!
Bypassing diocesan bishops reminds me of the mid-19th century in England when Newman would deal directly with Rome with his Oratory project. The same goes for the Christian Brothers who in my knowledge liked to compete with local bishops when advancing the mission of the Church. So, there are precedents for this special behaviour which should reassure Menzingen that its peculiarity is not that abnormal. So much for the Society's policy of obduracy and resistance.
Whether or not the priests of the Society ever believed that they were part of a plan to convert the new church, the idea now is that this is not going to happen. Even Bp. Williamson has given up and relies on magic and miracles to to do this for him. I am afraid the hope for active traditionalism must lie a million miles away from the SSPX and its historic contagion.
When folk were first drawn to the Society all those years ago, were they aware that some special status within the Church was being sought which would forever leave them as some exotic sideshow on the fringe of the mainstream? It is starting to look as though Abp. Lefebvre was more intent on establishing an institution within an institution that would reflect his idiosyncratic form of Catholicism than on mounting a broad counter-reformation in opposition to the Rome takeover. As a result the history of the SSPX will be regarded as an internal squabble whose resolution will ultimately brush aside most instances of mutual awkwardness.Very insightful commentary and true to the third degree.
Bypassing diocesan bishops reminds me of the mid-19th century in England when Newman would deal directly with Rome with his Oratory project. The same goes for the Christian Brothers who in my knowledge liked to compete with local bishops when advancing the mission of the Church. So, there are precedents for this special behaviour which should reassure Menzingen that its peculiarity is not that abnormal. So much for the Society's policy of obduracy and resistance.
Whether or not the priests of the Society ever believed that they were part of a plan to convert the new church, the idea now is that this is not going to happen. Even Bp. Williamson has given up and relies on magic and miracles to to do this for him. I am afraid the hope for active traditionalism must lie a million miles away from the SSPX and its historic contagion.
It appears to be a lovely gesture...it is not. Not for one moment is the pope extending an olive branch but rather using the SSPX to further destroy the issue of jurisdiction, which has always been a necessary part of the governance by bishops in the structure of the church.So you are saying that for the SSPX to have legitimate jurisdiction is a bad thing?
So you are saying that for the SSPX to have legitimate jurisdiction is a bad thing?Well i suppose if the pope says it is okay...then it is okay, right?
So you are saying that for the SSPX to have legitimate jurisdiction is a bad thing?Well, what might be a bad thing is to assume that the leaders of a false church are legitimate enough to licitly grant any jurisdiction in the Catholic Church, and why would such a group want it from a non-Catholic source?
Well i suppose if the pope says it is okay...then it is okay, right?In this case why not?
So Bishop Fellay is saying that previously all Holy Orders done in the SSPX, his own included, were schismatic acts.From the Code of Canon Law;
From the Code of Canon Law;No abjuration of schismatic acts required? This is jokerism and not Catholicism.Or did Bergoglio believe that the SSPX have supplied jurisdiction until now? Pope Joker.
Can. 1015 §1. Each person is to be ordained to the presbyterate or the diaconate by his proper bishop or with legitimate dimissorial letters from him.
Can. 1383 A bishop who, contrary to the prescript of ⇒ (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3O.HTM#4.1.0.6.1.0.1015) can. 1015, ordains without legitimate dimissorial letters someone who is not his subject is prohibited for a year from conferring the order. The person who has received the ordination, however, is ipso facto suspended from the order received.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM
For a long time there have been objections to the ordinations conducted by the SSPX bishops under the above reasons. The decree of the Holy Father does away with these objections. It gives the SSPX greater legitimacy.
No abjuration of schismatic acts required? This is jokerism and not Catholicism.Or did Bergoglio believe that the SSPX have supplied jurisdiction until now? Pope Joker.Do you intend to say that the SSPX are schismatic?
Do you intend to say that the SSPX are schismatic?If they previously claimed that they had supplied jurisdiction but now they have permission from what they claim is the true Church, then they are schismatic. What happened to that supplied jurisdiction. When, how and why did it fade away?. A true pope would severely punish them for such behavior.
What happened to that supplied jurisdiction. When, how and why did it fade away?
In this case why not?No, rather...so in this case, why?
If they previously claimed that they had supplied jurisdiction but now they have permission from what they claim is the true Church, then they are schismatic. What happened to that supplied jurisdiction. When, how and why did it fade away?. A true pope would severely punish them for such behavior.A Pope who is a real father is not about just issuing punishments and beatings. He is about what is best for all of his children.
A Pope who is a real father is not about just issuing punishments and beatings. He is about what is best for all of his children.What are you saying? Did the SSPX not consider the post conciliar popes to be like "bad dads"?.
A Pope who is a real father is not about just issuing punishments and beatings. He is about what is best for all of his children.Where is he - the one who's "about what is best for all his children"?
Wednesday, June 7, 2017
SSPX Ordinations Recognized as Licit and Valid by Rome (http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2017/06/sspx-ordinations-recognized-as-licit.html)
The Society was authorized to carry out priest ordinations without the consent of the local bishop. The consecration is therefore not only valid, but also allowed, says Bernhard Fellay, the superior of the FSSPX.
Vatican (kath.net/CWN/jg (http://kath.net/CWN/jg)) The Bishops of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X (FSSPX) may consecrate priests with the consent of the Vatican. This was announced in an interview by Bernard Fellay, the FSSPX Superior General.
He had received a letter from Rome last year. He had been told that his Society priests could be consecrated without the consent of the local bishop. The priestly ordinations of the Society were therefore not only valid, but also allowed, Fellay added.
This is another step in the approach between the Society and the Vatican, said the Superior General. Under Pope Benedict XVI And Pope Francis, relations have improved. Benedict XVI Lifted the excommunication of the Society in 2009. The confessions and nuptials of the FSSPX have been recognized under Pope Francis. In October 2016 Bernard Fellay was received at the Vatican.
Why would the new priests sign a docuмent that the rest of the community is unwilling to sign?
The new priests have undoubtedly signed the modernist "Profession of Faith" & "Oath of Fidelity to the Pope" (the non-negotiable "Doctrinal Preamble").